NY Times weighs in on what Ballpark Frankness has been talking about all week

We're not saying the brass at the New York Times read Ballpark Frankness. But the NYT's story today about attendance at the Trop seems to mimic many of the points we all have been talking about here.

Take a look for yourselves.

We'll have more about attendance in tomorrow's print edition, as well. After less than 14,000 fans on Monday night, we're hearing that the crowd is not going to be that much bigger on Tuesday.

Comments

[Adam]

Aaron, I think the more important question at this early stage in the season is whether the Rays' television ratings have increased.

The season is young. Fans are still too skeptical to attend games they normally wouldn't have attended, such as weekday games.

But increased television ratings would be a good barometer of increased fan support.

[Don Mott]

What channel do you get them on Adam?

[Jon McPhee]

From the NYT article linked above:

"And though the Tampa market has supported spring training for decades, it has one of the lower per capita incomes and corporate sponsor bases of any market in the game."

Maybe Lana, who posts elsewhere, has something. Maybe baseball has not been berry, berry good to St. Pete for some organic reasons. Reasons that won't be "cured" by a stadium giveaway and high-end development.

Why do people and businesses move to St. Pete? Can't be the great school system or low cost of living or cheap labor. People are LEAVING the area with those issues in mind. Beaches? Parks? A slower pace? A more human scale? I'm sure our City Fathers and Mothers know, but they have their own notions of how things ought to be, untrammelled by the will of the people as expressed at the ballot box.

No amount of "wanting" and "hoping" will change the real estate and tax and wage realities. With all the growth areas in the country to choose from, why move here?

Maybe the charming Lana, who joins us apparently from New Tampa, has the right idea. Maybe the Tampa Bay Rays would do better in a Tampa location. If the DINKs and mover-shakers in Tampa want to gift the Rays owners with a new stadium, and don't expect US here in St. Pete and Pinellas to contribute a nickel (as they have no intention of contributing a nickel to the proposal under debate over here), hey, cut the Rays a deal on breaking their current lease and let them slide into a new home plate across the Bay.

Anyone consider that not everyone likes to join a crowd and watch over-paid dudes give half- or three-quarter efforts to "the home team," which for most is not even where they live? That even winning teams are having trouble drawing fans to the "current-generation" zoomy-wow, Baseball-As-God-Meant-It-To-Be-Played "outdoor" stadiums fitted with spritzers and blowers and "comfort areas" (with what kinds of sight lines?) to give the rugged outdoors fan a place to escape the discomfort of the great outdoors?

[Paul]

Sorry to change the topic... but anyone got a link to the 100 businesses who support this boondoggle? I certainly don't want to spend any of my money at their locations... please help, let me know the link.

Thanks.

[Mike]

Please keep an eye on Mr. McPhee. I think he needs to be on suicide watch. (You sound like a miserable person.)

Yeah, please post the link to the 100 businesses. My friends, family, and co-workers all want to support these businesses. I will patronize them more because of their support.

Go Rays! (But not too loudly. Mr. McPhee is napping on the green bench over there ...)

[Raymond the Rays Mascot]

Hey Jon McPhee, why don't you leave then our beautiful city then & do us all a favor. Rays rock & St. Pete long live together in new bayfront stdium.

Go Rays!

[Chuck]

Aaron -

Keep in mind this is a PRELIMINARY design. I have to negotiate the funding with my investors. I was wondering if you'd be willing to wear one on Thursday...

http://www.cafepress.com/POWWSUCKS

Don't worry Jon, it's just a joke.

[Mike]

Awesome, Chuck! It should say something about being pro-stadium too, though. Either way, sign me up!

[Rick K]

Paul, using the links on this site, I was able to jump here, to find this link...

Businesses who support

http://www.fansforwaterfrontstadium.com/business.html

[Paul]

Thanks Rick, just read your post. I actually know the owners of several of those businesses, should make for interesting conversation next time I chat with them.

[Don in St. Pete]

Chuck, If they build a stadium on the waterfront, I hope you and Mike and Raymond enjoy yourselves as you'll probably be able to pick whichever seat you want. Attendance will decrease and then the Rays will leave town and redevelop the Al Lang site with 40 story condos.

[Chuck]

Haha. Good one Don! Way to fail to recognize stadium support outside of your blog community.

I know the stupid people in the county are really making you nervous right now, for good reason. The stupid vote almost always comes out ahead.

[Mike]

Love the list! I hope the non-supporters do boycott. Keep the stiffs away from all of those awesome businesses downtown that want to see more! But seriously, where would you people go? That's pretty much all of downtown ...

Some folks, remarkably, say that business would suffer by bringing 20,000 people downtown 81+ nights a year. Well, it might be news to that Who's Who of downtown businesses! The actual business owners support the prospect of having all of these people around their establishments. Silliness! But they're ignorant too, right? Right?!?

[Paul]

Mike, you must not be downtown very much. Although there are a handful of supposed supporting businesses, it was hardly 'nearly all of them'. I'll ask the few I recognize if they are aware they are on the list... and if they are ok with that... and most importantly why are they in support of the stadium. I would guess there would be varying reasons, many of which I'd like to hear... because I for one, think a mega-stadium would be completely out of place, character and scale. Not saying I'm against a new stadium itself, just not on the Al Lang property.

[Mike]

Paul -- It's just about every single worthwhile place to eat and drink in downtown.