Lyash dishes out coalition details

[Times photos | Willie J. Allen Jr.]

The coalition tasked to find a viable location for a new Tampa Bay Rays baseball stadium will include nine members from the Tampa Bay area and will likely conclude its work within 18 months, coalition chairman and Progress Energy CEO Jeff Lyash said at a morning press conference announcing details of the groups' plans.

The coalition, which will be formally called A Baseball Community, will also attempt to build fan and business support for the Rays, Lyash said. But it's primary focus, at least publicly, will be to vet possible stadium locations.

Nominations to join the nine-member group are now being accepted at the coalition's web site, www.abc-baseball.com (photo above). Nominations must be submitted by midnight Aug. 4. Lyash said he hopes to have the coalition seated sometime around Labor Day.

"One primary qualification," said Lyash (photo at right), who was flanked during the announcement by Mayor Rick Baker, members of the Pinellas County Commission and Rays president Matt Silverman. "You must be a baseball fan. You must be committed to helping the Rays succeed in the longterm."

Lyash said later that means you must be open to the idea of the Rays needing a new stadium. No location in the Tampa Bay area will initially be off the table, Lyash said, but local elected leaders seem set on a site somewhere within the city limits of St. Petersburg.

"It's important that the members of the coalition recognize the importance of Major League Baseball here and what it can bring to the community," the Rays' Silverman said afterwards.

Comments

[Rick K]

Excellent!

[Matthew]

Times are hard, yet baseball is awash in cash. People are losing their homes, yet the Marlins (just change that to Rays)want the people's money to build a new one.

The above is from an article in the Miami Herald. Just substitute Rays for Marlins and you have the same land and cash grab the Rays are after here.

Read the full article below

BY LINDA ROBERTSON
lrobertson@MiamiHerald.com

The Marlins have their shovels poised above the dirt the same way a starving man has his fork ready to dig into a heap of rice and beans.

Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria and president David Samson probably even have custom-fitted construction hats for one of those corny ground-breaking photos.

After years of shelved blueprints, a new baseball stadium is so close they can smell the hot dogs grilling.

Then along comes Norman Braman, whose lawsuit declares: ``Let the voters decide.''

What are we to make of Braman, multimillionaire car dealer, former owner of the Philadelphia Eagles, arts patron, philanthropist?

Civic guardian or spoilsport? Principled government watchdog or cranky anti-tax zealot?

Braman says his lawsuit against Miami-Dade County, the city of Miami and the Marlins to halt the $3 billion redevelopment megaplan is all about democracy, plain and simple.

'Any use of citizens' money should be decided by the citizens,'' he said Friday after another day in court.

He's right.

But it's much more complicated than that.

JUST SAY NO

Much of the megaplan is great for Miami, a place that has needed visionary leaders but has been shackled by divisive or corrupt ones.

The stadium, however, never should have been included in the plan.

Repeat the mantra: No public funding of homes for privately owned sports franchises.

Especially for one that ranks last in attendance in Major League Baseball.

Year after year, the Marlins have battled fan indifference. They have won two World Series titles, have fielded intriguing teams, have played in a ripe market.

This season, the feisty Fish lead baseball in home runs, yet they sell an average of only 15,029 tickets per game (fewer actual people are in the seats) -- more than 4,000 below the team that is No. 29 on the list, the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Blame the climate: Everyone knew the heat, humidity and summer rains would be a problem., yet MLB put a team here anyway. Blame the dismantling of winning teams to slash the budget. Blame the array of other fun things to do in South Florida (as if Boston and Chicago don't have fun things to do).

The sad fact is, after

15 years, three owners and a parade of entertaining players, baseball has not caught on here.

On the stadium issue, citizens have voted -- at the turnstiles.

Could building a $515 million, retractable-roof stadium on the grave of the Orange Bowl in Little Havana reverse the malaise, inject money into the franchise and mold a consistent contender?

Doubtful, but the point is, nobody knows. It's a $515 million gamble, of which the Marlins are paying one-fifth the cost and reaping 100 percent of the profits in a sweet deal for Loria, a wealthy art dealer.

The Marlins don't help their case by claiming poverty but keeping their books secret.

Please, let's avoid the Field of Dreams cliché. Sure, fans would flock at first. But there is no proof, as MLB president Bob DuPuy has argued, that Miami is a carbon copy of Cleveland, where TV viewership was high but attendance was low until a new stadium created a renaissance.

TRAFFIC NIGHTMARE

The Marlins' site is not ideal, either. It will be a turnoff to Broward and West Palm Beach fans who not only have to drive south but also will face a traffic quagmire.

''The Mets are building their own stadium, as are the Giants and Jets,'' Braman said. ``If Loria wants to use his own dollars, as Joe Robbie did, I have no problem with that.''

Braman even supports public-private funding collaborations, such as the one Jerry Jones won for his new Cowboys stadium -- if they are approved by voters.

Bundling the stadium deal into the megaplan was a mistake. It might have been politically expedient for the mayors with major-league egos who are constantly campaigning to make Miami a ''world-class city,'' but, as Braman says, ``What does a baseball stadium in Little Havana have to do with revitalizing downtown?''

''Los Angeles has survived very well without an NFL franchise,'' Braman said. ``What makes a place a first-class city is its jobs, schools, homes, parks, libraries, healthcare, police protection.''

Braman is not arguing that the tourist-tax money going to the stadium could be used instead on our drowning school system. No one should be confused about that.

The megaplan would increase no one's taxes, but mistrust of local government practically ensures that the plan would be voted down. The airport expansion and performing-arts center were ridiculously over budget. We were hoodwinked on the transit tax and the AmericanAirlines Arena deal. We've been burned by waste and embezzlement.

The Bicentennial Park remake, Overtown redevelopment, port tunnel, trolley and Arsht Center debt payoff have merit. The stadium sticks out like a sore thumb.

Times are hard, yet baseball is awash in cash. People are losing their homes, yet the Marlins want the people's money to build a new one.

Repeat the mantra.

[Chip McMahan]

No location will be off the table initially? This should be fun, initially.

[get-smart]

You are in luck RRRick K. The abcb has its own blog. So now you don't have to argue with the anti's or anyone else critical of the Rays attempt at robbing us of our tax dollars. You will be with like minded bloggers. You may have a problem in registering you entourage, Sibyl.

Lyash and gang will sit on this project for eighteen months in hopes of outlasting the troublesome bloggers on this site. Plus they will then know the 2010 political climate after both elections. So I guess it's hibernation time. For those who don't make it through the winter RIP.

Oh yeah! Don't forget to donate to the abcb, they need the money.

[Rick K]

Thanks to Matthew for posting an opinion piece by a Mimmi writer which conclusive proves that the same level of stubborn ignorance that dominates this St. Pete - based forum is also present in Miami....

"Repeat the mantra: No public funding of homes for privately owned sports franchises"

That is an ignorant slogan, which does not serve the public well. Why would we repeate the mantra? We may as well chant, "No museums!" Or "do away with public schools!" Or, "Let's run tourists off our beaches!" All are equally ignorant and short sighted chants.

"Please, let's avoid the Field of Dreams cliché."

Actually, it's not a cliche'. It's a law of Economics (see Say's Law).

"TRAFFIC NIGHTMARE"

I am glad she included ignorant, overly pessimistic prjections about traffic nightmares.(Duh! Events that draw huge numbers of people by car come with loads of traffic before and after the event - ever been to an evening schoolwide program, where latecomer's can't find a parking space and everyone sits in their car for 25 minutes when leaving?)

What has happened in Miami is what happened in Hillsborough County with there Bucs stadium plan. Public subsidy of the new stadium has been combined in a single package with other valued public infrastructure projects (each with some who favor and others who dislike the individual project), in a manner that elected officials believe will best leverage public monies to provide the greatest return to the widest possible number of people.

As it should be.

[Paul]

Thank you Rick, for clearing up things for us all. Now we know, thanks to you, who's comments are ignorant and that you are the smartest person in the world. Hey, you going to nominate yourself for the coalition? You should. Really, I mean it. Either that, or your head is going to pop from all the angst you have against people who don't agree with you.

As far as no location being off the table, well... that's not cool. I do believe the citizens have made it rather clear that WE don't want a waterfront ballpark. Don't make me dust of my red signs :)

[Tim]

If the St Pete residents don't want you, Tampa will gladly take you. The stadium should have been built in a real sports city, like Tampa, anyways. Pinellas has an aging population, 12,000 less students this year and declining growth. Time to let the big boys handle it now. Pinellas has proven then are not in the big leagues yet.

[TechRider]

When you say WE, how many are YOUR group? What percentage of the city are with YOU, that gives you the right to call yourself WE?

[Eric from Largo]

I have a great idea that's cheaper and won't take any land at all. Well, maybe some anchors of course and a lot of really good rope or chain. The weather would have to help, too. After all these programs I am stuck watching repeatedly for my $105 a month for TV, I am convinced that this effort could be solved by the construction of some of those really good Swedish or Danish special barges-big enough to make a baseball diamond upon for this cause: Then connect 'em all together and set 'em out in Tampa Bay between our two cities. That's a real waterfront stadium! It would also clear up any confusion on the team's home. This would literally be "the Tampa Bay Rays!" The plan could also help the local economy in these hard times by allowing any boat owner to take folks to watch the game on the bay. Think of it. Why, I bet the whole construction project would end up on TV and the team could charge for the rights to the show to replace all those home run balls that landed in the water.

[Mo]

How exactly is Tampa a "real sports city"? Because you and your city are already congested and filled with a bunch of egotistical morons? Me thinks so.

[Bill]

Did you ever think about that fact that you create your own destiny? You can lose your job at any time. Therefore, the onus is on YOU to save and work 2 or more jobs to help create empowerment for yourself. This way you aren't affected as much. See it's called personal accountability. This mantra is foreign to a Democrat.

[get-smart]

AAron, You're back. Did you find your super model in Sweden/Finland/Ukraine/the old Soviet Union? If you did, post a picture of her.

[lisa]

The Rays should stay at the Trop - look at their record. It's the only place they can win. They aren't winning (a lot) on the road.

It's close to 100 degrees out today. I didn't want to walk to my mailbox, do you really want to sit at a ballgame for 9 innings?

The Trop is a great place to watch a game, no bad seats, no sun burns, no rain delays, lots of success for the home team.

[Edward]

Anybody here ever live in a baseball town? This is no baseball town...

[Juan Ponce De Leon]

Tim,

St Pete has an aging population you say? What exactly are the people in Tampa drinking to reverse the aging process? I've been searching for this magic elixir my whole life

[Bill]

WE WANT A WATERFRONT BALLPARK!

[Tim]

I am not sure if you determine if a town is considered a baseball town after only 10 years of MLB. Give the area 75 - 100 years of baseball like the other so called "baseball towns", then make your comparison.

[tim]

I wonder how many people who see the complete stupidity of forcing the taxpayers to buy an un-needed $450+ million dollar, one-use stadium for a group of out-of-state millionaires will be accepted on Mr Lyash's hand-picked gravy train coalition? Better yet, I wonder who's going to be their "token" opposition voice. You know, that one guy out of nine who'll raise some serious concerns, but will be assuaged by the superior wisdom of Mr. Lyash, Mr Silverman, Mr Sternberg and of the course, The St. Pete Times advertising sales department.

[Tim]

Ponce,

I guess I have to spell it out for you. Ok, take out that hearing aid and turn off Jeopardy. I probably should have said apopulation who average age is increasing every year. This means more people like you are moving into the city and/or the young people are moving out. Based off of school statistics, the younger population is moving out of Pinellas. Ok, you can go back to your shuffleboard.

[Juan Ponce De Leon]

What's this shuffleboard and Jeopardy you speak of? Am I in trouble? Also, where can I get one of these hearing aids? Are the aids volunteer Indians who receive messages for me? Those guys hate me for all the killing and whatnot. I think my aid would have to be another Spaniard. Your statistics show that youngsters are moving out of Pinellas. Thats pretty impressive that their parents let them do that before they get a license.

[Juan Ponce De Leon]

Tim, my name is Juan, not Ponce

[Paul]

Does Jeff Lyash live in Pinellas? Just curious is all.

and one more time, what's the matter with the Trop?

[since1962]

No Mr Lyash

Baseball at

ANY LOCATION

AT ANY COST

Has been removed from consideration by a WIDER RANGE than the NINE BASEBALL FANS you DEMAND as participants in your

'coalition'

Progress Energy boardrooms may operate at YOUR direction with only LIKE MINDED MINIONS but OUR community has A DIVERSITY of NEEDS AND OPINIONS.

Two definitions of 'coalition'
occur...

1)An ALIANCE OF FACTIONS

2)A group of 5 or 6 male lions who drive off other males in order to 'mate' with the females.

Should the goal be a COMMUNITY ALLIANCE...

OR

"MOUNTING" THE TAXPAYER?

[Aaron Sharockman]

Get-smart.
Back indeed. I'll post a picture and a short note about my trip tomorrow. Today, I'm stuck trying out to see if I can still type complete sentences.

[Paul]

1962, my thoughts exactly! This coalition does seem a way to get the deal done without that pesky population getting in the way. This is hardly an alliance, its a one sided army of the areas powerful against the voters.

[Karl]

Does anyone actually believe that this group of 9 could possibly get together and after eighteen months time, determine that building a new basebll stadium is indeed a very bad idea? Fat chance.

[since1962]

Now leave me alone dadgummit!
I'm a cranky old hermit who hates people, progress and anything that disturbs my regularity!

GREEN BENCHES FOREVER

[Mike]

re: since1962

Baseball at any location at any cost has been removed from consideration? When did this happen? If memory serves me correct, the potential for a waterfront stadium at the Al Lang site was postponed by the Rays while a broader coalition of community leaders was being assembled to assess this and other sites. While a significant opposition was mounted to the waterfront proposal, that sentiment would be mollified greatly if another site elsewhere in the area was chosen. Please refrain from histrionics.

[Old Man from Tampa]

We can’t bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don’t go anywhere. Like that time I took the ferry over to Shelbyville; I needed a new heel for my shoe. So, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. ‘Give me five bees for a quarter,’ you’d say. Now where were we? Oh yeah, the important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have any white onions, because of the war; the only thing you can get was those big yellow ones.

[Another Old Man from Tampa]

My story begins in nineteen-dickity. We had to call it dickity because the Kaiser stole our word twenty. I chased him, but gave up after dickity-two miles. Anyway, the lease on the Trop ends in dickity years. So by then the Rays can move dickety three miles east to my town Tampa.

[Eric from Largo]

Ok. So I got no wise cracks on my idea for barge ball on the waters of Tampa Bay. My feelings are this: Until an awful lot of stuff settles down in people's financial lives-right here in Tampa Bay, the Rays can tough it out at the Trop[as lisa sez]because it's a good park. Why all the Maserati madness for newer and more when in time maybe some folks won't be able to take the kids to a game at all because their money is already committed to fuel, food, clothes, taxes, repairs, hurricanes, maybe more bank fun, and a situation going on that keeps getting compared to the Great Depression. So we have no major bread lines; and people are starving to death yet...all I know is a budget was blown out of the water by gas price increases. Let's have something stable in our lives that's familiar as well. No puffing up for money to build a new stadium when the price of materials would change as fuel costs drove up delivery prices. Or if all else fails, make the thing a floating ball park we can use as an escape device is we get hit by a nice storm helped along by all this asphalt and concrete that replaced our trees. How can you enjoy all this when money is now the center in every life. People pushing for this new park aren't being anything but greedy and selfish. The Trop has good vibes for the Rays & a good name. Makes me think of oranges...when we had good oranges around and grapefruit--all for free. Once, we had that and fish and spring training and all of it. We also had some free access waterfront to use. Plan well and there's no regrets. I don't see a plan here. I see people who want my money for something I don't want. Na, na, na, na, na, na.

[Jason]

baseball has got to go!

we don't want the rays here anymore!

[since1962]

Mike
The RAYS don't SINGULARLY control this issue and a 'broader coalition' DOES NOT consist of nine rabid baseball fans.

Histrionics are best exemplified by those touting 'studies' claiming Rays 15000 fans as Pinelass' economic fuel.

[Dr_Dug]

Thier not our elected Leaders! Thier our elected represenitives.......
The group is a start....lets see what they do.
Only the inner circle are going to be in the group anyway......

[since1962]

Paul
I agree this may be an attempt of the so called 'powerful against the voters'...

POWW has proven the POWER of the people. I have not always agreed with every POWW action and thought they could have been MORE proactive in some instances but it is an undeniably valuable grassroots organization which will have a voice in ANY proposal regardless of MR Lyashs 'team'

[Eric from Largo]

Hey! Let's keep this friendly. I got two Bills out there. One sez WE WANT A WATERFRONT BALL PARK--and another(?) Bill sez "Therefore, the onus is on YOU to save and work 2 or more jobs to help create empowerment for yourself. This way you aren't affected as much. See it's called personal accountability. This mantra is foreign to a Democrat." Well Billy boy, I changed parties in protest to a Democrat, but I vote like I want. These new corporate owned Republicans don't even know they're selling the US down the drain. I'm an American and I'm looking at a country I don't recognize anymore. Don't even mention Democrats-I can't stand it. Every time we get in a crucial election, they flub it up every time. I agree w/you and your mantra. But heck, this is a democracy of sorts so I'll go that way. Dictionaries just define words in common use-not dictate them. If you look us up in a dictionary we'll be described as an Republic. I disagree because I'm always right. Put banana in front and you may have the new Bush USA! I say I DON'T WANT A NEW WATERFRONT BALLPARK! I'd rather have a safe and honest state, and schools, and clean water. I'd like a Florida that gets respect for it's fragile nature and a chance to live. It can't take all this metro moving w/out a whiplash unless we all want the same thing so we can blame ourselves if it tanks. It seems that a lot of people[political party not mentioned] don't all agree on the park for the cost of it--at this time. Just don't care since nothing's broken. Why fix it-sort of. Metro. It's a word almost alien to Florida once, and it's coming fast and furious to a place near you. I watched development AND a lottery happen in California, then came here to see the same. Food for thought: In both states all the lawmakers knew they were cutting education funds-but all the ads made people think lottery money would ADD TO education. That's fraud. Now education's getting it's cuts because folks don't have as much to gamble with. Receipts are down big time. See? I took the crack about Democrats in a ballpark situation, and managed to drag in the lottery, education, fraud/politics and Metro. We have a park that even looks good as you drive up to it. A waterfront park where [they] are pushing to build isn't meeting a loving embrace at the moment. Time for a huddle in a puddle. It's thee rainy season...

[Mike]

This is a very good start -- and they're looking at everything that goes into making baseball work here -- give this group a shot to do their work and report back -- we might ALL learn some things when they do -- go RAYS!

[Steve]

I will not vote for any proposal that wants to use taxpayer dollars to make super rich MLB franchise owners richer. Bye bye Rays, hope you find some suckers to love you in Tampa, Orlando or Jacksonville.

[get-smart]

The Real Community Blog: a Community Question

“Why do you feel keeping a major league baseball team here is in the best interests of the community?”
---------------------------------------------
I like the Rays. They are a great team. Go Rays! The new owners are great and they care about me. They will make everything better. They are so smart and so is Mayor Baker and Mr. Lyash.

There will be plenty of jobs and business' will flourish.

It was a stroke of genius to have this blessed committee of nine led by a real man of the people. Of course on back-up is Mikey & Matt (aka m&m).

'You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And build the f*k**' stadium.

-

[Johnny-o]

TAMPA - TAKE THEM PLEASE!!!!

[JudyToo]

This whole thin was cooked up by the mayor with no right to do so. The Rays have a contract with the city. The sole purpose of this board is to interfere with that contract. That's illegal.

Someone (maybe all nine or whatever the number is) is going to end up in court because there's someone here like that guy that's suing Miami over the Marlins shell game. This time there will be even more deep pockets!

If the Rays want a new stadium, they should buy some land (there's 86 acres for sale pretty cheap) and build themselves a stadium and pay property taxes like the rest of us. AFTER they settle up with the city on their existing contract.

[Paul]

I do not believe this coalition will build any community support at all. I'm thinking its going to backfire and create a lot of pizzed off people, struggling to keep their homes and jobs... and wondering why our local leaders are trying to spend 1/2 billion on something that is not essential. This is as bad as government can get. Its positioning business against citizens. What a crock. Lyash can go for a long walk off the pier along with the Rays owners.

Just my opinion.

[Fred]

No public Money for Fat Cat Museums and Parks!!! We all are in tough times and can't pay for stupid things like Museums that only a few will enjoy, and these city parks are a giant waste of taxpayer money...they need to go!!! Why aren't we all up in arms about that giant waste of space airport?? We need to have that and the Mahaffey theater removed, nobody goes there anyway...what a waste....cities shouldn't have these things!!!!

[Thomas]

I'm not sure I understand Mr. Lyash's comment: "You must be committed to helping the Rays succeed in the longterm."

If you buy tickets and merchandise; if you watch the games on TV or listen on radio; if you support the teams sponsors - is that enough "commitment to helping the Rays succeed"?

Of does Lyash also mean you must also commit tax money to keep mega-wealth MLB happy?

I wonder if he could clarify exactly what he means by "commitment" to the Rays "success".

[Mathew]

Mike - You said:

While a significant opposition was mounted to the waterfront proposal, that sentiment would be mollified greatly if another site elsewhere in the area was chosen.

While I don't think a waterfront stadium was every a good idea do you honest think that spending any public money on a for profit concern is good idea. Why, when I have to work two jobs to keep our heads afloat and my kids after school program is threatened to be cut by the city, should I want to spend one penny so that some Wall St. Wizards from NYC can make a billion bucks? The city wants to cut at least 13 million from our budgets - that's police, library hours, kids programs and, maybe, something that will affect you, Mike. Fewer than 7% of St. Pete residents even go to a game. Why do we want to GIVE the Rays at stadium at all? Using public monies for such a thing is obscene.

[John D]

get-smart:
Even if I'm the only one, I still think that was a freakin' hilarious take on Lennon.
We should call Yoko and ask her what she thinks.
As far as the Coalition goes, my first supervisor told me that the only way a committee of 3 could accomplish anything is if one member is sick and another is in the bathroom.
I assume that when the Coalition is finished, it will refer its findings to the politicians, who will then do as they would have done with or without said "findings." But it will take a lot longer. I guess delaying things is good, unless it's "free beer tomorrow." That never panned out.

[since1962]

American Heritage Dictionary
4th Edition

co-a-li-tion

1. an ALLIANCE especially a temporary one of people, FACTIONS...

2. a group of usually 2 to 6 (9?) male lions that drive off and replace male lions in a pride in order to mate with females...

Your nabob group will not succeed in 'mounting' taxpayers and will inure Progress Energy to public scorn if attempted.

[Mike]

Mathew,

I'm completely okay with spending money on a baseball stadium for the Rays. I don't care if the Rays owners are rich and will get richer. They are a for-profit business. That's the idea. I happen to have plenty of money too, no kids, and I love to go to games. I'm sorry if you are struggling to make ends meet. It seems as if there are an awful lot of people on here that didn't really plan for the lean times. I did.

Good luck!

[Taxpayer and American Citizen]

Mike:

Thank you. You make our point for the average citizen who is not rich, does not go to the Rays games because it costs so much and does not wish to see his tax burden go up because excise taxes and other general revenue funds are being redirected to make rich baseball owners richer.

Remember the Lotto was a con game. It was supposed to add dollars to education. The legislature simply cut back state funding and replaced it with Lotto money. As such, education did not benefit as advertised with substantial new and additional dollars.

This was done, I am quite sure, so that the liberals could justify that education is under funded every year and go about screaming that we need to raise taxes and teacher salaries. I am over sixty years old and have heard this very same claim since my twenties. Nothing has changed. There never, ever is enough money. What total bolderdash.

Take the Penny for Pinellas which was originally intended for a one time ten year period. Now it comes back every ten years. It is just another tax increase that appears will never go away. And what is worse is people believe the advertising con job the County promotes to justify it and keep voting it back. Pathetic. I voted for it the first time and now vote against it every time.

I voted for the Crist property tax reduction and would vote to lower it again. The only way to reduce government is to take away its money. And I will vote down any tax anytime I get the chance. Often less is truly more.

I am against any new taxes.

I am against corporate welfare.

I am against tarrifs, subsidies and government giveways.

I am against government waste and I am against all of the excessive benefits provided to elected congressional members. They most certainly do not earn it. This goes for republicans as well as democrats.

To reduce the deficit I would immediately stop all foreign aid. I would call in all debts owed to the U. S. for the defense of Europe, twice, South Korea and the reconstruction of Europe (The Marshall Plan) and the reconstruction of Japan (The MacArthur Plan). I would also start charging Irag a modest fee which would grow in the future to cover the war cost. Even if it takes a hundred years. The same goes for Afganistan, South Korea and Tai Wan. If we did some of these things maybe we would not be in debt so much or at all. Heck we are trying to manage the entire world and pay for it all by ourselves. The rest of the world hardly lifts a finger to help us save Great Britain, our only true friend.

I would arrest illegal aliens, charge them a fine, wait until the money is paid, use some of it to pay their way back to where they came from and to build the fence along the border. The rest I would use to help pay down the national debt or for added security along the border or both.
I would make all prisoners work while in jail and keep the profits they make.

I would charge Europe, Central and South America and a hundred other places for the American Military protection that we provide. They should all pay us for the libberty we provide. Look at Canada. A constant critic of the US with no real percentage of their GNP for their own military capability. They expect America to protect its borders with our radar, satelites and air force. This is got to stop. It is what allows them to be liberal and socialist because they can redirect what GNP they do produce into social programs while critizing us for not being like them. Even though it has been proven their social programs do not work worth a damn. Start with their failed free medical health benefits for all. Heck they come here for surgeries and proper care when it really counts.

Time to quit this. Nothing will change. I remember when this country was better in so many ways. Not in all ways but in so many ways yes.

[Rick K]

Taxpayer is confused.

1. Public investment in a new stadium for the Rays will permit St Pete Tax payers to recieve more government benefits than would be available without the returns from investing in a stadium (since the invesment will be in the neighborhood of 15-25 million per year, and the Rays economic impact with a new stadium should be four to six times that)

2. The Florida Lotter is NOT a con game. The PRIMARY purpose of the state operated lottery is to permit the public to benefit from money which, prior to the lottery, was in the hands of organized crime enterprises, who operated daily numbers schemes and failed to pay any of the proceeds from those operations to the government. In that respect, the Lottery has been a smashing success. Some argue, incorrectly, that the Lottery income, which are new revenues to the government and which are used to fund education, actually represent some sort of trick by government. There is no factual or logical basis for that false claim.

3. The Penny for Pinellas was not originally "intended" for 10 years only. It was originally intended to be in place for 10 years, after which the proponents of the original tax intended to seek subsequent renewals. The additional penny sales tax has funded hundreds of millions of infrastructure improvements.

4. If you are against new taxes, than you ought to do anything you can to help the government pay for things without raising taxes, such as the Rays proposed new stadium.

5. You are not against corporate welfare. You just like saying you are. Every single product and service you buy was brought to you via a myriad number of government subsidies. People who parrot the hollow line "I am against corporate welfare" are fooling themselves. They are NOT against corporate welfare. They just want to be.

6. Taxpayer is not against government give-aways. Taxpayer's daily life includes the consumption of hundreds to thousands of products and services that were produced and delivered as a result of government subsidies and give aways.

7. The stuff about debt is nonesense, as is all the angry, small minded, racist bile which follows.

Other than that though, Taxpayer made a fine post...

[Rick K]

"I would arrest illegal aliens, charge them a fine, wait until the money is paid, use some of it to pay their way back to where they came from and to build the fence along the border."

Today marks the second time I read the above. All I can say is, That is pretty funny.

[SINCE1962]

see 7/21 10:57 post on point.

Focus...

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