The original Tropicana Field

Click for larger photo

Tropicana Field might have looked like this.

The St. Petersburg Times has unearthed a preliminary design for Tropicana Field that included outdoor seating with a tent roof to shield both the field and fans from the weather.

The black-and-white picture above was taken by Times photographer Fraser Hale in early 1983. (You should be able to click on the photo to make it larger). In the distance is the old Bayfront Arena. On the right is Interstate 175. A fabric roof stretches over a boomerang shaped baseball stadium, anchored to the upper deck on one end, and at the ground on the other. Fountains shoot up from center field.

That stadium, of course, was never built.

The plan, the work of the Pinellas Sports Authority, was shelved after city and county leaders pressed for a multipurpose dome to attract activities other than baseball.

The Tampa Bay Rays now want to level that dome for a stadium, shown at right, very much like the one local leaders first contemplated. The Rays had never seen the 1983 picture before, they say.

"People were really impressed with it," recalled former sports authority chairman Cecil Engelbert, one of the few living people still associated with the original design. "It would have sure been attractive."

If the Rays get their way, we still may get to see it.

Comments

[Mark]

Also remember that the baseball stadium was sold as a way to start redevelopment in St. Pete. Of course, the only place in the city that hasn't been redeveloped is the waste land around the dome.

[get-smart]

AAron - Idea for survey

Which song best describes to you the New Waterfront Stadium Proposal?

Living without You - Harry Nilsson

Tell Her No - The Zombies

Give Me Some Truth - John Lennon

- - movie titles may work too.

[JR]

Wow that original design actually looks quite nice.

[Bill]

The new waterfront ballpark will be a tremedous enhancement for St. Pete. I cannot wait for it to be built. Having water taxis shuttle fans from Tampa to St. Pete will cut down on parking/traffic and would be a fun way to travel to a game. Go Rays! Build the new ballpark!

[Mike]

These songs would better describe my feelings for the new stadium ...

Satisfaction - Rolling Stones

What I Like About You - The Romantics

You're the One that I Want - Olivia Newton-John

Let's get this stadium done!

(Waiting patiently for the two or three smear artists to dress me down for daring to support the stadium ...)

[Dr_Dug]

Don't trust the Rays Owners! They've seen that picture before!
LYING COPYCATS

NO WATERFRONT STADIUM.

[RayF]

They should've built that to begin with. That would be considered state of the art by today's standards and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Obviously, the decision makers aren't good at their job. I say we use this knowledge as reasoning to build the new park based on the fact that 20years from now, we can say... "ahhh glad we didn't listen to a bunch of whithered old people who have nothing better to do with their time than sit at home complaining about the waterfront they never visit in the first place. Face it people, the green benches and shuffleboard tournaments are gone. Deal with it.

[Ian]

I went to the game on Saturday night. Getting to the Trop from 275 is a breeze parking took 5 mins. The atmosphere at the game was great, I think I saw comments from players and managers describing the atmosphere as "electrifying" and '10th Man".
After the game we were in the car and back on 275 in 10 minutes, and that was with 25,000 people there. I just dont see how thats going to happen if the new stadium is built.
It goes without saying for me that 72deg A/C feels pretty good too.
The Trop is perfectly serviceable I havent seen one convincing argument for demolishing it!

[Jon McPhee]

Hey, Aaron, did you Times researchers look to see what kind of documentation covered the decision NOT to build a tent-city stadium way back when? Maybe because it was too hot, too impractical and too expensive? How about sharing those little details with us, hey?

And Bill and Chuck and all you rooters, my thought is that you ought to get the Rays to go public, so you can buy shares, and with that capital maybe the Rays can do like other businesses that find a need for a new plant -- buy the da-n thing themselves, not out of the pockets of a bunch of increasingly strapped citizens. What-- doesn't seem like a good investment? Then leave your grabby paws off my wallet.

[Jesus C.]

My dad says you should definitely build the staduim; and upsetting him would be bad. Most of the people who are aginst it are on their way to my house anyways...

[Annette]

I agree with Ian! I can't imagine that folks that live and work downtown want to hear the noise that will go on for too many months, and where are people going to park? As it is now, on a really busy game day, you have to park way out from the Trop. Somehow I think we the people, are going to get suckered into this new nonsense.

[Jon in Bradenton]

It's too hot in Florida for outdoor baseball to thrive! (repeat)

[get-smart]

Oh! RayF. Oh! Ye with limited knowledge base. There were no Pro teams in the south during the Green Bench Days. It was too hot. It was Spring Training in Florida that was appealing. The 1983 concept stadium is neat. Now imagine being under the canvas roof after a down pour and the humidity goes up to 100% and no cross ventilation. Use your noodle RayF.. the one in your head!

[John Doe]

If you build it, they will come....

[Aaron Sharockman]

Hey Jon,
I thought I did.

"The plan, the work of the Pinellas Sports Authority, was shelved after city and county leaders pressed for a multipurpose dome to attract activities other than baseball."

Basically, the city and the county wanted to try to use the stadium for things other than baseball, like basketball or hockey (things that have to be indoors). It worked for a while (Lightning, NCAA tournament, etc.), but hasn't really had many classic "indoor" events since.

There are other events at the Trop for sure, boat show, graduations, now a college football bowl game. But those all could have been played outdoors as well.

I'm not saying heat wasn't a factor. But it did appear to be the most pressing concern. Here's two quotes from 1983. First, from St. Petersburg city manager Alan Harvey:

"A dome would open up a lot more options than a facility that's not domed," Harvey said. "We can do a lot with a facility with weather protection. The principal tenant would be baseball, but we've got to build it in such a way that it can accommodate soccer, basketball and possibly even USFL football. There's no way we can build a facility for NFL football. They require too many seats."

And here's Lt. Gov. Wayne Mixson, who presided over a ceremonial groundbreaking for the stadium in 1983. "The design of the stadium is going to make sure the good, sweet air we enjoy outdoors will be brought indoors."

Also, the original design was cheaper than the dome. Again, the city and county agreed to pay more to have a dome that could be used for potentially more events than an outdoor ballpark.

[Ian]

Bill, right now it doesnt seem like too many people from Tampa and beyond can be persuaded to get in their car drive 40 mins to easy parking to watch the game.
Are you seriously suggesting those people will get in their car then get out to take a 10 mile boat ride to watch a game!
I want some of what you've been smoking.

[John]

If they're going to spend half a billion to build the stupid thing they could at least be called THE ST. PETE RAYS.

[Lana]

You are a major league city. Now start acting like it instead of like a bunch of whining little bush leaguers. A major league team is something other cities would love to have. Oh wait - that is the image your city wants to project. Nevermind. In twenty years you will just be Tampa West anyway.

[Bill]

Ian - You must really be depressed. Lighten up and open your eyes to progress. Lots of other cities are growing and prospering. I guess you just want St. Pete and Tampa to regress. Growth, and water tranportation are what cities by bodies of water try to achieve. Go crawl back into your hole!

[Jaded By Past Promises]

The people don't come to watch the Rays play now, what makes you all think that they'd come down here in heavy traffic on a day where it's 90 degrees with 80% humidity to watch them? What about the afternoon/evening thunderstorms we get here almost everyday? That'll be fun sitting through one of those underneath
gi-normous canvas type material, huh?

[Rich]

Hey Ian,

How 'bout a little cheese with that whine?

[Paul]

Rays should go elsewhere. With a catchment of over 2 million people, it's clear the locals are not interesting in a poor baseball side.

[JudyToo]

"If the Rays get their way, we still may get to see it."

If the city officials have any sense at all, they will make sure that the Rays live up to their contract and stay in the stadium they willingly leased for 30 years (no one forced them to do it).

I enjoy reading all the non-reasons for building a new stadium, but the supporters are woefully short when it comes to irrefutable facts. Consider a few:

1. We KNOW that the proposed financing requires tax revenues generated by the proposed redevelopment. These new revenues could be used for city services, improving our police and fire departments, restoring community services like code enforcement personnel, etc.

2. We KNOW that the environmental impact (and that includes much more than the encroachment on the bay) issues have not been defined, resolved or even discussed with appropriate agencies. Bay encroachment, noise, light, litter, sewage, storm water, the list is long.

3. We KNOW that the sailing center will be affected because little boats without motors cannot sail in the shadow of a wall 80' - 200' high that is 900' long.

4. We KNOW that traffic and parking issues will be more problematic than at the Trop. Our current traffic management costs are $400,000 a year at the Trop and they are going up.

5. We KNOW that the Trop works - almost everyone that goes to baseball games and other events in the Trop like the A/C, the parking and no worries about rain and lightning.

6. We KNOW that we still owe $100 Million on the Trop - and we know that it will be paid for in 2016. Our subsidy of the Rays is currently about $3 Million per year because of their very low rental payments. Once the Trop is paid off and the naming rights revenues are increased to the city, those subsidies will drop dramatically.

7. We KNOW what happened with the Trop - the costs ($85 vs $300 Million), the promises, etc.

8. We KNOW that there are a lot of things that just don't seem to make sense, so why are they rushing us to vote now? They don't have all the answers and we can't make an informed decision. Something is fishy about the rush - maybe there's something going on behind the scenes?

9. We KNOW that this new stadium will be paid for with our money, no matter how they try to tell us that it's really not our tax money. Even their $150 Million "contribution" is really our money - they are just paying their rent in advance, then they expect to have 30 tyears rent free!

10. We KNOW we have a 911 emergency call to our city and NO ONE is answering the phone! The city council should be replacing the economic development staff with police officers and paying them fair salaries - they leave us faster than we can replace them for better jobs necxt door. Our firefighters haven't had a contract for four years. Crime is increasing: we have had 13 homicides this year! Every neighborhood is complaining of lack of adequate police patrols. Our city, county and state budgets are reduced this year and will be cut even more next year. The whole thing is just backwards.

Now, what can we say that we really KNOW are reasons we we should even be thinking about this?

Do we KNOW the Rays new stadium will improve our business downtown? Is there a guarantee? In fact, what is wrong with downtown? Seems to be working fine!

Do we KNOW that a developer will find retail businesses that will want them to build new stores on the Trop site?

Do we KNOW there are 2,000 families anxious to buy or rent homes in the Trop area? Don't we have enough homes for sale in St. Pete?

Do we KNOW what it will cost to clean up the Trop site to current residential standards?

Do we KNOW what it will cost to bring in the required infrastructure for the proposed redevelopment and the proposed stadium?

We do KNOW that the Rays have 20 years remaining on their lease at the Trop. Why can't we take a year, get all the answers, and vote for this when we are voting for four council members and a new mayor? They are trying to cram this down our throats this year because there are no local elections.

If the new stadium supporters could come up with one (just one) FACTUAL reason why we should even consider this proposal, then there could be meaningful debate and discussion. As it is, the supporters all say things like "ahhh glad we didn't listen to a bunch of whithered old people who have nothing better to do with their time than sit at home complaining about the waterfront they never visit in the first place. Face it people, the green benches and shuffleboard tournaments are gone. Deal with it."

Guess what? Those are the people paying most of the property taxes that have been supporting the Rays for the last ten years. Maybe they are not going to be duped into subsidizing them for another THIRTY years.

There are zero reasons why taxpayers should subsidize private corporations. When Marriott wants to build a new hotel/resort/condo development, they actually pay for the land and all the construction costs. Then they pay huge property taxes that support the services they require (like streets and water and fire and police).

The Rays want all the citizens of St. Pete and Pinellas county to GIVE them their land, build a stadium for them, tear down the old stadium, pay off the $100 Million debt, clean up the site, sell it to a developer for 10 cents on the dollar, and then divert all the city property taxes to their new stadium. All the while, the Rays PAY NO PROPERTY TAX.

Just one good factual reason why we should do this? Please?

Oh, and don't bother with "we'll look good on TV" or "we want to watch baseball outside" or "we have a history of baseball at Al Lang field" or "that design looks quite nice" or "don't stand in the way of progress" or any of those other empty excuses that just are not worth risking anywhere near $450 Million!

Now, how about a proposal that makes sense? The Rays don't like the dome. They want an outdoor ballpark. Fine. Let them purchase the Trop and the surrounding land from the city - we'll let 'em have it for cost, no profit. Then they can be like the Yankees - build whatever they can sneak past the planning commission next to the Trop.

Build it and they will come. Kevin will help with more videos. Get donations/investments from all those who want a new stadium. If those people want it, let them pay for it. A nice new stadium with no A/C to bother with. LEED certified. They can ask their buddies at Hines if they want to build a mall and/or houses and get some of their money back.

Won't work? Why not? ALL businesses operate that way. Oops, I forgot, this isn't a business. It's a giant corporate welfare scheme designed to make millionaires into billionaires. Remember, all those profits go to New York. Not to St. Pete.

Please, just one factual reason why we should do this. No poppycock, now. Just facts.

[Lana]

Sure. Let them go elsewhere. Keep your heads in the sand. What a bunch of losers. St. Pete? Hah. Tampa West. Or just Tampa. Just get it over with now. You are just a bunch of losers anyway.

[John]

Listen to your mayor:

Rays play in a great ballpark; what they need is our support
By RICK BAKER
Published March 19, 2005
St. Petersburg Times

The Times' recent series, What Went Wrong? 10 Years of Devil Rays Baseball, discussed the 10 years of experience since the awarding of a Major League Baseball team to St. Petersburg.

Tropicana Field provides a great home for Major League Baseball, today and into the future. It possesses functionality, comfort and good sight lines. Comments that Tropicana Field was already an old facility when the Devil Rays took to the field in 1998 are very misleading. Over 85-million new dollars were spent renovating the Trop just before the Rays' opening season, adding renovations identified by the team and Major League Baseball. To assert that it was a "10-year-old stadium" is comparable to saying that the Renaissance Vinoy Resort, which underwent a $93-million renovation in the early 1990s, was a 75-year-old, out-of-date hotel when it reopened. Just as the owners of the Vinoy Resort opened a newly restored modern hotel in 1992, the city of St. Petersburg delivered a great ballpark on opening day in 1998.

One of Tropicana Field's best selling points is its location in downtown St. Petersburg. It is surrounded on three sides by uncongested interstate highways and it has 7,000 on-site parking spaces and 25,000 parking spaces within a mile. In fact, in a Tampa Tribune editorial following the first week of the Rays' regular season in 1998, the newspaper concluded that the city can handle traffic. Cars moved swiftly along St. Petersburg's streets going to and coming home from the game. And there was plenty of parking.

As a testament to its accessibility and popularity with fans, Tropicana Field holds nine of the all-time top 10 NHL attendance records, the all-time Arena Football attendance record, the U.S. attendance record for Davis Cup tennis, and attendance records in Florida for the NBA and NCAA men's college basketball. Cirque du Soleil selected Tropicana Field as the location for its last two very successful touring shows to the region, and will return later this year. In 2000, Sports Travel, Inc., a sports marketing company, ranked Tropicana Field as the second most fan-friendly park in the major leagues in its 30 Ballpark Millennium Tour.

Similarly, downtown St. Petersburg may be the strongest destination on Florida's west coast, where 1.5-million people visit the Pier and 3-million people visit BayWalk each year. It is home to an internationally televised Grand Prix, art festivals, concerts in the park and museum exhibitions like the current "Monet's London" exhibition, "Diana: a Celebration," last year's Chihuly exhibition, or the blockbusters "Treasures of the Czars" and "Titanic." Indeed, in recent years, downtown St. Petersburg has emerged as one of Florida's most active entertainment destinations with more than 1,000 special events and attractions that draw nearly 10-million people annually.

The reality is that we have a great ballpark in a great location that is at the heart of the biggest and richest media market south of Atlanta. As we have seen with the Bucs and the Lightning, a winning team can generate excitement, attendance and revenue for a sports franchise in this region. We experienced a sample of the excitement Major League Baseball can bring to our community last year when the Rays had a 12-game winning streak, and drew nearly 70,000 fans for two weekday games with the New York Yankees in July.

I am confident that the Rays management and ownership intend to build a franchise that will succeed on the field. They are investing in their organization and are producing great young talent. I have heard manager Lou Piniella say on many occasions that a winning team will bring in the fans, just as it did for the Bucs and the Lightning. We all can help make this vision a reality by attending games and supporting the Rays as our home team. When we host our first playoff game, Tropicana Field will be sold out and the crowd noise from the fans cheering on the home team will provide a distinctive home-field advantage for the Rays.

Rick Baker is the mayor of St. Petersburg.