There's a song that's been on my mind
There's a love-hate relationship that most 80s fans have with Phil Collins. We love tunes like "In the Air Tonight." But we mock and curse the catchier popiness of the "Sussudio's" of his catalog.
For the record: "Sussudio" is worse than an earworm. It's like those dreaded eels in "Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan." It burrows a hole in my skull and forces me to do things against my will -- like go see "Steel Magnolias" -- until eventually insanity sets in and I end up using a phaser on myself deep beneath the surface of Ceti Alpha 5.
Collins is perhaps the reason iTunes and iPops were invented. He cranks out singles with the same ruthless efficiency that I wield sci-fi movie quotes. He's the reason "Greatest Of" albums were invented.
Still, Phil's not hurting for album sales. His highest selling disc of the 80s? "No Jacket Required," with 30-million albums sold worldwide (along with the requisite Grammy Award in 1986).
But is it his best album? That's what Times pop music Sean Daly and I will decide on this week's podcast.
Personally, I fear for my self-control and behavior during this week's show. While I tend to lean toward the New Romantic acts of the 80s -- we all know this much is true -- and the offbeat sounds of Aussie and West Coast sounds, Daly is a bona fide Collins junkie. He has "Don't Lose My Number" as his cell phone's ringtone.
So before we settle this once and for all, what's your opinion? Is "No Jacket Required" Phil's opus? Or maybe it's "Face Value." Drop us a comment and we'll share the best on the show.
Relive the music, movies and culture of the greatest decade ever with Times online editor Steve Spears. A teen during the decade, Steve is obsessed with everything from Duran Duran to Journey, John Hughes to John Cusack, and parachute pants to Reaganomics.
E-mail Steve Spears:
im my opinion, no jacket required is the better record. face value, and but seriously have some great tunes on them, but no jacket required is more consistent. in fact, i like every song on it. it has a really good flow. i might even say, the best songs on it, are not the hits. songs like, only you know and i know, i dont wanna know, who said i would, and inside out are all great songs. hello, i must be going is pretty good as well, but doesnt come close to the greatness of the other three 80s records by phil. plus, you have to admit, the video for dont lose my number is, dare i say, classic. sorry steve.
Posted by: CHAD | July 02, 2008 at 08:29 AM
Time for a review. I won't go off half-cocked on this opinion poll.
I owned "No Jacket Required" but I havent played it in a long time. Probably because it's a cassette and sitting in a box. Sitting in a cardboard box.
Posted by: Marissa | July 02, 2008 at 08:34 AM
Is it sitting in box?
Posted by: Spears | July 02, 2008 at 08:38 AM
it's sitting in a cardboard box.
Posted by: Marissa | July 02, 2008 at 08:41 AM
(Pulling out phaser...)
Posted by: Spears | July 02, 2008 at 08:47 AM
Face Value gets my vote. In The Air Tonight is still his most striking number, and I liked that he did a seldom-covered Beatles song (Tomorrow Never Knows).
To my ears, No Jacket Required was when he started getting cloying. One More Night is one of those tracks that gets an instant station change from me.
Posted by: GlennS. | July 02, 2008 at 08:47 AM
You've tried using a Q-tip, Steve? The extra long ones you see in the doctor's office?
Posted by: Marissa | July 02, 2008 at 08:50 AM
Hey Steve! I bet the song that shall not be mentioned but is suggested in this original post is no longer in your ear,huh?
Posted by: Marissa | July 02, 2008 at 08:52 AM
Phil's best album is "Hello, I Must Be Going." It was written while he was going through a divorce, so it's filled with angry, bitter songs like "I Don't Care Anymore," "It Don't Matter To Me" and "Do You Know, Do You Care?" It also features his cover of "You Can't Hurry Love," which holds up surprisingly well. As an added bonus, the album title is a Marx Brothers reference.
Posted by: Dominic | July 02, 2008 at 09:04 AM
I agree with Dominic, to whom I'm still apologizing for sticking him with a copy of the Flashdance DVD. ("How's the lobster?")
I'm addicted to "I Don't Care Anymore." Plus, angry and bitter is easier for me to relate to than whatever Phil is talking about in Sussudio.
Posted by: Spears | July 02, 2008 at 09:07 AM
Ah, that's the Spearsy we know and love.
I think we'll all find out one day that Phil wrote "Susudio" on a roll of toilet paper while uh, you know. Having some 'alone time' in the loo.
Posted by: Marissa | July 02, 2008 at 09:12 AM
Many moons ago when I was planning my wedding (spew), I asked my beloved, "what song would you like to be our first dance song?"
His Pink Floyd lovin' self replied, "Groovy Kind of Love" -- seriously. I shoulda known better.
Posted by: Marissa | July 02, 2008 at 09:29 AM
Ironically -- or serendipitously... you be the judge -- I heard "In the Air Tonight" on the way to take the Kiddo to school this morning. Despite the fact that it made me Pavolvian-crave a Michelob at 8:30 am, it still holds up pretty well. Probably my favorite Phil song.
That being said, I'm with Dominic on "Hello, I Must Be Going" being his best album. There's an obvious emotional depth to it that I like. Plus, I cannot resist a Marx Brothers reference and "You Can't Hurry Love" is a gem -- and I agree that it still sounds good today.
Posted by: jane | July 02, 2008 at 09:35 AM
i guess im not so surprised on the votes so far. i tend not to lean towards angry music. thats why the 90s music sucked. i like a happy little ditty. c'mon guys, life is hard enough already, i dont need anyone telling me in music. music for me, is something to escape into. now i dont mind an angry song here and there, but do i need a whole record of angry tunes. if i was depressed already, im sure not gonna feel any better after it. so sussudio isnt the best song of phils career, so what. its a happy little tune, with nonsensical lyrics. ever heard of i am the walrus. if i was mad at the whole world, would i rather listen to nirvana or phil collins. if i listened to nirvana, i might go postal somewhere, but if i listened to phil, i might whistle a tune or two, and get over it.
Posted by: CHAD | July 02, 2008 at 09:42 AM
seriously. I shoulda known better.
thanks marissa, now i have richard marx in my head. not a bad thing, just saying. by the way, marissa, that was funny as heck.
Posted by: CHAD | July 02, 2008 at 09:45 AM
I'm all about inflicting earworms today.
*shuffles off singing, "Can't Touch This"*
Posted by: Marissa | July 02, 2008 at 10:01 AM
I don't have my usual strong feelings on this topic, but put me in the "Hello, I Must Be Going" camp.
Riss, I thought I was taking my chances when I had the DJ play Social Distortion's "Ball & Chain" at our wedding reception. But imagine the huevos it would take to drop "Should've Known Better"!
Posted by: Jeff in Cuba | July 02, 2008 at 10:07 AM
As much as I do enjoy Phil Collins music, I have to say that none of it touches the greatness of the Genesis Invisible Touch album.
Jane, I'm sorry you EVER crave Michelob.
Wasn't it Ceti Alpha 6? I thought Ceti Alpha 5 blew up.
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 10:07 AM
John Hays! You'll take "Invisible Touch" over "Abacab"? Pshaw, my fine Gator pal. "Abacab" is sheer brilliance.
And I hate that I even thought about Michelob... damn song.
Posted by: jane | July 02, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Oh, Jeff. Trust me, after the nightmarish wedding day I had, it would have been so appropriate.
My motto for the reception, "My bottle! My bottle! Marissa needs another bottle!" Cheap champagne made it slightly bearable.
"Walk Like An Egyptian" played for what seemed hours as we all danced around like, what else. Egyptians.
Posted by: Marissa | July 02, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Abawhat? Never heard of it.
Invisible Touch is brilliant. I love Domino. Plus, it will always be a good memory, since my folks and I bought that and the Top Gun soundtrack on an outing when I was a kid. Good music. Good times.
Never owned a Phil Collins solo album, so I only know the singles.
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 10:15 AM
John Hays! My friend, you need to become acquainted with "Abacab" -- and I shall see what I can do about putting together an Imeem playlist for this very purpose. I listened to the album, on vinyl, ad nauseam in my dorm room at UF my freshman year. Good, good stuff.
Posted by: jane | July 02, 2008 at 10:18 AM
This is right up my alley. I am a big time Phil Collins fan. He was the first person I ever saw in concert (with Genesis, of course). I even saw Phil solo on the No Jacket Required tour. As for his albums, I'll take "Hello, I Must Be Going..." and "Face Value" over "No Jacket Required." I prefer his more jazz influenced stuff to his strictly commercial stuff. "Hello..." and "Face..." are more musically ambitious than "No Jacket...", and yes, they do have some anger. Both were, as pointed out, influenced by his first divorce. I'm not knocking "No Jacket..." because I do like it a lot, but it was far too MTV influenced and very much over played. The first two albums show Phil at his musical best.
Posted by: Bassnote | July 02, 2008 at 10:20 AM
I have a question. What's better? Phil Collins' best album, or Peter Gabriel's best album (whichever one that may be)?
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Oh, and thanks Jane, I was hoping you'd do that! I look forward to listening! ;)
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 10:23 AM
No comparison, Gabriel blows Phil out of the water. Gabriel's solo material is light years ahead of Phil's.
Posted by: Bassnote | July 02, 2008 at 10:25 AM
I think that's most likely true, although I also think Phil's is more commercial.
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 10:27 AM
I blame the Brit-flick "Buster'' for ear-worming "Groovy Kind of Love'' into my head. Still, I love that Collins-starring movie, even though its dialogue is bloody hard to understand unless you hail from a town that ends in -shire or -ham.
Posted by: Eric62 | July 02, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Phil Collins is the rear side of Genesis.Peter Gabriel is the guy that matters.
Posted by: Miguel | July 02, 2008 at 10:55 AM
I of course have to mention being the good Chicago person I am that "No Jacket Required" is a reference to when Phil Collins was denied entry in the Pump Room, a fancy restaurant in Chicago for not wearing the proper attire, which was of course a jacket. Completely off topic, my dad took my mom to the Pump Room for an anniversary in August of 1985 and they were sitting next to Michael J Fox who was in town filming the movie "The Light of Day". My dad still brings it up to this day. Getting back to Phil Collins, I was never a big fan. His music was always on the radio back in the 80's and I remember my friends and I said he music was just there, it wasn't bad but just didn't really make me want to go out and buy it.
Posted by: Neil | July 02, 2008 at 11:19 AM
I'm with Marissa, I guess. I really liked songs on both cassettes (ha!), but not enough to replace them with CDs.
There was little coherence to either one as albums. Still, the guy's got talent so I played them like crazy. But they're a blur. I can't tell one from the other.
What always left me scratching my head with Collins is the cover tunes. WHY?
So forget Nirvana, CHAD: "Groovy Kind of Love" makes me go postal. There's an unsolved murder in Chicago's northwest suburbs to this day thanks to that little ditty.
Posted by: Rick | July 02, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Didn't Prince sue Phil Collins for stealing his riff from "1999" for "Sussudio"? If not, he should have. Way to take a great song and make it horrible, Phil.
In my opinion, Phil hasn't released any good solo material other than "In the Air Tonight" which I especially like due to its inclusion in both Risky Business and the Miami Vice pilot.
Posted by: Big Tex | July 02, 2008 at 11:57 AM
Slam dunk, "No Jacket Required" is quintessential '80s listening. And those videos! "Take Me Home" is a very cool video, regardless of what you think of the Phil-ster. And Peter Gabriel sings background vocals on that track, by the way.
Posted by: David P | July 02, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Here's a little live Phil for you Steve.
http://www.imeem.com/people/Wj9eveh/music/JK9l3Kmf/phil_collins_people_get_ready_live/
Posted by: Bassnote | July 02, 2008 at 12:24 PM
It was bugging the crap outta me. Despite my archived cassettes,
I had to know which album was which so I went to iTunes...
Face value is the much better album. For one, it doesn't have "Sussudio" on it, and two, 'cuz I said so, that's why.
Posted by: Rick | July 02, 2008 at 12:42 PM
John! Here you go... Genesis "Abacab" on imeem. Totally worth at least a listen.
http://www.imeem.com/people/lsPVrnM/playlist/fSIGFjGw/abacabgenesis_music_playlist/
Posted by: jane | July 02, 2008 at 01:23 PM
Like Jeff I have no strong feelings here, not being much of a Phil Collins fan. But, since I like angry albums I would ahve to say "hello I must be going" as my fav.
Probably why I rank "The Road to Ensenada" higher than most others do on Lyle Lovett's discography and similarly enjoy: "Blood on the Tracks" "Here, My Dear" "Otis Blue" "Gentlemen" all great albums born from pain and anguish.
Posted by: DoctorDrew | July 02, 2008 at 01:24 PM
Listening now Jane, thanks!
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 01:27 PM
Jane - you are talking Phil Collins headlined Genesis right?
You can't really think Abacab is better than "Selling England by the Pound," can you? Or the "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" or "Foxtort" for that matter.
Posted by: DoctorDrew | July 02, 2008 at 02:31 PM
Duh. Probably should have clarified myself -- thanks DoctorDrew. Yes -- Phil Collins-headed Genesis is what I was referencing.
Posted by: jane | July 02, 2008 at 02:33 PM
Never heard of any of those albums. I've never listened to any Gabriel-led Genesis.
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 02:55 PM
Alright, some of the songs on Abacab are good, but Whodunnit is really annoying! Definitely sticking with Invisible Touch as the better album.
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 03:18 PM
Thanks Jane,
You had me worried - I knew your musical taste was better than that!
Posted by: DoctorDrew | July 02, 2008 at 03:28 PM
But then again Jane likes Sting and Kenny Rogers so you never know DoctorDrew.
Posted by: Miguel | July 02, 2008 at 03:57 PM
Don't make us come over there, Miguel...
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 04:06 PM
Miguel. Miguel. Miguel.
I'm hoping you can feel the glare I'm sending your way -- but I'm not holding it for too long, as it might cause wrinkles.
For the record, Sting, I tolerate. Stewart (Copeland) I lurve. And Kenny is a whole 'nother thing entirely.
PS: John, way to have my back, buddy. Thankyew muchly.
Posted by: jane | July 02, 2008 at 04:20 PM
Jane,
Is this true? Do you like that growl thing? You know that growl thing.
Posted by: DoctorDrew | July 02, 2008 at 04:36 PM
I missed your glare,Jane but i felt chilly from this wind coming inside my house.Don´t tell me it was you!
Posted by: Miguel | July 02, 2008 at 04:42 PM
Just for Miguel, since we all know he's really a closet Sting fan, I've made a Sting playlist!
http://www.imeem.com/people/ZxUOhcw/playlist/LTIKWvHx/sting_mix_music_playlist/
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 04:45 PM
For the record, Kenny Rogers has a place in my musical heart because his greatest hits album was what my first serious boyfriend and I listened to when we would go "park." My affection is more based on fond memories rather than the music itself -- although hearing "You Decorated My Life" makes me giggle.
And also for the record, I do like that growl thing. A lot, actually...
Posted by: jane | July 02, 2008 at 05:06 PM
I'm lost on the growl thing...is that Kenny?
Posted by: John Hays | July 02, 2008 at 05:07 PM
John
Kenny's voice has been described as having a growl texture to it.
The specific mention above are lyrics from "Love is Strange" a duet with Dolly Parton. The song is a remake of an old Sonny and Cher song i believe.
That's kind of sweet Jane about why Kenny has a special place for you. I felt 1/1000s of an inch of ice melt away from my heart.
Posted by: DoctorDrew | July 02, 2008 at 05:24 PM
Wow, DoctorDrew. Glad I could help with the thaw...
and "Love Is Strange" may have been done by Sonny & Cher -- I myself and more familiar with the Mickey & Sylvia version.
Posted by: jane | July 02, 2008 at 05:38 PM
Weird things happen when I'm at work. Sort of like coming home to things slightly askew and only the cats were home.
Posted by: Marissa | July 02, 2008 at 07:54 PM
Better late than never! Even though it has Sussido on it, I'm going to pick No Jacket Required. My all time favorite song by Phil is on here... "We said Hello Goodbye"..I'm thinking it wasn't a hit... but a great song nonetheless!
Posted by: Carla | July 02, 2008 at 09:53 PM
"We Said Hello, Goodbye" is a great song, but his first two albums are still more musically ambitious than "No Jacket Required."
Posted by: Bassnote | July 02, 2008 at 10:05 PM
For some reason I remember "We Said Hello, Goodbye" being played on the radio well after all other singles from "No Jacket Required" were played. Anyone else remember this?
"Hello, I Must Be Going!" has got it all, anger ("Do You Know, Do You Care"), sadness, ("Don't Let Him Steal Your Heart Away"), even an instrumental ("The West Side"). "No Jacket Required" is good, but not better than HIMBG.
Posted by: Jim | July 03, 2008 at 03:43 PM
I`m watching American Psycho,and they give the best use of 80s songs of any movie.Sussudio by Phil Collins is one of them,during a threesome,with Christian Bale always looking at himself in the mirror.Hip to be Square by Huey Lewis in a slaughter scene!
Posted by: Miguel | July 03, 2008 at 07:25 PM