Heathcheck Wednesday: Week 14

Week 14 of Heatcheck Wednesday, a permanent feature here at Ballpark Frankness (that everyone likes to criticize). The idea behind this post is to track the past week's Rays home games and wonder how tolerable they would have been, had they been played outdoors.

Six home games since last Wednesday (I'm counting today's ongoing matinee as well). Some pretty hot days this week.

Here are our up to date standings after 62 homes games, 76 percent of the home schedule:

How you feeling? Hot. Hot. Hot. ---- 5

Hot, but nothing a cold beverage couldn't cure. ---- 13

Take me out the ball game. ---- 44

Rain delay (Rain plays a minor factor) ---- 2

Rain out (Rain plays a major factor) ---- 1

Comments

[John]

We're critical of this thread because it's totally subjective. Everyone is different. What's unbearable to you may be perfectly fine for someone else.

But you're doing a great job overall with the blog Aaron & Christina.

Just wish you could make it more like the "It's Your Times" blog where registration is required.

[Rick K]

When I first discovered this particular recurring blog topic (Weekly updates), I was more critical of it than I am now. I thought the measurements should be guaged at Al Lang field, instead of some other place.

Now that I see we are more than 3 months into the weekly updates, I really appreciate the efforts of Aaron, Christina and others (??) to keep on monitoring the actual game time conditions each week.

My own count (kept in a regular notebook) had "Hot Hot Hot" at 8 games, instead of five. And I thought there might have been one more rainout. But when I went online and checked my scrathed notations with actual game time temperatures and conditions, I found evidence that supports this Blog's count over my own.

Excellent work guys! Please keep 'em coming.

[John D]

Rick K--
I find it reassuring (as, I'm sure, do A. & C.) that your notations support the listed categories.
Could you now please give us the parameters, i.e. the cut-offs, for "Take me," vs. "Hot but nothing" & "Hot. Hot. Hot."? Inquiring minds want to know.
Personally, I'm hopin' that "Take me" is right around 72 degrees. Am I right?

[since1962]

Las Vegas has those sidewalk cafe misters because of their dry heat. Amazingly they are becoming common here too as if humidity is a problem BUT NEVADA relative humidity is as relevant 'heatcheck'

Compare outdoor games here to other cities!

Or are you just blowing 'mist'

[Rick K]

The principle problem with this particular sub-topic is that one side refuses to acknowledge the unprovability of their position.

Certain people assert that weather conditions during the MLB season are so uncomfortable (because of rain, heat and humidity) that FEWER people will attend outdoors Rays games than currently visit the Trop.

There is no way to prove this claim. It is a guess.

Similarly, there is no way to prove the opposite position. There is no way to PROVE how many people will or will not come to watch Rays games in an outdoor stadium five years from now.

The "fewer people will come if the games are played outdoors" crowd seek to support their unprovable claim with antecdotal observations and falacious attempts to dismiss evidence which supports the opposite contention. "I wouldn't come to games," they say. As if that is enough to prove their point. Some of them say, "Everyone I know says they wouldn't go to games outdoors." As if THAT is enough.

If someone points out that Floridians do go to outdoor baseball games nearly every night during the MLB season, in numbers exceeding the capacity of the proposed new stadium, the "ANTI" crowd insist this information tells us nothing about the willingness of Bay Area residents to endure the weather to watch pro baseball during the summer.

If someone points out that many MLB teams play in outdoor stadiums with equal or worse weather conditions, and millions come to watch those teams play, the ANTI's tell us this fact is not relevant.

If a person points out that Rays and MLB baseball have actually engaged studies which involve surveying their current fans and likely future fans, and those studies indicate an outdoor stadium would be successful, the ANTI's tell us not to believe the numbers. (Because apparently, it would be in the interests of successful millionaire investors to spend millions of their own money on a venture gauranteed to fail!)

If someone points out that Major League Baseball has considerably more resources to devote to investigating the likely success of various stadium proposals, and their study and extensive expertise convince them that an outdoor stadium would be successful, the ANTI's tell us this does not matter.

What matters, to them, is that THEY don't think people will come to games in an outdoor stadium. Even though their position is unprovable.... Even thought there is sizable evidence to support the opposite conclusion.... the ANTI's cannot be swayed!

Which, apart from everything else, is interesting.

[John D]

Darn. I missed those temperature numbers. They musta been buried in your post, Rick K--could you repeat 'em? Thanks.

[Harold]

John
If you ever do figure out those numbers could you give me a shout out?
I think this is my last little trip to this Blog.
I live here in St pete
Have lived here for three years. I have lived in florida for ten years
I am a partial season ticket holder four seats lower Box.
In my opinion, (not POWWS or the ANTIS or anybody else's,) In My opinion, iT is too friggin hot to play outside past
12 noon on most any day from June thru September. My Kid plays baseball outside... IN THE MORNING.
I dont understand the basis for people telling me " No your not uncomfortable, THE ANTIs are lying to you"
"No you're Not sweating your Balls off THE POWWS are lying to you and making you think you are sweating your Balls off"
"No its Not 97 degrees F and 89 percent humidity outside ,its "HOT BUT NOTHING A COLD BEVERAGE COULDN"T CURE" outside.

RIGHT.... Its kinda hard to watch a baseball game when Im immersed up to my ears in a COLD BEVERAGE cause thats the only way a cold beverage is gonna make that happen
What a freakin Dufus Blog
My BAD Rick K
What a Freakin Dufus "antecdotal observations and falacious" blog
Im GONE

[Rick K]

Harold, you are missing it.

Your personal preferences are not what matters here.

If you think otherwise, it is probably a good thing you are abandoning these sorts of discussions. Because we are often talking about the optimal arrangements for an MLB team that only seeks to draw a little over 30,000 to each game, from 3 million or so people.

What Harold likes is not the most important indicator here. Unless you are asserting that hordes of people watch you intently to figure out what you are going to do, before following suit.

Of course it is HOT sometimes. Of course there are people who say they think it is too hot to go to games. That isn't the end of the discussion, though, even if you want it to be.

[Rick K]

I just looked at my Rays notebook that I started in April around the same time I discovered this Ballpark Frankness blog.

I was surprised to see that I've managed to attend 29 home games so far. Other than the first season, I can't remember a season in which I saw 30 plus games in person at the Trop.

As to John D's inquiry about numbers, the most important numbers in my notebook, and the ones which give us the most insight, are the total combined attendance figures for outdoor baseball games in the Tampa Bay area each day.

Add up the attendance figures from all those games, and the sums shoot huge holes in the proposition that Bay Area residents won't come to outdoor ball games in the summer months!

Course, John D would rather argue about irrelevant details, like whether HE would have wanted to go to a game, instead of focusing on valuable data showing how many people ACTUALLY chose to go to an outdoor game.

It's not about you John D or Harold.

[since1962]

Nor SHOULD it be about you

little rrrrrrrrricky

yet it always seems to be...

perhaps Howie T and his sharp 'quill' need to visit the 'po' side of the blogoslop?

He dealt you an azz whuppin on his T blog!

[Rick K]

Right, 1962.

Keep taking your meds.

Saying, "No I am not" does not come close to a whuppin in any county in America, except Prince George's county. And we don't live there.

[John D]

Rick K--
Thanks once again for your posts: you always have something interesting to say.
Howsomever, Ima nonplussed; I don't remember arguing--except to say that I prefer 72 degrees. I thought I was asking for info re:
"My own count (kept in a regular notebook) had "Hot Hot Hot" at 8 games, instead of five. And I thought there might have been one more rainout. But when I went online and checked my scrathed notations with actual game time temperatures and conditions, I found evidence that supports this Blog's count over my own."
Clearly, you were basing your opinion on factual temperatures, so I was just a'wonderin' what they were. Care to share?
Alternatively, since A. & C's numbers are obviously the same as yours, perhaps they would share theirs with us--and then we'd know what yours are!
What say you, A. & C.? What are the cut-offs? I'll bet that "Take me out" is right at 72 degrees!

[Rick K]

When is it 72 degrees here in the summer? And what Bay Area resident refuses to go outside when it is 73?

How absurd.

My personal notations are not based on tempertaures and humidity and wind. They are based on going outside and determining if it actually feels welcoming enough that I'd want to sit outside for a couple of hours.

The Times counts five "hot hot hot" days. I have eight in my category of "Africa Hot."

But none of my observations were made on the waterfront.

[John D]

OK. I get it. Thanks again.
Oh, and just one more thing. . . Did you actually sit outside for a couple hours in the sun when it feels 'welcoming' enough? The reason I ask is that I generally only feel welcome outside in the sun around 7 or 8 in the morning. Of course, I live just off 7th S near 4th, and it's not near the water either. I'm sure it's a lot cooler way down there.
Darn it--one more one more thing: I know where it IS 72 degrees in the summer, and it's only a few blocks west! It's called Tropicana Field. But that place is absurd. Everybody hates it.

[Good point]

10:09 am post:

Yep!

[Truth]

Not 72 degrees in the Trop.

Also not relevant. The Rays are seeking to vacate the Trop.

That is relevant.

[Good point]

Good point. Why would the conditions in the building we seek to tear down be relevant in any way to this topic?

[brandon]

writers and readers,
i played minor league baseball, college ball at miami, and high school in pinellas county. that umbrella gizmo will not work. i am a roving mlb facility manager which means i check out every stadium. bottom line, retractable roof is the only way to go. open it for april and october, keep it closed the rest of the time. st. pete council is like the u.s. congress, very inept indeed. hello wake up. i ask everyone debating this to go to houston and phoenix in the middle of the summer and go to a game there. they both have retractable roof stadiums. why do you think they did that, duh.

[Sure]

Sure.

[John D]

Friends, just a quick comment on the post by "Sure." This is my idea of the perfect post: it's concise, cogent, insightful, and pithy--without insulting our intelligence with false facts or supercilious opinion. Take heed, please. This is the sort of post that will elevate this discussion and perhaps bring us all the national--nay, international--attention we so richly deserve. Well done. I for one will attempt to emulate Sure: how 'bout. . . Shirley.