Lyash Backlash?

First, there was Rep. Rick Kriseman's video calling on City Hall to demand more from Jeff Lyash's stadium group.

Now, former City council member Viriginia Littrell, a member of Preserve Our Wallets and Waterfront, is calling for a citizen based task force. Here's the email she sent out this morning:

This statement from Rick Kriseman was not a surprise to me - he and I discussed these issues over a 2 hour lunch a few weeks ago. I am sure Rick wanted to give Mr. Lyash the benefit of the doubt, hoping for a truly representative panel, as we were all hoping for the best.

Of course Mr. Lyash has now made his MO clear which is why so many in the community are responding so vociferously. Now is the appropriate time to address the creation of a more representative panel....and address it loudly and clearly and publically.

I believe the city council should establish a citizen based baseball task force much as the council did for the future of Albert Whitted Airport.

It is stunning that the council allowed Mayor Baker to simply appoint a chair and move what should be a government investigation on behalf of the city and its citizens, into a privately controlled corporate climate. I would point out that the existance of the ABC Coalition does not preclude the city council from actually doing the people's business. They have a responsibility to obtain information regarding the continuation of baseball from sources other than those looking out for the interests of the Rays, and they have an obligation to prevent further community divisiveness.

They MUST establish a citizens Blue Ribbon Baseball Task Force charged with investigating all issues attendant to a major sports facility and return a complete and factully supported document to the council as their official advisement. The council will necessarily delegate municipal authority to the task force which will legally place its operation in the Sunshine, require the retention of public record, and establish easily available meeting locations for the public and of course meeting notice. It would also establish staff and financial support to run the task force and allow the progress to be posted on the city's website. The council would establish all of the above, plus the appointment process and the scope of work through an enabeling resolution. Adopting a resolution is a rather simple process. An ordinace is a little longer because of the first reading requirement, but if city legal wanted an enabeling ordinance that is certainly doeable as well.

I would think that the appointees, which should not include appointees from the Mayor since he has his own task force working, would elect their own chair and establish the needed subcommittees, further expanding the possibility for public input and citizen participation.

So, the answer to your question is "NO" we do not have to - and should not- rely upon ABC's private process to establish a guideline for the city's future. "YES" the city council can and should create a more legitimate process for the benefit of both the citizen's and the council's knowledge....and dare I add, for the knowledge of the Rays, who apparently have no idea what " due diligence" and "community participation" mean.

The city council owes this to the citizens and if they should fail to do this they have failed to provide fair and equal representation to the citizens on the issue of baseball. I was willing to give Mr. Lyash the benefit of the doubt and I am now willing to give the council the benefit of the doubt. Mr. Lyash disappointed me, but I have higher hopes for the council. Parhaps some of them are thinking along these lines already.

Virginia

Comments

[Tramor]

Virginia Littrell is an obese woman with nothing better to do than yell and scream. She has a major chip on her should and she believe she deserves to be heard because she has a disability in life - the disability that she is obese and that she lost her re-election campaign by the largest margin for any sitting council member. She lost 72% to 28%. She lost in her own neighborhood and lost on her own street. She's crass overbearing overweight nobody that doesn't deserve the attention of anyone in St. Petersburg.

[tim]

Like, Duh. Who in their right mind can't see through this Kangaroo Kommission fiasco set up to somehow legitimize spending public tax dollars on baseball WITHOUT CITIZEN APPROVAL? Demand your constitutional right to vote yes or no on a new stadium.

[Shannon Lathers]

Another prime example of efforts to just send our beloved Rays packing off to another community. Why not just bring back the green benchs downtown and say goodby to any notion of becoming a modern American city, the population is getting older anyway. We could put a new Web City right where the dome stands now.

[Pathetic that these people are my neighbors]

Green benches? Calling people disabled because they're obese and truly care about this city? Really?

Tramor & Shannon Lathers and their "beloved Rays" can take a 2 mile walk off the end of our "beloved Pier" as far as I'm concerned. They don't believe in widespread community input and a process in the sunshine because they don't care about anyone except themselves.

The ABC "coalition" is a joke. It became a joke the minute our mayor got involved. Jeff Lyash is just the punchline.

I have no doubt POWW is rightfully manufacturing new yard signs to FIGHT the corporate machine wanting to fleece the local taxpayers for their own self interests. I'll be first in line to put one in my yard.

The Rays continue to alientate local citizens who are their fan base. At some point, they will have to find a new market because they've turned everyone off baseball because of these shenanigans.

Bring back Spring Training, refurbish the Trop to last another 10 years, continue putting a quality product on the field to build the fan base you seek, or just leave. We don't need a new stadium right now.

For all of you who want a new stadium, I suggest you petition the Rays to sell shares of stock in the team for the purpose of privately financing your own playground and buy all the shares you wish. They can buy their own land AND pay taxes on it just like the rest of us business/home owners in St. Pete.

[bert]

Somebody stand up and represent the taxpayers who will pay for this, instead of the people who will make money on the buying, selling and building. Is here anyone out there?

[mrclean]

The leadership style is called 'writing a check.' A new stadium is not going to happen 'on the waterfront' or 'with new tax dollars.' I can see ToyTown land give-away and infrastructure. These guys are no leaders. When their (I should say corporate) money runs out, so does their leadership skills.

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Pathetic,
I couldn't agree more with you about the disgusting post from Tramor. More than revealing anything about the "size" of Virginia Littrell it shows the COMPLETE LACK of size in his BB brain. But I suspect I give Tramor too much credit...I doubt he has a fully formed human brain but the typical vestigial brain found in salamanders, lizards, and losers like Tramor. In all of the invective I've seen spewed Tramor takes the award from the most classless, ignorant post in the history of this blog.
And realize Tramor you pea brain you show your dumbfounding ignorance only a week after John Romano's article on Ray's attendance.
Reading John Romano's front page article on the Ray's attendance woes should be enough to incense every St. Petersburg taxpayer, and completely embarrass certain elected officials, and all the pro stadium losers like Tramor and Bobby Fenton. Romano's article contained the following, "Already, there are people in the (Ray's) organization who are suggesting it was a blessing in disguise for the waterfront stadium proposal to fall through. Already, there is talk that downtown St. Petersburg is hopeless as a major-league market and that a location in Hillsborough County might be the answer."

Is this not a conversation the Ray's out of touch management should have had before putting our city through seven months of civil war? Pitting friend against friend, citizens against their government? Subjecting people like Virginia and many others to vicious personal ad hominem attacks. Just TWO MONTHS AFTER THEY TRIED TO SCAM OUR TAXPAYERS FROM OUR WATERFRONT AND OUR TAXDOLLARS THEY ADMIT IT WAS PROBABLY A BAD IDEA. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE PEOPLE. Shouldn't they have done more due diligence BEFORE wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars of city staff time on their proposal? BEFORE requiring our citizens to attend several highly contentious city council meetings?

What kind of business plan threatens to disrupt a city's historic and revered waterfront, one of the best in the entire United States, when these questions hadn't yet been thoroughly vetted? What kind of people can be so cavalier about the city where they do business as to ask for close to a half billion dollars of taxpayer assistance, and then just two month's later state " it was a blessing in disguise for the waterfront stadium proposal to fall through…downtown St. Petersburg is hopeless as a major-league market. "

Just TWO MONTHS after the failure of their proposal they call it, "A BLESSING IN DISGUISE" Does this mean the Rays ownership feels a debt of gratitude to the members of POWW who volunteered thousands of man hours for providing them this blessing? Maybe the Rays should call Virginia Littrell and apologize for the abuse she has had to take from IDIOTS like tramor.

[Tramor]

Pathetic...these neighbors are the same ones that voted Virginia "Big" Littrell out of office. We support a new Rays stadium. We aren't bitter because we lost a council race by 44% points. We are just tired of these so called community activists that hide in their homes and complain all the time. Virginia, come out from you home and talk to your neighbors on your block and your neighborhood, the same neighbors that voted you out of office.

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Tramor,

Go back to school buddy...if you ever went in the first place and you'll learn the double negative in your last sentence completes the exposure of your true ignorance.

PS Jeff Lyash...perhaps you should read the editorial letters today. Your own company is in a Public Relations nightmare because of your egregious 30+% rate increase request.

Really is anyone paying attention in this city. Do we want to pay 30% more so some rich guy in Seminole has free time to conspire with other corporate interests about how to spend OUR taxdollars. It might be time for some letters to Progress Energy asking how they can pay a high six figure salary to somebody who is spending so much time lobbying for baseball.

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Tramor you moron,

You know nothing!!! If the community had been in favor of a waterfront stadium it would never have been pulled off the table!!! The "so called community activists" you speak of did not hide in their homes!!! FAR FROM IT PEA BRAIN!!!
They went out and spoke to Community Associations, Civic Groups, Churches and met with folks from EVERY PART of our city from the South to the North and the East to the West. Either you are blind or color blind tramor...do you think those red signs just came from nowhere?
You sound like some other stadium supporter who bragged he NEVER WAS INVOLVED in city issues before the stadium. Never attended a council meeting, much less served on a commission or board. Never showed up for Vision 20/20, not one meeting concerning our city's new Land Development Regulations. I find it ludicrous that you losers sit on the sideline and take cheap shots a people who do show up and CARE ABOUT THEIR CITY...while you sit on your butts and say things like "so called community activists" as if loving one's city enough to be involved is a sin. Ohhh but I'm sure in tramor logic it's only a sin when the result is something that doesn't please tramor.

[Limey]

For 10+ years, as I travelled for business, people would ask me where I was from in casual conversations. I'd proudly say that I was born & raised in St. Petersburg. Then the chuckling began from whomever I was speaking to. They weren't chuckling about obese former council members or green benches, they were chuckling and openly making fun of my home town because of the ridiculous "Devil Rays". These people have never even been to my hometown but here they are making fun of it simply because we hosted the laughing stock of Major League Baseball for the past decade.

How people can say this laughing stock is a "huge asset to our community" is beyond me.

They are not a major employer.

They barely pay any rent or taxes in this city.

They don't generate jack squat to the local economy. All they do is shift discretionary spending away from other local businesses.

Tampa Bay is known for the Lightning and the Bucs....not the Rays.

St. Petersburg is famous for it's beaches and downtown waterfront. And up until this year, our historic spring training and grapefruit league.

Even the Rays themselves have recently admitted that St. Pete (and Tampa Bay in general) is likely hopeless as a MLB market.

So...why support a team that doesn't support it's own community? Seems to me the only thing the new owners have done is try and force a half-billion dollars in taxpayer funded construction down our throats in the name of "a great asset to this community"...hogwash.

[MATT]

Everyone should quit bickering about the stadium. It is quite clear St. Pete does not deserve the Rays. A few years from now when they leave and go to Orlando we will change the discussion to "it would be great to go to a baseball game." But hey we have the fenced-in Albert W. Field to enjoy, which is also subsidized.

[justin]

This is coming from a guy that wants Floridians to pay 31% more for electricity to prepay for his construction costs.

http://www.fireprogressenergy.com

[Nate]

You want baseball and spring training back but don't go to games. Is that what I'm hearing? I hate saying it but our team may not be ours long. I go and support any thing that will keep the team in St. Pete. And if not here then in Tampa.

[B]

Justin,
If you don't like the cost of electricity, don't buy it. Its just like any other product available for you to purchase. I'm tired of the socialist, entitled attitude that I see day in and day out on this site. Work hard, get a better job, make more money. Thats the way it works, don't like it? Try China.

[Quit Bossing me Around]

I'm sick and tired of fat, old St Pete losers telling me what's good for the city. Spend your time sprucing up your trailer, and leave the rest of us alone.

Find a real goal in life, like moving away. Go ruin somebody elses good time.

[justin]

Hey B. Maybe you need a refresher on your economics and history. A free market society is what separates this country from China. Not subsidized businesses.

[Thomas]

This never stops amusing me:
"It is quite clear St. Pete does not deserve the Rays."

Right, because St.Pete built them a stadium, leased it to them for next to nothing, allowed the team to capture non-baseball revenue from the stadium, etc, etc.

Meanwhile the Rays have charged high prices for seats and concessions while fielding the worst team in baseball for a decade. Now they want out of their 30 year lease after just 10 years.

So really, who "deserves" what? The people of St.Pete have been extremely generous to the Rays. The team cannot exactly say the same thing.

"A few years from now when they leave and go to Orlando."
Um, seriously, who is going to pay to build a baseball stadium in Orlando? Certainly not the taxpayers who just took on over $1B in debt on "entertainment facilities" - get a clue man.

[Brad]

If you guys were half as passionate with your baseball as you are your Podunk politics the Rays could build a stadium out of gold bricks.

[Dale]

Here we go. You people that don't want a stadium must just sit at your computers waiting for the slightest mention of the words "new" and "stadium" appearing in the same story. Do you have jobs?

Please move the team to Tampa. Then I could double the number of games that I attend per year from 20 to 40. Not to mention place it closer proximity to actual people and not water.

[Thomas]

Dale,

You misidentified the words... It's not "new" and "stadium" that people care about. It's "public" and "funding".

The Rays are more than welcome to pay their own tab anywhere or anytime they want. No questions asked.

[Dale]

Thomas,

I don't recall ever seeing the words "public" and "funding" in this article, and I don't see them on the coalition's website anywhere. Yet all the people are on here screaming and yelling, which makes me think that they flat don't want the Rays here at all. I honestly believe that if the Rays came out tomorrow saying they were going to foot the entire bill for a new stadium in St. Pete, these POWW people and other opponents would be protesting that as well.

[Sabine]

The point of the original posting is that the citizens of St. Petersburg need to be represented on any body that is making decisions about this much of their money. It is much like the "Let Us Vote" signs that the Fans for a Waterfront Stadium sprinkled around.

So now, POWW! is saying the same thing as the Fans, and its wrong??? I am confused.

[Thomas]

Dale,

I think the "public funding" is implied. Why else would you need a coalition appointed by the mayor?

If the Rays were going to pay their own tab for once, they wouldn't need Jeff Lyash or his ABC right?

[None of the Above]

Not One Dime of Taxpayer Money...

Not Today...

Not Tomorrow...

Not Ever...

If They Leave, It's Unfortunate, but Cheaper than the Alternative.

[mrclean]

Well, I guess the ABC is now DOA. What is next?

[John D]

Heh. trulyconcerned has my vote, as usual, but I'm worried that he's in big trouble: he has libeled salmanders & lizards, and I'm afraid the Geico lawyers are gonna come after him.
And he did make one (really small) mistake--you see, it's not a "pea brain," it's the brain OF a pea. Prepositions matter.
Sorry to be so critical, but what are friends for?

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

John D.

I stand corrected. :-)

[Cathy Wilson]

My neighbors posted more POWW signs in the last few months than I've ever seen here for any political campaign, candidate or issue before. The red signs outnumbered the blue by a 10 to 1 margin here.

The people who live here and posted all those red signs aren't rich, don't run big corporations or aspire to political office and are usually polite enough to refrain from intense political discussions at neighborhood gatherings. They seem to instinctively understand that there is a diverse spread of viewpoints here and have no wish to insult or offend anyone. Yet they vote, and continue to vote in spite of lackluster candidates and sometimes confusing issues. They feel pretty strongly about being allowed to vote on the issues too and don't mind letting their elected officials know it.

Regardless of what the ABC Coalition decides or promotes, my guess is that the series of decisions that need to be made on the Rays proposals will ultimately go to the voters. Our elected officials have demonstrated a remarkable reluctance to make any decisions or actually LEAD on the Rays issues. Who else will make those decisions if our elected representatives do not?

In the end, those who vote will decide whether the Rays get to fleece us or if common sense will prevail. Based strictly on a sign tally and the turnout in the recent primary, I'd suspect that there'll be no new stadium either on or off the waterfront unless the Rays pay for it themselves.

How can I possibly make that prediction you ask?
You need to see what I see daily - all those red signs here are in the yards of the people in my neighborhood who VOTE!!

[Cathy Wilson]

My neighbors posted more POWW signs in the last few months than I've ever seen here for any political campaign, candidate or issue before. The red signs outnumbered the blue by a 10 to 1 margin here.

The people who live here and posted all those red signs aren't rich, don't run big corporations or aspire to political office and are usually polite enough to refrain from intense political discussions at neighborhood gatherings. They seem to instinctively understand that there is a diverse spread of viewpoints here and have no wish to insult or offend anyone. Yet they vote, and continue to vote in spite of lackluster candidates and sometimes confusing issues. They feel pretty strongly about being allowed to vote on the issues too and don't mind letting their elected officials know it.

Regardless of what the ABC Coalition decides or promotes, my guess is that the series of decisions that need to be made on the Rays proposals will ultimately go to the voters. Our elected officials have demonstrated a remarkable reluctance to make any decisions or actually LEAD on the Rays issues. Who else will make those decisions if our elected representatives do not?

In the end, those who vote will decide whether the Rays get to fleece us or if common sense will prevail. Based strictly on a sign tally and the turnout in the recent primary, I'd suspect that there'll be no new stadium either on or off the waterfront unless the Rays pay for it themselves.

How can I possibly make that prediction you ask?
You need to see what I see daily - all those red signs here are in the yards of the people in my neighborhood who VOTE!!

[huh?]

Atrulyconcernedcitizen my a**. Sounds more like a Yankee fan to me. I pray that they move this team to Tampa. I'm sick and tired of hearing the crying from St. Pete residents (most, not all) about this team. I can hear it racing across the Gandy bridge. Quit your crying. Someone said the ticket prices are to high? Are you serious or are you still getting your low grade crack from the street corners in St. Pete? Have you been to a game outside of the Trop? Other teams fans would kill for these prices. Quit your crying, and support this team. One guy said it best up there. If you showed half the passion on the Rays as you guys do on this board, the Trop would be filled every game. You guys make me sick! Go Rays!

[matt]

I agree. The rays offer one of the best bargains around, especially considering they are one of the best teams in baseball.

[Thomas]

I love this logic: "Have you been to a game outside of the Trop? Other teams fans would kill for these prices."

So because other teams charge even more absurd prices, that means the Rays prices are not expensive?

Brilliant. Simply brilliant. I imagine you also would say that $4 for a gallon of gas is a great deal, because it's $4.10 somewhere else.

The cost of an evening of entertainment provided by the Rays is expensive. And you know what they want to do? They want to make it MORE expensive in a new stadium. The kicker is they want the public to pay for a building and then allow the team to gouge them to walk into the building that same public paid for.

So, it's not me who's on crack...

[Dugger727]

Don't you get it....? You thought you elected representatives...?
What we have are people in office that think their our leaders! We don't elected "leaders". We the people are leaders....they simply represent our lead.

[Dr_Dug]

Simple mathmatics...invest a little now, get the City to commit to a $400 million stadium....then triple your Companies worth from 150 million to 650 million. Not bad for a couple years work....

[Seen it..]

Have you seen the Owners home? Their cars? They live the life of royalty....so they can spend their own cash for a bigger company. Now....if we get to own shares in the Rays Organization...then maybe St.Pete can score when the team is sold!

[huh?]

Thomas, so let me get this straight, if you were at a street corner and you saw a gas station selling gas for $4.00 and another gas station right across the street selling for $4.10, you would go to the $4.10 gas station? That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard and I would beleve everyone here would agree with me. You are as believeable as Troy Percival coming in to save a game. Have you ever been to Fenway Park? Have you heard about the $7.50 for a beer? How about $4.00 for a hot dog at Yankee Stadium? You are kidding yourself if you think that the Rays tickets are not affordable. I went to the game over the weekend and bought two tickets behind the plate for less than $60.00. Do you have any idea what ticket prices cost for those same seats for a first place team anywhere else? No, I'm sure you don't because I'm sure you are one of those cry babies who go to only a few games a year and b**ch and moan because prices are to high. IF THEY ARE TO HIGH, STAY HOME! NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO GO TO THE GAMES. If you dont give two craps about this team, then stay home. I would rather have fans in the seats who stand by this team win or lose. The fans in Tampa have done it for the Bucs as well as the Lightning. We are lucky to have a team here instead of living in some podunk town where you have to drive 2-3 hours away just to see major league baseball. You're kidding yourself if you think the Trops ticket prices are not affordable and if you think they aren't, try getting into Shea, Fenway, The Metrodome, Citizens Bank, Dodger Stadium, or any other contenting playoff team for cheap. Good luck I-275 is that-a-way.

[jdb]

I don't know why people assume opponents of a new stadium (or the Rays in general) would attend even one baseball game. It's apparent to me that backers of the Rays see their value to the community and those who don't like baseball don't. (For my money, the Bucs could leave town tomorrow, since I hate football. But I realize I don't speak for the community.)

As much as I would love to see the new waterfront stadium built, I think the Rays have to prove (with a few years of good baseball) that this area can support a major league team. I have my doubts.

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Huh,

How long have you lived here? The Tampons did NOT support the Bucs until the Glazers finally used the entire salary cap and put a winner on the field.

I personally had season tickets to the Lightning from the first year of the Davidson group's ownership. 3-5,000 folks would attend and most of the entertainment was vignettes on the scoreboard and games with the crowd, grabbing video shots of couples with font underneath saying kiss me. Then the team won a Stanley Cup and the crowds came. In case you rocket scientists haven't figured it out yet..the new Lightning ownership has committed a huge increase in player salaries and been VERY aggressive in building the team yet they are over 1,000 season tickets BELOW last year.
Meanwhile the defending Division Champion Bucs are having difficulty selling out their home games and may not televise them all. The Rays are UP 25% and that's not enough.
For those of you pit bull kissing idiots who haven't figured it out yet... 8 years ago our nation had a surplus..not a HUGE deficit. We had come off of 8 years with average family income increasing by $7,000. Now we're coming off 8 years with family income DECREASING $2,000. What part of the stench of this economy are you unable to recognize? If somebody placed a big pile of dooty under your nose would you recognize the smell? Not if it was pit bull dooty I guess!!!!

[Thomas]

Dear "Huh?"

You need remedial reading courses. The point of the gas analogy - which clearly you missed because you have a below average intellect - is that $4 gas is still expensive; regardless of the fact it's cheaper than $4.10.

You're so misguided, you proved the point again by comparing prices from Shea, Fenway, etc. Just because it's "insanely" expensive to go to a game in Boston doesn't mean that it's not "absurdly" expensive to go to a game in St. Pete.

This is not a difficult concept - even for a simpleton like you - to understand.

Rays tickets are expensive. They are not as expensive as tickets to Yankee Stadium. But, comparing an expensive item to a more expensive item does not make either item more affordable.

But I do think it's cute that you feel everyone here would "agree with you" when you're not even smart enough to read and comprehend the analogy or the point.

Lastly, I'm not sure how you got two tickets behind homeplate for less than $60 when anyone can look up the boxseat prices and see they are $40 each for a "non prime" game.

[guy]

The Ray's can't bunt,
SO

They will lose the division and probably wont make the playoff's
Maybe Next year they will learn to sacrifice bunt.
But not by Madden.

REmember the above words when you are watching the Red Sox in the playoff's

[harry]

If the Rays don't make the playoffs that proves they need a new stadium. If they had a waterfront stadium they would be untouchable and they wouldn't have to move to Tampa.

[guy]

Let us be clear Obama is a Muslim.
Obama speaks fluent Arabic, how can this be if he was raised by his grandparents as he say's.

Check this out~~~

1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "not available"
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- "not available"
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None
13.His Record of baptism-- Not released or "not available"
14. His Illinois State Senate records--"not available"

[atrulyconcernedcitizen]

Guy,

Let us be CLEAR!!! I don't know if you are a Muslim and if you are that's your business. But it's very clear from your post you are not a Christian.

You have just posted an entire list of absolute LIES!..Violating the 9th Commandment. "THOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR."
Reading this moronic crap on a website does not make you innocent of the offense. It's been CLEARLY DOCUMENTED that Obama is not a Muslim!!!!!!!!!

Of course perhaps you're the Sarah Palin type of Christian. I'm not sure which of Jesus' Christ's teachings you all follow. Given that his most famous teachings, intended for all of us...the masses..were delivered in his famous and very successful Sermon on the Mount. It was there He needed to perform his miracle with the fishes and loaves to feed the HUGE crowd he drew!
And He taught us the 8 Beatitudes.
Which of these teachings do you suppose Pork Barrel Palin was follwing in her speech and her record of governances.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit for their's is the Kingdom of Heaven"
(Do you suppose Jesus was pleased with Pork Barrel's mocking of community activists. What a sad state. Obama tries to help people who lost jobs get new jobs and get retrained and he gets mocked for his efforts. He should have been a good republican and taken the Wall Street Money after Harvard.)

"Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain Mercy."
(After trying to fire two people in her first decision as Mayor of Wasilla do you suppose Pork Barrel is regarded as merciful.)

"Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth".
(Do you really suppose Jesus had a pit bull with lipstick in mind when he was referring to meek. Is there anybody out there with enough lunacy to classify Sarah Palin as Meek????)

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called Children of God!"
(Could I get another chorus of Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran please?)

It's truly mind boggling that idiots like guy are to full of themselves to realize they are nothing more than Islamic Fundamentalists in Christian robes spreading lies and distortions.
"I was against the bridge to nowhere."
THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE LIE...CAN'T YOU GUYS JUST ADMIT IT?
McCain...Sarah sold the jet on ebay at a profit. THAT IS FACTUAL LIE!!!!!
She listed the plane on ebay...it DIDN'T SELL...So she went to an aircraft broker and sold it at more than a half million dollar loss..DOESN'T THE TRUTH MATTER AT ALL HERE?
Listen we could all debate the merits of the size and role of government but as long as we divert ourselves with lies the debate will NEVER BE HONEST!!!
Einstein famously said...doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is a definition of insanity. Do you suppose voting a 3rd time for a Repub Amin and expecting a different outcome might be heading down that slippery slope.
Guy until you get a brain and find some actual facts why don't you give it up.
You are not a patriot but rather a nasty traitor who is trying to pervert our election.

[Scaramouche]

Kalt just made it real plain what this is all about. "Poor people stay home and watch games on TV. Rich people go to games." And it's all about taking more money off those rich people; in his screw-you double-speak that's known as "monetizing" them.

Ain't any kind of reason to give them carpetbagging freeloaders a nickel for a stadium. If they want it so bad, they can damn well afford to man up, do like the Giants and their "rich people" did, and buy their own.

Harry and guy -- which is it? one of you says if the Rays players can't make the playoffs, that "proves" the need for a new stadium. The other says the Rays won't make the ML Big
Time because they can't bunt. Anyone taken a logic course, or used their brains lately? Which statement is "provably" "true?"

And if these boys "need" a new stadium to "make the playoffs," which is of course not the same as "win the World Series," there's NO logical link that gets you to a "proof" that the taxpayers here (including all those fixed-income Cotton-Tops and Blue-Hairs you butts sneer at but who built this area and the country you would so happily bleed for your personal pleasure, and people who have no use for MLB) ought to give a billion-dollar subsidy to the babyfaces from Long Island. By going into big time debt in a time of economic decline. With no "federal government" (that, of course, is a smokescreen shorthand for "us dumb taxpayers," but we ARE dumb enough to think it's some marvelous cornucopia that can pour out infinite piles money) to bail US out when things go bad, the Rays owners can't "monetize" enough bucks to suit them out of the "rich people" around here, and do a "Colts bolt" some foggy night.

[John D]

I just noticed that little guy posted his Sen. Obama rant on this thread. Heh. I'd invite him to notice the title of this thread, but that would be futile, since he'd have to figure out the meaning of "backlash." Instead, I'll ask him this: would you kindly look up the name "Lyash" and connect it with "Obama" for us?
Never mind--I got it: they both have five letters!

[Cathy Wilson]

John,
Guy's just become bored with shredding what remains of Howard Troxler's blog and is all tuckered out from the effort. Ignore him and he'll dry up and blow away. He bloviates best when he's paid any kind of attention - even the BAD kind.

Guy, it's bedtime - go to your room and turn off the light now or Daddy will spank your little behind.

[Scaramouche]

And one more time--

THOUGHT SLAVERY HAD BEEN OUTLAWED!

In an early Times story flacking the stadium subsidy, there appeared this quote, from a former Pittsburgh mayor who graduated from encumbering his “small market” town with a huge stadium subsidy payment to pimping public ballpark subsidies for other teams. It read something like “Cities give stadiums to MLB teams. It is the way it is.”

Maybe he’s right. Maybe the average people in most of the 28 cities who are "blessed" with the chance to “host” an MLB team will always be dumb or weak enough to suffer under the same kinds of "nobles" who forced the medieval serfs into grinding poverty, making them struggle for barely enough to keep alive under taxes and fees that just grew and grew. And for why? So these self-anointed “lords” could ride around on big horses, wearing grotesque, and grotesquely expensive, tin suits and silk brocade, with their high-tech (for the day) shiny swords and maces and lances. Which they bought with the blood and sweat they drained from those same serfs, and which they used to intimidate the serfs into prostrate subjugation, and occasionally to take a cut at one another. So this “nobility of power” could spend their days in “romance,” learning important things like the collective nouns for animals (one “lark”, an “exultation of larks”), dreaming up high-flown excuses for adultery and such, and enjoying the toadying of the lesser classes. Maybe the peasants will not recall that “hosting” is what prey species do to parasites, like leeches and tapeworms.

Now we have full-court-pressing, or maybe it’s full-press-courting if you read the Times, to let the tax-and-fee-paying public know that once again, they will pay to let the “lords” play. We’re told that father-son bonding at MLB, Inc. games, and a “winning home” (but ultimately portable) team,” provide such huge psychic value that we-all should just sign blank checks and hand over our 21% credit cards to “baseball developers.” We’re fed a sob story about how “our” team’s owners are gasping in poverty (compared to other “lords of MLB, Inc.” at least) due to the “enormous millstone” of the (publicly purchased and still publicly underwritten) Trop which they apparently willingly hung around their own necks.

But look at what the “really profitable” ballparks contain. Leather seats in high-end lounges, where the blessed can’t really even see the game. A place for the rich to “show off.” Ticket prices that clearly define the divide between “the poor,” who can just afford stay at home and watch on TV, and “the rich,” who plunk their expensively clad butts on the leather seats installed for their comfortable ease by the debts and taxes loaded onto “the poor” to pay off a billion-dollar “subsidy.”

Of course, there is NO ATTENTION GIVEN to what the Rays owners themselves pointed out in their initial PowerPoint slides last year -- that at least four MLB franchises ostensibly put up their pleasure palaces WITH NO PUBLIC FUNDING, or maybe very little. San Francisco is roughly market-equivalent to the Bay Area. And after the voters spoke very clearly in multiple referenda that they would not knuckle under for that billion-dollar subsidy, the team people managed to find their own means of financing AT&T Field, and are now in the upper ranges of MLB, Inc. profitability.

Which, as the Times pages make clear, is what this is all about. The stories to date skip right past the initial question of whether the peasants of the world owe a high-off-the-hog life to people who have turned the National Pastime into their own personal Cash Cow. They assume “It is the way it is.” Glossing over the fact that the statement is not uniformly true, and in this world should not be true.

The average taxpayer is already reeling under the cost of tax-cuts-that-somehow-result-in-higher-tax-bills, bailouts and just living day to day. If this subsidy thing is ever submitted to a vote, which appears highly unlikely given the government-corporate machinations now under way, what sane person would find any merit in the idea that he or she has a public duty to ensure that the team owners are guaranteed a higher profit on their very private asset? Then again, I guess we have all been proven pretty stupid so many Times in the past that maybe these grifting snake-oil salesmen will pull it off again.

“It is the way it is?” Say it ain’t so, Joe!