Times/Bay News 9 poll preview: Parking will be a huge problem, voters say

As debate rages over a proposed waterfront baseball stadium in St. Petersburg, most everyone agrees on one point: Downtown lacks the necessary parking.

According to an exclusive St. Petersburg Times/Bay News 9 poll to be released Sunday, 82 percent of the city's voters think parking would be a huge problem.

The poll, which surveyed 601 St. Petersburg voters May 27-28 and has a margin of error of plus or minus four percentage points, was aimed primarily at determining whether voters think the proposal should be placed on a November ballot, and whether they support a new stadium.

Check the St. Petersburg Times or Bay News 9 starting Sunday for stories detailing the results. On Monday, log on to the Times’ stadium blog, Ballpark Frankness, to see and comment on the poll results.

Comments

[Rays Fan]

There is a lack of adequate parking for a downtown stadium. Perhaps they can bus people from lots around the city?

I'm sick of hearing attendance is down at the Trop. I went to get tickets for the games this weekend and there was a line 20 deep and when I got to the window I couldn't get good seats because they're near sell out.

Shut up Rays owners and St. Pete Times - people go to the Trop, but you have to win.

[Dr_Dug]

Stand up St Pete... Our Mayor and Council have Rays t-shirts on under thier clothes. How many red signs does a bad deal need...? Take a drive around St.Pete and you'll see..!
NO NEW WATERFRONT STADIUM

[Steve Lange]

This is no surprise to those of us who have read and studied all of the parking reports and know the development codes as we do.

82% ???? I thought it might be higher.

(Thanks to the Times for performing this poll at this time and publishing the results "PRIOR" to June 5th. Thank you."

My question of the day for anyone to answer is:

The Rays intend to park 11,950 cars, off-site, in "shared parking". This includes, by a City parking code formula, around 330 Handicap Parking Spaces which must be placed within the same zoning designation as the new stadium, and that is DC-3, and these handicap spaces must be within 300 feet of the front door of the stadium.

Since no DC-3 zoning district lies west of First Street this is a huge problem for the Rays.

And since 330, 12' wide, handicap parking spaces with 5' wide side aisles will need approximately 3.3 acres of floor area or surface land located west of First Street the Rays will need to find, purchase and build a multi-story structured parking facility to meet this Federal and local requirement.

Here is the question:

Has anyone heard one peep out of the Rays on just how they are going to solve this problem let alone pay for it?

Not even our Mayor, can avoid, violate or excuse FEDERAL and STATE HANDICAP requirements.

Quite a dilema. Just how will the Rays propose to solve this one?

Aaron S.: Any thoughts?

[CraigJ]

Rays Fan, not sure what you mean by good seats near sell out?

Most of the seats at the Trop are good for the price.

If it was near sell out then there are about 20,000 people buying tickets and not showing up.

If you want to be a Rays Fan, buy season tickets or a package deal.

[Rex]

Why all the nay-sayers? Did anyone stop and wonder how the Saint Pete Grand Prix manages to accomodate 100,000 visitors every year? We went this year (on a Sat) - got in, parked, and left with ZERO problems.

Quit belly-aching already.

[Rays Fan]

Craig, just because one doesn't buy season tickets or package deals doesn't mean they don't show up. Most people's schedules are in the air. I prefer the flexibility of buying games when I know I'll be in town, as opposed to season tickets and not going to half of the games due to other committments.

We can't all be retired, go to 12:40 games, and plan our lives around baseball. Doesn't mean we're not supporting the team and going to games frequently.

[Ray F]

I agree.

I go to about 25+ games a year and I don't have season tickets. I go to most weekend series games and 7:10 starts during the week.

I don't think being a season ticket holder makes you more of a fan. That logic would alienate 99% of Red Sux/Stankee fans that have never stepped foot in Boston or New York, let alone own season tickets to their "home" team.

[gene]

Steve Lange's comments are right on target, but he is trying to be logical on a topic that defies all logic. How in the world this lame idea of a major league waterfront ballpark got this far is a poor reflection on our city and its "leaders". Develop the Trop site and send the Rays to Tampa!

[Russ]

Rex, that was on a weekend, with well orchestrated shuttle lots moving people around. The race was also spread out throught downtown instead of one singular destination block. Quit comparing apples to nightmares.

[Answer isn't in Tampa]

Moving the team to Tampa doesn't mean more people will show up. As it stands the Trop is very easy to get to with ample parking. Tampa is a nightmare to get to, especially by Ford Ampitheatre and Hard Rock. You'll alienate fans from Pinellas and further South. St. Pete attracts TRUE FANS from anywhere. Tampa is the pits.

[Ray F]

So... Russ,

Who's to say those same measures wouldn't be implemented for Rays' games?

[Russ]

Ray because they fact doesn't change that the race is a spread out event, and the Rays games are not. Are the Rays going to pay for said elaborate shuttle system? I highly doubt it.

[Not Rick K]

80% think the parking will suck...

2-1 against at the last council meeting.

Best record in baseball, worst in attendence....

7 in 10 voted against the last comparable waterfront land use change.

An unreasonable timetable for construction, and DEP breathing down your necks....

City Council, get the message yet?

[Ray F]

So,

You were all for public money going toward parking concessions for the Grand Prix?

Let's be fair. If I should have to pay for race fans to be shuttled around town, you shouldn't have any problem paying for it for Rays fans.

Goes both ways Russ.

Now you come back with, "that's one weekend compared to 81 games." and I say "but still, the question I posed to you was- Since I pay for the shuttles for your event, you should pay for shuttles for mine." and then you redirect me back to the lopsided event days and then I counter with the idea that if I have to pay for 81 days, you have to pay for 3 than. Then you "say, fine, I would pay for that." and I say, "fine, I would pay for the game day parking too then."

[John]

So, that's 82% +/- 4% that already have a pre-disposed belief that the parking will be a "nightmare".

These are the voters of St. Pete speaking loud and clear.

Please someone tell me how the Rays & their supporters of this sham are going to change enough minds in this city before November to change that percentage to a winning vote "for" a stadium with no parking lots?

Tell the Rays to go pound sand, and bring back Spring Training!!

[Ray F]

John,

If I went to 601 houses with Red signs and 601 houses with Blue signs, I would get completely skewed results. 601 random people do not accurately represent the city.

That's why we have elections that allow all who wish to voice their opinion to do so in a civil manner.

[Lies, damn lies, and statistics]

I love surveys - 82% of .0023% of the city's total population think parking is a problem. Wooooooo . . .

I'd wager that same percentage would describe the distance from their backdoor to the garbage can as "a long walk".

Plenty of parking, you just might have to walk several blocks past restaurants and bars, galleries and stores (which you might want to patronize) along the way.

[John]

Oh Ray, you're making sadder and sadder arguments. The poll was random, that's why there's a margin of error of 4 points. Do you understand how polls work?

You seem like a nice guy, you haven't attacked anyone too harshly on a personal level, and I respect that. I'm going to feel a little sad for you and your fellow supporters when this does eventually get shot down or abandoned, whether it be this Thursday, or at the TDC/BOCC meetings, or Aug 7th. Your side has a mountain to climb with only your bare hands and a prayer, and frankly, that's sad.

But I do hope you get on board with me when the Rays eventually skip town and help us lure a spring training team back to Al Lang.

[gary grooms]

The IRL race is a very valid comparison. The attendance for the IRL race itself has been quoted at between 50,000 to 75,000 people. Just to make the math easy let’s say there were 68,000 people –or double the size of a baseball sellout. When the checkered flag was waved at the race 68,000 essentially left the waterfront and went to their cars. Yes, they were more spread out – but their cars were in the same lots that would be used for baseball. If anything having the people more spread out would negatively impact the egress because people could get to their cars all at about the same time. On the very rare occurrence of a sold-out game that everyone stayed till the last out you would have 34,000 people get up and head to their cars at the same time. The egress for people walking out of the stadium creates a more metered arrival at the various lots.

The race was indeed on a Sunday – but most baseball games are played at night when the business centered lots have few cars in them. Simple economics tells you we have an abundance of parking. If parking was at a premium here it would be expensive to park.

If you haven’t seen the slide show I put together of parking and traffic related photos on the day of the race you can go to this link and take a look. Be aware that it is an 18 meg download. http://blogs.tampabay.com/ballpark/2008/05/fans-for-waterf.html

[John]

Yes but Gary, that flies in the face of your own fellow supporters who claim those 34,000 fans will NOT head to their cars, rather they'll make a bee-line for the bars & restaraunts to enrich all the local businesses. Isn't that why you guys want it even closer than it already is? Make up your mind, dude.

I talked to a friend in Chicago today who is a sports writer for the Chicago Tribune. You know what they're saying about us here in St. Pete? They're saying that St. Pete wants to spend a half billion dollars to move a perfectly good stadium 15 blocks, and they just think that's hilarious! We are the joke of the nation because we're never satisfied with what we ALREADY HAVE.

[Ray F]

John,

The poll is as random as you believe it is.

If I walked in to a mall and asked 601 "random" people their opinion on anything, those people aren't really "random". They are all people who happen to be close enough to me to participate in my survey.

Also,

The wording of the questions influences the answers the "random" people give.

Would you not agree that when someone explains something to you while nodding their head, you find yourself nodding your head as well?

There's no way to get a really accurate poll out of such a small sample.

[John]

Oh and Gary, I don't mean to correct you but most of the proposed Rays games will NOT be at NIGHT. They will be 7pm games, which is the evening, it's still sunny out, and this is the WOST time of day in the summer because of the T-storms. That is the time when people getting off work are still lingering downtown for happy hour or dinner, and when other residents come downtown for the same thing. So those lots are NOT empty. Not by a long shot. I only speak for myself, but you put the stadium on the waterfront and I'm not coming NEAR downtown on game nights to deal with that hassle, and those downtown businesses just lost my disposable income for that night. Instead I'll spend it in my neighborhood sports bar.

[CraigJ]

Guys, my comment to Rays Fan was about him not being able to get good seats on game day, that's bull unless it's the Yankees or Red Sox games, just buy them early, I don't have season tickets and I always get good seats on game day.

And no Rays Fan, I'm not retired, that's why I go to the box office or order tickets ahead of time when I don't have to work.

[John]

Ray, you're starting to sound like Hillary Clinton. To hell with the polls, or delagates, I WON!!!!

[Bill]

Parking is a non-issue. It will work out. Many downtown residents will walk to games. Look at other stadiums such as Fenway Park and Camden Yards - there's no parking there. People are making way too big a deal about this.

What about water taxis from Channelside to the Pier? What about closing 2nd Ave. S. on game nights and only allowing shuttle buses to games? There are solutions.