POWW says the stadium could look like this

From St. Pete Protect our Wallets and Waterfront, the group opposing the Rays' stadium plan:

"Who controls the naming rights to the stadium and just how much of the stadium itself could be used as a billboard are still very much up in the air. Remember, they need money, money, money to pay for this thing!

"They could even use the sail as a huge movie screen and play ads on it that could be seen from miles away. Its just one more reason why this is a BAD IDEA.

"Why take something healthy and beautiful and destroy it when there are perfectly good alternatives??"

Comments

[get-smart]

I'm hungry now. What's $4.99 special?

[disgusting]

This makes me want to puke just looking at it. True, it MAY not be this bad, but it could be close. What if it's Taco Bell Field?

Just keep the Trop for now and lets talk about a new stadium in a couple of years.

NOW IS NOT THE TIME AND THIS IS NOT THE PLACE.

[Ken]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Aaron, why are you posting patently false and misleading info from POWW? Just because they oppose the stadium doesn't mean everything they say or post to their site is newsworthy. If my three-year-old draws a picture with crayons, will you post that too? City planners can control signage on all buildings downtown if they choose to do so. (see the SunTrust sign on our skyline). If signage on the ballpark is a concern, just pass an ordinance or, better yet, put a prohibition in the lease with the Rays. It's not a valid reason to oppose the ballpark. POWW's graphic is pure fiction and scare tactics.

[Ray F]

Well, using that same thought process, shouldn't Tropicana blast a projector from the pitcher's mound toward the roof and advertise fresh Florida Orange juice to people flying above???

This is a real stretch to bring up a stupid argument. Using that "artist's renditioning", we can assume that only people in cayaks fishing for homeruns would see the advertisement.

The facts are there. We are paying the same amount for the new field as we would pay anyway on the Trop. Proponents haven't even looked at the financing plan. Otherwise, there would be no objections. If you want baseball to stay in St. Pete, vote yes. I wouldn't support the team in Tampa. They didn't deserve them in the first place and I won't spend a dime in Tampa.

[Paul]

I think the image brings up a valid point. Why is there only one drawing from the Rays on what the stadium will look like?

Put up several scenarios of what a fully operational, sold out advertising space, stadium will and could look like.

The Rays are completely downplaying just how big and monsterous this behemoth stadium could/would be.

You got some nice pretty pics to show? Put up the links to them... show us how this massive structure co-exists and actually adds something to our beautiful waterfront.

You don't need Aaron's approval. You can put just about any links you want here in the blog.

[Barbie]

Ken, how is this "patently false"? Is it outside the realm of possibility? I think not!

By the way, I did look at the Rays financing plan and it does not add up. Aside from the totally fabricated parking revenues, they use the $70 million from the sale of the Trop site twice. Once to pay the Trop debt AND a second time to fund the new stadium.

Talk about patently false.

[Aaron Sharockman]

Ken,
People are smart enough to read into this what they want.

If people think the Rays are going to take what they refer to as the defining architecture of St. Petersburg and slather it up with advertisements, I don't think they were going to support the project anyway.

But it is obvious people have concerns over the naming rights of the new stadium, and who may share in those revenues.

This blog is about dialogue. I think this image provokes a discussion of the naming rights. Or it may, from your perspective, provoke a discussion about POWW's "scare tactics."

So, talk away.

[Rick K]

Barbie:

You are mistaken. The $70 Million is only used once.

[Aaron Sharockman]

Barbie,

On the financing plan, the Rays are not counting the $70 million from the sale of the Trop site twice. Here's how it works.

* The $175-million from the extension of the county and city payments that the Rays are asking for starts in 2017.

* The $70-million from the developer is the equilavent of the current debt service on Tropicana Field that will be reshifted to the new stadium.

Now, it's perfectly reasonable to say that the $70-million from the developer -- since it would pay for the Trop debt -- not be included in the "financing plan." And that instead, the $70-million also come from the city and county tax payments.

So to recap, here's how the Rays get to $450-million

$175-million by extension of city and county payments starting in 2017.

$150-million from the team

$70-million from either 1) the developer's purchase price on the trop or 2) the existing debt payments on the trop that will be transfered to the new stadium, and

$55-million in guaranteed parking revenues.

I hope that helps.

[Barbie]

And which "once" is that?

[Barbie]

And will they pay rent in addition to the $150 million?

[Barbie]

And what happens if the "guaranteed" parking revenues don't pan out?

[Ray F]

Again,

Look at the Trop. I don't see tropicana plastered all over it. The advertisements are very tasteful and I have 100% confidence in Rays ownership to continue their use of discretion on that front. You guys are getting way ahead of yourselves.

St. Pete will lose baseball forever. This proves to the Rays that they have no community support. Thanks POWW for skewing the results. Might as well get your VOTE FOR McCAIN signs printed too so you can sway that vote.

While your at it, start reserving the charter buses to haul old people from their retirement communities to the polls and tell them how to vote while promising them a catered Denny's breakfast if they vote no.

3 steps backward unless we vote yes. Don't vote 'no' based on today's economy. That isn't smart investing. Vote yes on the future gains that WILL COME!!!

[Make A Deal]

Let's negotiate.
What the city has:
1. waterfront stadium(Rays first choice)
2. existing urban development around proposed stadium.
3. existing parking at the Trop stadium

What the Rays have:
1. a MLB Rays team
2. tens of millions already invested
3. 6 wealthy men behind the curtain

The city of St. Pete has what they want most. It would cost the Rays less and yield a higher return to stay here.
The Rays need any capital gained to invest in player contracts, training facilities, and the spring training stadium.

St. Pete owns a Dome that is currently being leased. With the lease agreement coming to an end, and tenants that want out, we need to negotiate a deal to keep the MLB team in town.

If St. Pete can not appease the Rays and they leave to seek their fortune elsewhere, we will have a Dome and no tenant.

We will have 85 acres of empty, non taxed land, that we will own free and clear, but now have to pay for the clean up ourselves, or solicit a major developer that want the project.

And all with the clout of....??

Our artist? Microsoft? Help me out, who else in St. Pete is as well known as the MLB baseball team the Rays?
Who else in St. Pete is getting the press and airtime of the Rays.
When the Rays perform bad, St. Pete still was talked about all over the US, Japan, and Canada- because we hosted the worst performing team in baseball.

[Peggy]

Since when is a renter(Rays) allowed to take money from the owner(City/County) and use it toward any kind of development? Thats taxpayers money!!! In addition to the Bed Tax money! Enough with the Rays Stadium issue, nothing adds up. There isn't enough parking to put it downtown. Heck there isn't even enough handicap spots at the Trop, with their huge parking lots. And traffic was a mess in the Sox and Yankees series. Just think what a mess it would be downtown. And who the heck wants to sit outside in the heat and humidity? All this because Stu doesn't like the Trop, isn't that a shame or sham? The whole idea is just plain stupity.
What next Stu? Threaten us with moving the team? Thats whats next isn't it?

[Barbie]

What a crock! If the Rays want to leave because we won't buy them a new stadium like little spoiled brats stomping off to their room-- Let them go!

If they truly care about St. Pete then its a non-issue.

We don't to redefine St. Pete. St. Pete is and will continue to be a great little city with a first class waterfront. People don't want to see the latter denigrated, which is why there are groups like POWW and thousands and thousands of red signs ALL OVER TOWN.

POWW hasn't scared me or mislead me, they just happen to stand for something I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH.

And if you have such a problem with St. Pete and think only this stadium will salvage the area, why don't you take a hike right along with the Rays after we the people VOTE THIS NONSENSE DOWN!

[Earl]

poww (they don't deserve caps) is so off the mark it's not even funny. They admit to using lies to state their weak case. The St. Pete Times should not succumb to their lunacy and give them any credit. They are using lies, propaganda and scare tactics and ignoring the true facts. Shame on them for their lies. poww will be trounced by the majority who say LET'S BUILD THIS BALL PARK! Go Rays!

[Rick K]

Barbie, calm down.

First of all, you exagerate the number of Red signs. Well, you overstate the number of people who have put out red signs.

Second, the issue before us is not about the Rays "caring" about St. Pete. It is about what future the citizens want for our city in 2012, 2022, and 2032. Your position is clear. You like the status quo.

Good for you. Others may prefer a different future for the City. Which is why we vote.

You are already convinced, so POWW's distortions and distractions have no impact on you. I doubt they will actually influence anyone, but I am trying to get everyone in this discussion to be honest and not intentionally distort.

There is no need to cheat.

If the anti's are convinced the merits of their case are superior, they don't need to try to cheat.

[Barbie]

Earl, seems like the majority have RED signs not your little white and blue ones.

And "Lets build the ballpark"?

Fine, build it somewhere other than the waterfront with money that doesn't come from taxpayers or the sale of public assets.

How about that?

[Make A Deal]

Is it non-sense to go to the table and say alright your asking us for $245mil.
That number doesn't work, but it's a start.
Knowing that we don't want to sell our waterfront, it is wise to keep ownership. So we ask them to pay $100mil more and no ads on the sail!

Barbie, is it non-sense that the Trop will have been attended to eventually when it sits empty on 85 acres of polluted ground.
What is the solution to that very real scenario?

[Barbie]

Rick, wrong wrong wrong.

I see red signs everywhere. Even huge red ones in some places.

Sure, there are some white and blue ones, but they are outnumbered easily 10-1.

And where's the "cheating" these people are doing that you keep referring to? Showing what the stadium COULD look like?

That's arbitrary, not cheating.

[Taxpayer]

I've got the perfect solution. If your in favor of the stadium, you pay for it, special tax!!! You get to go to the games. If you don't want the stadium, you don't pay, no tax! You can't go to the games. I think thats fair. This way, everybody gets what they want. Simple, easy, solution.

[Barbie]

"Barbie, is it non-sense that the Trop will have been attended to eventually when it sits empty on 85 acres of polluted ground.
What is the solution to that very real scenario?"

Uh...aren't you suggesting redeveloping that area?

[Make A Deal]

Wow -
Is that formula for ever public access venue.
If you want to go to the Fine Arts Museum you get taxed at the door!

How about if you want the library so bad, you pay for the electric bill!

Some venues in our city are here to unite us. A team that people can believe in for a win is unifying. Everyone there is wearing Rays hats. Children are now growing up under Rocco Baldeli and Percival. There are tax funded little leagues all over the city and county. Americans love sports. St. Pete loves being outdoors. We have more parks and bike trails, despite the heat and bugs,(with no concession stands or air conditioned corridors) than anyone else in Fl.

[Make A Deal]

Redeveloping while prices for land and labor are low makes a more it a more attractive deal for the developer.

It's not like the 85 acres of the Trop are going to increase in value much because of the increased liability for the developer