Flight of fancy?

St. Petersburg-Clearwater airport managers have commissioned a study of height restrictions around the airport to see if they would allow a baseball stadium to be built on the 99-acre Airco Golf Course on the southeast corner of airport land, Pinellas County Commissioner Bob Stewart said this week.

Stewart, who is pushing for a Gateway location for any new Rays stadium, is not advocating for the Airco site. His favorite is still the old Toytown landfill. Airco could have all sorts of complications (ever tried driving Ulmerton at rush hour?)

But if the 60 feet of coffee grounds and Pampers cooking away under the Toytown should make it impossible to build there, any publicly-owned land in the area becomes more attractive.

A story Wednesday in the Pinellas editions of the St. Petersburg Times will examine other Gateway sites, however improbable.

--Stephen Nohlgren

 

 

Comments

[get-smart]

The Collect Call - July 1,2008 - 13:21
--------------------

MK - RRRRRRIIINNNNGGGGGGG! Yes Sir, this is Mikey. I was just thinking about calling you, Sir!

SS - Hey! Mikey, How about those Rays! I believe we can win the pennant this year, Mikey. I just feel it!

MK - Yes Sir! Me Too! Everybody is just stoked around here. The team and the fans are going nuts and we have a full house too, Sir.

SS - Great to hear. How is everything going since I left? Any progress with a new stadium location? Has the local committee formed to figure out what to do next?

Mk - Not really sir. Nothing is going to happen for at least two years, sir. You were here. You know the situation.

SS - Two years .. is there anything we can do to get things rolling sooner ...A commitment or something?

MK - This year is out and next year St Pete has their big city wide elections. They will be voting for a new mayor and four or five council members. I don't have to tell you what the debate will be, besides the stadium committee will be comprised of a bunch of blow-hards with jobs. There is no community leadership for a new stadium as of yet.

SS - Oy vey! .. those pishers are a bunch of putzes. Talking about it makes me meshuggener. Enough of this crap.. the reason I called you Mikey was to invite you to the Hampton House this weekend. You know the Fourth of July ... come on up Thursday and stay the weekend.

MK - Well, thank you very much. I'll see you Thursday Stu.

SS - Oh yeah, bring that shiksa with you. I want to see her in a bikini.

MK - Will do, see you Thursday Stu.

Click!

-

[Abe Rabinowitz]

These caricatures of Jews makes me sick to my stomach!

[Get Smarter]

Is there anyone that Get Smart doesn't make sick to there stomach?

[Mal]

We know that wasn't the real get smart just a lousy attempt to smear him/her.

[Susie Q]

Remember, all of those pampers and coffee grounds at Toytown sit on top of a very thick layer of clay 30 - 40 feet thick. This is huge.

This clay layer was part of the reason Toytown was selected in the beginning as a landfill location because it traps liquid pullutants from passing down into the aquafer, etc.

So now build your very light (mall type buildings) and your very heavy stadium and see what happens. It is called movement due to the expansion and contraction of the clay layer during changes of the seasonal rain patterns. During wet periods the clay swells and during dry periods it collapses. Going back and forth between the two causes a repeditive pattern of yearly rising and falling, forever. Not good for rigid construction materials, roads, etc.

Think of a parasite riding on the back of its host. Where the host goes so does the parasite. Remember, movement kills buildings. It is just that simple.

Now lets talk a little about all of the trapped methane under Toytown. Years of bleeding off this methane has not ended the condition. Leaking methane oozing up through the ground could be a distinct hazard for those lighting up a smoke. This condition was once thought of as a silly possibility until it was realized in Africa and other locations that escaping early morning methane from the ground was responsible for killing whole villages and animal populations while they slept without leaving a trace. Since the methane hugs the ground to about four feet high it kills things lying close to the ground like sleeping villagers and small animals unable to escape. During the day breezes simply dispersed the methane and left no trace. Sounds like a stretch but there is methane at Toytown and stranger things than this happen in this world.

So want a stadium at Toytown, solve these problems along with all of the others.

[since1962]

The methane in a remote African village was trapped under sediment in a LAKE and its release was triggered by seismic or landslide activity I believe.

Creating urban myths of baseball fans and suburbanites bursting into flames at Toytown is nonsense.

Bear Creek Capital WILL be building a HUGE development at Toytown and such reuse is common practice across America and NOT new science.

Should we leave this testament to our overconsumption and wastefulness undeveloped?

[Jon McPhee]

Redevelop Toytown with a lot of high-tech site prep?

Nah- we should get the military to test one of its "bunker-buster" deep-penetrating nukes down here -- drop it right into the middle of the landfill footprint, and you'll have a nice deep hole to collapse all the refuse into, then you can fill and re-grade 'til the cows come home. Pick the day for the test right, and you can get any radiation that's released to spread on the sea or land breeze right over your least favorite neighborhood in the area. Of course, we'd have to trust that our "smart" military can actually manage to direct one of its "smart" weapons to the intended target, and not hit Jabil instead, by collateral-damage, dyslexic input of geocoordinates by some HS-dropout E-4.

Now THAT is the kind of out-of-box (or was it out-of-mind) thinking we need for jolting into motion the development "miracle" some of us think we need so bad around here.

And methane? That will just add a little blue-flame, fuel-air poof to the main blast.

By the way, methane is ODORLESS, AND LIGHTER THAN AIR, SO IT DOES NOT "HUG THE GROUND."

And the gas that killed all those Africans was carbon DIoxide which IS "heavier than air," and for you fearful it was NOT CARBON MONOXIDE as in what you kill yourself with by running the car in the garage. And the lake was Nyos in Cameroon, and the year was 1986, and there was an article explaining it all in National Geographic. Or if you believe Wikipedia, you can look it up there.

But my mind's made up, so don't even try confusing me with facts, or factoids. Damn hippie liberal America-hating gay-marriage anti-gun wimps!

[Kathleen]

I recall that the contamination from the gas plant site aka Trop was trucked over to Toytown. Like that's a really clean place where I would live, work, play and raise a family. NOT!

[Purple]

Since 1962: Do not forget what Kathleen said above. Old Toytown contamination materials must be dealt with prior to any re-development.

[Kyle]

Airco site. Anyone driven that location at lunch time or in the morning/afternoon? Screw that. That area is a mess. The airport managers would have to be Jack Melvins to support such an idea. Besides St.Pete isn't going to let the team move outside of their land rights.

[make a deal]

I'm having a hard time understanding why there is an interest from our community to put a stadium in area's where little urban life exist.
A destination where we would all have to get into our own cars and drive to the stadium. Don't we want to get away from our dependence on our automobiles?
People work in the "Toytown" area, but they don't live there! And the Rays are wanting a stadium to increase their value. Why would they want the same thing they have at the Trop, but somewhere else??

Toytown HAS THE WORST SMELL ALL DAY LONG!! And the name sounds like the land of eternal elves...

Put the stadium on the waterfront, where people live, work, and play without having to go more than 5 miles from home. Next to established neighborhoods like our own Old SE,Old NE, Snell Isle, etc., that have existed for as long as Al Lang field (close to 100 years) and the Rays and the City of St. Pete will continue to grow together in a successful, rooted way.

The future of a downtown waterfront stadium is one of "where you want to be"!
The place to go close deals. The place to go to fall in love. Where you go to see and be seen.

A ballpark that reflects the spice and character of downtown St. Pete. Commission songwriters to compose our own "NY NY" or "Sweet Caroline" kind of song that will be played at the end of every game.

The waterfront stadium has the potential of being more than a theme park destination...it has the ability to be our city's heartbeat. That is worth investing our tax dollars in. Because it has such a favorable return for us, even in ways that are not monetary.

And the Rays want the waterfront. It's their first (and probably only) choice.
We have 15 acres of an old waterfront baseball stadium that's available...
So we have negotiating powers.
Start there. They proposed to us what they were most comfortable with, so now we tell them what we think works. Negotiate financing, architectural design, and what we get back for providing financing and a waterfront location.

Florida is known for transplants...our cities don't often reflect rooted communities.
The City of St. Petersburg can! We are an old established city that has grown to almost 250,000 residents. A stadium holding 34,000 of us is expected at this point in our history.

Get the waterfront stadium - or die trying!!

[Mal]

Make a deal, How many days did you spend at toytown to determine this smell thing? All the mentoned nieghborhoods have thrived along side the reasonably proportioned Al Lang field.The proposed stadium 20 stories of permanent structure and a 30 story tower and shade tent are not proportional to the nieghborhoods. Put it in the gateway area where it belongs.

[Mike]

get-lost ... your comments are trite and just not funny. You suck.

[John]

Make a deal, stop lying to people.

The Rays 1st choice is and has always been a retractable roof stadium with A/C. Kalt & Silverman have said that repeatedly.

They also said that type of building won't fit at Al Lang.

You're not getting your sailboat, sorry.

[since1962]

I KNOW you have internet access.

Brownfield redevelopment in built out counties SUCH AS OURS is common and RESPONSIBLE.
You trust the city at Trop site but NOT the COUNTY at TOYTOWN?

Rational arguments please.

Again I'll ask:

Do we leave this place undeveloped FOREVER?

[Rick K]

Since 1962, you ask precisely the most relevant question, but about the wrong location.

Toytown can be developed. That is fine.

But it is not the best location for a Major League stadium. The most successful Major League stadiums are in more intense, well developed, existing urban environments.

The MLB stadiums which have the greatest impact on positively attracting tourists are those which combine appealing architecture in said urban setting with some irreplacable experience. In Boston, NY, and Chicago, a large part of the appeal is the history of the place. In San Francisco and similar venues, it is natural features which have been "built into" the ballpark experience.

The Al Land site presents all three of these factors (which are all absent at Toy Town).

Urban surrondings (check)
Connection with baseball's history (check)
A ballpark experience which incorporates views of downtown and the bay (check).

Can't get any of that at ToyTown.

Sorry.

[since1962]

Unless they build it in your back yard YOU wont have to get in YOUR car BUT...

The MAJORITY of the 30,000 to 50,000 desired fans WILL HAVE TO DRIVE.

Its not ALL about baseball.

Don't like the name Toytown?

When was the last time Tropicana was called Gas Plant Dome?

One clever poster suggested filling in Mirror Lake in order to keep stadium downtown. NO folks we wont let you ruin our city.Consider yourselves lucky if the divisions can be healed enough to enable a new stadium ANYWHERE.

[John]

Poor Rick K

Your argument is silly.

Like a kid stomping his feet about wanting Al Lang. Temper tantrums aren't going to work either.

The ballpark likely isn't going to have views of anything, since it will likely be a walled-in building with a retractable roof. So your view is of the baseball game (where it should be) and the sky.

At least at Toytown, more people would come to games because it's centrally located and will have plenty of parking close by.

Can't get that at Al Lang....

[Rick K]

Since 1962 trys to make several absurd points, which is impressive when you consider the brevity of her post.

No stadium proponent is suggesting that most Rays patrons will walk from their homes to games. From an economic development prospective, the question becomes what sort of stadium location and design can be devised and constructed to capture MORE dollars from people who attend Rays games. Ideally, the best scenarios are ones where businesses OTHER than just those who are affiliated with the Rays receive economic benefits from game attendees.

Most of us who favor the waterfront stadium location do so because it is NOT all about baseball. If it were all about baseball, any location would work. We are seeking a location that best marries the objectives of the team with the objectives of our city and region.

The very reasons we like the downtown waterfront location are because we seek to benefit that neighborhood, bring more people to the waterfront, and create bookend economic stimulus packages on either end of 18 or so blocks from 16th street to the water.

Tropicana Field has never been called gas plant dome. The name Tropicana Field benefits the team, the City, the Region, and everyone who works in Florida's citrus industry. The name is synonmous with tropical citrus groves, with their temporate climate and relaxing mental images. The name also helps to MARKET orange juice, much of which originates in the many groves which comprise the hinterlands of the Tampa-StPete metropolis.

Again, 1962, these proposals are not about runing this city. They are about a possible approach to improving it, significantly.

As for this nonsense about divisions and healing. Please get a grip. Many of us count ourselves lucky that this issue has helped us to learn that some of our neighbors are kooks and extreme oppositionists.

In fact, because of the manner in which they exposed themselves, we now have a practical blueprint for acheiving what we seek!

[since1962]

Serious meltdown Rick

Seek Help

Read before responding with blog bloating gibberish.

[Jim]

The stadium belongs on the waterfront!

Toytown is gross. The whole gateway area is very unappealing and already congested.

The stadium belongs in downtown St Pete on the beautiful waterfront. This is the successful trend in other cities - downtown stadiums. Not on disgusting landfills far from any type of culture.

Keep pushing for the downtown waterfront stadium!

[John]

Toytown is looking like the spot.

The timeline for Bear Creek is in-line with a reasonable schedule to sort out financing for the Rays.

Plenty of room for a retractable-roof, air conditioned multi-use facility designed primarily for baseball.

Central location, with several major arteries nearby.

Close to almost all of the largest employers in the county, with the most potential for major corporate support. Brighthouse, Raymond James, Mercury Insurance, Allstate, Aegon, PSCU, Home Shopping, Jabil, Franklin Templeton, FADV, etc are all within a mile of the proposed site.

Will not disrupt downtown's future growth.

Leaves the Trop site available for a major redevelopment, increasing tax revenues.

Protects St. Petersburg's downtown waterfront park system.

Will attract more fans from further away because the "hassle" of going all the way to downtown St. Pete, then looking for parking, will be eliminated.

Much broader political support. Especially if a convention component is included. Ken Welch & Bob Stewart of the BOCC are already on board.

[Rick K]

It is interesting to me that John's post at 1:54 (which he posted in multiple threads, for fear that he will be ignored, I guess), trys to make many points that actually support the Waterfront location as being superior to ToyTown.

The timeline for ANY site is now in line with what the Rays will accept, since they want a new stadium and are convinced the City and County will work to give them a stadium they like. So the timing at ToyTown is not superior to that on the waterfront. If anything, it is possibly slightly inferior.

While ToyTown does have more room, that seems to work AGAINST the site. MLB's clear preference is for more intimate, single use, urban ballparks which are distinctive (different from one another, primarily because of setting and architectural design). What MLB and the Rays do NOT want is a stadium which looks like it could be anywhere, surrounded by acres and acres of parking. (That is what they have now).

The driving time to a field at Toytown will be within a few seconds of the drivetime to a waterfront stadium, when one measures the entire area from which the Rays draw local fans. Much more importantly, what is the spillover benefit from people who drive from out of town to come see the Rays. At Toytown, the spillover is naturally reduced by the suburban setting. On the downtown waterfront, positive spillover is naturally increased by the surrounding development.

The bit about proximity to major employers is a red herring. First, it is incorrect to claim that Feather Sound and Carrillon Park house the largest employers in the City or Region. Second if the goal is to be within a five or minute drive from workplace directly to the stadium, a waterfront stadium with a newly redeveloped Trop field site will be closer to more workers than will Toy Town.

Further, Corporations don't support pro sports activities for the heck of it. They do it because of the benefits from the game experience. Part of the game experience is what happens before and after the game.

The Toy Town site relies upon a model that MLB considers to be unsuccessful for baseball. (Which is what is wrong with the Trop). MLB and the Rays do not want people to show up at game time and leave for home immediately after the game. There is simply no credible case to be made that Toy town will offer more opportunities for pre and post game entertainment and recreation than will come with the Waterfront site.

The ANTI's actually SEEK to disrupt downtown's future growth. The waterfront ballpark, on the other hand, is most likely to enhance and actually stimulate further growth downtown.

Toy Town, on the other hand, will actually COMPETE with downtown for private development dollars.

Reasonable analysis indicates that the existence of a waterfront ballpark will IMPROVE the economic viability of any redevelopment at the Trop, as the Trop site redevelopment will improve the success of the Waterfront stadium.

By putting the new stadium at Toy Town, there is no positive synergy.

The Waterfront stadium will INCREASE the amount of publicly usable parkland on the downtown waterfront. It also will increase the number of parking spaces downtown. And, much more importantly, it will greatly increase the number of people who come downtown to the waterfront, most probably leading to increased use of downtown waterfront parks and increased attendance at other community amenities on the waterfront.

There is no way a suburban stadium, surrounded by nothing but brand new development will draw more people from further away than will an exciting, iconic one-of-a-kind downtown waterfront stadium that leverages downtowns' century-long history of Major League Baseball in a setting that invites game viewers to see two of the City's most beautiful resources: the Bay and the close downtown skyline.

People in the hinterlands of the Bay area will be much more likely to drive to see the waterfront ballpark (and also the exciting vibrant urban core of which it is an integral part) than they will to check out a Disney-fied modern stadium surrounded by a bunch of new buildings in the middle of nothing.

The only sure political advantage of a Toy Town site is the advantage of avoiding an election in which the pessimists ande obstructionists are provided a voice.

Personally, I think the entire community would be much better off building at a site after a vote. And the vote comes from a proposal to build on the waterfront!

[John]

Lies, Distortions, Speculation, Spin, and utter nonsense Rrrrrrick.

Another standard-issue retort from Rick K....then again, what did you expect?

More people work downtown than Gateway/Carillon? LMFAO!!!

Al Lang is only a "few seconds" further than Toytown?? ROFL!!!!

Keep up the good work, spinster!!

[J]

John, how often do you stroll around a office park. Why would we build around all thats wrong in urban development. We evaluate feasibility of office space in downtown versus space in carillon often. They always prefer to be downtown to attract employees but sometimes choose carillon because there is simply more contiguous space available. Basically, we need more large office space downtown.

The trend overall is for businesses to look more towards downtown locations to satisfy the competition for the next generation of workers who want the adjacent amenities.

Office parks are downtown killers and should have been avoided with downtown incentives long ago.

The airport or toytown require all adjacent parking and other amenities are built from ground up with little infrastructure. This means more dollars for the new stadium and relocation of entertainment businesses that should have been downtown.

[John]

....and by building the ballpark @ Toytown, closer to the big corporations who may be more receptive to buying a luxo box "right down the street" for their employees and clients to use.

Oh and lookie there, now that we built the ballpark at Toytown, look at that...85 acres of empty land at the Trop, ready for future business you speak of who prefer to be downtown. A win-win situation.

And the waterfront stays protected for the free enjoyment for everyone, for generations to come.

[J]

Either you want to create dense active downtown with less driving necessary or you want to outsource major functions to suburbia.

Suburbia compartmentalizes our life. Drive over here for the mall, now drive here for work, and finally drive over there to enjoy a baseball game.

Downtown is coming back but we need to learn from the mistakes in development that helped keep in stagnant for decades.

Please entertain keeping this somewhere downtown.

John I thought you also supported plan B the existing trop site?

[John]

J

I am not a single-thought/my-way-or-FU kind of guy, like Rick K and the other "waterfront-or-be-damned" meatwhistles that post on here.

I feel there ARE two good options for this plan B. Toyotown is one and the Trop is the other. I'm simply pointing out the fact that THERE ACTUALLY ARE other options out there to these folks who somehow secretly created a new law that states any new baseball stadium has to be waterfront.

And J....you can't call Pinellas County "suburban"...we're the mostly densly populated, built-out county in the entire state.

That's like comparing Kenneth City with the Bruce B Downs corridor and calling them BOTh urban sprawl...it doesn't work like that here in Pinellas.

[J]

I really don't care to help the Rays sell more Luxo boxes. This shouldn't be the reason why we pick one site over another.

Pick the site that will benefit the community "St. Petersburg" the most.

I don't quite understand arguments that say they will help the Rays more on one side when it backs an argument and then in other arguments disregard the Rays requests. They believed the waterfront would help their attendance and box sales the most but we disregarded that because we don't want to give up Al Lang.

[Rick K]

John, there are more people employed in downtown St. Pete than in Feather Sound and Carillon Park. There also is more money paid to employees, more small businesses, more sales taxes paid and collected.

These figures are available to anyone who wants them.

OR you can do what John does, which is to embrace fantasy in favor of reality.

For the average Rays game attendee from Bradenton, Sarasota, St. Pete Beach or Seminole, the drive time downtown is only a few seconds difference from the Toy Town stadium site. In some cases, Downtown is a shorter drive. Not to mention most everyone who lives in the City. If you live downtown, in Northwest, Jungle Terrace, or Southside, the Waterfront will be a shorter trip than ToyTown.

People coming from Brandon, Seffner, Lakeland, and points farther away, the few minutes in drive differential is not likely to make any difference. What will make a difference is what there is to do in the area around the stadium, and who benefits from us.

If we assume that ToyTown development will eventually be built out to have the same number of available restaurant tables, barstools, and retail shopping opportunities that would exist with a waterfront ballpark, the single biggest question becomes WHY ON EARTH would this be something the City of St. Pete would want?

Why would the City want to willingly compete with a critical economic mass in the downtown core?

How does that make St. Pete a better city?

[John]

...And we never will give up Al Lang.

And regardless whether you care about luxo boxes, I'll bet you the Rays care a whole lot.

I still don't understand how taking away easy parking and making the stadium less accessible, with NO climate control, will magicly increase attendence, just because it's next to a litt water? Al Lang isn't even truly waterfront, it's a freakin yacht basin. Demens Landing is waterfront. But you're not getting a ballpark there, either.

[John]

Rick, your nonsense isn't going to convert me to Rickology.

I will never. I repeat Never support a ballpark anywhere east of MLK. Period.

And neither will the voters.

Go dust your sailboat on that shelf.

[J]

Pinellas is the most dense suburban area of a mostly suburban State. You must be excluding Miami/Miami Beach. There are only a handful of blocks that come close to urban in downtown St. Pete.

If you don't think Tyrone, Pinellas park, Kenneth City or the Gateway area are suburban than we can't have much of a discussion regarding urban development. These are the perfect example of suburban sprawl with little initial planning. These types of areas are classified as suburban in the development code as well.

I've worked in NYC. We aren't even as dense as the outskirts of Brooklyn

[Chris Jenkins]

"John, there are more people employed in downtown St. Pete than in Feather Sound and Carillon Park. There also is more money paid to employees, more small businesses, more sales taxes paid and collected.

These figures are available to anyone who wants them."

I want them, Rick. Can you point me where to go to get them? Because I don't believe you.

Companies in the Gandy/Roosevelt Corridor:

Danka
Jabil
CareMedic
BrightHouse
Raymond James
Tech Data
Digital Lightwave
Hilton
Home Shopping
Honeywell
Western Reserve
Special Data Processing

Interestingly enough, most of these businessed USED to be downtown, and also coincidentally, are listed as the TOP EMPLOYERS of Pinellas County.

http://www.clearwaterflorida.org/employment/topemployers.asp

So, Rick. Your assertions aside, you are wrong again.

[Rick K]

Chris, I am not wrong.

A list from you does not contstitute refutation of facts.

Call the County and ask them how many people work in Feather Sound and Carrilon Park, then call the City and ask them how many people work downtown.

Then come back here and apologize.

Why can't you ANTI's call a fact a fact and a wish a wish.

You are being foolish.

You don't have ANY actual data to back you up, yet you cling to your fantasy because you WANT it to be true.

Do the work.

Then report back.

[Chris Jenkins]

Wrong, Rick. I just provided Data from the City of Clearwater. You are the one who has done nothing but made assertions.

Either cite your sources, or admit you make it up as you go.

[J]

John you said "just because it's next to a little water? Al Lang isn't even truly waterfront, it's a freakin yacht basin."

------------
UMMM why the big fuss than. If there were sufficient parking and some AC than you would support it right. Since it's just a freakin yacht basin it can't be taking away some other public good.

Sorry you lost me on that one. I thought that was the basis against the stadium there.

[John]

Chris you forgot a few...

Val-pak
Aegon
First Advantage
Mercury Insurance
Allstate
Koger Center
DHL terminal
Fed Ex Terminal
UPS terminal
Waste Services
Waste Management
Equifax
Federated Dept Stores main call center
Progressive Insurance
15,000 apartments

All within 2 miles of Toytown.

[Chris Jenkins]

Hey John, that sounds like a booming spot for mixed use development!

[Chris Jenkins]

Rick's assertions used to be true, but like most of positions, he's arguing from a perspective of used to be's.

He doesn't party downtown with us, and apparently has missed most of the movement of workers from downtown. I worked down there for several years, and all the companies I worked for have now relocated to the Carillon area.

Get with the times, Rick! It's called progress! You stodgy old dinosaurs watchin yer Matlock and drinking Ensure seem to have missed it when everything changed. ;)

(Note the irony...these were the guys suggesting those of us against the waterfront location were all old stodgy types. )

[Kyle]

Let's build up Toytown really high with more trash and start a grass- skiing resort. Screw the stadium idea. The Trop is sold out tonight.

[J]

Chris,
If you know and enjoy downtown you should support keeping business and amenities near downtown. Why would we want to send anything else to Carillon. I actually am close enough to the Trop that I walk from my office and can ride my bike to work. It's not a bad way to live.

For every business that you all named there are 10 medium businesses AND 20 small businesses downtown. Additional Office space is also coming on line as well in Signature, the SRI complex, SPC offices on Williams park, and 100 bay central which was vacated for progress energy. You have four major towers and various other buildings. What about the St. Pete times headquarters, USF, and the 8 story city municipal offices. Don't any of these buildings or business have employees willing to go to a baseball game?

You get in your car to get lunch in Carillon and will have to get in your car to go to a game in toytown or downtown. Keep focused on what downtown should and can be.

[Next Round]

The Rays are number one in baseball and in the east. We are finally are getting the national attention this area deserves.

Don't send the team to the dump and make us the laughing stock of the country.

I can see the headline now. "Rays win the east and St. Petersburg sends them to the dump"
A whole new meaning to Diaper Dandies
Wheres Vitale when you need him.

[John]

LOL @ J's post....

So, I suppose Mastry's can afford the ballparks naming rights vs Franklin Templeton? "Ferg's Field", eh?

I haven't seen the owners of Tangelo's buying up luxury boxes. Perhaps the owners of PSCU or HSN might be interested, if the place was a little more convenient for them (and EVERYONE ELSE).

Let's keep focused on what the Rays said they wanted most of all. More corporate support which they believe will help increase attendence. This has little to do with downtown at all.

[Don Mott]

I see RRRick is still spinning his opinion as fact with nothing to back it up. At least your consistent there buddy!

[since1962]

"what the Rays want"

They lost the right to dictate paramaters(if they ever had the right) when they tried to force their will on an unwilling populace by manipulating our government.

NOW the people WILL decide location, design,financial contribution and IF a new stadium is EVER built.

My advice to the Rays; stop announcing your unwillingness to be the 'drivers" of this issue.

The voters have beaten you soundly BEFORE the final inning; a situation the team is not unaccustomed to accepting.

Accept WHATEVER is offered at this point OR LEAVE.

Drink MY Kool Aid Rrrrick

[get-smart]

Abe Rabinowitz -

I am sorry to offend you by my crude portrayals and parody's of the main characters of this psychodrama. I am just an observer. I am an artist. I paint what I see.

I take it then that Truth and Reality is your cup of tea. With your indulgence Rabbi: follow the link below to your world -

http://buzzfeed.com/jonah/samuel-israel-iii

Oh! Yeah! Shiksa at no extra charge.

Musseltov

P.S. The only reason it is called ToyTown is because Tinsel Town was taken. (the joke - get it)

[J]

Building on the trop site would not require a referendum vote if Jeff's committee deems that to be the best site.

Do you think progress energy staff want to drive to toytown, the airport, or walk to the trop site.
-------------
I don't think the airport site is even worth discussing

[since1962]

1)The 100 million bed tax contribution collected by cities throughout the county and dispersed by BOCC.
They will have a major say.

2)Referendum requirement or not, the voters have spoken and only a term limited or tone deaf politican would ignore BOTH location and major financial changes in any proposal.

3) Progress Energy staff desires,St petes desires, Rays desires,and fans desires will all be secondary to the voters clear DEMANDS.

BOCC supports Toytown

[Rick K]

What delusional fool believes the voters have spoken?

To you sane people, watch what happens when a large and diverse coaltion including beach hoteliers, area mayors, business giants, small business owners, myriad elected officials, and key players in the other downtown subsidized amenities throw their support behind a waterfront ballpark.

[Do it for our future]

I say take all the trash from Toytown and dump it in the bay. Backfill on top of it then. This will be the area for your stadium. Manatees and seagrass who cares. Develop the former Toytown site with homes or a huge tent city for the middle class (er, poor of our city). Blow up the Trop site. Take all that rubble and dump it in the bay around the stadium. This will be for parking. Find contaminated dirt, dump that in the bay too. Develop the Trop site for retail. This can set empty for several years. It can be called an arts center for practicing graffitti artists. It will be a safe family place like Baywalk on a Friday or Saturday night. We are all under water here in 20 years so who cares what happens. What you walk on today is under 10' of water then.

[since1962]

Rick

Watch what happens when...

930,000 ANGRY TAXPAYERS DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY FROM COWERING POLITICANS AND YOUR
MYRIAD MASSES DEPENDENDENT ON LOCAL TRADE.

Go Villages at Gateway Fields

[mrclean]

Rick K - If the city council votes to protect Lang Field and puts it in the park system, would you then say that Lang was no longer a consideration for the new stadium?

[since1962]

Why does to Times continue to cloud the issue with inane analytical "reporting" including sites that are CLEARLY not in contention?
No we won't be needing the dump expansion site!
Oh the developers have a project planned for THAT site.
Jabil possibly but is the Times advocating baseball over jobs honestly?

Clearly the voters will not allow tax money to be spent on expensive property when abundant FREE land and eager stadium developers exist ON THE SAME SITE.
The Villages at Gateway Fields will be the Rays new home. Practice saying it.
The Villages
The Fields
Get used to it.

[Next Round]

Al Lang II is still under consideration whether 1962 likes it or not. We'll see if voters want waterfront over a additional 100 million dollar price tag on another site. I'm thinking money talks waterfront walks right out of the picture.

Where's the heartache over 40 million to a private company with little economic impact outside of Jobs. Jabil actually had huge lay offs the last couple of years. SRI received 10 million as well this year for 40 employees. Baseball produces a variety of high paying and lower salaries. They also create huge outside impacts and tourism. 1,600,000+ Fans projected this year. It's not just about the game.

[Rick K]

1962 must be a caricature. Her claims get more delusional each day.

I wonder what weird self help philosophy these people buy into whereby one regularly engages in the practice of repeating their fantasy over and over and over and over and over.

I am pretty sure that is one of the layman's definitions of insanity.

[Next Round]

She's like a protester with turrets syndrome. I don't know quite why I think 1962 is a women but that's the image I get from the way she talks.

"930,000 ANGRY TAXPAYERS
DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY FROM COWERING POLITICIANS AND YOUR MYRIAD MASSES DEPENDENT ON LOCAL TRADE."

Myriad masses, what???

I'm sure the politicians are cowering at 1962, right.

[Get Smarter]

You haven't got what since 1962?

Your Frustration is understandable.

[Rick K]

If 1962 is not a woman, I apologize if I offended. I thought this was stated in a previous post somewhere. But I could be mistaken.

[Pella]

User fees! Let the baseball fans pay for the new stadium themselves. End of the dilema!

[Get Smarter]

1962 must just give off that mother nurturing vibe.

[since1962]

You're slipping Rrrrrrickett

Can't remember your own blog bloating diatribes?

Turrets you morons?
I have architechture?

[Don Mott]

"I wonder what weird self help philosophy these people buy into whereby one regularly engages in the practice of repeating their fantasy over and over and over and over and over."

"I am pretty sure that is one of the layman's definitions of insanity" WOW RRRick you just described yourself. Good job dude.

[Rick K]

But then again, because 1962 doesn't have bre@sts, that doesn't make him a woman.

[The REAL Rick K]

I did not make that post at 7:36 pm.

The child impostor is back, apparently.

I have never yet made any post in these threads remotely like that one.

We would all be better off if the childish games ceased!

[Rick K]

1962 because you don't have bre@sts, that doesn't make you undesirable.

[kyle]

We should all go away and let this blog DIE. Why waste any of our time until a new stadium proposal is on the board. Go Rays!!

[The REAL Rick K]

I also did not make that post at 8:20 pm. I do not make posts here like that.

[since1962]

Oh yes you have Rrickettes
both to me and others.

I have man bre@sts anyway.

Why would gender be a slur to some of you yahoos?

No wives,mothers,sisters,daughers
??????????????????????????????

[The REAL Rick K]

I never meant to slur you, and I don't regard gender as a slur. Three of the five smartest people I know are women.

[Kyle]

9 out of 10 dentists recommend Crest in fighting tooth decay.

[since1962]

Re; Everyone Wants Voice on Stadium for Rays

Mickey K

If you are "no longer the drivers of this debate", your comments regarding timelines, objectives and participants is a not so subtle first attempt at influencing the process.You are astoundingly incompetent in all these regards so shut up, accept the findings and voters impact on team finances.

[Rick K to 1962]

The Rays are now even more in the drivers seat.

Conclusions to the contrary are erroneous.

[Rick K]

Not building a new stadium at AL LANG will NOT be free. Nor will it result in saving our wallets.

The COST of keeping AL LANG empty (or converting it to a park) is between a few Billion and several BILLION DOLLARS that we would see from a new stadium at Al Lang.

[since1962]

The RAYS WILL PAY