Financing details on Thursday

The Rays will reveal details of what they call "the preliminary financing plan'' for their proposed waterfront stadium at noon Thursday at Tropicana Field. The sesssion will be open to the public.
St. Petersburg and Pinellas County elected officials are expected to attend and get the details at the same time.
"We are eager to make public our plan to finance the new ballpark and begin the public discourse about it,'' Rays president Matt Silverman said in a statement. "As we have maintained since proposing the new ballpark and redevelopment of Tropicana Field last October, the plan will not require any new taxes. In fact, the plan should create new public funds in excess of those requested for the ballpark - dollars which can be used to help fund city and county services as well as Pinellas schools.''
Entry to the Trop on Thursday will be through Gate 4 on the 16th Street side of the stadium. Gametime that day is 4:20 p.m.
- Marc Topkin

Comments

[dave]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Davis_Cup

Not that Wikipedia should be trusted. For instance, their article on the Trop says "the city spent millions of dollars" in environmental site remediation and links to a Times article discussing the projected and estimated cost, not what was actually paid...

[mrclean]

Thanks I forgot about that. I think I was thinking of the Stanley Cup.

[dave]

Joel, in your missive, you mention that a bar had to close "in large part because we don't have spring training any more." What are you referring to? The Rays played a bunch of games at Al Lang this past March.

BTW, there is an approximate 50 year history of ST at Al Lang, and 90 in the city at large.

[The Unsilent Minority]

no, no, no ... we need to wait on this for at least 15-20 yrs before we, the few loud mouths who are all for the status quo, give you our blessing and allow you an opportunity to speak (since it's probably against what WE want) your mind! We are deathly afraid that you people, who aren't as smart as us, will be swayed by the carpetbaggers who are out to destroy our city and send more jobs to China!!!

John McPhailure
not-so-smart
Judy-Too-Stupid-2-B-Breathing
and the rest of the backward "thinking" minions

[mrclean]

Does re-development of the Trop mean that the south side StPete will be gentrified?

[Jon McPhee]

"Unsilent," who wants to shut who up? Who's afraid of a full public airing of all the ups and downs of this thing? Who's afraid to identify themselves, using anonymity as cover for pitching snotball ad hominem epithets in lieu of reasoned debate? Who's showing the kind of snotty hatred and hypocrisy that they accuse others of? Who's wanting to shut down public debate so they can "have what I want when I want it?" Methinks thoud dost protest too much.

Bumper Sticker:

"Oh heck, let's just kill each other and let our Gods sort it out."

[Rick K]

Jon McPhee....

To answer your direct and important question about who wants to shut who up.....

After reading all the posts in this section of the Times Blog, it is obvious.

Your "side: wants there to be no vote.

They offer many different reasons, but the bottom line is that they do not want the people of St. Pete to vote.

In fact, when I read through the posts by all the various "anti" posters, I am reminded of all the silly "anti" arguments I have studied over the years....

I once lived in a town with a shuttered military base. Government and private developers proposed redeveloping the property and the anti-crowd through everything imaginable at the idea. The voters approved the redevelopment plan and virtually everything the anti's had predicted failed to unfold. Except that, well, the project was a huge success. There were more than a few anti's who feared the success of the project as much as anything else. I can't help but feel the same way in this case.

I once read a terrific book that recounted the history of the development of the Interstate highway system in the U.S. Many of the "anti" crowd offered some of the very same arguments that the anti's continue to offer today. A fair description of their efforts would be that they tried anything and everything to scare, intimidate, and fool people away from supporting the proposed new highways.

Last night, a friend of mine who does not live here and who knows nothing about the issues, accepted my invitation (from her campus office in the midwest, where she is a communications professor) to read these various threads about these twin redevelopment proposals. I doubt anyone would be surprised to hear here assessment. The anti's are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at this proposal. They don't seem to care about facts or honest debate. Instead, they attack any proponent of letting the people decide as being a "paid shill" for the Rays.

In short, the anti's do not want the people to decide. They want to decide for us.

[rayray]

Let Us Vote,,, Build it, build it, Build it!

Go Rays!

[Paul]

Anyone got the list of 100 businesses I should know not to visit in St Pete? Seems this may be a farce, as is most of the pro stadium propaganda. I'm beginning to think there are not 100 businesses supporting the stadium at all. More like a handful. Prove me wrong. I'm kinda smart, and can't find the list on the web.

[Chris Jenkins]

Rick K, you, and your friend, seem to have not done a very good job of analyzing these threads.

1. Ad hominems and pithy attacks are overwhelmingly leveled by people in FAVOR of the new stadium plan, AGAINST those of us who had legitimate and reasoned concerns.

2. The majority of us voicing those concerns use our real names, and have made our valid concerns clearly stated over and over.

3. Anonymous and pseudonymous pro-stadium voices have used endless ad hominem and imposterization to mischaracterize our positions and motivations.

I don't know what blogs you and your friend were reading, and I will have to operate on the assumption of your sincerity, but I invite you to go back through and provide me with links to posts which you think justify your analysis. For purposes of a wager, for every "anti-stadium" post you think fits your profile, I'll provide you FIVE pro-stadium posts which fit my description. Winner buys the first round at Mastry's?

Additionally, anyone who would like to have a public, casual round table discussion on the topic can email me at cjenkins@flmediasolutions.com. I know there have been a few folks who popped around the idea of sitting down over a few beers and talking about these things in person, where we can see we're all just normal folks, and not "pros" or "antis" in real life, just people with concerns.

I don't like the way this deal smells. Although I've spelled out why over and over again, I'll do it again here, since you seem to be a late comer to the conversation.

1. The idea was hidden until after the general election. That was a political move designed to prevent the local political players in the deal from being tossed out over concerns about the deal. That's a bit dirty.

2. One guy says the Trop sucks, the next guy says the Trop is fine. Last year, Rick Baker had a letter published in the times describing how awesome the Trop is, called it one of the best venues in the country, and made a clear and impassioned statement that there was at least another good 10-20 years over service left in it before we would need to address venue concerns. That's not just anybody, and not just a "Trop's Fine!". It went point by point about how the Trop is not just fine, but Great! If you and your friend had read through these blogs, you would have already come across that. As I said, I invite you to go back through and spend a little more time.

3. The cost projections are all completely pie in the sky, because the data is simply not available to determine what those costs will be. No environmental impact study has been done by the appropriate agencies. Preliminary studies suggest there will be a need for environmental mitigation, which can be notoriously expensive. No one has addressed concerns that there are potentially more hazardous materials that will need to be removed from the Trop site for redevelopment to occur. The cost of that has not been factored in. Who is being knee jerk here when it comes to questioning what the cost will really be? CONA nailed it on the head in their positional statement on why they recommended against the new deal. I urge you to read it.

4. Come downtown on the next big function there...4th of July should do quite nicely. Find a parking spot close to the water in the early evening, and hang out til about 9 or so to watch the fireworks, and then take the short walk to your car, followed by the smooth ride out of the area. Meet me on July 5th, and we can laugh about the phrases "parking spot close", "short walk", and "smooth ride". As someone who's on the water every year for the fireworks, I can tell you now, we know the drill. Show up many hours early, and you might get parking within a few blocks. Otherwise, park at the Globe, and just plan to walk the mile and a half to get there. Then, sit for 45 minutes in the locked up downtown traffic waiting to get out. Anyone who tries to deny this can add their name to the list of people willing to join me for July 4th, and we can all put our money where our mouths are.

There you go, Rick. No name calling, no pie in the sky, nothing but facts and opinions, clearly stated. I don't mind the issue going to a vote, either, although you will most definitely find a red sign in my yard. All I want is what any municipal and county citizen should want...clear, contractually bound guarantees of protection, a slow down on the blowing of smoke our rears (i.e. projections about "additional tax revenues" based on formulas that proved wildly over optimistic the first time around, you know, when they built the Trop?), and some accountability by local politicians and business owners for the portions of MY tax dollars they are putting at risk in this venture.

If THAT request sounds inflammatory, knee jerk, reactionary, and two dimensional to you, then I'll be doubting your sincerity, and succumbing to the desire to fulfill your characterization earlier by mentally relegating you to paid Ray's shill. Hopefully, it won't come to that... ;)

[get-smart]

Mr . Jenkins you are the Super Blogger .. The Bloggers Blogger. You are very logical and to the point. You lay out the argument item for item. You must realize and I know you do, that the pro stadium blogger is a paid shill. They will not respond to you in any coherent way.

It is the owners of the Rays that are driving this nightmare. They are un-American, treasonous cretins. Just Google "goldman sachs treason." The whole point of a Waterfront Stadium is pure GREED and EGO. They are pumping up the value to dump it and then brag to their cohorts how smart they are. That is it! Nothing more! The owners don't care about our country or St. Pete. They are cut from the same cloth as the criminal ex-governor of New York. Go Rays!

[Don Mott]

Well said Chris, There are many financial questions that, as of yet have not been addressed. Hopefully they will be addressed tomorrow. The costs of relocating Bayshore into the Bay to my knowledge have not been mentioned and probably can't be. There have been no environmental or construction bids processed. Will this be the cities responsibility? It certainly isn't included in the $450 million. Then there's that pesky little deed restriction issue that the Rays conveniently said could be worked around. At what cost? There's the issue of the proposed office/parking garage at the Mahaffey which the city has recommended against. Once again the Rays say no problem we'll just move it. At what cost and who will pay for the additional property? There is that little issue of "no new taxes", yet they want to use taxes from the redevelopment of the Trop site. Are those not new taxes? By the way the money they are counting on is estimated by the developers who have secured no tenants. That is pie in the sky! Who makes up for the losses if those projected revenues are not met? I could go on but I think that will suffice for now. Any comment or spin to add Rick K?

[Don Mott]

By the way Rick K as Chris mentioned a lot of us use our real names. Care to tell us what your real name is?