Waiting on the $$$$; looking for something to do

If you're like me, and do little else other than think about a new $450-million waterfront ballpark, the news that the Rays are finally going to release their financing plan Thursday feels like an early Christmas gift.

We'll see how much detail the Rays are going to present, how many local elected leaders come to Tropicana Field to hear the pitchm, and just how well or poorly the plan is received.

But while we wait, I wanted to let everyone know that a group called the African-American Voters Research and Education Committee is hosting a forum on the Rays plan at 7 p.m. Wednesday night. The forum is at the Enoch Davis Center, 1111 18th Avenue S, in St. Petersburg, and is open to the public.

Most of the big local politicos have been invited to attend, as has Rays senior vp Michael Kalt.

If you haven't yet, take time to vote in this week's poll question about Tropicana Field. We're sitting at 975 votes so far.

Comments

[get-smart]

AAron is Pete the Manatee invited to the Trop Thursday at noon.

[Murray]

My wife and I are season ticket holders who live in Charlotte County. We will see 60-70 games ourselves this year and sell the rest to friends.

If the new ballpark opens at the proposed site, we will be forced to drop our season tickets. It's a matter of practicality; parking will be far more difficult, and ingress and egress will take far more time. Currently we can get home from a weeknight game at about 11:30pm, making it possible to get to work the next day. With the new stadium's location, we just can't do it. If the Rays are interested in being a "regional" team, it would seem logical to make getting to the ballpark an easy proposition. Walking up to 3/4 mile to and from the stadium through city streets is certainly no easy proposition.

As to the outdoor nature of the stadium, the Florida Marlins' woeful attendance should be evidence enough of the difficulty of drawing Florida crowds to outdoor venues. And that's a team which has won two World Series.

As to management's statements that the outdoor venue will feel like parks in Baltimore, Kansas City, or St. Louis, I can only say that I've been to those parks...and they're miserable in the daytime and during early evening. On the last attempt at Busch Stadium (in early June), we were fully wilted by 8:30pm.

Almost all of the season ticket holders in our section feel exactly the same way and are regretfully planning to drop their season tickets in 2012...for exactly the same reasons.

We're not objecting to a new ballpark, just this one in the proposed location. The new owners have made great baseball moves, but I'm afraid that this one will be a $450 million mistake.

[Aaron Sharockman]

get-smart.

I think we could probably sell tickets for Pete the Manatee vs. Raymond in a 3-round steel cage match..... Money to benefit your favorite local charity, of course.

[Don Mott]

Hi Aaron, You previously mentioned that the release will be "preliminary" financing details. Do you have a clue as to when the full truth will come out? Are they still unsure of some of their finance options? I don't think they have a committment from the county yet, are there other questions as well that you know of or do we just need to wait and see?

[get-smart]

That would be good - SMACK DOWN - Pete's intro could be the song INAGADADIVIDA. It would be NEWS and you would be at the epicenter. Fifty years from now when they start taking again about a waterfront stadium they will be reading your articles.

[Aaron Sharockman]

Don Mott.

From what I've been told, preliminary means subject to change based on the wishes of the city and the county. If the city and county come back after Thursday and say, "you know, we'd like you to consider something different," I think the Rays would be open to that. That's why it's preliminary. I'm told whatever they propose will add up to the money needed to build a ballpark. Hope that helps.

[Don Mott]

Thanks Aaron, I misinterpreted the preliminary term as meaning something else.

[David]

"As to the outdoor nature of the stadium, the Florida Marlins' woeful attendance should be evidence enough of the difficulty of drawing Florida crowds to outdoor venues."

Interestingly enough, the Marlins actually outdraw the Rays based on stadium percentage. Dolphin Stadium holds around 5,000 less than the Trop. In the last 2 years the Marlins averaged under 2,000 less fans per game. In fact, according to espn.com, in 2007 they averaged less than 300 below the Rays.

If Florida's bad attendance figures are due to weather, what does that say about the Rays and their "woeful" attendance?

Florida Marlins, play outdoors, lousy attendance.
Tampa Bay Rays, play in 72 degree AC, lousy attendance.

"As to management's statements that the outdoor venue will feel like parks in Baltimore, Kansas City, or St. Louis, I can only say that I've been to those parks...and they're miserable in the daytime and during early evening. On the last attempt at Busch Stadium (in early June), we were fully wilted by 8:30pm."

Maybe its just you Murray. St. Louis has been in the Top 10 of total attendance since 2001. They've been in the Top 4 since last year. It might go back even prior to that but Im too lazy to look any further.

From 2001 to 2006 Baltimore averaged around 20,000 more per game than the Rays. Last year it was closer to 10,000 more. That's a lot of wilted fans.

Kansas City has its own issues drawing fans, but I don't know if battling the heat is really the reason. Even they outdraw the Rays. They had over 1,500,000 more fans go to games last year.

I'm not sure what a new stadium in any form will due for Rays attendance problems. Indoors or out, nothing cures these types of problems like winning. People will sit in the heat to watch a good product. Even Florida's attendance numbers spike when they're good.

All these numbers can be found at espn.com

[get-smart]

David you are too analytical. All of your common sense and good judgment will fall on deaf ears. When the pro-stadium side defends the character of the Rays owners, that speaks volumes to me. They are paid shills. I can understand taking a pro side if you have something to gain from it, but to defend these un-American, treasonous cretins is beyond me. The whole point of a Waterfront Stadium is pure GREED and EGO. That is it! Nothing more! The owners don't care about our country or St. Pete. They are cut from the same cloth as the criminal ex-governor of New York. Go Rays!

[Raymond the Rays Mascot]

@Don Mott, u didn't misinterpreted it, u r just a mis-informed, narrow minded piece of, now go back under your rock befor I eat u & then spit u out b/c the taste would be horrendous, but @least u would be gone for good.

Go Rays, playoffs here we come.

[Chuck]

A little pee came out when I read get-smart's post at 10:31. "Un-American treasonous cretins"...Hysterical.

As long as we're throwing out ridiculous statements like that, try this one on for size -

POWW finances terrorism.

[Rick K]

GetSmart, you are not the annointed one. It isn't up to you to tell us what the "whole (and only) point" of these proposals are.

The first point of this proposal is to put the Rays in a home ball park that they like better than their current home. This will help the Rays organization (and probably add to the revenue generated by the team). But that isn't the end of it.

I know you really want it to be. But your desperate fantasies have little to do with the rest of us.

For me these twin proposals are about giving the Rays a better place to play ball, giving the community a unique ball park that will most probably attract visitors to our community, creatively redeveloping a greatly underutilized part of downtown on the waterfront, and continuing to grow the resident population, shopping opportunities, diverse job base, and entertainment options downtown.

Along the path to this future, we get to eliminate an ugly eyesore in the heart of our community (the audacious Trop and its acres and acres of ugly asphalt) and enhance the "public usability" of the city's waterfront.

GetSmart, you can pretend that this issue is not about these things. You can pretend that all of us who embrace the vision of these projects are paid by whomever it is you imagine pays us.

But what you pretend matters little to the rest of us.

[Thomas]

Yep, stadium debates always seem to bring out the lowest common denominator.

I can understand skepticism but to blindly support or oppose the plan before getting the details is a bit foolish.

Also, Rays fans should understand that you can still be a diehard fan and support the team without endorsing a bad deal on a new stadium. You don't have to give back your Crawford jersey if the numbers don't add up tomorrow.

[Paul]

Thomas, its about alot more than just numbers. Its about scalability and interfering with an already successful downtown. The mega stadium does not fit in character, style or human scalability. It will dwarf the area and consume far too much of the available resources already used in our beautiful and successful downtown. By that, I mean parking, police, fire, ambulances, sanitation, logistics, noise, light, dollars being spent and the upper limit of just how many people can actually fit in downtown on a day/night with mutliple overlapping events. Don't screw up an already great thing. They got the Trop, work with it. Rebuild there.

[K]

I'm pretty sure I know who signs Rick K's paycheck every week ....