Stadium Plan Delayed Indefinitely

Tampa Bay Rays president Matt Silverman talks with reporters at a press conference at the Valpak facility near Gandy Blvd. [Edmund D. Fountain, Times]

UPDATE (3:38) The conference just finished. Bay News 9 ended up not airing it live.

Rays President Matt Silverman is on TV now: "We are withdrawing our proposal and we will no longer be seeking a November referendum on a waterfront ballpark."

Why?

"There has not been sufficient support for the timelime that we put forth."

It is up to the community now to decide what to do about the stadium, Silverman says.

"Our discussion has brought us together despite our differences on many points...Today the Rays are passing the torch to the community and a new coalition."

"We are very optimistic that with the work of this community coalition that a plan will come together to keep Major League Baseball in St. Pete for years to come."

UPDATE (4 p.m.) Mayor Rick Baker is on TV now. He is praising the Rays' commitment to St. Petersburg.

Jeff Lyash, CEO of Progress Energy, will head up the community coalition on the stadium.

UPDATE ( 4:07) Lyash says he is excited to be involved.

"I have watched and listened and participated in the debate on the waterfront stadium over the last few months...I have been most impressed by the common ground that exists between all parties."

Lyash says the community needs to "step up its game" and support the Rays.

UPDATE (4:30) The Rays stadium proposal has been delayed indefinitely, not until 2010 as some elected officials said earlier today. Lyash's coalition will work to develop a new timeline.

-Cristina Silva, Times Staff Writer

Comments

[Ray F]

Does this mean Aaron won't have a job???

[Aaron's Agent]

5 more years of Ballpark Frankness!! Show us the money!!!

[Rays Mike]

Aaron hasn't demanded a new one yet, but he has said that his computer is good for 1 - 3 years.

[Jimbo]

Cristina,

Do you know if BayNews9.com will do a live stream? I'm at work and can't see BN9 on TV. My boss would kill me!

[Jimbo's Boss]

Get back to work or you're fired!

[Jimbo's Other Boss]

Watchin BayNews9 at work is the least of Jimbo's worries... he keeps forgetting the covers on his TPS Reports and, quite frankly, Lumberg is going to be pissed. Come next week, he can watch all the BayNews9 he wants from the comfort of his own couch.

[get-smart]

AAron and Howard -

I would like to propose on a Saturday or Sunday after the rethinking of the stadium proposal that we have a cook-out at Al Lang. I would think with your Times clout you can persuade the city to make it available. Very simple hamburgers & hot dogs bring your own food and side dishes. Everyone can donate a dollar or two to pay for the gas to those who volunteer to bring their BBQ grill. $5 each pays for the city clean-up.

[Jimbo]

LOL, a good comic release is what we all need from this saga. Glad I can provide once in a while ;-)

[Consultant to Jimbo's Bosses]

The real issue is Jimbo isn't being challenged enough. He has management potential dripping from every pore.

[ST Pete Steve]

I will not EVER vote for a new stadium. Doesn't matter now, or in 2010. Good Luck. I hope they move tomorrow

[Thomas]

A real straight shooter with upper management potential.

The pleasure was all on this side of the table.

I celebrate Michael Bolton's whole catalog.

[Rays Mike]

Did you get the memo, Jimbo?

[Manager at restaurant where Jimbo eats lunch]

He can always work here - provided he has sufficent pieces of flair.

[Thomas]

Rick K would be perfect as the "people person" who deals with the customers.

He can "Jump to Conclusions" pretty well also.

[John]

Rick K's currently busy, he's in a meeting with the Bobs

[Chuck]

St. Pete's darkest day. What a sad excuse of a city I was born and raised in.

Congrats kooks! With any luck the Rays will move to God's Toilet: Largo.

[Rays Mike]

I knew I should have worn more than 14 pieces of flair...

[Thomas]

PC LOAD STADIUM - what the hell does that mean?!?

[Ray F]

whoa, whoa, whoa... wait a second there professor.

I said we fixed "the glitch"... so it'll just work itself out.

You see, we like to avoid confrontation whenever possible.

[Thomas]

Chuck,

With all due respect, God's Toilet is Miami.

[Michael Bolton]

St. Pete Steve is a no-talent as$clown.

[The Boss]

Yeaaaaaaa . . .I'm going to need you to push your stadium back a couple years (slurp) we're using this area for storage.

[Ray F]

...and then this guy

Sameer Nagga... nagganaha... naga... ehhh not gonna work here anymore that's for sure anyway. He's gone.

[Thomas]

I'm thinking I might like that new Plan B financing. If things go well I might be showing it my O-face.

"Oh!"

You know what I'm talkin' about.

[Mark]

Looks like you've been missing a lot of work lately.

I wouldn't say I've been *missing* it, Bob.

[Colt]

Big New Yorkers thought they could come into our area and bully us into paying for their stadium. Sorry Boyz ..

They are fine where they are

[Michael Bolton]

Sentence St. Pete Steve to Federal P.M.I.T.A. Prison.

[Ray F]

...yeahhhhh, we're gonna have to ask you to move your stadium to storage "B"... we're gonna need this waterfront for more tree huggers that we're bringing in mmm-kay...

... oh and, you might wanna bring some bug spray 'cause they had a little POWW problem there recently...

Thaaaankss

[Demetrios]

Get-smart

Yes, let's have a cookout at Al Lang. I'll bring the tzaziki sauce and we can see how far I can shove it up your a.. you gutless bigot.

[John]

I'm buying Matt Silverman a Red Swingline Stapler

[Ray F]

... and there's still people posting about the topic... obviously these are people that takes their lives way too seriously.

[Beta Male]

ah yesh, i do belive the rays shtole my shtapler? it is a red swingline. it was a very good shtapler. have you sheen by shtapler?

[Which Demetrios?]

Is that Tarpon Demetrios or Rick K Demetrios?

Threats of violence are terms of service violations.

[Mike]

Who bullied who? The Rays came up with a plan for a new stadium and put it out there to gauge community interest. As the big NYer Silverman put it, community interest is not there for the timeline as it is currently. So they are going back to the drawing board with a more wide-ranging group of folks in on the design. I'm impressed with the Rays and the way they've handled this setback today. Very classy. Can't say that POWW is in that league right now.

You're typical of the ingenuous POWW folks, Colt. Really, who bullied who? This proposal was D.O.A. because of knee-jerks like you.

[Paper Anyone?]

I'm going to find all their staplers and put them in jello . . .oh wait, wrong office.

My bad.

[Ray F]

I think we can all agree that as long as they don't switch from the swingline stapler to the Boston stapler, we're fine.

cause BOSTON SUX!!!

[Chris Jenkins]

Great job, everyone, making our presence known, and voicing our concerns as a community. I hope to see you all again soon.

Everyone on here is welcome to email me at cjenkins@flmediasolutions.com

Hammer, I'd like to speak to especially, if you don't mind.

[Rays Mike]

Colt - just another example of a redneck xenophobe who cares more bout sticking it to the "carpetbaggers" than making an informed decision of what is best for the city.

[sv]

The St Pete community is a Joke. Move the Rays to Tampa, St Pete doesn't deserve a ball park. Just wait in 5 years the Rays will move out of Florida, and then St Pete will be nothing but a dead fish in the water. Its already a crap hole.

[Demetrios]

But it's ok to attack someones ethnicity and make claims to their sexual orientation. You know who you are and what rock you crawled out from under.

[Chris Jenkins]

You know what, sv? We think St. Pete is a vibrant town, with an active and evolving musical and artistic culture. If that's a crap hole, fair enough.

[John]

Let me be the first "ANTI" to say Kudos to the Rays for coming back to join the rest of us in reality.

Nothing at all wrong with taking our time to do this right, since we only get one shot to do so.

Like Sternberg said, "The Trop is not crumbling, it's cool in here, and the fans are enjoying themselves" so there is truly...NO RUSH.

Plus the Rays can blame the citizens now if this goes nowhere, which I doubt will be the case if they're sincere about this "plan B" coming to fruition.

[Dave]

This was actually a very classy move by the Rays. Now the facts can all come out and the positive impact for the city can be better explained.

[Ray F]

ok, ok, ok... you all got darringers... now put them away.

[Dave]

This was actually a very classy move by the Rays. Now the facts can all come out and the positive impact for the city can be better explained.

[Mark S]

Wow guys... Wow. Good job POWW, now we're back in the stoneage and the only thing St. Pete will be good for once the Rays leave will be providing a haven to the homeless. I honestly can't believe I live in this city with you people. Thanks for ruining my city you old farts

[Captain Positive]

Hi, I'm "sv" and I have nothing positive to say about anything so I'll just insult the city of St. Petersburg and use the fear of the team moving to motivate people into believing my rhetoric. ...and why not? Fear has been a great motivator for people in the past. Just look at our occupation of Iraq. That wouldn't have been possible if people weren't afraid of WMD's and Terrorists.

[Thomas]

"Just wait in 5 years the Rays will move out of Florida"

Um, no they wont. The City Attorney has clearly stated the lease runs through 2027 and is enforceable by injunction.

So put away your "that's it - they're leaving" doom sayer.

[The Bob]

So Jimbo,

What is it exactly that you DO here?

[Thomas]

"the only thing St. Pete will be good for once the Rays leave will be providing a haven to the homeless"

Well then why don't you get a head start and leave now.

Clown.

[Ira Rabinowitz]

laugh all you want to but the city won't like what happens next ... a Manhattan version of Deliverance

even Demetrios won't find it that comfortable

[Annette]

No sufficient support here; you can BET that they are "shopping" their big fat idea to another city...go Ed Armstong. You go get 'er done!

[Lumburg]

Mark S is a no-talent assclown...

[MoveTheDome.com]

Great job, Rays! Please, take your time and decide the best place to move the dome!

[Nathan]

Just opens the door for Tampa to makes its pitch. I hope we steal the team from St. Pete; Hillsborough will support the team, which will include (incidentally) attending games. Careful what you wish for, St. Pete.....

[Steve]

Now what am I going to do with my "No New Waterfront Stadium" sign? Guess I'll put it in the garage with my Whitted airport sign.

[Thomas]

I hope they shop it to Rapid City Iowa.

I always liked names that had the same letter in it.

Rapid City Rays!

Must be why I'm such a big Carl and Cindy Crawford fan.

[Thomas]

I hope they shop it to Rapid City Iowa.

I always liked names that had the same letter in it.

Rapid City Rays!

Must be why I'm such a big Carl and Cindy Crawford fan.

[sv]

All it takes is a little cash to break a lease. Seattle is paying 10m to break their "Lease" and move to Oklahoma City. You all live in a Fantasy world, you have no idea what a great asset the Rays are to your city. Lets see what brings in more revenue? A new museum or performing arts center or a new never seen before state of the art ballpark with a contending first place team. hmmmmm I wonder.

[JB]

It looks like thary are going to leave!

[Nathan]

"Um, no they wont. The City Attorney has clearly stated the lease runs through 2027 and is enforceable by injunction."

In other words, "we don't want you, but we won't let you leave, either." Do you seriously believe that if the City doesn't find a way to make this new stadium happen (and I hope they don't because St. Pete doesn't deserve a professional franchise), MLB is going to let the team languish in the Trop? Do you know anything about how the real world works?

[Ray F]

Well,

What next???

[CharlieRay]

I just hope that Progress Energy President Jeff Lyash will be smart enough to put some of his Energy into a real retractable domed roof with AIR CONDITIONING

[Alex]

Hey Mark S didn't call anyone else specifically a name... He called all of the people who just came in their pants when the Rays decided to wait on their proposal old farts, because they probably are... Stop being asses and argue the point: What will be the effects of the Rays' stadium being set back? And just so all you "preserve the waterfront" people know, baseball's been here for like 80 years on the waterfront. It's got history, merit, and the Rays have a great plan to invest IN OUR CITY... Why won't you let them do it?

[Dave]

If a city wanted the Rays enough, they could help buy St. Pete's contract. If Sternberg sold the Rays to someone who wanted to take the Rays to Las Vegas, it would be a real possibility in the future.

[Kenneth]

If Miami is God's toilet, Houston is his urinal.

Maybe to raise funds for the stadium we should take those fractions of a penny from millions of bank transactions that take place in St. Pete and put them into an account that we opened. Then the money "becomes ours". They did it in Super Man 3.

Sorry, couldn't pass up a chance to drop an OS line.

[Mark S]

thank god there are some sane people here... The Rays can leave whenever they want. It just takes money. I for one won't stand for a bunch of idiots standing up and kicking them out of our city when they're making St. Pete a better place by the day! We don't deserve a pro franchise. But we were one of the lucky 30 or so cities to get one, so let's make the best of it and market our city and our team with a new stadium!

[Ray F]

Nathan,

So you're telling me that the fine people of Hillsborough aren't going to leave a stadium dormant for nearly 20 years until the team wins right???

I seem to remember Tampa Stadium being pretty empty for a few years (20 i think) Until the Bucs started to win.

...but yeah Tampa knows all about supporting their teams right... sure. get over it.

[Nathan]

One last question: if you think the Rays are actually going to "delay" this vote, you're stupid. Period. Today's announcement was a polite one-finger salute from the Rays to the City and the knee-jerk, anti-stadium malcontents. You had your chance, St. Pete, and you hosed it up nicely.

Again, don't think for a second that (1) the Rays are staying in St. Pete; (2) the Rays are staying in the Trop; or (3) Tampa doesn't have a proposal ready, or near-ready, to pitch to the team.

And after the team moves to Tampa, you St. Pete guys will no doubt complain about having to trek across the Frankland to get to the games. To which we'll say, "didn't the team USED to be on your side of the bay?"

[Nathan]

Ray F: The team IS winning. The fans ARE NOT coming. They WILL come if the stadium is here. I'm right and you know it. Don't shoot the messenger.

[Ray F]

...and then we'd say, didn't you already try to have a professional soccer team before??? obviously Tampa loves her teams. Like an abusive husband loves his wife.

[Fred]

Remember today as the day we lost the Rays, they have every reason to leave. I love the team and attend many games. Hopefully we'll have a few years left, but each year it gets cheaper and cheaper for them to break the lease.

I wonder what the value of a big empty dome is??? St Pete will be the joke of Florida. Time to bring back the green bench...God's waiting room is back in business, Clearwater is now the premier city in Pinellas County!

[Todd Brasfield]

First, the opportunity to host a ML Baseball Team is currently a privilege that the city of St. Petersburg has, not a right. Second, anyone believing the Rays are legally required to stay in St Petersburg due to a lease agreement, simply do not understand that any lease or contract can be broken and/or negotiated out of. If the citizens of St. Petersburg are really OK with loosing the Rays to another city, then proceed as you have with the stadium stalemate. However, if you do begin to understand the positive socio economic impact the Rays have for St. Petersburg and you begin to want them again, and perhaps even want a winning team and a World Series, please reconsider getting a deal done today for a waterfront park. No matter how short sighed we all can be about things that cost a lot today, the current waterfront park, as designed, would be great for the citizens of St. Petersburg, for the Rays and for MLB.

[Ray F]

Nathan,

see Atlanta Braves circa 1990. They made it to the playoffs and were still only drawing 15,000 fans.

Then they started what some call a dynasty.

Winning brings fans... except in Tampa it took 20 years, at least it will only take the Burg 10.

I'm not shooting any messenger. Now that the Rays abandoned their plans and the team IS winning, the community will shift it's focus back on the Team rather than the stadium and those who were "Boycotting" rays games will start coming again and joins those of us who have been there all year. Of course you're more than welcome Nathan.

If you prefer to stay at home on the couch and watch on TV that's fine too.

[Chris Jenkins]

Jeez...what was that Rick Agnew phrase again? Nattering Naysaying Nabobs?

[Brent]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! We have the worse Stadium in Baseball... We need this and if anyone disagrees about us having the worse stadium has not been to any other Stadium. It looks like we play in Lowe's or Home Depot warehouse... SAD!!!!

[Nathan]

Ray F: Ooh, you got me there. Yes, professional soccer, like MLL, is going great-guns everywhere but here. Dude, NOBODY goes to soccer games except the Hispanic community. It's not racial; it's cultural. Hispanic kids who were born and raised here don't care any more about soccer than their "anglo," black, or Asian counterparts.

Now, as for support, the Bucs have done just about everything they could to alienate fans and there's still a season ticket waiting list. The Bolts we filling up the Forum at the end of the season LONG after we were mathematically eliminated. St. Pete pulls in 14,000 for a Friday night game when the team is 1.5 games out of first place in the ALE and in first place in the ALWC race. But, you're right, it's St. Pete that's the REAL town here. Please.

[Thomas]

"If Miami is God's toilet, Houston is his urinal"

That rules!

I'm going to miss this blog.

[Nathan]

Ray F: you're posts are so absurd they're not worth my time, but right now I'm bored, so here goes. The Braves STILL don't draw - have you noticed the empty seats at Braves playoff games? Rome regularly smacks Braves Fan for being too small and too disinterested.

As for the Trop all-of-the-sudden filling up because there was some "boycott" going on, you're joking, right? I mean, nobody who can log onto the Internet and type could be THAT stupid. At least I hope.

Look the bottom line is this: the Trop is PERCEIVED as a joke. In this world perception is reality. Fans are NOT coming to the games. I've been to a dozen or so this year and while there is more powder blue, it's on the same old attendees. If St. Pete wants to keep the team on its side of the bay, it will find a way to get this stadium done. If it doesn't, the team WILL move. You really cannot debate that point. So, Ray, my question is whether you support the new stadium and, if not, how can you honestly expect to keep the team?

[Thomas]

This was just too irresistible:
"anyone believing the Rays are legally required to stay in St Petersburg... simply do not understand that any lease .... can be broken.
If the citizens of St. Petersburg are really OK with loosing the Rays to another city"

I'm glad you did not "LOOSING" your legal handbook. Seriously, illiterate people should not give legal advice.

I love how all you blog lawyers disregard the input from the City Attorney. I'm going to say he's more qualified than you. Call me crazy.

[TechRider]

Welcome to the opening season of the 2012 Orlando Rays!

[John]

Nathan has apparantly attended the Rick K school of nihalism....

[Sea Dog]

Nathan, Tampa does not have a long history of supporting any sports. The Bucs had an empty stadium until they started winning. When they started winning, they built a fan base. Although they're no longer Tony Dungy's Bucs, they built their fan base over those winning years. It'll take a few more years of suckitude before the fans start abandoning them in droves. I for one know several peeople who have given up their Bucs season tix and it isn't as difficult to get into a game as it was a few years ago. The Rays have had 10 inept years and 1/2 a season of fantastic baseball. It was too soon to ask for a new ballpark. Fan bases don't get built overnight. I for one actually like the Trop. It used to feel like going to a funeral to watch a game there, but this year, it's been nothing but fun. I'd watch this team play in a softball field in a park, that's how good they are.

[Fred]

Way to go, St. Pete fuddy-duddies. Just get it over with and move the team to Tampa. St. Pete doesn't deserve America's pastime and most family-friendly and affordable pro sport. Enjoy the homeless and the crappiest building ever constructed...the Pier! St. Pete just went from major league to minor league.

[Nathan]

Nice use of the word nihilism, John. Look, I'm just a realist. And the reality is that the Rays are now officially shopping themselves to other cities and they'll be listening to proposals from Tampa and, yes, probably Orlando. They've drawn fairly well at Disney.

I realize my tone is dismissive and condescending, but you guys make it so easy. It's like a 3-2 fastball - I can't NOT hit it!

[Alex]

You forget one thing- the City of Tampa is BROKE. I mean near bankruptcy broke. This is because anyone with money lives outside of Tampa (Brandon, New Tampa). They can't build a stadium because nobody would dare buy one of their bonds!

[steve oneal]

"the rays have a great plan to invest in our city....Why won't yuo let them do it?". Because they wanted the people's money to do the investing and they get the profits.

[Thomas]

Dateline April 2, 2012:

Despite the predictions of numerous idiots posting on a message board in 2008, the defending World Champion Rays began their 15th Season in St. Pete today.

[Tuck]

Let's look at the facts. #1, the Rays were willing to put $150-million of their own money into building a new stadium.

Fact #2, the Rays have a lease to play in St. Pete, for another 19 years or so.

But, if another city, say Las Vegas, is willing to build a stadium on it's own to attract the Rays, then it would make perfect financial sense for the Rays to pack up and move, if they can break their lease for less than $150-million.

I'm guessing that it wouldn't cost anywhere near that much money to break the lease.

I feel so sorry for the fans and for the people who worked so hard, for so many years to get MLB here in St. Pete.

The opponents of the new stadium idea should be ashamed of the way they conducted themselves. Instead of working for a compromise and introducing new ideas, they flooded this town with pessimism, finger-pointing, and outlandish remarks.

This day may end up being historically bad for St. Pete, Pinellas County, and the whole Tampa Bay area.

[Rays Mike]

Some leap from a colition created of St. Pete and Pinellas County governmental and business leaders to them moving to Orlando. (If you can't get one sellout in three games at a spring training park in Orlando, I would hardly call that "drawing fairly well.")

[Nathan]

Here's the deal, Sea Dog, the Trop is actually not bad. But it says "baseball" the way Paris Hilton says "talent." What you're saying, in essences, is that Tampa's not as good a sports town, and St. Pete's not as bad a sports town as I say. Fair enough. But the numbers - as the ARE, not how they MIGHT be, support me. As they say, my friend, "scoreboard." Tampa 2, St. Pete 0.

[LOL @ Tampons]

Let's call them the Tampa Submariners, because you're need a submarine to get to a freaking game in Tampa during the summer because half the streets are flooded.

Nice drainage system you've got there, folks. You've been trying to fix that problem for what, the last 30 years?

Steinbrenner will let the Rays move to Tampa just as soon as he moves the Yankees to North Dakota.

[John]

I smell Rick K

Tuck, is that you?

[Thomas]

Hey Nate,

Just for fun, why don't you tell us all how Orlando going to come up with the dough to build a stadium?

Please be specific.

Enlighten us all on how Orlando is going to have cash to build the Rays a stadium when they just bonded out a $1.2B venues project.

[Nathan]

So, Thomas, when your optimistic beat column proves false, can I get my apology in the form of a beer? In the Tampa stadium the Rays have moved into?

[Thomas]

The Rays are locked in through 2027.

If there was another city willing to pay for a stadium, the Marlins would have relocated 8 years ago. There are no viable options.

Relocation is the pooh - so take a big whiff.

[John]

I bet Wengay Newton is embarrased for opening his big mouth about "Oh, they're just postponing until 2010"....

To borrow a phrase from Thomas,

Come next election....BOOM!! Outta here.

[Don Mott]

Quote by Nathan; "They've drawn fairly well at Disney" Wow dude you have just shown your ignorance. The Rays drew less than 10,000 at 3 separate games. Do you really think that will support a MLB team?

[Thomas]

Dude, Tampa is broke. They cant float the bonds for another stadium.

Maybe if Glazer didn't abuse the public so badly, you'd have a point. But he did - so you don't.

You can keep stomping your feet and telling everyone the sky is falling though. It's amusing.

[coincidence?]

Hmm, Trox takes a short recess and the state announces the biggest deal in their history to preserve the Everglades (something it appears only Crist could do) and then the Rays announce they no longer seeking a vote for a stadium ... Talk about good timing of his absence!! Seems ripe for a conspiracy theory

[Nathan]

Thomas, you know as well as I do that real-world financial dealings get done on the backs of politicos and influence. Don't tell me about the financial health of City A or the bond woes of City B. If the "powers that be" want it done, it'll get done. A little thing like financial uncertainty is never going to get in the way of a new stadium. Personally, I think the Rays knew the people of St. Pete would react how they did and, frankly, are relieved. Now, the Rays can say, "look, we tried and the city shot us down - the public sentiment was overwhelmingly negative, so we abandoned the plan to stay in St. Pete and explored other options." It's beauty. The people of St. Pete get credit for driving the team away and the team gets sympathy and tax breaks from the towns the come-a-courtin'. Them's some smart fellas that own that team.

[get-smart]

St. Petersburg, Florida - The Birth Place of National Airlines and the Devil Rays Baseball Team.

[Nathan]

Don Mott: OK, time to move on and I'll stop being polite - you're an idiot. The Rays are not FROM Orlando, yet they drew 10K fans. Yes, moron, I'd say that's drawing "fairly well" since the city has NO reason to otherwise support the team. You mental midgets have a nice night. Enjoy the game and try to get to one in person before the team moves. Freaking simpletons. Nothing like coming to these boards for a reminder of why I left St. Pete.

[John]

We're glad you left, Nathan, our collective IQ skyrocketed after you did so.

Good riddance.

[Dave in St Pete]

Yeah, I'd say your rude enough for Tampa.

[Kim]

Good buy Rays. You have a contract until 2027. Ha Ha Ha. Then you can go go go.

[Thomas]

Would that be the same "sympathy" and "tax breaks" the Marlins got any of the half dozen times they threatened to leave Miami.

No one lined up for the Marlins. No one is lining up for the Rays.

Plus the city has that nice lease through 2027.

Boom - Outta Here.

[Jack]

I don't understand people in SP. You are angry that Tampa fans WANT the team? You are the ones telling them to fly a kite. Evidently, 80 year olds are like 8 year olds...I don't want to play with the ball, but I don't want anyone else to either...waaaawaaaawaaaa.

By the way, SPT report a week ago said 1/2 Rays tix sales come from Hills. They also said the bolts have 21K per game. Where do you think they will be more successful?

[Tampa Smoker]

This is why St Pete will always be Tampa's weakling little sister; RayJay is first class, SPTimes Arena is better than average and Legions Field is top notch for a spring training/minor league stadium. (even though I hate the Yankees) Didn't Tampa steal your Arena Football Team too, that's low. The Trop will go back to being the worlds largest flea market and the Contending Rays will move into an awesome water front baseball stadium near downtown/channelside in Tampa. Go Rays! What a bunch of shoe clerks in the Burg!

[Tampa Sucks]

Jack, fix your crumbling roads and flooded summertime streets in Tampa, and after you spend that billion or so to bring you up to 20th century infrustructure, give Silverman a call.

It's like driving through a 3rd world country over there. Tampa already owes me 2 complete suspension kits for my car. Pay up.

Here's your new slogan in the meantime:

"Tampa, pothole capital of the world"

[Dave W]

Brilliant! Someone wants to invest in St. Pete, and you shoot it down!

[Tampa Sucks]

Anyone know how much one of them Channelside condos that are all essentially empty go for these days?

"I'd like a nice view of a rusty phosphate tanker and a shipyard with my $500,000 condo please"

Hang on, Steinbrenner on line two, and he sounds REAL pissed about this talk about moving the Rays to Tampa....brb.

[TS]

Tampa Sucks?? Suspension kits! too funny, did it bust up your neon light undercarriage kit too! The pot holes are bad, but better than dodging the bullets from the gun packing high school dropouts on every corner in St Pete - there are more gats than diplomas in most neighborhoods!

[Tampa Sucks]

Maybe you Tampons can even get Joe Redner to sponsor another Trolley that failed, to shuttle people to the games....BRILLIANT!

[Steve]

Unreal! I have lived here all of my life and so many here just don't get it.
If the Rays ever did leave the area, guess who will have to pick up the slack for the absence of the revenue the Rays brought this area...the taxpayers. And it will be more than what this stadium would cost. Do all of you "NO NEW WATERFRONT STADIUM" folks know what your tax dollars are going to right this moment? Do your homework. Simple education on government spending and economics are needed badly for many in my home town.

[JH]

quote,"Jeff Lyash, CEO of Progress Energy, will head up the community coalition on the stadium."
_____________________________________

lol... I love it when some fat cat millionaire from the local 'good ole boy network', is appointed to lead something which is supposedly going to 'represent the community's interests'...lol

Like we can't figure out the conclusion that the purported 'blue ribbon panel' this guy will be in charge of will arrive at?

Here's an educated guess at what they will say, "Taxpayers should give the Rays lots of money for a new stadium, even though they're not even done paying lots of money for the first new stadium. It doesn't matter where it's built, so long as the Rays get lots of free money from taxpayers in the deal"

[Don Mott]

Steve, Since you are so knowledgable maybe you can can show us the figures of which you speak.

[mike]

sucks that they will form a committee to water down a beautiful plan and location

[JudyToo]

My goodness, that's a lot of whine. This blog reads like those columns where they ask pre-schoolers to write letters to Santa or Dear Abby. How cute!

Read 'em again and you will see what I mean. The only ones that make sense are the Rays and the POWWers that be.

So much whine, so little cheese, but certainly very cheesy.

Grow up, boys. Learn how to accept reality like real men.

And go back to work!

[LP]

Now introducing your Las Vegas Rays!!

[Ray of Sunshine]

Kudos to the Rays for deciding to drop back and punt on this one. It was apparent there weren't sufficient answers to the questions about parking, funding, etc. so it was best to further study the issue than doom it to defeat at this point. I love the Rays and have been a season ticket holder since Day One and salute Sternberg for the job he has done in transforming this moribund franchise into a vibrant exciting team and venue. In fact, I'm afraid the Rays' success has undermined their arguments about the need for a new waterfront stadium. I've always said that a winning team on the field would solve the attendance problems. And despite the fact that school just got out, gas is expensive, the economy sucks and it takes awhile for a buzz to build, the Rays have seen a 40% increase in attendance. Last weekend while the thunderstorms raged outside and the temperature approached 100 we were quite happy in the Trop. There's nothing wrong with the Trop. Put a huge picture window above the outfield seats to create a little outside ambience and it would be perfect. The Rays are winning, the Trop is comfortable, life is good, enjoy it. And you Tampons get off your butts and drive across the bridge to catch a game.

[Emabarassed]

The bulk of loud mouths posting here are absolute idiots. Do you have any idea the impact (not just finacially( that a Major League team has on a city? What a bunch of losers. You never got picked to play in school - so now your having your day. Don't you feel like maybe your missing out on something special? We are bleesed to be one of 3o cities in America to have a MLB team. Do you get that? What if Tampa pulled this crap with the Bucs - and they "looked at alternatives" How about the Las Vegas Buccaneers? Nice ring to it.

I honestly feel sorry for you all - pathetic belly achers.

[Kenneth]

The GOP has already purchased a list of stadium supporters - they figure that if you believe that a new stadium would have any positive economic effect on St. Pete, you might also buy into the idea of a quick, 30-day ground war to liberate Iran. Check your inbox.

[Leo]

Hey!
Why was my comment removed??
No vulgarity..just factual..

Be careful of analyzing this site.
Someone is skewing the responses
Wimps!!

[Frank]

From the start this has been a ploy by Tampa to steal the team from St. Petersburg. They were behind putting this issue on the table knowing how the people feel about the Waterfront in our community.

[Colt]

Listen these owners are not classy, they realized that they got caught trying to sneak this vote in and that we do not want to pay for a New Stadium. We dont need one. They just spent $10,000,000 fixing up the Dome. They did not have all the answers and the New York LOSERS got caught with their pants down..Try again in a few years. PLUS, if these clowns want to move because their feelings are hurt then take the team and leave. That will just about cement what alot of us Smart people knew.. They are here just to Fleece our town

[Saint Pete]

Let them go to Tampa - honestly the Rays deserve more class than this...

Sad sad sad

[Colt]

Colt - this is not "your town" just because you have a big mouth.

There are alot, I mean alot of people like me and my friends who are educated, well compensated, and politically active. Just because you live in a trailer that doesn't make you the voice of the people.

[Bottom Line]

Well the good news is Saint Pete (God's Waiting Room) gets younger everyday...

There are alot of proggresive educated citizens around. They just need to speak up! Don't be bullied by these negative complainers. Baeball is a great game, and I am proud to have an you exciting team in my backyard.

GO RAYS!!

[ron]

Congrats St.Pete now you'll never be a REAL city! You just lost what could have been the best thing that ever happened to your downtown.

[Pete Bauer]

Just another dodge. I'm telling you this is just a diversion. They, (Republicans/Chamber of Commerce/Rick B & Co.) will be back. Just regrouping until they come up with another phony plan/scam.

[anne]

they tried the front door.. and didn't
get in.... that doesn't me they aren't
gonna try the side and back doors...
THEY have not given up...I assure you...

[Amanda]

The ever-growing young community (20-and 30-somethings) of St. Petersburg is banging it's collective head on the wall today. Phenomenal job, you stubborn relics. Thanks a lot. It's been fun, Rays...

[Chris Jenkins]

Amanda, you seem to completely discount all of us 20 and 30 somethings who have been driving to keep this deal from being foisted on us without true due diligence.

This has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with a portion of the population willing to take large corporate interests at their word, and a larger portion of the population who had seen too many previous "big deals" go sour to be able to sit quietly while this one played out.

[Steven]

Well St. Pete go screw yourself! I hate you Fing old people. I hope your social security get canceled soon so you can die very soon. Thanks for f ing up your own city. Have fun with the Trop and Al Lang rotting in your city forever.

[Steve]

Since the people in this community (St. Pete, Tampa)don't care anyway about the team then hopefully they can sell the team again to an outside group that can move them to a city that may appreciate them especially now that they're winning..Then everyone can wine AFTER they're gone about the fact they left. HEY!! WAKE UP!!! Pull your heads out of your butts and do something to keep the team or NOT..I live near Memphis now and we'd LOVE to have the Rays up here..Keep helping us out. Don't know what ya got till it's gone.

[get-smart]

There are Baseball Players
There are Baseball Team Owners
There are Baseball Team Fans

Only one of the three has any loyalty
You Select -

[Micah Mills]

That poll at the top needs to have the option of moving the dome.

[Bob]

Fire up the moving trucks...vegas here they come...good riddnes....what does the commiss have to say now about the trop...since his MLB team just threw in the towel....bush leage

[Amanda Hit the Target]

Yes Amanda - You are correct. The vast majority of 20 to 30 aged citizens will agree. We are trying desperately to break out of this Saint Pete steretype of a boring, blue haired, Buick driving community.

DO NOT LET A FEW RUIN THIS.

Be progressive -and don't give up. Stay positive, not bogged down in mis-information and negativity.

To be first class, we need to start acting first class.

Chris Jenkins - Go play Bingo the night is early loser.

[Voice of Reason]

I have neighbors like most of these posters. They are old and dissapointed. Their lives did not turn out quite the way they had hoped. They moved here from some cold place and expected a better life. Turns out when you are miserable - it doesnn't matter where you live. No matter where you go - there you are (inside yourself).

So they come and go, get the mail, and complain about the weather. Bottom line - they are unhappy people.

When something like this comes up (or Baywalk, etc) they are quick to complain. They absolutely hate things that make "other people" happy.

They are miserable- why shouldn't everyone else be?

It is a sad way to approch life - but it is the reality of the type of people who are attracted to Florida. Why do you think there is some wierd Florida related story in the national headlines every day??

My message to you? Cheer Up. Get on board, or get out of the way. You want sunshine? move to Arizona - lots of issues for you to take up.

I heaard they are people running around naked...Gasp.

[colt]

What dont you guys get.. The NEW YORKERS QUIT! They didnt even give you guys a chance to vote.. WHY? Because they were not READY! It has nothing to do with us. They QUIT on you ST. PETE.. dont be mad at the people.. I bet the Vote would have gone through.. There is something else going on here. Trust me on this one

[Matthew]

Why are so many of you upset? The Rays don't have a problem why do you? They are winning in the Trop, thus they don't need a new stadium to win. Fans are loving the ac in this horrible heat and cover from the rain and they're not complaining. In fact they are coming out in huge numbers. The Rays just faced the fact that their proposal was a very unpopular one with most people - including members of the Council, the TDC, the Co. Board and most taxpayers. They did the smart thing: pull back and cut losses. Now....speaking of losses, I hope they will pay back the city for the thousands of dollars they forced us to spend on this transparent scam to rob the people of both their waterfront and their money.

[Nathan]

So, Trop supporters, do you really think the team stays if there is no new stadium? Do you really think the lease is some Kevlar device that cannot be broken (or simply waived by the City)? Come on, you're really good at telling us how stupid we are for supporting a new stadium (or a move to Tampa), how about you tell us how this team stays by maintaining the status quo?

[Spin it, spinster]

Rick K has indeed been a busy little bee this afternoon.

[Steve]

Amazing. Take away the public trough and listen to the pigs squeal.

[Nathan]

In case nobody noticed it's 14-0 down in Miami after a 10-run inning. Seems to me ownership has lived up to its promise to field a good team. And St. Petersburg, with its provincialism and populist hatred for public financing of pro sports, says "thanks" by telling the team "the ugliest, most maligned stadium in baseball is good enough for you." Aside from the a/c, is the Trop anything other than super-max prison with fake grass? Seriously, it really is a visual abortion.

[Dave in St Pete]

Rick / Nathan,

Isn't it past your bed time? At the very lease I am sure you've been on the computer longer than any reasonable parent would allow.

So go brush your teeth, say your prayers and turn out the lights.

[Joey]

Way to go you crotchety NIMBYs. Now we get to watch a winning team play in a warehouse for the foreseeable future.

So, now we get to have an abandoned ballpark on the water - now THAT'S useful, isn't?

Or maybe we can build more condos for people to speculate on - there's a fantastic idea.

We had an idea on the table that would have been a gem to the waterfront, but unfortunately it seems like some people are just to dimwitted to accept change once in a while.

At least we kept the airport open.

[Chris]

I agree with Nathan. All this means is that they will look for a new city to put there team in. One that actually supports there local professional teams and will build a new stadium and not leave them in the worst stadium in MLB. I have been deployed for half of the season and I think I have attended more games than most of you.

[Dave in St Pete]

Chris,

First and most important, Thank you for your service.

I believe there will be a new stadium in the near future. Just not on the waterfront at not as that deal was written.

[Nathan]

Did I touch a nerve, Dave? Or is it that you're only happy when your fellow mental Pygmies nod and "hrumph" in approval of every pearl of wisdom you share through your Keyboard of Truth?

Seriously, what are you ardent stadium opponents REALLY opposed to? Public financing? Here's a clue; the public finances EVERYTHING in one way or another. Millionaires didn't get where they are by betting with their own money. Sorry, but that's the way of the world and all you foot-stomping and yard signs are not going to change it. You'll just be an occasional fly in the ointment, but nothing more.

[Dave in St Pete]

Nathan,

Did you read and comprehend my post at 9:24?

[Nathan]

I realize asking for legitimate, thoughtful responses is pointless, but here goes: Let's begin with the premise that the Trop is NOT an acceptable home for the team. So don't bring that up. Now, assuming the Trop is unacceptable, where does the team play? I don't hear anything from stadium opponents but "stay in the Trop." That's not an option. Period. If you think that's even in the realm of possibilities, I'd like to sell you some real estate (before Tally buys it all up).

[Dave in St Pete]

Nathan,

I do not propose to speak for all of those that did not want a waterfront stadium. Only for myself.

[Spin it, Spinster]

Yeah....Rick K's been really, really busy tonight....good work!

[Dom]

Al Lang is dead in more ways than one. Now on to Toytown!

[Nathan]

Yes, Dave, I did read and understand it. Well, what there was of it. All you did was thank Chris for his military service and posit that there will be a new stadium somewhere, just not on the water. My point to you is that if it's not on the water in St. Pete, it may as well be in Tampa. Clearly, St. Pete in and of itself is no draw. A waterfront stadium would be a national showpiece and MLB would fall over itself to put an All Star game here. I simply don't understand the opposition to the deal that died today.

Oh, and BTW, I'm not going to engage in a flaming match with you. You disagree with me? Fine; articulate how and why I'm wrong.

[Rick K]

I have not been on these posts today, whoever you are, but I do support the new plan B iniative before us to keep the Rays in Pinellas. I still think there can be a paired redevelopment proposal, we just need to find a way around the referendum issue.

[Nathan]

Dear Spin it: What the F!#@ are you talking about?

[Dave in St Pete]

How and why your wrong? Well, the most obvious is you state opinion as fact. To wit; "My point to you is that if it's not on the water in St. Pete, it may as well be in Tampa. Clearly, St. Pete in and of itself is no draw."

[Spin it, spinster]

Nathan what the F$*k do care what I'm talking about? Is your name Rick K? Then don't worry about it, jackalope

[mp]

Rays 14- Marlins 1... You incoherent, argumentative, obtuse idiots begged for a team and now you are incapable of doing the right thing. More attendance, more businesses, more parking tickets, etc., means more money for the community. It is the economic circle of life. Development is not the enemy- older esidents only interested in their personal well being as opposed to that of the community are the real criminals. And, before stating that you DO have the community's best interest at heart- please leave the earth now. The ANTIS were far worse than the ambush by the Rays. Every complaint yopu present has a slant on the truth, with you folks. You drove the issue into the ground mercilessly w/o even attempting to find a solution.

PS Exceptions to all rules- I do not think either side of this was handled well, but I feel that we deserved the opportunity to at least vote on "A" proposal with our fellow citizens. If it wasn't worthwhile- we should have the right to choose democratically. Congratulations on your victory...

[Nathan]

How is that opinion, Dave? Where are the big crowds that were going to stroll Central Avenue before and after games? I went to dinner at a Thai restaurant 3 blocks from the Trop after a Saturday night game and we were the only diners in the place. Look, I remember well St. Pete selling the idea of the Trop by saying the entire Central corridor would be this thriving commercial and entertainment draw that would compliment the team. My point is that it's not happening. The people at the games are there ONLY for the games. You want a freaking poll to prove that? You know it's true. If the stadium is built on the water (where it SHOULD have been built to begin with) there's at least a better chance that people who enjoy the view, the sun, the unique atmosphere of that stadium would go to games. If there's nothing unique about the stadium, it should be in Tampa, not because Tampa's a better sports town, but because it's the geographic center of the metroplex. Or is that opinion, too?

[Nathan]

Certainly, Spin it, you're right. You're an idiot, but you're correct; I am not "Rick K."

[LMFAO @ Nathan]

Nathan said:

"The people at the games are there ONLY for the games."

Which proves we need better access by putting it at Toytown, since nobody is patronizing downtown now, what's a few blocks going to do besides drive away the rest of the people who aren't baseball fans from going downtown on game night!!

Morons....

[Spin it, Spinster]

Spin it, how am I an idiot? You're new here, so you have no idea who Rick K is....why are you so defensive that you're "certainly" not Rick K....

Rick, grow a pair...you've been flushed out like a Thanksgiving turkey...

BAHAHAHAHAHA...it's like shooting ducks in an arcade...too funny!!

[Nathan]

Dear LMFAO @ Nathan: I can die a complete and happy person - I have my own Hate Club.

BTW, if it's not on the waterfront in St. Pete (whether at the proposed location or at the miserable, useless airport), put it in Tampa. Tampa is the geographic center of the suburban sprawl that is "Tampa Bay."

[Dave in St Pete]

"How is that opinion, Dave? Where are the big crowds that were going to stroll Central Avenue before and after games?" Again, opinion.

I see that you do know the difference; "Look, I remember well St. Pete selling the idea of the Trop by saying the entire Central corridor would be this thriving commercial and entertainment draw that would compliment the team. My point is that it's not happening." but for some reason you seem to think only yours are correct or fact.

Fact is that as of this moment the waterfront IS still on the table. It is my OPINION that if it is repackaged and presented once again as the ONLY option it will fail. Now if it is presented as one of several options in a referendum, who knows.

[Spin it, Spinster]

Make that last post directed to Nathan, not myself...sorry for the confusion...as if nobody attempts to do THAT here...

[Don Mott]

Nathan...errr....Rick spinning and going haywire. Grow up and get a life.

[Chris]

I think that a waterfront stadium is the way to go. Look at the Giants, that stadium is on the water and I know I have attended games there just to see the stadium and I know others that have done the same.

[Nathan]

From the brilliant mind of Spin it:

"BAHAHAHAHAHA...it's like shooting ducks in an arcade...too funny!!"

Shoot away, nimrod. Shoot away.

[Rays Fan]

Once again Miami takes the lead in the state and solidifies the financing and approval for a new baseball stadium. Once again Tampa/St Pete plays second fiddle and cant make a committment to a promising proposal that will energize the youth and invigorate the old. Thats why we should call the West Coast the Old Coast(same ideas)?? What do people think, that tourism is not important to this area? There is no silicon valley, wall street,or major industrial commerce here( are call centers industrial commerce?)--oops thats the midwest. We should take advantage of opportunities that are few and far between. We have a unique and exceptional window to energize the area and everyone just wants to argue---are we gonna get busy dying or get busy living????

[Spin it, Spinster]

Rays Fan, you need help moving to Miami??

[Spin it, Spinster]

Glad you're back, Rick/Nathan/100 other fake names....

We missed your drunken comedy in the evenings....we'll see the sober Rick K tomorrow, along with Demetrios, Observer, Truth Detector, etc etc etc etc, yay?

[Nathan]

And what exactly did I say to offend your delicate sensibilities, Mr. Mott? Not that I really care, just figured I'd ask.

Now, Dave, you and I might actually be able to have a grown-ups' discussion under the right circumstances (this probably ain't it). My question to you is, assuming the team is to stay in St. Petersburg, what other "option" do is really viable if NOT the waterfront? I'm not being rhetorical, I seriously want to know, because I personally don't see any other place. Again, like a broken record, if it's not on the waterfront, put it in Tampa and get Pinellas, eastern Hillsborough, Manatee, and some more Polka and Orlando fans.

[Nathan]

Well, Spin it, at least you amuse yourself. Everyone needs a hobby, I suppose. Have you considered making an original point (that would be one you come up with all by your lonesome) or do you trade solely in petty insults and juvenile criticisms?

[Dave in St Pete]

I think we should do as was originally proposed those many years ago.

Build a new stadium at the Trop site. Then tear down the dome, put in parking garages, shopping, housing etc. and bring that area to life.

[Don Mott]

Rays Fan I asked you before to show us some numbers that prove the Rays being here increased tourism, if you can't please stop spouting lies.

[Spin it, Spinster]

No Rick, I'm just here to piss you off and call shenanigns when I see them.

[since 1962]

MOVE ON!!!!!

THE QUESTIONS NOW...

WHERE?

WHEN?

MONEY?

[Spin it, Spinster]

But Rick, you were funnier with your 1000 word manifestos about how these "paired redevelopment propsals" would solve all our problems...I almost miss it...I'm getting misty...

[Nathan]

Why thanks, Dave. I disagree, but it's a legit proposal and there are several selling points. Access is easy and plenty of parking.

It's just opinion, but it's my opinion, that it's a waste of a resource like the waterfront to put a new stadium on the Trop site. The stadium would not deny anyone access to the water (any more than the yacht club and the endless sailboat docks already do) and I'm betting it (along with a winning team) would be featured on a lot more ESPN and Fox games. That's a huge intangible that you really can't put a price on.

[Nathan]

No Rick, I'm just here to piss you off and call shenanigns when I see them.
_____________

What "shenanigans" have I engaged in? Saying something you disagree with? Oh, and I'd have to give a f!@# about your opinion to let it piss me off. But, by all means, if it makes you happy, have at it.

[OTOWN]

Dont be sad Tampa Bay fans, but u r losing ur team... The Rays are coming to Orlando, we already have a proposal in place right by the Convention Center. Like u fools in Southwest FL do not understand Baseball in Florida does not work outdoors in the Summertime. Ur idea of an outdoor stadium is about as smart as drafting Bo Jackson 1st in the NFL Draft after he said he was going to play baseball. Oh wait maybe u guys are that stupid. Enjoy the ride up I-4 to our retractable dome stadium...

[Nathan]

15-3 over the fish. Nicely done, even for a laugher.

[Spin it, Spinster]

Ok I will, thanks, Rick/Nathan/Rays Fan/Demetrious/Observer/Truth Detector/MP/Joey/Steve/Steve F and however other aliases you subscribe to.

Ahh but the stadium WOULD have CLOSED BAYSHORE during games and other "events" thus denying access to BOTH the waterfront AND OUR ROADWAY SYSTEM.

[Nathan]

From Spin it:

"Ok I will, thanks, Rick/Nathan/Rays Fan/Demetrious/Observer/Truth Detector/MP/Joey/Steve/Steve F and however other aliases you subscribe to."
_________________

Dude, you really are a freaking tool. I have neither the time nor the energy to post under "aliases." Keep up the work, though, you'll be funny. One day. Maybe. On second thought....

[Nathan]

"Ahh but the stadium WOULD have CLOSED BAYSHORE during games and other "events" thus denying access to BOTH the waterfront AND OUR ROADWAY SYSTEM."
____________

You mean the same "road system" that gets about 8 cars a day? That road system? Wow.

[Dom]

The Marlins are sinking. The Rays are probably the best chance of keeping MLB in Florida. And I want to watch them right here in Pinellas county. Hasn't anybody noticed how we've been losing spring training teams? Find a solution and soon.

[jason jdawg25]

Lyash's admonition for St. Petersburg to "step up its game and support the Rays" is offensive. I'm sure a lot of people would like to show support via season ticket purchases, or even attend a few single games, if they could afford to do so. As one of the highest paid local execs(Lyash, $2.5M, as per forbes.com exec profile FY 2007), Lyash should be held to a higher standard of community relations. Florida Progress/FL Power/Progress Energy has long been an avid pillar of St. Petersburg. Lyash should study the community leadership skills of some of the gentlemen that preceded him.

[Spin it, Spinster]

Exactly Nathan K...that "road system" that puts St Pete on the televisions of people all over the world for the Grand Pix, who've stated "that road" is crucial to the track. St. Pete is known as the "Monaco" of the U.S. because of that exposure, and it's got nothing to do with a giant sailboat. There ARE more things to do around here than slug $8 beers at a ballgame once or twice a week.

We don't need no stinkin' Grand Prix though, because 81 home games for the Rays, 16 blocks closer, for a half billion dollars of taxpayer money UP FRONT via bonds, where NOBODY guarantees to "pay it back", makes MUCH more sense.

Knock the outfield wall of the Trop out and replace it with plexiglass, so you can find something else to look at besides the baseball game. Or take a Ritalin and simma down nah.

Manatee sammich, anyone?

Spin it - you're the guy that laughs at his own jokes. It's clear now why you spend your time mocking others; you can't come up with a single, worthy thought of your own, so putting down others is the next best thing, I suppose. BTW, please tell me what undertaking comes with a guarantee. Everything in life is a risk. That's how you get rewards. You want a risk-free, cost-free solution. Guess what, genius, that's never gonna happen.

Oh, when you get around to it, please clarify you