First poll is closed; waterfront concerns dominate

After 884 votes from across the country, and the world, our first poll is closed. Don't bother trying to add the numbers up to 100 percent. Because people could list up to two concerns, the numbers do not add up.

The results:
41.2 percent of people are most concerned about the waterfront location of the proposed ballpark.
26.1 percent of people are concerned about the cost to taxpayers.
24 percent list no concerns.

Instant analysis: Waterfront location concerns cannot make the Rays happy, since it seems difficult the team can win those people over. All the other potential concerns can be "fixed" to one degree or another. An aversion to building on the waterfront cannot.

Coming later today: Poll number 2.

Comments

[get-smart]

To Be the Tenant

Once upon a time in a land called Floorider there was an accountant named Ray. His accounting skills were so-so. He
rented the house, from which he lived and worked, from a man called Pete. Many in the town though Pete was a saint.

Some people would use Ray's accounting services.

Recently though, Ray had a hard time paying the rent to Pete. Ray owed, Pete back rent. Not good. Ray and Pete were some what chummy. On occasion they would go to the Trop and get corn dogs.

One day Pete went to see Ray about the rent. When asked about the rent, Ray said, "You know Pete I want to pay you the back rent but it seems like this house that I'm renting from you is holding me back from getting the best clients. When my clients visit me they seem disappointed in it's appearance and location.

Listen Pete, I know you own a piece of vacant land on the water. The way I figure it, is if we build a beautiful waterfront mansion for me to live in, we could demolish this old derelict of a house and build a new 'Electronic Toy Outlet Center.' Everyone from near and far would be buying Hi Def TV's, Computers, Cell Phones and everything electronic from you. The good news is, you can use the profits from all the electronic sales to pay for the mansion that I will be living in."

Pete said, "I'm no saint, but let me think about it. I hope you are not trying to sting me Ray!"

[Jay]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I noticed that there's no mention of a mass transportation option. That goes hand in hand with parking spaces, environmental concerns, ballpark design, and the overall cost to taxpayers.

I'm simply not satisfied that the existing infrastructure can efficiently support such plans.

[Jay]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I noticed that there's no mention of a mass transportation option. That goes hand in hand with parking spaces, environmental concerns, ballpark design, and the overall cost to taxpayers.

I'm simply not satisfied that the existing infrastructure can efficiently support such plans.

[Java]

Aaron, its pretty unfiar to put "building a new stadium without paying off the debt on the old stadium" as a choice here. The Rays haven' tsubmitted a financing proposal yet, so for all we know the Rays proposal could in fact include paying off the old debt.

[Chris Jenkins]

And for all we know, there could be no environmental concern whatsoever! We don't know because there hasn't been an environmental impact report.

However, the poll is asking what people's concerns are, and that's one of them. Not really complicated.

[Tony]

Here are my comments: The Rays can't continue playing in the Trop. It's old, it's antiquated, and it will eventually have to make way for another facilty. The Rays are trying to make an honest effort to keep the team in the city. If the Rays stay on their winning ways there will probably be many other local locations and other out of the state cities that woule love to have the Rays. Suffice to the St Pete area would miss out on alot of money. If that happens they are stuck with the Trop, which would have to be torn down anyway. The new stadium would keep the team here. Would keep the jobs here. Would bring in more events. Whose to say you couldn't have outdoor concerts in the stadium with a backdrop of the water. Businesses would flourish and more would come. Could it be a rocky road at first? Sure, but what city with a new stadium DIDN'T have a rocky beginning. I'm sure there were initial logistical problems, but the end product would justify the means. The bottom line is that you can't satisfy everyone, but this stadium will benefit most of the citizens of this city. People say they don't want the citizens of St Pete to pay any money for it. That's all well and good, but are you willing to let the county negotiate for a percentage of the revenue that the games would bring in? Are you willing to lose parking fee percentages, possibly ticket fees, concession profits, and any other profits that can be negotiated to BENEFIT the city and not the county. St Pete has to seriously look at what they may be turning down.

[Nick]

Aaron,

Is there any reason that your poll adds up to 123.6% of voters. I'm sure it's just a typo somewhere in the coding or a bunch of illegals that aren't St. Pete voters. Either way when it hits the fan everyone seems to come out of the wood work which appears to be the issue here. Thanks again for listening.

Nick

[Kyle]

Come on Nick. You are a honors student remember. The poll (or like you say "POLE"), says "which one or two...".
This means that the idiots who were voting could actually read and follow directions. This would change the results and is actually an invalid poll. If everyone had to pick one or pick two then it is valid. Some may have picked only one while others picked two. Now go change the batteries in your TI-92 Graphing Calculator.

[SP Downtown]

Has the St. Pete Times just given up on being a real newspaper? "We at Ballpark Frankness are doing a fun and nifty poll..." Are you kidding me?!

How about spending a little more time actually doing your job so you could write stories with a little more depth, detail and accuracy? The reporting on this issue has been woefully inadequate. Plenty of quantity, zero quality. This plan could be the best thing to happen to St. Pete in decades. It could finally fix the eyesore of a stadium the City built. Could bring tons of jobs, economic growth, tourism...the benefits are legion.

But does the Times write about that? Nope, they cover the horserace between POWW (aka a few rich old people who live at One Beach Drive) and the team, and put up "unscientific but fun and nifty polls." Perhaps Sharockman and his editors need some continuing education at the Poynter Institute.

[Richard Casey]

As a FORMER president of Gary Shelton's Fan Club,was I disappointed with the May 1st column comparing success on the field by the Rays, to construction of a new stadium.
As a veteran SPORTS columnist for the St Pete Times how in the world can he be on the fence about construction of a new stadium. This column was in the same edition as the story of securing an NCAA St Petersburg Bowl Game, another Chamber of Commerce exposure for St Petersburg.
Question: Where would this game be played after 2012? Answer: In one of the most beautiful,exciting and dynamic stadiums in the world. A signature for St Petersburg to be seen by millions.

AND I'M ON THE FENCE I NEED MORE INFORMATION???
I do understand some tough negotiations will be in the future between the Rays, the City and County Councils, and the contractors and developer, however, to say that " I'm on the fence until I receive more information is very disappointing.

[Chris Jenkins]

Richard, have you considered that maybe, just maybe, there might be some legitimate questions and concerns regarding the deal, not regarding a new stadium?

There have been alternatives offered. Toytown and Derby Lane are both excellent options.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If I were to sit down with the principals, and be able to address my questions with them, and they were able to provide me with some rock solid answers to my questions, protecting the citizenry here from additional tax liability, addressing the environmental and logistical issues, and equitably covering the outstanding debt they already carry, I'd be more than willing to be just as vociferous a supporter of a new stadium as I have been a detractor. Instead, my concerns are dismissed as inconsequential, and I'm branded as a member of one of two fringe elements that all new stadium detractors are branded as: stoner hippie tree hugger, or snooty rich condo dweller. The fact is, I'm neither, and the additional fact is, my concerns have not been addressed in any real way.

As long as the attack tactics, impersonations, ad hominem attacks, and dogmatic ideologies prevail, a real conversation will not occur, and no one will be paying attention to addressing the root concerns that every resident of this county should be focused on.

[lb]

To all of you who think that a stadium automatically confers benefits to businesses in the district, take a walk along the area surrounding the Trop--the only sports related business to be seen is Ferg's. Next read the myriad studies that have shown over and over and over again that the promise of economic development surrounding sports teams is bogus. Cultural attractions have far, far deeper and longer lasting benefits, as well as drawing many more visitors to their cities. I'm all for a strong tax base and new jobs, but more high-end housing and low-paying retail jobs are not the answer for St. Pete, nor is mortgaging our future.

[Chuck]

Richard,

I thought the Shelton column was pretty fair. It was mostly a rebuttal to people who think the Rays need to produce a winning product on the field before building a new stadium - as he said the two should not be related.

Deep down I think we all know how Shelton feels about the proposal.

[Chuck]

Aaron,

Any possible way to show how many unique IPs have voted in the poll?

[Aaron Sharockman]

Chuck: My understanding is the program allows only one vote per IP address. I may be wrong, but I'll see if I can find out.

So far, we've had 176 votes cast, from all over the country. One vote came all the way from Bristol, England. Thank you Bristol...(Bristol by the way has no concerns).

Hopefully at the end of this experiment, I'll be able to post a report on who voted how. This poll software is still new to me though, so maybe I won't be able to.

Question to the audience: Has anyone out there been able to cast more than one set of votes?

[Native]

why do people keep suggesting the former dump site with over a decade worth of garbage and derby lane that currently houses dog racing, cards and soon to be more vegas style casino games. These are not viable options. It is the Al Lang site or nothing. Put it to a city wide vote!

[Chris Jenkins]

Aaron, it lets me change my vote, but not vote twice.

[Thor]

Ha Ha Ha, Thor here, hello Chris, Hi Justin, good afternoon Ms Ford (how was your temper tantrum today stomp stomp I wanna be mayor wha wha, good afternoon Hal, peace love and rock and roll, puff puff. Hey rather dis heartening for all of you isn't it. Aaron cute little poll, Thor is sure you poop geeks have been calling and trying to get everyone on your poll, and look even though aaron has six anti-stadium questions and only one pro stadium question, the no concerns is almost 50%. Thor wonders what the mix would be if the poll was just "I have a concern, or I don't have a concern, what would the mix be then? Hey aaron, didn't they teach you that in newspaper school? Thor wonders. Aaron, what about the Times' famous truth o meter. Who tells the truth, poop or the Rays, Thor knows, so do you Aaron. Wanna play. Hey Justin, just seething aren't you, don't worry its the weekend and you have a lot of fluid in your lighter. Hey Chris Jenkins, look for more truth from Thor in additional postings on this silly little site soon. Thor has spoken, Thor is wise, Thor is brave, Thor is relaxed

[get-smart]

According to the poll "No Concerns" wins. I guess most people want to build it except a few weirdos. So build it. Why should I care.

[Willie Doyle]

Based on the Rays figures of an average attendance of 17,000 at a game, even if every fan in the seats came from St. Pete (which, of course, they don't) you would have a tiny percentage of the taxpayers enjoying the money spent by all 250,000 residents of our fair city. Do you really think it fair that so many should pay for the enjoyment of so few?
And yes they will pay. The taxes from the redevelopment of the Trop will mostly go for a new stadium for a bunch of New Yorkers who are NOT citizens of St. Pete. That money could be spent on things needed by all the citizens, not just the few: health care, contracts for firefighters and police, libraries, judicial costs. o new taxes, the Rays say. Well, when the above things - that are being cut - cannot be paid for you'd better believe our taxes will be cut.

And, the mayor wants to cut 13 million from the budget and then give the Rays a piece of land worth 50-100 million on the citizens waterfront? It just does not make sense. And it does not seem fair to the people.

[Paul]

Thor, glad to see you're finally relaxed. Looks like you took my advice and made that little drive over to the movie rental place on Gandy. Told you that would relax you... don't watch those DVD's on the big screen though, or you'll go bug eyed. have to say, you are one of the most meaningless, thoughtless, soul lacking people on this blog who has no opinion whatsoever. To all other posters, you're welcome. I'll say it because I personally don't care and have about had it with this troll of trolls in our discussions. Bring in on Thor, if you can expand beyond calling people hippies and calling a citizen's action group your trite little names. You lack creativity, you lack an ability to formulate a thought, you more than likely haven't sat in any classrooms beyond your GED night class.

No stadium on the waterfront, and once we get it voted down, I'm putting a 'Told you so Thor' sign in my front yard.

Chew on that, Viking she-man lady.

[Chris Jenkins]

Hey Thor, looks like your early optimism was off base. Obviously the Rays employees all got their votes in on the first day, but after that, the rest of the city began filing in to make their votes...and lo and behold, "No concerns" has dropped to nearly a quarter, while the location, cost, and liability have shown up as the top concerns over all. Guess there are more thinking people in the city then you planned for, eh?

Don't worry, when this is all said and done, you can buy me lunch, and we'll giggle about how long it took to get it all sorted out. You can do your monosyllabic out-tro's for me, which will have everyone at the table cracking up. It is still funny, despite how long you've been running the same schtick.

P.S. You killed me with how you owned the Richmond radio boards. I imagine if all of us down here were a bunch of indie radio listening college students, you would have done as well here.

In fact, it seems you vary your routine very little no matter where you go. This has provided me with endless hilarity. "Bubette Smith"? I cried laughing.

You are so good at it, in fact, that I think you might just be a professional...in which case, you should give me a call sometime. I can always use someone who knows their way around a media campaign online.

At any rate, not to raz you too much about your early poll expectations, but hey, sometimes the ironies have to be put in the spotlight.

[Chris Jenkins]

P.S. I've heard now from someone on the grounds team at the Trop that the word on the inside is that if they don't get the new deal, they are leaving. While we all know that's B.S., based on lease and legal obligations, it certainly works as an internal rumor to motivate all the hard working, honest folks who make their living off the Rays to fight as hard as they can for their own livelihood.

If we all keep in mind that not everyone with a different viewpoint is some alien in a vacuum of reality light years from our own, and in fact, might be the guy next to you at Mastry's, we might be able to keep our conversations a little more civil.

[since 1962]

redevelopment of tropicana site is a given and if team and fans want a new stadium THERE is where it ought to be. The downtown waterfront will not support traffic, parking, esthethic, issues the stadium raises . Redevelop Progress Energy Park for ALL to use in conjunction with Dali, Mahaffy and existing park system.

[jes]

The only acceptable way to use MY TAX MONEY is to buy the Rays a one-way bus ticket across the bay.

[Klien]

Has anyone ever heard the old saying that goes - "screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice shame on me"?

Back before the Devil Rays came along, the city pitched the idea of building Tropicana Field to the entire Tampa Bay area. It was on every radio station, on every news cast on television and on the front pages of the Tribune and the Times. We were guaranteed back then that the new stadium would "revitilize" the entire city! We were told that there'd be thousands of jobs created as a result of building it. We were told that it would bring multitudes of people into the city, with little to no parking issues or traffic issues. We were told that the patrons of the new stadium would be parting with their hard earned cash left and right, making the local business owners profitable and that the entire venture could only be a big, giant positive for St. Petersburg and the surrounding areas. The people fell for it hook, line and sinker, and you know what - I have seen very little improvement to the city due solely to the opening of Tropicana Field and now, LESS THAN 20 YEARS LATER, they want to tear it down to put up whatever it is they have planned? And on top of that, they want a new and improved stadium built in a place like downtown's waterfront?!!? This is LUDICROUS! I want no part of this new plan! I say - and I WILL NOT CHANGE MY MIND NO MATTER WHAT IS "PROMISED" - No more of my money will be spent on the friviolus,impetous politicians who are the ONLY ONES benefiting from these ventures, who will stoop to any level to slither through any crack or crevice to get what they want! NO ONE THAT I HAVE SPOKEN WITH WANTS THIS NEW STADIUM TO BE BUILT, so therefore, I am confused as to why it is still out there. If the people say no - then it should be a closed issue. But again, I am sure it will get built regardless of what the people want becuase that is the way of the land. The wealthy get wealthier (at the expense of the middle class) and the poor get poorer.

If it comes to it - I say take the Devil Rays somewhere else then! Quit threatening to take them and DO IT! I'll tell you why that won't happen though - because the Rays owners know they have some suckers on the line willing to bite at just about anything.

I warn anyone reading this who are being sucked in by all of these empty promises that by building this new water front stadium, it will IN ITSELF transform downtown St. Pete into some incredible money making machine, this is all propaganda put out by the big money makers who will be the only ones to profit here! You will not profit as you're being led to believe. The people of St. Petersburg will be shafted once again! I can guarantee it! It's called history repeating itself.

The county needs to spend money in the right places like education and community development making our streets safer for the good people of this city and this county.

[PAT]

What a wonderful time we will have hanging out in the HOT summer sun of Florida?? A baseball park with out a roof is great where it is cool most days by 5 but not here. This is why I won't go to concerts in the summer any more at the Ford Ampitheater. It is just too hot.

[Paul]

I agree with Klien and his/her comment brings up a new point:

The Tropicana was built with many promises of jobs, creating businesses, growth, etc. It failed at that miserably and their is nothing happening within blocks of it.

What if they put the new mega stadium in on the waterfront... and it KILLS the surrounding area's business and vibrancy by sucking out the resources of parking, dollars being spent, etc? Now there's an angle... a new stadium could, and I'm of the opinion it would, HURT downtown business... not help it in one single way at all.

Do not build this monster stadium. It is a rip off of our City and economy. The designers of this scheme are perhaps the smartest, slimiest people on the planet. Be very very careful if you support his idea, because it is no better than snake oil.

[charlie]

The DEVIL rays have a slim window to pass this stadium issue, you see all the condos that Rick Baker and co have approved have not filled yet until then the stadium must pass. after the condos are occupied and the real traffic mess starts the rays simply says it's the condos... Perhaps I will build a swimming pool in Rick Baker's front yard,,, hey it would make him the most popular guy on the street he would have all the parties at his house and I could charge him umm say 50 million,, he would probally say hey I can't pay that,,, then I say if you cant afford 50 mill how can I afford the stadium??

[Mel]

Again, what about the failure of the Tropicana Field promises back in the 90's? This is OUR land people!! We need to be asking questions here. If we sit idly by and allow big govt. to continue to make these big deals in order to fatten up their own wallets and pocket books, we will all live in a huge, boiling hot, concrete dungeon that is 40% empty!!

Keep St. Pete small and quaint. It's fine the way it is. The businesses along Beach Dr. do not look like they are in dire straits to me! Walk past Moon Under Water any Friday, Saturday or Sunday evening OR Parkshore Grill almost any afternoon or evening and you will see the true flourishment of these local waterfront businesses.

Anyone who is currently NOT flourishing, is probably not offering the right kind of services for the area that they occupy. NO baseball stadium will miraculously change that.

And Create new jobs? They will take the current people that are working at the Trop, move them here to the new waterfront stadium and there will be very little jobs for anyone new.

I'm sorry, but I've heard all of this before. every time a politician wants to gt elected what are the two things most of them promise - jobs & economic growth! B.S! It's all part of the game. And I'm not talking about a baseball game either.

[Dan]

For the life of me, I'm tired of public officials running campaign ads to take public property, e.g. the beautiful waterfront of St. Pete for the profits of a private entity (Rays). Then give them Million$ in Police Overtime to supliment their profits. On top of it all, you want the local tax payers to pay to lose their property and beautiful scenery. So, how is this a win-win?

[Mel]

Oh!Dan! It's a win-win because this project is going to "REVITALIZE" the down town area! Just think of all the "NEW JOBS" that will be created in this project and how many people it will bring downtown to our waterfront - THOUSANDS! Especially on a night when the Rays are playing some other team like the Yankees.

NOT!!!

This is what they told us in the late 80's and early 90's when they wanted to slither Tropicana Field plans through the cracks and look at what THAT'S done for the Grand Central corridor! Empty buildings, closed down businesses, as much crime as ever before in the area. Oh! Wait! I forgot about what it's done for Ferg's. Ferg's is probably the ONE AND ONLY place that benefitted from Tropicana Field's inception!

DON'T LISTEN TO ALL THE HYPE AND PROPAGANDA. Not ONE of them can be substantiated. It's all "forcasted" information.

Everyone who is opposed to this new stadium should be at the upcoming City Council meeting on May 22nd at City Hall. You can start signing in at 3:30 if you want to speak. If not, the meeting starts at, I believe, 6:00 p.m. in Room 100. It's a very important meeting, or so I'm told. But don't be surprised if at the very last second, like when you go to show up at the doors of city hall, they tell you it's either been cancelled, rescheduled for a later date, or moved to some other location.

[jd]

Are you people crazy? A baseball game in Florida with no roof or air conditioning?
No parking? Rain most afternoons - humidity? It was hot enough in March at Spring training. What's next - no hot dogs or beer?? Trop is old and antiquated???? Have you ever been to Wrigley? Old and antiquated is CLASS! It's Baseball! Trop is not old or antiquated. It works just fine. Maybe its not the park that needs replacing...

[jd]

Are you people crazy? A baseball game in Florida with no roof or air conditioning?
No parking? Rain most afternoons - humidity? It was hot enough in March at Spring training. What's next - no hot dogs or beer?? Trop is old and antiquated???? Have you ever been to Wrigley? Old and antiquated is CLASS! It's Baseball! Trop is not old or antiquated. It works just fine. Maybe its not the park that needs replacing...

[Thank Goodness]

Dan, Mel, JD, bless you.

So great to hear people talking some sense in here.

[Thank Goodness]

Dan, Mel, JD, bless you.

So great to hear people talking some sense in here.

[Chuck]

Ugh.

Morons.

[What's Up Chuck?]

Thanks for further reinforcing our resolve with insults!

[Chuck]

Ok. You back the guy comparing the Trop to Wrigley because they're both old and antiquated.

There are so many things wrong with that statement but let's just focus on the fact that if anyone truly believes that they have a seriously warped sense of reality.

You guys are going to be really sad when the silent majority shows up to vote for John McCain and the stadium initiative passes 65-35.

[huh?]

Chuck, you mean the silent majority here in Pinellas who are democrats (http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/article485975.ece) for the first time in over 20 years?

By the way, most old school conservatives I know do not like the stadium plan...John McCain, well that's another story.

[Chuck]

Republican business owners and county regulators will probably figure out a way to alter the bus schedule, making it impossible for the Democratic electorate to make it to the polls.

Those evil Republicans are so sinister.

AND OLD!

[John]

"To be honest, it's a little surpring that waterfront location concerns are outpacing the concerns about the cost of a new ballpark."

I have to assume that you do not understand the hearts and souls of those who love to live in St. Petersburg.

It is possible to be a baseball fan and still have respect and admiration for our waterfront. Do you realize how huge the new stadium is? The argument that there's already baseball on the waterfront is like saying that a Mack truck can fit into a Beetle's parking place - both are vehicles but both cannot fit in the same space!

I talked to some folks from the SP Sailing Center the other day - a father and son. They are very concerned that the new stadium will have a tremendous effect on their ability to go sailing! Its sheer mass is like sailing next to a 20 story high cliff - not much wind gets through that wall. Our waterfront (and water) is for everyone's enjoyment - baseball can be played just as well 16 blocks away from the water.

If a new stadium is so important, why not do like they did in New York? Build the new stadium (as designed) on the parking lot and then demolish the old one.

Of course it wouldn't be exactly like New York, the Yankees put up $1.1 Billion and New York City put up $200 Million which included the land cost. See the summary at http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/nyybpk.htm

I guess it's not a very scientific poll, so all that doesn't really matter, does it?

[Thor]

John, Thor can help you. Thor knows the reason the water front view is in vougue is because of all of the nice people at 1 Beach Drive. Thor knows that are the ones yelling stomping and screaming. They have a program that allows them to change their IP addresses over and over allowing them to keep on posting. Very nice, Thor compliments you on that. Thor knows this, and now John does too. Hey Chris, Thor only has drinks with fun people who like new things. You seem old and boring. Thor does not like her men that way. Aaron, Thor wants to know where is the truth o meter? Thor has spoken, Thor is wise, Thor is brave Thor no longer has the sniffles.

[Thor is right - Truth o meter]

Aaron,

Thor makes sense. Put out a Truth O Meter, especially when POWW says anything.

[Jon]

St. Pete needs to realize if we don't build this waterfront ballpark we will lose the Rays. Let's not miss out on this win-win opportunity. Some other city will be willing to build the Rays a new stadium and they will be able to get out of their lease with St Pete. The Rays do not want to move. They are certainly trying to stay here for a long time. The bottom line is the Trop is not a long term solution and the residents of St Pete need to realize that. Many cities would love to have a Major League Baseball team. St. Pete could potentially miss out on a terrific opportunity here. All of the revenue from Boston & NY fans (as much as I hate them) really help out our city. Let's not forget, they want to build where a completely vacant stadium currently exists. They are not tearing down a school or hospital or anything like that. Let's build this new ballpark!

[really?]

If the Rays move because we dont build them a new stadium USING MOSTLY OUR MONEY AND ONLY ON OUR WATERFRONT, that just shows the kind of people they are to begin with and how committed to this area they really are.

DONT LET THESE FAT-CATS TRY TO BLACKMAIL US INTO BUILDING THEM A NEW STADIUM!!

[really?]

http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/thats-outrageous----sports-owners-and-your-tax-money/article19207.html

[really?]

please read the Readers Digest article i linked to above for some food for thought on publicly subsidized stadiums

[Thomas]

Please spare us the Chicken Little argument John:

"St. Pete needs to realize if we don't build this waterfront ballpark we will lose the Rays. Let's not miss out on this win-win opportunity. Some other city will be willing to build the Rays a new stadium and they will be able to get out of their lease with St Pete."

- The lease at the Trop goes through 2027 and it has been promoted as ironclad.
- I'll humor you. If the Rays somehow miraculously got out of the lease, where exactly are they going to go? Be specific. What city is MLB going to accept and how is that city going to build a stadium?

There is no need to panic. The Rays are not going anywhere. They cannot extort tax payers with that old gag.

So cheer up John!

[Jon]

Hey Thomas - The owner of the Baltimore Colts promised the city he would never move the team. We all know what happened on that snowy night in March 1984. It happened because Indy built a stadium for them. The Baltimore Colts were a beloved, historic franchise. If a team with such a huge legacy could move, you're naive to think a relatively new (10 year old team) without much tradition couldn't leave. I want to be perfectly clear that really like this new ownership group. They have made tremedous improvements with the team and community and they have my complete support. I certainly trust that they do not want to move. I'm very excited about the stadium idea and am thrilled that the team wants to stay in St. Pete. I'm perplexed at the naysayers of the new ballpark since this will be a win-win situation for the team and the city. This team is competing now and will continue to get better in the next few years. The reality is when the Rays' young players turn into stars and become free agents, the team will need a revenue stream to retain them. The new stadium would provide that revenue stream. If residents vote against it, and if another city makes a tempting offer to build them a new stadium coupled with community support, I could see the Rays entertain that offer. Why wouldn't they? They've made it clear the Trop is not a long term solution. Cities such as Las Vegas, Memphis, Portland, etc., would love to have a baseball team. As a St. Pete resident, I'd vote for the new stadium even if taxpayers had to pay for it. This is not the case, the owners are willing to fund the ballpark so will not cost taxpayers a dime.

[Don Mott]

"It won't cost the taxpayers a dime." Do you have your head buried in the sand or what?

[Mark]

Let's be very frank here. An open air waterfront stadium on the bay in St. Pete sounds great until it rains every evening. Wash that down with 90 degrees and muggy every night and even the "baseball purists" will want a roof. Forget how much it costs or who is paying for it, the functional design is not good for the thunderstorm heaven that is Tampa Bay.

[mrclean]

Yeah Jon show me one of these bankrupt cities that is going to come up with the money. If the go to Vegas or Memphis there's no waterfront. They might as well go to ToyTown and pay for it themselves. Von Hayes was on another thread. He might come up with the ToyTown land. To me the bottom line is if the team owners cared about the team the would build a stadium in Tampa along the I4 corridor.

[if you build it they still won't come]

So a new stadium would equal increased attendance? Maybe for the first year or two. Then after that...

Well, let's just ask the Washington Nationals:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-nationalsattendance050408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[sick of POWW lies & Thieves]

should I now call you speedy? Friday at 5 o'cloc, 5 pro-stadium signs went up on 2nd ave s. By 5:30- they were gone. Everytime you steal a sign, you prove to people you will stop at nothing to keep us from voting. What are you so afraid of if the majority gets to weigh in on this issue? Oh ya, you'll lose!
Hey POWW lady- Sorry I missed your little showdown at the o-k corral on Thursday- challenging me to respond. But unlike you apparently, I work and have children at home. I dont spend my days blogging with zealots that can not be reasoned with. In response to your comment on thursday about how the new stadium will ruin St Pete. The only thing it will ruin is your waterfront view from ONE BEACH DRIVE. Cheer up, you may be in an assisted living facility by the first pitch is thrown out. To your second point of what would we vote on. It is up to the city attorney to approve the language, but I hope it is simple and straightforward. Do you want to enter into a new lease agreement with the Rays on the Al Lang site and redevelop Tropicana Field- YES/NO. Despite what you say, voters are intelligent enough to make up thier own minds.
For the future, I will not engage in debate with you further. You prove daily that you will stop at nothing and use any means to stop the democratic process- just read what your fearless leaders Hal and Lorraine said in the April 13th SP TIMES "Foes Relentless in quest to shut down stadium" http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article454550.ece

[sick of lies about POWW and thieves calling others thieves]

Okay, here you go, I want everyone to notice this carefully crafted response I just got:

"Do you want to enter into a new lease agreement with the Rays on the Al Lang site and redevelop Tropicana Field- YES/NO."

Problem: We need to be able to decide exactly what we want, exactly when we want it, exactly where we want it, and exactly how much its going to cost us. Anything else is not in keeping with the “democratic spirit” that would dictate this be put before the voters in the first place. Without the power to be specific, in other words, what good is our vote anyway?

You see, "pro stadium" people aren't necessarily interested in democracy. They just want to get this on the ballot at all costs because they know the Rays will then pour tens of millions of dollars into "convincing" the public that it's in their best interest.

On one hand, they tell us to "wait until all the facts are in before making up or minds." Then, in the same breath, they say that they have already made up their minds that this should be on the ballot in November. Makes no sense, unless democracy isn't really their true motivation.

We see right through you jokers.

And again, for the record Tracey, POWW has had hundreds of signs stolen. No matter, they just got a shipment of thousands more to replace those and bring some for their neighbors as well.

[get-smart]

Here is the question I would like to see, if it gets that far:

"Do you want to destroy the Al Lang Waterfront location with new Rays stadium using your tax dollars that will only enrich these greedy NY Goldman Sacks investment bankers who became wealthy by aiding and abetting the outsourcing of our American jobs to China and now $200/bbl Oil?"
[No] [Hell No] [Damn No]

[Jon McPhee]

"Jon," it should be clear, is not this Jon.

[Spellcheck Get-Smart]

Get Smart,

I have been watching you for a week not spell Goldman Sachs correctly. It is with an "h", not a "k". If you are going to have only one point that isn't even warranted, at least click spell check.

I know, I know, you are going to come back at me w/ accusations and profanity, but I thought I would you radicals where I can.