Gotta love our elected officials

Remember how we said last week that the city was moving back its second of three referendum related City Council votes back a week so that the County Commission could take up its piece of the pie first on July 22.

Well, my colleague Will Van Sant just informed me that the county will now push its decision on the bed tax back to Aug. 5, letting the city of St. Petersburg take the first step on July 24.

Is it pretty clear no one wants to be the first to vote up or down on this project?

Comments

[Bravo]

Another great update Aaron.

I agree, you gotta love the politicians.

[Clear Direction]

Aaron,

The BOCC will not have the Full Slate of Commissioners in attendance at it's next meeting (John Morroni will not be present).

Therefore, the BOCC has elected to Vote on August 5th when a full board is seated.

also, the TDC will hold a workshop on July 8th prior to making it's reccommendation to the BOCC on July 9th.

This thing will go down to the August 15th Wire!

[Everyone will be okay]

In the end, I can't see a majority of the County Commission or St Pete City Council standing in the way of letting the people decide. There is no sellable way to do that.

"We didn't think the people were smart enough."

"We thought the people were rushed."

"We thought there were too many unanswered questions."

None of those work to appease or satisfy the voters who want to vote. If people think the POWW folks are onrey when it comes to protectin' the waterfront, try messing with everyman's right to vote.

[since1962]

Aaron
Make a freedom of information request and MEASURE the stacks of correspondence each gov't entity has.
Highest stack MUST make the first leap.

KEEP THOSE "CARDS AND LETTERS" COMMING.

[Aaron Sharockman]

I've seen the city's stack (not the county's). If i had to guess, if you put it all in one pile, you're probably talking about four-to-five feet of stuff....

[That is not enough]

Five feet doesn't seem like enough, at this point.

Ha!

[since1962]

What a diversion from practical matters.
I for one will no longer contribute to that wasteful enterprise.

3 emails to city,
1 TDC,
2 BOCC
X~250,000
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jon McPhee]

Is it just my perception, or has the amount of content offering "the latest from the ongoing debate, focusing on the impact to taxpayers, the evolution of the Rays’ proposal and the politics unfolding behind the scenes" gotten very slim here?

I wonder if it is because... Well, I just wonder.

C'mon, Rick and Ray and Chuck, tell us why.

[Rays Mike]

Because it's 8 PM, and most of the antis are fast asleep on their green benches...

[Don in St. Pete]

Everyone will be okay, Sorry but you've got it all wrong. It's the City Council's job to ensure that if there are unanswered questions that this doesn't get to the ballot. They are in charge of the city purse strings and if the deal went bad their political careers and the solvency of our city could be at risk. That's why they continue to demand the facts and not the innuendo they have gotten to this point. The County must likewise decide if the economic impacts of the Rays directly benefit the County as a whole other than just St. Pete. If they didn't make a fact based decision they could be liable to recall.

[Commissioner Ken Welch]

Aaron - Clear Direction covered it - I would just add that since Commissioner Morroni will be out of town on July 22nd, our choice was either to vote on the extension of the bed tax with only 6 Commissioners on July 22nd, or schedule the vote for the next full board meeting in August. We opted for the latter.

Another note - Chairman Stewart informed the BoCC today that the TDC will workshop the Rays proposal on July 8th, with their vote expected on July 9th.

KT

[Cathy Wilson]

And do you suppose that, when the dust clears, the City Council will FINALLY allow us to vote on zoning for the AL Lang site or are we destined to go through this upheaval over and over (our own personal Groundhog Day) ad infinitum?

From statements already made by Council Chair Jamie Bennett, it seems likely they'll send us back to yet another pointless "visioning" session as if Vision 20/20, the new LDR process, the petitioning of Council by numerous speakers over several months, staff support and the last "visioning" session at the Mahaffey weren't enough. C'mon folks, the people have spoken and have been speaking for YEARS now. D'ya think maybe it's time to have that earwax professionally removed???

[Chip McMahan]

It looks like all the fans are fast asleep. Where is the cowbell crowd. Oh well the kids must have gone to bed early.
The content has gotten thin because there is a real fear of the backlash that has been set in motion. Maybe some folks think people will go on vacation or forget how silly this "thing" has gotten. But no, people are getting angry. Some of us thought this waterfront issue should have been resolved by now. People keep trying to rephrase the question of how they can make money off the waterfront property that belongs to everyone. They even think they can make more by dredging and filling. The waterfront and the bay is sacred. We can't make anymore. Making it accessible to an elite few is wrong. And trying to cram such a large structure on such a small piece of property is obscene. Our waterfront is not made that way, yet. St. Petersburg is OK the way it is. Growth does not have to be constant. This is not the Island of Manhattan, thank goodness. But folks from the North are still welcome. We don't care how you do things up north. This is the South and we like things just the way they are. We will share but stop trying to make things in your own vision.

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

While I must confess I have been less than pleased with the Mayor's leadership on this issue I am beginning to realize that it is the Rays who are greedy by any definition who are to blame for all of this. The Mayor's administration, staff,council, and the BOCC all want a way out of this nightmare without offending the 800 lb gorilla. A lot has been said about the fact that the city administration/council would give any 250 million dollar corporation careful consideration of a relocation request.
However let's all be honest here...it's the bread and circuses attitude of our populace that has enabled incredibly greedy owners and players to enrich themselves at taxpayer expense. As Tom Hanks once famously said, "They're's no crying in baseball" he could have added that there is also no rational reaction from a business standpoint to baseball.
Scott Kazmir does not NEED 10 million a year to live. A 22% increase in franchise value with a corresponding 15.5% increase in gross receipts in a single year should be plenty for any owner.
SRI the new corporation at USF got a total of 20 million from the state to bring high paying jobs with the potential for many spinoff benefits. There are things like the Standard Industrial Codes and North American Industrial Codes that measure job creation by industry. The PRO Sports subsidy crowd such as Rays'Mike wishes to label all the SCIENTIFIC economic research as some Anti propaganda...but Ray's Mike wants his baseball stadium and the facts be damned. Reminds one of the old Dire Strait's song..I want my MTV..I can hear it now...I want my..I want my..I want my stadium.
If the Tropicana site were a mini research complex with companies that provided high paying jobs the benefit to the city would be SOOO much greater than the Rays. But waahhhh I want my baseball stadium.

Yes there is no doubt government at all levels in this sordid affair is hoping for someone to do their dirty work for them. City administration and council waiting on the BOCC which is waiting on the TDC all hoping the other guy will end our ordeal. Well we're getting closer and closer to November. 68-19..the voters will do the dirty work.

[Rays Mike]

Is it greed, or jealousy, "truly"concerned? If you substituted "Jabil" for "Rays", and "new computer system" for "Kazmir", and Jabil said they needed tax breaks to build a new facility, or else they would have to move their operations out of the area, would you be as upset about all of this?

Baseball teams, as in any industy, has to be compared to it's peers. 15.5% increase in gross receipts? Sounds great!!! Oh, but compare their gross reciepts to other teams in MLB, and you will see that we are still at the very bottom. Some of it is out of our control: The Yankees, Red Sox, Mets all own TV networks in huge metropolitian markets, and the majority of their revenue comes from. But gate receipts can be increased, regardless of population. How? As I have said numerous times, by winning. But to maintain a winning ballclub, you have to spend money. Not the $35 million a year, but realistically in the $70 - $100 million range. Scott Kazmir makes $10 million a year (actually he doesn't, but unlike you guys, I understand your point.) Worth it? Propbably not. Does he need another 10 million to live? No. But that is the MARKET VALUE for pitchers. It's a f**** up world we live in where pitchers make 5000% more than firefighters, but it is what it is. So please stop with your assumptions that the ownership group is just greedy New Yorkers out to make a fst back, when there is ZERO indication that they intend to sell anytime soon (how many millions have they pumped so far into the Trop, taken the hit for free parking, increased payroll), and almost ZERO precidence of an ownership doing the same thing..

And once again...since when has a parking lot next to a minor league ballpark become "sacred?"

[Rays Mike]

"fst back" should be "fast buck." Sorry about that...

[Rays Mike]

Aaron - When is the next St. Pete Times poll? The last one now seems outdated, since there has been one city council vote, Rays concessions on the size of landfill, and the selection of a developer at the Trop site. We are not using poll numbers anymore that give Hillary the lead for the Democratic nomination! :-)

[Chris Jenkins]

If I were the County Commission, I'd be holding off too...when news like this is commonplace:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article629960.ece

[Rays Mike]

Why wait, when the costs of everything keeps going up?

[John]

Hey Chris,

Don't forget about this one too..

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/article629709.ece

Even Baywalk is struggling, but sure, let's add International Mall junior 16 blocks away and run Baywalk out of business. Great idea.

[Thomas]

You should put those stories next to those absurd first year projections for sales in the redeveloped Trop site.

We need a goofy Supporter to inform us all that if these "paired redevelopments" are built, people will just magically be able to start spending over $1M per day at the new mall.

Also, if this gets built it will rain puppies from the sky for sick children!

[Ray F]

to Jon McPhee @ 7:57pm

"gotten very slim here?
I wonder if it is because... Well, I just wonder.
C'mon, Rick and Ray and Chuck, tell us why."

I have a reason dummy... because we're actually baseball fans who are watching the Rays play against the Cubs... and from the stands, it seems like we weren't the only ones unconcerned with online bickering.

Unlike you anti's, we have way better things to do when we're not at work than blog about a baseball field.

[Rays Mike]

Did John miss this line in the article?

"Despite the uncertainties, event-filled weekends downtown and Tampa Bay Rays games bring customers and dollars, said Bruce Rabon, who owns Hurricane Pass and Metropolitan Outfitters, two BayWalk stores selling high-end men's fashions. "When there's traffic at BayWalk, my stores do well," Rabon said. "It's a remendously viable place. It's just going through growing pains."

[Rays Mike]

Did John miss this line in the article?

"Despite the uncertainties, event-filled weekends downtown and Tampa Bay Rays games bring customers and dollars, said Bruce Rabon, who owns Hurricane Pass and Metropolitan Outfitters, two BayWalk stores selling high-end men's fashions. "When there's traffic at BayWalk, my stores do well," Rabon said. "It's a remendously viable place. It's just going through growing pains."

[LOL @ Rays Mike]

Rays Mike apparently doesn't know what the term cannibalization means as it refers to retail.

[Sam]

Boy, I can not wait to have a Bass Pro Shops in downtown!

How the fresh-water angler survived this long without a Bass Pro Shop downtown is beyond me.

I really hope they put a Super Walmart at Eco-Verde as well.

That would be great.

[Rays Mike]

But I do know that when there is a Rays game, business is better for a downtown merchant - and the Trop is 16 blocks away from Baywalk.

[LOL @ Rays Mike]

Ray just proved the "ANTI'S" point!!!

The guy in the article said it himself. Rays fans are NOT deterred from coming downtown before or after a game to dine/shop because of the Trop's location!! Which negates the need to relocate the team!!

[Rays Mike]

The NEED to relocate the team is to generate more revenue for the team to compete on an annual basis. The BENEFITS of the relocation would be to INCREASE the foot traffic downtown to increase business downthere.. 30K a night is better than the AVERAGE of 19K that we are getting now...

[Ray F]

LOL,

It says, "when there is traffic at Baywalk, my stores do well" it specifically says "event filled weekends" as well.

I'm sure that means during the Grand Prix, Rib Fest, Vans Warped Tour, etc... his stores do well.

Imagine if just 25% of the Rays fans walked by his stores to get to the game or leave from the game.

Obviously, it's tough to refute that more foot traffic = more customers = more profit. There's no spin on the positive impact having the stadium closer to downtown will have on businesses there.

[Sam]

To Ray F at 11:17

Did you ever think those fans walking by Baywalk to a new stadium will only cancel out other shoppers/diners (the majority, that is, who are not baseball fans) who will refuse to come near downtown when there's a Rays game??

Two sides, my friend. Two sides.

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Ray's Mike,

I view Jabil as illustrating the point I was trying to make. If Jabil leaves town, that parking lot full of cars of our fellow citizens who are EARNING MONEY which in turn gets SPENT in OUR community thereby multiplying into more jobs..see SIC and NAIC numbers would have a REAL IMPACT. It wouldn't effect just the bread and circuses crowd. It doesn't go to 25 millionaires who do not live here with all the profit going to New York to be invested wherever the gain is the greatest. Listen I have nothing but respect for Stu Sternberg's money making skills. God bless him. I just don't wish to contribute to his fortune. There is such a preponderance of economic data from INDEPENDENT sources that even Mr. Kalt no longers tries to make any arguments about the value of the stadium to our economy. Their entire selling point has been the redevelopment of the Trop...which is a truly a separate issue. This is a huge part of the problem with these discussions. The Rays have wrapped many issues into their "paired proposal" as Rick K likes to call it.
Do they REALLY need a new stadium? WHERE should it be. HOW should we really redevelop the Trop..with more retail and 200K-600K condos or should we be out recruiting companies like Jabil or SRI or other research entities to pair with the new All Childrens hospital or Bayfront. These are all very legitimate questions that have been swept under the rug in the RUSH to give the Rays a new stadium.
As a former Television sportscaster I agree with your point about the Rays compared to all of MLB. However you are p&^%ing into the wind if you think you'll ever catch up to the Yankees or Sox with a new stadium. Visit Manhattan sometime..the upper east side..some of the most expensive real estate in the world..literally..and you'll see a huge Yankees gear shop. Can you begin to even IMAGINE the money that comes out of that. Add in the YES network in the nations number 1 TV market...we haven't even talked about the actual revenues from the stadium and the Yankees revenue stream dwarfs what the Rays could produce selling out every game...every suite of your new waterfront stadium. It's not my fault that baseball under Bud Selig has been so mismanaged that they caved to the players during the strike...unlike the NFL...and let things get totally out of control. Listen to me carefully...I am a baseball fan..not a fanatic..but a fan. I do NOT begrudge the players their HUGE salaries..if they EARN them.
Using an antitrust exemption to limit competition and then extort cities to subsidize their salaries is not EARNING IT.

[Rays Mike]

Sam - Are there now 30K people in downtown 81 nights a year who would be displaced by a baseball crowd?

[Ray F]

Sam,

Baseball games are 3 hours long usually 7-10/1030.

This means people will probably start going into the game at 615/630.

That leaves more than enough time for people who honestly despise large crowds (agoraphobia- is what it's called) to find enough time to get where they want to go and leave before they have to deal with their fear when the game starts to let out.

The rest of the normal people who can stand the rest of society will still go to their favorite places all the same.

[Rays Mike]

So the players are the only employees of the Rays? What about everyone in the team offices, not to mention all of the Trop workers? If you want to include only the players, there are still here at least 81 nights a year, most either renting or buying 2nd homes in the area, or staying at hotels (so they would be, in fact, paying for the new stadium! ha ha.) They are still paying their sales tax and utilizing local business when they are here..

[Ray F]

also Sam,

If you're one of those agoraphobics, maybe you would find some time during the 284 days there weren't games going on to get in and out of downtown before the next unbearable horde of people comes back.

You people make large crowds of people sound like swarms of locusts!

Are you insane?

Is it necessary for all shopping plazas to be as slow as the old Gateway Mall for it to be comfortable???

[Rays Mike]

And nobody is ever saying we will ever catch the Yanks or Sox in revenues and payroll. The goal should be not to have the 2nd lowest payroll, but, as I said before, be closer to the $70-$100 million range, where we can keep the homegrown talent that we have developed..

[Thomas]

Mike, it's not the public's responsibility to ensure revenues for the Rays.

And coincidently, it's not even a problem. The Rays rank 5th in MLB in operating income (Forbes). They have a sweetheart lease deal at the Trop - which even allows the team to realize revenue from non-MLB events. They also get a nice check from the Yankess, Mets, Red Sox from MLB revenue sharing program.

The Rays don't "need" a new stadium to be competitive. They "want" a new stadium - funded by public money - to double their franchise valuation.

The team can easily afford to keep all the young talent, and even free agent shop.

Get the story straight.

[Mal]

Ray F
Where are all these Baywalk customers going to park while ray's fans are at the proposed stadium?

[Rays Mike]

If I make $10, but spend $5, I have a bigger net income than someone who makes $100, but spends $97. But do I have a better product by spending $5 than my competitor who spends $97? Come on..... And that Forbes ranking does NOT include the revenue the Yankees make as an owner of the YES network, whose primary revenue is earned by broadcasting Yankee games...

[Thomas]

Um, yeah, that's nice.

The point was the Rays can easily afford to keep the talent they have plus sign free agents.

They have plenty of revenue/income.

Also, please note that when the team plays well, the Trop attendance goes up.

[Thomas]

I understand that the Rays will never make the kind of scratch the Yanks/Sox get from YES and NESN.

But crying poor is not accurate either.

Bottom line: The team has enough revenue and a sweetheart lease at the Trop right now. They can be "competitive" without a new stadium - paid for by the public.

[Ray F]

Mal,

Are you talking about the 284 days a year that there aren't games going on?

Because the way you sound, you wouldn't be caught dead going downtown if it was filled with Rays fans so you wouldn't have to worry about parking.

Maybe they can park at the Baywalk Parking Garage though if they did feel like going there during a game. Or maybe on the street near Baywalk. Maybe at the Parking Garage near Cafe Alma (i don't remember what street thats on sorry). Maybe the can have there car valet parked at the vinoy and take a Horse Carriage ride to Baywalk. Maybe they can park at the Pier Parking lots. Maybe along Beach Drive. Maybe they can pay me and they can park in my front lawn and I'll drive them to Baywalk myself.

So if parking is a terrible concern that it affects them going to a shop at Baywalk, maybe they can choose a different day to go there. I'm sure the greater number of people that were downtown for the game would be fine in Baywalk's eyes anyway.

[Ray F]

Mal,

Are you talking about the 284 days a year that there aren't games going on?

Because the way you sound, you wouldn't be caught dead going downtown if it was filled with Rays fans so you wouldn't have to worry about parking.

Maybe they can park at the Baywalk Parking Garage though if they did feel like going there during a game. Or maybe on the street near Baywalk. Maybe at the Parking Garage near Cafe Alma (i don't remember what street thats on sorry). Maybe the can have there car valet parked at the vinoy and take a Horse Carriage ride to Baywalk. Maybe they can park at the Pier Parking lots. Maybe along Beach Drive. Maybe they can pay me and they can park in my front lawn and I'll drive them to Baywalk myself.

So if parking is a terrible concern that it affects them going to a shop at Baywalk, maybe they can choose a different day to go there. I'm sure the greater number of people that were downtown for the game would be fine in Baywalk's eyes anyway.

[Rays Mike]

According to Forbes, their revenue last year was $138million - 29th in baseball. Their gate is only $24 million. Their payroll, including bonus and benefits, was $52million. Excluding bonuses and benefits, the payroll is $43million - 29th in baseball. Their net income was $29.7 million - take away revenue sharing of $20million, they would have made only $9million. So, if they reinvested their entire $29.7million back into payroll, they would STILL only be 20th in baseball in payroll - and 4th in their division. Please tell me where this extra money to pay for free agents is going to come from?

[Thomas]

Mike,

Are you really arguing that MLB - and it's record $6B annual revenues - needs public subsidies?

Are you totally mental?

The Rays can be "competitive" at the Trop and still make plenty of cash.

[Mal]

Ray F
I am a Rays fan. I think that the parking situation on game nights will make it very difficult to patronize downtown businesses. The garages you mention are part of the Ray's parking plan so unavailable to shoppers getting there after say 7:00. Your front yard sounds like a good idea. Do I have to call ahead or just self park and honk for service?

[Native]

thomas, the Rays will not be getting a nice check courtesy of the yankees, mets or redsox once their stadiums are complete....if you want to throw out points, throw out the complete point or fact

[Thomas]

The Red Sox are building a stadium? Hmmm, that doesnt sound right.

The revenue sharing may go down due to debt servicing on the the New York facilities. That is correct.

[Thomas]

Plus there's other side of the "new stadium to be competitive" argument.

How did those 'new stadiums to help us be competitive in a small market' work out in Cincinnati, Milwaukee, and Pittsburgh?

Did those teams increase payroll after they got free taxpayer funded stadiums and become more competitive?

The answers are NO, NO, and NO.

Meanwhile, how have the Marlins and A's done - playing in old football stadiums? How many World Series and Division Championships do those teams have?

It really is silly to pursue the "we need this to be competitive" angle as a reason to support the stadium.

[Ray F]

hahahaha Mal,

no- it's a first come first serve lot. Pull in if there's a spot. I may be able to open up overflow in the back yard for prime games.

[Thomas]

Dude,

Arguing that parking should stop the new stadium from being built is just as silly as arguing the team needs the stadium to be "competitive"

The parking will be fine. Relax.

(It's the financing that makes this deal horrible)

[XENU]

Xenu apologizes for not checking in. Xenu took vaction. Xenu find new, bigger cowbell. Xenu will bring you more cowbell now. All hail Xenu.

[Rays Mike]

Having a big payroll does not guarantee winning (ask the Yankees how many championships they have won this decade.) But it sure makes it easier to maintain competitiveness. You reference the Marlins. TWICE they loaded up on high priced free agents, won a world series, then TWICE dumped payroll the following year. No wonder that they have lower attendance and trust from their fans than we do. And 2 points about your "6B revenues" comment: 1) That is the entire industry's revenue - not the Tampa bay Rays revenues. 2) MLB's profit was "only" about $400 million.. - about the cost of ONE stadium.

[Thomas]

I understand that a big payroll does not guarantee anything.

BUT - I also understand that having a new stadium does not make a team "competitive" - see Brewers, Reds, Pirates.

So the arguement that the Rays "need" this new stadium to be competitive is totally baseless.

And that was the point.

[Rays Mike]

Cincinnati and Milwaukee's payroll each is over $74 million - increased payroll as a direct result of new stadiums (each TV market is smaller than Tampa Bay). Pittsburg, however, has a payroll of $48 million - and here is an article asking the same question:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07109/779299-63.stm

However, the Rays ownership has given ZERO indication, based on their track record since taking over, that they will pocket increased revenues in lieu of increased payroll. Examples: Being laughed at for signing Even Longoria to a long term deal after less than a month of experience. if anything, Rays management has made some shrewed moves signing players off the scrap heap (ex: Pena, Heinske), and have not been afraid to lock up guys long term that will have a long-term effect on the future of the team....

[Larry D. Beltz]

I hope that there's plenty of traffic in downtown when the stadium is built so that I'll have enough time to chase the ambulances going to Bayfront and St Anthony's

[Rays Mike]

Note: That article was written in 2007. I cited 2008 payroll numbers...

[Steve]

Does anyone know if they're planning to develop the land with any new bars once they drop The Trop???

[Ray F]

to Larry @ 2:21,

priceless. The people across the office looked at me like i was insane because I was cracking up.

ahhh, what a breath of fresh air.

[Ray F]

Thomas,

I don't know if the team ever said that they need the stadium to be "competitive". I think they cleverly use the term "viable".

They have lots of money, no doubt, to throw a slew of high priced free agents on the field for one year and then dump them after winning. Any team can do that.

[Thomas]

I was responding to Mikey:

"The NEED to relocate the team is to generate more revenue for the team to compete on an annual basis."
Posted by: Rays Mike | June 18, 2008 at 11:09 AM

It's not a valid reason to support the plan. But to each his own.

I agree that it was nails to lock up Evan to a long term deal - and not mess around with that "keep him in the minors to delay free agency" ploy.

[Rays Mike]

If you think that having a successful baseball team is good financially and emotionally for the city and county, then it is a valid reason to support the plan. If you don't, then it isn't.

[Goliath Davis]

Steve- Bars like the ones on 49th street north just south of Roosevelt maybe. Bring the prisons closer to the action. That way since they can't control the riff-raff at Baywalk, when they develop the Trop site they can be taken directly to Pinellas County Jail at Midtown. I have already negotiated this with the state. The NAACP and the UHURU's all support the plan. This will save hundreds in additional fuel charges. I am sure to get a state certified "GREEN" award to add to my already short resume.

[Thomas]

Mikey, are you mental?

There is no link between a successful team and a new stadium.

Put down the Kalt Kool-Aid for a minute.

If that was true, the World Series Champion list would include the Reds, Pirates, Brewers, Astros.

Teams like the A's, Twins, and Marlins would not be successful.

The team is playing better than ever right now - at the TROP.

[DooDoo Brown]

That crack aint gonna smoke itself!

[Omali Yeshitela]

I propose that the new stadium have a big, BLACK CowBell to accomodate all

Whatchoo think 'bout that Will Ferrell?

[Rays Mike]

Thomas - How many players have the A's, Marlins, Twins lost to free-agency or budget-induced trades because THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO KEEP THEM?? Yes, the Rays are playing great now - because everybody was either locked up earlyt at below-market value contracts (Evan, Kazmir), or not yet eligible for arbitration or free-agency (Navarro). BJ Upton and CC are not locked up long term. Without a new stadium, let's see if we will be able to match an offer from NY or Boston...

[Thomas]

Mike,

The public could built three new stadiums and still not retain the players. If the Yanks or Sox, Dodgers or Angels decide to back up the Brinks truck - it's over.

Note: that's not always so bad:

Pavano, Andruw Jones, Nomar, Lugo, Renteria, Giambi, Torii Hunter, JD Drew (until 10 days ago)

But anyway, the Rays make max revenue now at the Trop. Tell me, specifically, what is it that a new stadium is giving them - revenue wise - that they don't already get?

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Thomas,

You are dead on brother!!! We all know what it gets them...a whopping increase in franchise value..see Baltimore,Texas,Milwaukee etc. Alas a huge boost in franchise value only benefits the investor who owns the team. It doesn't show up as cash flow so there is no reason to think that long term it will benefit the fans in terms of more available bucks to spend on players. And Thomas you have touched on the crux of MLB's major problem. The NFL is GREAT because even tiny Green Bay can compete with the New York, Bostons,and Chicagos because of the salary cap. MLB will always have a competitive balance problem as long as cash flows of teams are dictated by market size. We can make fun of the Yankees and New Yorkers...but we have to give them props on one thing for sure...they have the LARGEST market in the country

[Colorado Snowbird]

Thomas is an economics savant.
No,he is an idiot. There are so many fallacies in his many plagiarized arguments, it's hard to know where to start. Thomas may believe the crap he spews here, but there is no reason the rest of us can recognize it for what it is, stinky feces. We are better off not having his crap in our lives. Thomas is afflicted with the worst type of ignorance. Blind ignorance. Not only does he have no idea what he is writing about, but he has no idea that he has no idea. He actually thinks he is brilliant.

This is precisely the type of garbage our community does not need. Thomas shares all sorts of statistics and studies, all of which he stole from other peoples' works, uses them out of context, and offers proofs that are defecient on their face.

[Rays Mike]

Thomas - That is the one question that if I could ask the Rays ownership and management, and I have posted it on here before: If the Trop can draw 30-35K a night (and if they remove the tarp from the upper rows of the 300 lvel, over 40k), can they earn the revenues to bring payroll to the $70 - 100 million level? My opinion is that a new, destination ballpark would make the 30-35K attendance a more common occurrance, even if the Yankees, Sox, Cubs aren't in town, and we aren't in first place..

[Rays Mike]

Thomas - That is the one question that if I could ask the Rays ownership and management, and I have posted it on here before: If the Trop can draw 30-35K a night (and if they remove the tarp from the upper rows of the 300 lvel, over 40k), can they earn the revenues to bring payroll to the $70 - 100 million level? My opinion is that a new, destination ballpark would make the 30-35K attendance a more common occurrance, even if the Yankees, Sox, Cubs aren't in town, and we aren't in first place..

[since1962]

BOCC Chair Bob Stewart and StPete councilman Herb Polson appearing on Bay News 9 POLITICAL CONNECTIONS today described the deal as: "on life support" and "floating in the water with a life preserver".

Stewart again suggested the Toytown site as part of it's planned recreational component.

BOTH MEN WERE INVOLVED IN THE LENGTHY PROCESS INVOLVING ORIGINAL DOME CONSTRUCTION AND FAULTED THIS PROCESS AND RUSHED TIMELINE.

[since1962]

An interview concerning this issue is available on Bright House 342. (POLITICAL CONNECTIONS June 22)

BOCC chair Bob Stewart makes 3 suggestions to Rays for accomplishing this:

1) BUILD POLITICAL SUPPORT

2) BETTER (non rushed)TIMELINE

3) VIABLE LOCATION (not waterfront)

Everyone posting here should at least hear what the chair of the BOCC has to say considering the 100 million being requested FROM THAT BODY.