Chamber official: Only a new stadium can keep Rays in St. Pete

ST. PETERSBURG — The leader of a group studying the Tampa Bay Rays' $450-million waterfront stadium proposal said Tuesday rejecting the plan may be the end of Major League Baseball in St. Petersburg.

Steve Raymund, co-chairman of the St. Petersburg Area Chamber of Commerce's baseball task force, said that if St. Petersburg won't build the Rays a new stadium, some other city will.

St. Petersburg's lease with the team, which will not expire until 2027, is unlikely to stop the Rays, Raymund said.

"The reality is that the Rays say they need a new stadium to remain viable, that it's critical to their organization," said Raymund, the former chief executive of Tech Data. "If it's not here, it'll be somewhere else."

More here.

Comments

[Rick K]

I don't think there are many people who doubt that the Rays will leave prior to 2027 if they don't get a new stadium.

The bulk of the vocal "NoNo" group on these threads are okay with that.

The reason I love these paired redevelopment proposals is because they give us the extremely rare opportunity to make a public investment in a pro sports venue AT THE SAME TIME we get to redevelop a large chunk of downtown.

The redevelopment of the Trop site will be awesome for this City / County / Region.

Many of the NoNo's don't want to see more people downtown. Which is their right.

I am one of those who think it will make St. Pete an even greater city.

[Ray F]

Finally,

Somebody just coming out and telling the truth. Of course the Rays won't say that. They are giving St Pete the opportunity to do the right thing. The City Council know what's on the line. Unfortunately, people who have full time jobs can't take off work every week to go to 2:00 council meetings and complain. I'll be at Thursday's meeting because they are having it at 6.

My only suggestion for the Rays would be for them to change their name to the St Petersburg Rays.

[Gene & Patty]

Rick K. & Ray F. we already know your pro stance, you do not need to keep blogging 20 times a day. You two must work for old Stu boy. Obviously, you two don't get it. The Rays serve a small percentage of people in this County, not the majority. Why should we kneel down to threats from an owner who wasn't even living here 2 years ago? Furthermore, the Trop is a nice place, and they have a lease. They need to honor that lease, just like any respectable tenant would do. If the Trop was so bad, why wasn't this ever brought up before? All of a sudden Mr. Stu has weird ideas. If he moves the team, I say go...bye, bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out. And like it or not, Ray F. & Rick K. thats how many, many, people feel in this County. You are exceptions.

[Rick K]

Gene & Patty:

How do you know what percentage of people in the City / County agree with you?

[Ray F]

Rick,

Go over to Heatcheck Wednesday: Week 4...

Gene and Patty actually asked the blog host to prevent us from being on here.

Typical... "agree with me or don't talk at all."

[Thomas]

And there it is... the threat!

"If you don't build it, we're leaving!"

Interesting that the team didn't have the guts to say it themselves but instead sent out a few patsies to make their idle threat.

Well, ok - let's humor this threat for a moment: Where you going to go?? Hmmm? Really - where exactly are the Rays going to go? Which community is it that the Rays think will build them a new stadium. I'd love to hear the list of possibilities.

[Colorado Snowbird]

There are plenty of cities who would build the Rays a new stadium, starting with Tampa, which has a separate government entity whose job is to attract and promote sports dollars by spending public monies.

Are you doubting that other cities would want the team, or just trying to kick up smoke?

[Gene & Patty]

Rick K....how do I know that many, many are against this idea of a stadium, because I am out in the real working world, meeting clients, talking to people, I see and hear whats happening. Not like some of you who are sitting behind your computer all day and blogging. Are you out in the real world, seeing and hearing? You'll have to excuse me now, I have real work to do.

[St Pete Rays @ Tech Data Field]

Mr Raymund, Raymond James (I know that's not you) saw value in signing a 13 year contract worth $35mil for the naming rights to the Bucs stadium in 1998. Will Tech Data or Jabil step up and commit to a similar contract? If either would commit to this and those funds were used to pay for the ballpark, the Rays would then have an additional $35mill or $70mil over 26 years, in private funds to invest in the ballpark.

I want the waterfront ballpark built. I am Ok with the city helping with the development. I would like to see more of the investment coming from the Rays and private capital, though.

Let's get the ballpark built in a fiscally responsible manner.

[Thomas]

"There are plenty of cities who would build the Rays a new stadium, starting with Tampa"

Not feasible. Tampa is bonded out between the St.Pete Times Forum and Raymond James.

There's nothing left in the till for another stadium, and they have no land to redevelop and give the proceeds to the team.

---------------------------------------

"Are you doubting that other cities would want the team, or just trying to kick up smoke?"

No, I'm asking a very serious question. It's a basic threat analysis. It's what logical people do when presented with a ultimatum like this.

Where exactly are the Rays going to go? Specifically, where is it actually possible.

Your first reply was not very astute. Would you like to try again?

[Rick K]

Thomas, again, has no idea what he is talking about.

Tampa / Hillsborough county has plenty of room (fourteen suitable sites in the County, already identified by the staff of Tampa Sports Authority)

The TSA has the ability to borrow / bond / gaurantee roughly another billion and a half, if you do the math using their latest published accounting.

Additionally, there is a major global company located in Orlando, which is VERY interested in landing a Major League franchise.

The staff of Major League Baseball has a study that was performed when they awarded St. Pete the Rays franchise, and they pay money every 3 years to have the study updated.

Additionally, MLB has 41 offers which they rank as "reasonably sound" proposals from cities/regions seeking a big league team.

I have NO idea what Thomas does for a living, but he'd do better to stop masquerading as someone who is knowledgeable about locational economics of Major League Baseball.

[Thomas]

Rick,

I think that this logical question frightens you and that's why you prefer a personal attack rather than a legitimate answer.

- Orlando just passed a $1.1B venues package. There is nothing left there in public financing for the Rays.

Are you trying to insinuate that the "major global company" is Disney and that they would be interested in an MLB team?

And they would pay the entire bill for the team and the stadium?

I guess you feel selling the Angels was a sure sign that Disney was interested in the business of baseball.

- The TSA is up to their eye balls in debt. In fiscal years 2003 and 2004, the county was required to cover two-thirds of an operating shortfall in the TSA’s budget in fiscal 2004. The county will continue to be required to fund two-thirds of any operating shortfall in the TSA’s budget. It was so bad that that county now must approve the TSA’s annual budget.
The TSA will not be doing any more borrowing for quite a while.

- "MLB has 41 offers which they rank as "reasonably sound" proposals from cities/regions seeking a big league team"

Are you trying to say that MLB would have an unbiased and critical assessment to offer?

Or are you trying to say that MLB has a list of 41 idle threats that upon any type of scrutiny are completely unfeasible?

So far the suggestions have been:
1) Tampa - Not feasible
2) Orlando - Not feasible

What's next?

[H.L.Menchen]

The Rays have no sentiment for St. Petersburg. The Rays are run by their multi millionaire carpetbagger owners who are simply enhancing their investment for an inevitable sale sooner or later. The new stadium will bump up the price by a couple or three hundred million whereas they sale and flee with the profits and leave us with the white sail behemoth on our once proud waterfront. St. Pete will never support MLB to the extent they demand.

[Bubba, Pinellas Park]

So now, what we all knew, finally came out. Stu Slyberg will threaten us with moving the team if he doesn't get his new stadium. If you think that is going to win the hearts and minds over in Pinellas County, your sadly mistaken. Maybe what I need to do is take you behind the woodshed, and teach you that your New York City attitude needs to stay in New York City, or you can go back where you came from.

[Thomas]

They can threaten all they want. They have no viable relocation options.

It's like a mugger making a gun shape with his index finger and thumb under his jacket.

"Gimme your wallet or I'll shot!!!"

There is no gun and there is no viable option for the Rays.

If they want to sit down with all the details and negotiate a deal, I think the community would be all for it.

But so far, the team has given a needlessly rushed time line, a PowerPoint presentation in lieu of actual details, and now they're making idle threats.

The City Council should step up and kill this proposal.

Tell the Rays to come back when they're ready to actually negotiate in good faith.

[Rick K]

Thomas has NO idea what he is talking about.

Why that doesn't stop him from trying to pretend is beyond me.

What do you do for a living Thomas? You're a telemarketer, perhaps?

[Rick K]

Thomas,

Please cite your source for your factual claims, or acknowledge that you made them up.

I am certain that I could get financing for an MLB venue just about anywhere. But that assertion is based upon my own knowledge of markets and my personal experience.

Upon what are your assertions based?

(By the way, I have a bet that you will NOT answer this question)

[Thomas]

Rick,

You can attempt to slander me all you want. It's much more an indictment of your character than it is mine.

The fact is the Rays have no viable relocation options.

I don't understand why this upsets you. It should make you happy. The team is not going anywhere.

You have nothing to fear but fear itself Rick. So, don't let the Rays unloaded gun frighten you.

[A real city supporter]

Rick K. = Ray F. = Gary Grooms

OK!

[Ray F]

Gary Grooms???

[Rick K]

Thomas,

Gracias for helping me win the bet. I will enjoy my night at the ball park which I will consider a "contribution" from you.

Thanks!

[Rick K]

Ray, even though I have offered the veiled one $1000 if he is right, he cowers.

[Thomas]

Rick,

I find it comical that you would demand a source for my factual claims, however, your assertions should be universally accepted merely because they are based upon you "knowledge of markets and personal experience."

I find it even more amusing that you picture yourself to be a powerful or intimidating force that is so menacing that you would wager that I would not answer a question.

I didn't make any assertions, I referenced documented and verifiable information.

Do you really need sources to confirm that Orlando is tapped out of public financing after the $1.1B venues program.
Do you want links to confirm that Disney no longer was interested in baseball and sold their team.
Do you need a report of the TSA's financial condition.

So, which market is it that you are so certain that you could get funding for an MLB stadium in.
Let's see how accurate your "knowledge of markets and personal experience" really is.

[Thomas]

"Gracias for helping me win the bet. I will enjoy my night at the ball park which I will consider a "contribution" from you."

Um, Rick, you jumped the gun on that one.

My post at 3.20p was in response to your amateurish "telemarketing" slander.

I'm not intimidated by you or your questions. Nor do I have any problem answering them.

[Rick K]

Thomas,

If I am reading your last post correctly (and I am quite sure I am),

you refuse to provide us the source for your factual assertions?

Bravo!

[Thomas]

Perhaps some remedial reading comprehension is in order.

I didnt refuse anything. I asked which market / sources did you want to address?

I'm surprised that you would need sources for Orlando's recent Venues Project.

I'm equally surprised that you would need sources to show Disney sold the Angels.

These are very commonly known facts.

It would be an indication that you are not very sharp if you needed a list of sources for those items.

[Thomas]

If you want the TSA's condition, you can find it in the FitchRatings Public Finance for Hillsborough County, FL Tax Supported Issues report.

[Rick K]

Thomas:

Again, where is your FACTUAL support for your assertion of FACTUAL claims that it would be impossible for Dinsey to move the Rays to Orlando?

And where is your FACTUAL claim that it would be impossible for the TSA to move the Rays to Hillsborough county sometime between now and 2027?

You DON"T HAVE ONE.

Because these are not facts.

They are your opinions.

It does not help your cause to act like a little kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, who, upon looking up and seeing his parents staring at him, lamely attempts to hide the cookie behind his back.

Thomas, you are not an economist. Your understanding of economics, as evindenced by your posts here, is weak.

It is not a FACT that the Rays could not move to Hillsborough or Orlando sometime in the next 20 years.

Can't you be a grown up and admit that your over-reached?

[Don Mott]

Orlando couldn't even pull in 10,000 for the games recently played there. The Rays have stated they most likely will discontinue their yearly expedition there due to lack of interest from the public, meaning fans they don't have. Move to another city? Adios, Adieu and Goodbye. Let some other saps pay their bills. The city will do just fine without the Rays. In fact they will benefit by being able to redevelop the Trop site and reap all of the profits instead of using the money to enrich some multimillionaires.

[Thomas]

Rick,

You can't come up with a feasible market for the Rays to move to - as they are threatening now, in 2008.
So instead of calling it what it is, an idle threat - you are still trying to attack me for pointing it out.

Mostly likely you view the threat of relocation as the best chance for this proposal to be passed. So discrediting that threat for the nonsense that it is hurts your cause.

You're not really interested in facts, you're interested in minimizing the damage to your support of this plan.

Where are your "factual" sources for this claim: "Additionally, there is a major global company located in Orlando, which is VERY interested in landing a Major League franchise. - Posted by: Rick K | May 21, 2008 at 01:17 PM "

Did you have any source for that, or are you going to acknowledge that you just made it up?

[Rick K]

Thomas, I am almost there....

We modified our bet to the following, "He won't provide factual backup for his assertions of fact, by 5 pm today."

At this point, I don't care if you do have factual backup, I am thrilled that you refuse to back up what you said.

I am going to have a fun time because of you.

[gary grooms]

I haven't posted much lately because Rick K is doing a great job and he must type faster than me. I do not think I know Rick - but I do think he should try and speak tomorrow at City Council. I can't prove that Rick K is not an alias for me - but Aaron can if he so desires by verifying the IP addresses.

[Thomas]

Rick,

Any logical person would conclude that Disney owned a team and sold it (along with all other media corporations that tried and failed at sports ownership)

From the NY Times:
"While Disney can wave the Angels' first World Series flag, it has lost $100 million during its ownership. It also discovered that owning sports teams (its Anaheim Mighty Ducks team is also for sale) did not lead to synergies with its movies, TV programs, networks like ESPN and theme parks.

Two other major media corporations are also selling their sports assets. Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation, which prefers owning DirecTV to the Los Angeles Dodgers, is selling the team, which it acquired for $311 million in 1998, along with Dodger Stadium and other assets. AOL Time Warner, with its large debt, is selling the Atlanta Braves, the N.B.A.'s Hawks and the N.H.L.'s Thrashers."

You, on the other hand, just made up the fact that Disney was "very" interested in a team. You cannot offer any factual support of your ridiculous claim.

Sorry that you lost your bet. Maybe next time...

[A real city supporter]

If the Rays want to continue playing in the Trop. Fine.

If the Rays want to leave at the end of their contract. Fine.

If the Rays want to buy out the remainder of their contract and leave. Fine.

But please, let them take Rick K. and or Gary Grooms with them.

No NEW Waterfront Stadium.

[Rick K]

I am looking forward to Friday....

Thanks to Thomas, my date and I are going to enjoy an evening in downtown St. Pete... dinner and drinks before the game.... then attendance at the Rays game... then post game beers at a few downtown pubs....

Very sweet of you Thomas.

By the way, not only did the guy I bet know that you didn't come up with any proof for your factual assertion that the Rays cannot move to Tampa or Orlando in the next 20 years, but actually NO ONE was fooled.

Your posts in this vein (the ones where you pretend to be an economist or to have financing expertise) are both hilarious and pathetic.

But I thank you.

~ Sincerely,

RICK K.