Hines smackdown on city

I'm guessing this letter from Hines vice president Michael Harrison to city officials Dave Goodwin and Rick Mussett will officially end the POWW contention that the Tropicana RFP process was set up for Hines to win. Harrison, of course, is responding to the city's decision to recommend Archstone-Madison for the Tropicana redevelop. In the letter below, he's referencing specific portions of that recommendations. (The final paragraph is really a doozy).

"Gentlemen:

As you no doubt will appreciate, we are extremely disappointed with your joint recommendation to the Mayor and City Council.

It is unfortunate that the City and both of you personally emphasized from the beginning that it would run a "fair" RFP process and adhere to the requirements stated in the City issued RFP.  Unlike the other
proposers, Hines is the only developer that complied with the RFP and submitted a Fee Simple acquisition price with it's initial response on the March 18th deadline.  We are further the only developer that was short listed that has actually completed projects in Florida (along with actual experience with DRIs and CDDs, both of which are fundamental to the success of this project and unique to Florida) and LEED certified projects.  It is a shame that you list these requirements and then
discard them when it is convenient.

Your summary provided to the Mayor and City Council also appears to contain a few errors.  Among them, the Archstone proposal for the phase one land takedown is accurately stated as $15 million for 37 acres.

However, I believe this equates to a purchase price of $405,000 per acre, not the $555k shown in your summary. Also, I guess you did not deem it significant that the Mayor and City Council should know that if Archstone fails to close on Phase 2, you will have sold 50% of the site for 21% of their total purchase price.  This seems to significantly increase the potential risk to the City if Archstone fails to close on
Phase 2 (i.e. you gave up the best 50% of the site for 21% of the total proposed price and will potentially be left with the least valuable 50% of the land).

Lastly, we did in a clarifying email requested by David commit to posting the LOC (letter of credit) for the Trop Demolition at the Phase 1 closing, so this point is misstated as well.

We spent several hundred thousand dollars and thousands of man hours pursuing this project and are extremely disappointed by a recommendation that is simply not supported by facts or a fair process.  It does little to encourage Hines or other developers to pursue City sponsored projects
in the future.

Sincerely,

Michael

Michael T. Harrison
Senior Vice President
Hines

Comments

[John]

Smackdown is an understatement.

More proof that Rick Musset is a hack, in my opinion, and should be fired.

Will the Rays act like this when they get shot down??

Nah, they'll take it out on the fans by raising prices across the board. (Which they'd do in a new stadium, anyways).

[J]

What to think?

Is this just a letter from an upset vice president who lost out on a bid?(sour grapes)

Or a sign that all the attention that is being placed on this matter is causing those in charge of making the decisions to do so based on apperances or in the best interest of the city?

[Don Mott]

WOW! Was city staff blinded by numbers rather than checking facts? 50% of the property for 21% of the cost is extreme if it is true. It doesn't sound good for Mr. Mussett's reputation, or lack thereof. That's a big risk to take for proposed numbers without guarantees.

[Observer]

Hmmm. A company that has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and now lost out on the chance to earn millions on that investment is disappointed. Let those who used to claim that the fix was in now come forward with equally unsubstantiated lies!

[Ray F]

oh spin, spin, spin...

If they would've picked Hines, you would say they had Rick Musset and Rick Baker in their pockets.

Give it a rest. They picked Archstone-Madison- Deal with it.

Why be concerned over which developer they pick??? According to you anti's, the deal is dead anyway right???

Or is the look of progress starting to have you switching sides of the plate so you can swing from a different angle at the same ball???

[get-smart]

So what is the city going to do when Archstone bits the dust? Will they be on their knees to Hines?

I love it. The city staff gets chewed out by a salesman. Maybe this is part of the fix. "We lost but we got that one jab left." This is my kind of selling. A lesson to be learned.

This might be the cities reprieve to revisit the decision. But this time Hines has the upper hand.

If the Trop clean-up is just $93,000. put it in the contract and don't take no for an answer.

I say, have the city council end this nonsense at the next vote. If it goes to ballot it will be defeated resoundingly!

Cheers!

[since1962]

Aaron
This DEMANDS a full independent investigation by the paper AT LEAST.
The accusations leveled against the staff are one thing but these DEALS should have been scrutinized for these alleged purchase price discrepancies and comparative performance "disadvantages" LONG before NOW.
This rush and the lack of investigative reporting will be a much larger burden than Bay Plaza with longer lasting implications if we don't get it right.Tell us if it's sour grapes AND why. DO NOT present quotes from city staff as fact WITHOUT INVESTIGATION.

[Observer]

Since1962 is a very funny girl

[Rick K's new name is Sybil]

And Observer is Rick K's own personal internal cheerleader.

Aaron,

Do us all a favor and expose all of Rick K's assumed names, just like Troxler did?

He's not adding anything to this discussion anyways.

[Observer challenges sybil]

Why don't we do this, Sybil (poster at 5:36).

YOU identify all the people you think are actually Rick K.

We'll bet $500 each, for charity.

Then everyone will show up with ID proving they aren't all Rick K.

Like taking a rattle from a baby!

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Our area has a history of developments this size blowing up...Bay Plaza..Centro Ybor. The one argument I do not understand from the PRO's is the rush. This is over a billion dollars of OUR money. Can we at least take our time to made a proper decision. As already stated this proposal is dead at the ballot box..IF..it gets that far. Why did the Rays ram this down our throats in such hasty..and even a moron would have to admit..secretive fashion. What is wrong with proper due diligence. Why didn't the New Yorkers gauge the pulse of the community far better than they have...why did Stu Sternberg go with the kiddie corps to manage his investment in St. Petersburg. Why did he send down the overbearing, arrogant Michael Kalt to alienate the community. His condescending, supercilious style may be just the thing in New York, but it's not really appreciated outside of the Big Apple. A 107 million increase in infrastructure costs and a new request for 350 million on that billion dollar new Yankee stadium may be a pittance in the huge metro of New York...but a few hundred million here... a couple of a million there is REAL money down here in podunk!!! Mr Kalt has failed to be associated with even one stadium where projections were even REMOTELY accurate. Ohh I know..the cost of steel...the cost of cement..labor costs...someone broke wind when Mikey was crunching his numbers! Outside of Green Bay Wisconsin, where the citizens own their NFL team...can anybody send me to a hyperlink where a stadium actually cost what the owners projected? I mean REALLY who are the rubes here the Anti's or the Pro's who believe the projections of a man whose last two stadiums are grossly overbudget. And please do not tell me about the Rays guarantees of cost overruns...that is for the stadium..what about all the infrastructure? What about remediation at the Trop site?

[Clear Direction]

Aaron,

I beleive that many (including several council members who made inquires)were concerned that because Hines had been working with The Rays and the city for many of the 20 months that this project was being discussed in secret and prior to the City's official request for proposal that The Hines Group MAY have an unfair advantage in the Bid process.

in addition the Rays Website had information regarding the Proposed stadium and in a tab labled "DEVELOPER" Hines was the only developer listed.

Also the Rays had placed several Trade publication articles which mentioned Hines by name and stated that the project was going to be built, Never mentioning that any public input was required for the project to go forward.

Based on the above facts, I am not sure how you feel P.O.W.W. is the group which suggested that Hines was going to be the project's developer.

[Aaron Sharockman]

I think my feelings come from the press conference at the marina I attended in March where POWW said the process was set up to help Hines. We wrote a story about it.

Here's the story.

The group trying to stop the Tampa Bay Rays from building a $450-million waterfront stadium has accused team executives of illegally lobbying the City Council to support the plan.

Members of St. Pete Preserve Our Wallets and Waterfronts say the Rays broke city rules when they handed out T-shirts at a public hearing last month that referenced the Rays' Web site for the stadium proposal, www.majorleaguedowntown.com.

That Web site suggests Hines, the developer the Rays are working with on plans for Tropicana Field, already has been awarded the work - when in fact the city is in the middle of an open and competitive bidding process, said former City Council member, anti-stadium activist and lawyer Kathleen Ford.

The "process has been tainted," she wrote in a letter to the city.

Discussion of the Rays' proposal at the Governor's Baseball Dinner last week, and two references in trade magazines further circumvented the competitive bidding process, Ford said.

Anti-stadium activists are asking the city to reject Hines' bid or cancel the entire bidding process. City officials say that's unlikely to happen.

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Aaron,

You may be an all around nice guy and you may attempt to be a good journalist. Are you aware that your first article on Kalt was beyond a puff piece describing how you had a few beers with him at a Central Ave establishment after working hours.
Can you at least understand the APPEARANCE of favoratism that presents.
Why would you quote Bud Selig without also mentioning his record as an owner in Milwaukee. The fact that he said the same thing to them as he said to you about needing a stadium to compete, only to slash payroll and produce a team that lost more games in the first three years of the stadium than the 10 years preceding it. Seriously does than not deserve to be presented to provide a little context for Selig's statements?

Can you also understand that it is not just POWW people who think you've had a personal vendetta against them..from using Kalt's Darth Vader quotes and on and on. I can tell you as someone who attended a large N.A. meeting last night there is at least a PERCEPTION..(and honestly Aaron I think you're probably a nice guy and so I want to give you the benefit of the doubt) but there is at least a PERCEPTION that you dislike the POWW folks so much that it has slanted your reporting. Now I can readily admit that many ASSOCIATED with POWW have been strident at times because they are passionate about the city they love. You cannot let the remarks of a few represent an organization as large and DIVERSE as POWW. You could have pointed out that the carpenters were wrong..a very small percentage of POWW live on beach drive..yes the organizer director lives in Bayfront, but for every Bayfront resident there are dozens who don't live on Beach drive.

Can you cut POWW a little slack when you realize these are all VOLUNTEERS working for NOTHING other than their love of the city..up against your beer drinking buddy who is making hundreds of thousands of dollars for taking the time to have that beer with you, working for a corporation that will earn a quarter of a billion if they pull this off. I understand if you believe this is a good deal...but my heavens can you not at least feel some empathy for the underdog.

[Clear Direction]

See Aaron,

Your article supports my assertion that the RAY'S are the group who put it out in the public domaine that this was a done deal and that Hines was to be the developer.

(The Ray's) "website suggests Hines, the developer the Ray's are working with on plans for Tropicana Field, has already been awarded the work"

Thank you for the claification.

[Clear Direction]

See Aaron,

Your article supports my assertion that the RAY'S are the group who put it out in the public domaine that this was a done deal and that Hines was to be the developer.

(The Ray's) "website suggests Hines, the developer the Ray's are working with on plans for Tropicana Field, has already been awarded the work"

Thank you for the claification.

[That is what Ford Said]

Aaron reported what Ford said, I think.

[John]

Hey let's get the Rays in touch with Pinellas Park for a possible stadium there. The've got buckets of money apparently pouring out of every orifice, considering they just spent $89,000 for 14 palm trees.....

[Or]

Or we can let this come to a vote, as a reflection of the months of work expended so far by the Rays, various experts, and City, County and State staffers.

[Clear Direction]

Dear That is what Ford Said,

Aaron did not attribute that to Kathleen ( no Quotes).

Even if Ford did say that, Nowhere in Arron's story does he refute the fact that the Rays website has the devloper listed as Hines (and no one else) nor does he refute the fact that the Rays placed articles in Trade publications which indicate that the project is going to be built and they name hines as the developer.

So I beleive my assertion that the Ray's not P.O.W.W. are the group which promoted Hines as the de Facto developer is valid.

[Clear Direction]

Dear That is what Ford Said,

Aaron did not attribute that to Kathleen ( no Quotes).

Even if Ford did say that, Nowhere in Arron's story does he refute the fact that the Rays website has the devloper listed as Hines (and no one else) nor does he refute the fact that the Rays placed articles in Trade publications which indicate that the project is going to be built and they name hines as the developer.

So I beleive my assertion that the Ray's not P.O.W.W. are the group which promoted Hines as the de Facto developer is valid.

[OK]

Clear, it is obvious you will believe whatever you want to believe.

[Clear Direction]

Dear Ok,

I beleive what the facts suggest.

I would be pleased to defend my position should you have any facts to bring to the disscussion.

[JudyToo]

Aaron,
You are so transparent. Why would a cub reporter trying to get ahead make such stupid statements?

"I'm guessing this letter....will officially end the POWW contention that the Tropicana RFP process was set up for Hines to win."

Who cares what POWW people contended? You are supposedly reporting on a letter written by Hines which seems to illuminate some downsides in the A-M bid. What does POWW have to do with that story?

"We spent several hundred thousand dollars and thousands of man hours pursuing this project and are extremely disappointed by a recommendation that is simply not supported by facts or a fair process."

Our city officials and staff have also expended a lot of time (and therefore taxpayers' money) on a project that "is simply not supported by facts or a fair process."

And "Or" wants to vote? Vote on what? We have no qualified information that would allow us to vote intelligently...as has been repeatedly stated by City Council and even Mussett who continues to beg for "more time to gather the answers."

Everyone spent all this time and money coming up empty-handed, so we should honor them with a vote? What are we going to vote for? That's about as big an insult to a voter population as one might conceive: "here, go ahead and vote - just yes or no - and don't ask for answers because we don't have any."

Of course the Rays spent lots of time and money - they stand to gain the most out of the whole deal - a nice new stadium and an opportunity to sell for a huge profit and leave us holding the bag!

The real pity is that the city officials and staff allowed themselves to get entangled in all this mess before anyone could (or would) give them any usable information - lack of which holds true to this day, this minute.

By the way, which "experts" are we looking to for answers? The Rays financial experts? The developer's crystal ball experts on how the site will be developed over the next ten years? The city's toxic contamination experts who got us into the gas plant mess, the Azalea mess and now the Trop site again? The parking experts the Rays hired to tell us we don't have a parking problem downtown when another 12,000 cars try to get in all at once?

This is just another chapter in the saga of the Rays boondoggle. And it is costing us money and time better spent running a city with real life issues that need to be resolved - which is why we have city government. They are supposed to providing basic services for the benefit of all the citizens.

Let's just relax and let everything come together over time. Once we have the final-final from the Rays and A-M, then we should have an objective team of qualified experts (in all areas - finance, construction, demolition, environmental impact, risk analysis, traffic, parking, economic impact, etc., etc.) prepare a full report on what we might expect over the next 30-40 years.

Then we get to see it all at once with all the answers and an objective analysis so we know exactly what we are voting for or against. Is that so difficult?

Or maybe, just maybe, no one knows. In which case why are WE wasting all this time venting on Aaron's blog? I guess you could call it entertainment - and much cheaper than a Rays game!

[Judy Too, ummm, no.]

Judy Too, thank you for not reposting that string of ridiculous links to biased sources within the inbred community of rabid anti-stadium "academics."

If you take a deep breath, what you will see is that we will get to vote on the proposals that have been put forth thus far, minus all the misinformation and obstacles put up by POWW. Aaron's story about yet another POWW contention being swept aside as so much litter is relevant, particularly in these blogs, where POWW robots come to parrot the same misinformation and irrelevant distractions every day, no matter what.

We, the people are smart enough to sort through everything.

Judy Too, you may not have confidence in your own intellect, and some who read your stuff here understand that. But I believe in you.

[Don in St. Pete]

The poster @ 7:58 PM obviously has a severe case of cranial rectumitis. We should attempt to get him some help if he'll identify himself. What Judy said made perfect sense to those of us who are coherent, you listening 7:58? This whole debacle has so many twists and turns and political intrigue it's enough to make you puke. Nothing was handled right or in the Sunshine from the beginning which is an affront to the voters. The pressure on the city to diassociate themselves from the Hines bid ( because they were so strongly connected to the Rays ) left them on the outside looking in and they are understandably disturbed. I personally don't blame them since their's was the better bid though not quite so grandiose. Look at the simple fact A-M $12.xx per square foot to the city and Hines $20.xx per square foot. While the Archstone-Madison plans has Grand visions, there are no guarantees. the Hines bid had the deal done in 6 years and all money in, not 13. Any development over that proposed would pay the city the additional $20.++/ per square foot. That being said I am against the proposal to bui;ld a waterfront stadium at the Al Lang site. No Rays on the Bay!!!!!!!!!!

[Rays Mike]

How can one year from public announcement to referendum be considered "ramming it down our throats?" If $$ is your issue, then time is of the essence.. Every year that we wait, the total costs will only rise, whereever they end up building it.

[Don Mott]

7:58 is obviously RRRRick in one of his anonymous personalities

[Matthew]

Lehman owns Archstone-Madison. Here is a quote from today's New York Times. The url is below it. And this is a company we are trusting to build on the Trop site?

Richard S. Fuld Jr., the chief executive of Lehman Brothers, offered a spirited defense of his stewardship of the embattled investment bank on Monday, saying he was confident that Lehman was sound even as the bank posted a second-quarter loss of $2.8 billion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/business/17lehman.html?ref=todayspaper

[Ralph]

The Trop deal took several years to work out (even though it ended up costing way more than originally estimated). How can anyone expect a small city like St. Pete to figure out this complicated and convoluted proposal and put it up for referendum in 10 months?

[Get Smarter]

concerned citizen qoute "Can you cut POWW a little slack when you realize these are all VOLUNTEERS working for NOTHING other than their love of the city"

OK, because your a volunteer I guess its alright to spread Libelous lies about the city officials who's RFP and Bid record is pretty darn clean. Ford should be ashamed about those statements undermining those she wants to lead. Do I hear a apology, probably not.

It's not OK to do whatever it takes to get you "opinion" across.

[Don in St. Pete]

Get Snarter didn't take my advice and just got stupider. Who'd have figured with a name like that, that he would abandon all thoughts of logic or reason? There was nothing libelous about what Mrs. Ford presented. If you consider the parent company of one of the bidders having lost $2.8 billion dollars last quarter as being pretty clean then you clearly need your head examined. When you open you yap be prepared to back up your crap.

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Get Smarter,

If we really want to get to the beginning of the name calling we'd start way back when Michael Kalt accused Kathleen Ford of doing this because she wanted to run for Mayor. Aside from being absolutely incorrect what a horrible insult. Is Kalt suggesting that serving one's city as Mayor is wrong. Probably not. Is it right to infer then that Kalt was saying that Ms Ford was an opportunist?
This is amazing considering Mr Kalt is working for a huge salary while Ms Ford and others are working for FREE...for the love of a city Mr. Kalt knows little or nothing about and could care less about. He is a mercenary sent here to earn his masters a quarter of a billion in profit. (a conservative estimate based on historical precedent..Baltimore..Texas..Cleveland..
Milwaukee....) It's fine to support this project if you wish..we can have a difference of opinion...but it was MR KALT who injected the condescending..arrogant beyond belief attitude which has turned much of this discussion into useless name calling.
As for libeling city officials...it's not libel to simply point out that some of these same officials who are estimating 100,000 of remediation at the Trop originally came up with similar estimates only to end up with a bill over 5 million. One of these officials is the same man who was very involved with the Bay Plaza fiasco with all of those beautiful artist renderings that we see now from Archstone that cost citizens tens of millions of dollars. And of course the same man who bandied another set of artist renderings about the wonderful redevelopment that the Trop would bring. Funny but those renderings didn't include Ferg's. That's hardly a "pretty darn clean" record and it is FACT NOT OPINION.

[Getting Smarter]

Accusations of bid fixing or tampering are serious and illegal if true. To accuse people of illegal actions with no proof with the sole purpose of derailing a public RFP is libelous.

On your comments about Kalt starting the name calling....so therefor it OK to slander someone completely different than Kalt. If Ford had Slandered Kalt then fine but she didn't, she slandered public employs who make the same as you and I with little to gain in this race.

I'm sticking up for the city employees on this one. Development services wants this over as soon as possible. They are working twice the normal hours doing there own job and reviewing sections of the Rays proposal. Fords comments were low and not directed at the right people.

Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the motto.

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Actually Ms Ford's comments were not directed at staff. She served the city as a councilperson and developed friendships with staff she still maintains. I can understand if the Mayor was upset with her although she certainly didn't libel him. Her point was directed at the Rays and since Kalt is the point person at him. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the Rays put up a website with Hines listed as the developer, to advertise in trade magazines with Hines as the co-developer in the project...to see an article on the Yahoo website listing the Rays and Hines in a joint venture as if it were a done deal to at least question the legality or effectiveness of the RFP process. One would have to be an idiot or terribly naive not to wonder what was up? I agree with you the development staff get's largely scapegoated in these kinds of deals and personally I feel especially sorry for Dave Goodwin after the bitter response from Hines. The saddest part of this whole ordeal from my perspective is that staff, administration, and elected officials have been stressed to the max...and worse yet citizens have been turned against one another all because a 22% increase in value in a single year was not enough for the Rays. Mr Kalt has a track record. He worked for the city of New York before taking on the position of guiding those two MLB stadiums to fruition. He couldn't even get the numbers right in his OWN HOMETOWN!!! Infrastructure costs have gone through the ceiling and New York papers ran stories all this week about the Yankee's asking for yet ANOTHER 350 million dollars. The numbers associated with those two projects...both for citizen financed infrastructure as well as actual stadium costs are so WILDLY off target it truly bemuses me that some folks are willing to accept his biased drivel as fact yet are quick to jump on their fellow citizens for simply pointing to some historical precedents...such as Mr. Kalt's horrible record in these type deals.

[Getting Smarter]

The only way a RFP can be thrown out is if the City Staff participated therefore I don't understand why you think they are directed towards the Rays. This is what she was calling for.

The websites she listed are not advertisements. One is a bid service that is trying to predict future construction jobs for it's subscribers, the other is a green building site. This can not be used to say that the(city) not the Rays have made a back door deal with Hines. Why try to sugar coat this for her. She made even looser comments in the times as well. Just because she is also against the stadium doesn't mean you have to defend such behavior. If Kalt says runs over anti protesters I won't defend him.( I know a bit extreme comparison)

[JudyToo]

Dear Getting Smarter,

You should probably get some sleep. You are getting much stupider, not smarter.

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Getting Smarter,

I'm not trying to "sugar coat" it for her. The Rays OWN website listed Hines as the developer. The Yahoo story was not just fabricated..somebody in either the Rays or Hines PR dept had to place that story. Other developers who were interviewed about the process said that indeed the fact that the Rays listed Hines as their developer..stories on an international web portal listed the Rays and Hines as co-developers in the deal, had a very chilling effect on their response.
Let's put it this way...if you had a piece of property and articles ran in our newspaper, trade magazines, on YOUR website that getting smarter and contractor x were going to build a house...do you suppose other contractors would be in a rush to respond to your requests for a bid...if they thought it was a DONE deal. I'll leave it to Ms Ford to argue the legal points she is an attorney...I am not..I don't know about you. But surely common sense, along with the responses from interviews with other developers would indicate the city had a terribly flawed process that if nothing else at least gave the APPEARANCE of being a done deal with HINES.