Cycling do's and don'ts

The Times' Lorrie Lykins recently addressed a concern from a reader complaining about group rides in Pinellas County in her Dr. Delay column:

Irritated with cyclists who don't observe the "share the road" principle? You're not alone. Questions about the legality of cyclists' biking on area roads in packs hit the Doc's mailbox weekly.

Bill Balmer of Seminole recently wrote: "I frequently travel Indian Rocks /Oakhurst Road in Largo and Seminole on Sunday mornings. I usually see a bicycle group heading north with a lineup of cars behind them Indian Rocks Road is one lane in each direction. This group consists of 25 cyclists or more. This morning I happened to be northbound and got caught behind them. They paid no attention to the cars backed up behind them and rode as many as four abreast. There was no way that any cars could safely pass."

Balmer said that as the pack approached one traffic signal, it turned red but the pack proceeded through it. He wonders what can be done about cyclists' flouting traffic laws and endangering themselves and others.

We shared Balmer's concerns with Sgt. Jim Bordner of the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office. Bordner said Florida law prohibits bicyclists from riding more than two abreast except when they are on paths or parts of roads set aside for their use.

Also, "bicyclists who are riding two abreast may not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic," Bordner said.

Florida statutes also state that a bicyclist has all the rights and assumes all of the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle, so a cyclist must stop for stop signs and traffic signals.

Florida law also requires that bicyclists riding on a public road at less than the normal speed of traffic ride as close as possible to the right-hand curb or edge of the road except when they are overtaking another bicycle or vehicle traveling in the same direction. Exceptions to the right-hand-curb requirement: preparing for a left turn or avoiding an unsafe situation, or if the lane is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel side by side safely.

Bordner said he would forward Balmer's concerns to the commander of the sheriff's patrol operations bureau.

Group riders running red lights should never happen and I can't say I've seen it happen, but there will always be bad behavior. There must be a way to reach a consensus about how we can continue the group rides and do so in a responsible manner.

Comments

[Tad]

Well first off, when driving behind a group of cyclists, they may be riding two a breast, yet it may seem like four a breast to the car behind, as the cyclists will be staggered all the way back. Secondly, if you are in a hurry, why not choose a larger four lane road? Third, any lane less that 9 feet wide is considered "substandard" and unfit for a bicycle and a car. So that pretty much makes every two lane road in pinellas substandard. Which means a solo cyclist has the right to take the whole lane.
As far as running red lights goes, if the first rider in the group goes thru under green or yellow, the rest can follow just as if the are a big bus, or truck. Mr Balmer should learn the true state statutes and find a different route now that he knows the bike group will be on those roads every sunday.

[Dave]

True that any lane less than 9 feet wide is considered sub-standard and unfit for a car and bicycle according to Florida State Statute. Motorists really have no clue about cyclists rights to the roads, nor do the Sheriffs department have a clue what the real laws are, or how to enforce them.

[Mike]

Enjoy your automobile while you can Balmer. The bicycle was here long before the car, and will be here long after the cars are gone.
That Sunday group is well within thier rights to ride on the roadway.

[Chris]

Upfront apologies for this being so long, and I know I'm probably preaching to the converted on this blog, but here is an e-mail I sent to Ms. Lykins:

I am one of those cyclists Mr. Blamer refers to and my short answer is "Poppycock!"

This group is comprised of highly-skilled, serious recreational cyclists, most of whom are business professionals, doctors and business owners on high-end bicycles. Just about all of us wear helmets. We cycle for recreation and the health benefits we derive from this popular activity. We ride as a group early on Sunday mornings to avoid traffic and the dangers that go along with vehicles in close proximity.

We usually average 22 - 24 mph on Indian Rocks Road. We ride two abreast, with one line hugging the right curb, and the other line about 2-3 feet to the left. This is the safest situation for all parties concerned, as our group, from front-to-back, is much more compact than we would be if we rode single - file. The only exception to riding two abreast is when the leaders intentionally drop from the front to the back to conserve energy.

At the speed we are riding, we are similar to a slow moving vehicle, and most vehicles pass us easily in areas where normal passing is allowed. If there is a line of cars behind us, it is because the first driver behind us lacks the skill to pass us safely or because we are in a no-passing area.

Further, according to the exception to the right-curb requirement you cite, if the lane is "too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel side by side safely," - perhaps we should just take up the entire lane, but we don't, because we don't want to jeopardize our own safety nor create an unnecessary inconvenience to motorists.

The ONLY other time our group may be four abreast is when we stop at one of the major intersections, clustered all in one of the three available lanes. Once again, this is the safest, most practical approach, as we remain quite compact and we can all get through the traffic light when it changes to green.

Admittedly, there are times when the group's leaders reach the light just as it turns yellow and the riders towards the back of the pack travel through a light which has just changed to red. This is comparable to an eighteen-wheeler approaching a traffic signal when it turns to yellow and the back of the truck going through a light which has changed to red. Again, this is the safest solution for our group, because if some of us are stopping while others are moving forward, we would all be rolling up each other's backs.

For Mr. Balmer to suggest that we are a) violating the law; b) a nuisance to vehicular drivers; and c) operating in an unsafe manner - is absolutely ludicrous. We are all well aware of what will happen in case of an accident. If we, the cyclists, make a mistake, we pay the price. Likewise, if drivers make a mistake, cyclists pay the price.

For the record, i have been riding with this group nearly every Sunday for sixteen months and I have not seen an accident of any type - cycle-cycle; cycle-car; or an individual wiping out.

i encourage you to come out in a car with an open mind and see for yourself. The primary group leaves from the St. Petersburg Library at 8:30 am and joins another group coming off a 30 mile roundtrip to Pass-A-Grille. We connect at Park Boulevard and 137th St. N. in Seminole, usually between 9:10 - 9:15 am. From there, we travel north, as Mr. Balmer claims, and we reach Belleair at around 9:45 am.

[I'm Just A Girl ...]

First let me say that I agree 100% with everything that Chris said. It was also very well written and very accurate. I also ride with that same Sunday group about twice a month. Those guys make a conscious effort to ride within their rights and make every attempt not to impede traffic. Unlike some of the other groups in the surrounding areas in which I have not only witnessed, but been a party to as well. Here's what I believe: I believe that there are people out there who are always going to find something to complain about no matter what. It is in their nature to complain. They are not completely whole unless they are moaning and grumbling about something and calling police to report something. So, that leaves me with only one way to think and that is that I can't possibly make all drivers happy no matter how close to the curb I ride or no matter how I try to accomodate them while I'm riding.

I got yelled at this morning while riding alone. I still can't figure out what she was angry about, but she was angry! I was on a road heading straight, there were no lights or stop signs for several blocks, I was riding inside the bike lane and I was probably doing about 19 or 20 mph looking straight ahead, minding my own business. So you see, there is nothing that a person can do to please all the people all the time.

So whenenver I go out either alone or with the group, I just keep in the back of my mind that I'm going out there to get a workout in so that someday I don't have a stroke and drop dead on some city street somewhere or have a massive heart attack in the grocery store line. During every ride I do I'll probably run across at least 2 kooks in cars and maybe even a couple of kooks on bikes. After my ride, I'll go home, get ready for work and to hell with trying to make all these drivers happy.

It'll never happen!

OH! And a P.S to Mr.Balmer and all the other mean drivers out there who've cursed and yelled at me - Be careful cause when you need it the most, I might be the one you're looking up at after we load you into the ambulance after your massive heart attack (I'm a local paramedic)! ;D

[I'm Just a Girl]

oops..I always forget to say this whenever I write something here! I'd like to send a HUGE thank you to whomever is responsible for putting this blog together! This is awesome...thankyouthankyouthankyou!!

[Chip Haynes]

"As far as running red lights goes, if the first rider in the group goes thru under green or yellow, the rest can follow just as if the are a big bus, or truck."

WHAT??? Show me the Florida law that allows you to run a red light because "you're with them". I dare you. I triple dog dare you. It ain't there. Each cyclist is an individual vehicle, and each is repossbile for obeying the law as such. Can you imagine if this (lack of) mentality and irresponsibility were to rub off on the car-driving community? We'd have even more cars and trucks running red lights because "I'm with them".

You're embarrassing me here. This is why I ride alone.

[Tim]

Better pull your pants up Chip, you are embarrassing yourself. According to Dave Saunders of the SPPD, the group is considered a big bus. Are you telling me that when the whole group gets pulled over, you think you can sneak off and not be cited too? Moron.

[Mel Lucas]

First let me say that I'm not condoning cyclists running red lights here. It's very dangerous for cyclists OR motorists, for that matter, to run red lights. What I am saying is that it's not always the easist or the safest thing to do while riding in a large group. You see, when part of a group gets through a light and part of it gets caught back, that second half of the group is going to sit there in front of other traffic that is backed up behind them. This only causes traffic back ups at lights which also pisses drivers off. It's better and more sensible for everyone, including motorists, if the entire group flows through the light as opposed to half of the cyclists sitting there blocking traffic when the light turns green again. Plus, not only that but, depending on the circumstances, it's also very difficult for a group to come to an abrupt & complete stop at a light that has just changed to red, especially if the group is moving fast.

I had to chuckle a little bit when you wrote that our mentality is rubbing off on the driving community or you talked about the possibility of this happening! You must live in a cave because if you've traveled in or around this county latetly, you'd have seen that there are some very serious traffic infractions occurring at every single intersection in this county, every single day! Not only are there motorists blatantly running red lights everywhere you go, but NO ONE EVER comes to a full & complete stop, which by the way is the law, at a 4-way stop sign ANYWHERE in Pinellas County! So...um....I'm not quite sure what you meant about, can I imagine if this irresponsible mentality were to rub off of motorists.

[Officer Friendly - Crunching Numbers Dept.]

Even more cars and trucks running red lights? Jesus! The last time I looked at the stats, there are already over 1,115 photos of motor vehicles traveling underneath cameras at major intersections per 8 hour period, every day in Pinellas and Hillsborough Counties! (the cameras are set up to take a photo only when the light is red)

If that number continues to go up, the two counties will set records for traffic fatalities in the next 12 month period!

Not to sound like I'm posting in favor of cyclists here, but the truth of the matter is that there are thousands more motorists breaking the laws than there are cyclists breaking them...and at the accident scenes I've been at (which have been too many to count) a car that breaks a traffic law does a heck of alot more property damage and causes alot more bodily injury than any bicycle I've seen.

Drive and ride safe out there everyone.

[Chris]

Chip,
You should be embarrassed.

As someone who is a prolific writer, you should know that if you are going to suggest statements were made by someone else by using quotation marks, you should quote the person verbatim. Or if your quotation marks are intended to represent your interpretation of my statements, you have the responsibility as a writer to state that.

Here is the statement you suggest was mine:
"As far as running red lights goes, if the first rider in the group goes thru under green or yellow, the rest can follow just as if the are a big bus, or truck."

Here is what I actually wrote:
"Admittedly, there are times when the group's leaders reach the light just as it turns yellow and the riders towards the back of the pack travel through a light which has just changed to red. This is comparable to an eighteen-wheeler approaching a traffic signal when it turns to yellow and the back of the truck going through a light which has changed to red."

Can you distinguish the difference between the two statements?

Then you challenge me to show you "the Florida law that allows you to run a red light because "you're with them". I dare you. I triple dog dare you." (By the way, this is the CORRECT way to quote someone - using another person's words EXACTLY and in the proper context.)

So now it's my turn to challenge YOU to show where I said anything about it being legal. Using your words, "I dare you. I triple dog dare you. It ain't there." (There's another example for you on how to quote someone else.)

The fact is this: I never stated you CAN run through red lights legally. I simply stated the reality of what takes place during group rides and why it takes place, pointing out the situation which is most safe for the riders in a group, especially those behind the leaders.

Mel, Tim and Officer Friendly have already corroborated my views, so I won't rehash what I initially stated.

Chip, it's a good thing you ride alone, as you would surely create a safety hazard for those behind you if you insisted at stopping at lights that everyone else is going through.

[Mel Lucas]

Chip: We're not ganging up on you or anything like that. It's just that as cyclists in this eclectic cycling community of ours here in St. Pete, we tend to stick together. We want to educate the motoring public and if need be, the cycling community as well. I believe that if you rode MORE with a group, perhaps a beginner group where you could glean some pack riding skills, you may have a better understanding of the dynamics of group riding and group riding etiquette.

I do not think that if you were riding with us, you'd stop at a red light if there were 20 other cyclists behind you riding up your back at 26 mph.

Cyclists gladly ride on the edge of the road. But the road conditions of the shouler are less than superior. I would wonder if Mr. Balmer is part of the misguided republicans who want to limit our local goverernment from providing the necessary services for a civilized community.

Those of us that are out riding try to ride on secondary and tertiary roads. These are not always in the best condition. We will ride on the so we will not crash. I have crashed do to poor shoulder quality.

I ask Mr. Balmer, If you don't want Cyclists on your roads will you support FLDOT and your local road department building roads suitable for both bikes and cars.

Plus get off your butt and get a workout, I don't want to have to pay for your medical payments when you are on medicare. Or if you are now driving up medical care costs with having type II diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure, or any other disease derived from a sedentary life style.

[Chip Haynes]

Yeah, the partial quote should have been dobne thusly: "... ..." to show that it was a partial quote. So spank me with an English teahcer. I still do have to believe that it is wrong for a large group of cyclists to run a red light, just as it would be wrong for a large group of cars to run a red light. Are we not supposed to have the same rights and responsibilities? You guys pedal on ahead. I'll ride alone.

[Chris]

Chip - It wasn't even close to a partial quote. Show me where anything I originally stated is what you quoted me as saying - even partially.

I was merely stating the reality of what takes place during group rides and why it takes place - for the cyclists overall safety. The group I ride with always stops at lights when the leaders are approaching a red or yellow light. We don't do it flagrantly, but if the leaders go through yellow, you can bet the rest of the group will roll through red, if necessary. Otherwise, we'll be rolling up each other's backs.

[Mel Lucas]

Here's the dilehmma: Roll the dice and get hit by a car or FOR CERTAIN have at least 3 cyclists hit you from behind at a high speed and thus causing other cyclists go down during a sudden stop at a traffic light? hmmm..since the chances are unlikely that you'd get hit by a car unless you flagrantly ran a red light more than 20 seconds after the intersecting light turned green. It seems like a no brainer to me.

[Chip Haynes]

Ok, it comes down to this: It really doesn't matter what I think is right (and yes, I can hear you all cheering). Nor does it matter what you think you're entitled to. And, oddly enough, it doesn't matter what the St. Petersburg Police Department thinks. The police are only sworn to enforce the law, not interprete it. That distinction is very important. There's really only one way to find out who's right in this argument: A bunch of you will have to roll through a traffic light as it goes from green to red, and those that crossed the white stop bar after the light turned red will have to be issued tickets. You will need to, as a group, contest those tickets in a court of law, using your "we're like a big bus" defense. Win or lose, the verdict will have to be appealed up through the court system to the State Supreme Court. Their verdict is the law of the land, and the only true determination of right and wrong.

Any volunteers?

[1936 Man]

It's funny because I've ridden to work almost everday these past couple weeks. I am on 1st Av., S. from 1st St. NE to 37th St. and the ONLY bicyclists I see going through stop lights ARE NOT the spandex crowd, but are the guys in street clothes, no helmets, and sneakers. So since that seems to be what's happening here, I think that all this talk about "cyclists" breaking laws will most likely fall on deaf ears since most of those types of riders probably don't have access to the internet.

[Chip Haynes]

I think it's rare to see a cyclist- any cyclist- actually stop for a red light no matter what they are wearing. I do, but I'm apparently a freak of nature, and not to be trusted. I guess the only thing rarer than a cyclist that stops for red lights is a cyclist getting a ticket for running one. The thing is, motorists are watching all the time, and we cyclists, collectively, have a lousy image.

[Chris]

Chip's "holier-than-though" perception just produced a little barf in the back of my throat.

[Chip Haynes]

You're welcome.

[jv]

This part made me barf. Are you seriously this full of yourselves? Like we care if you are "doctors" and "professionals". You are just another guy in spandex on a bike to me.

"This group is comprised of highly-skilled, serious recreational cyclists, most of whom are business professionals, doctors and business owners on high-end bicycles."

[puking]

Yes they are jv. Made me barf as well. So much self high fiving I'm suprised he didn't injure himself.

[jv]

Why don't you folks who are arguing for the right to blow a stop sign/red light consider what a driver would feel like if they hit one of you and had to live with that for the rest of their lives.

Also. enough with the insults. Just because somebody is not riding a bicycle doesn't mean they are sitting around on the couch all day.

I get the feeling that most of you are adults. Please act accordingly.

[Chip Haynes]

Ok, I've got a minute here and just read through ALL of the above comments again. Chris ripped me a new one for mis-quoting him, but looking back, it wasn't Chris that I quoted. It was Tad. And I quoted Tad word for word. (Tad's original post appears as the second one from the top in this thread.)

Just wanted to clear that up.

[Mel]

OK. ---- all this! You all are a bunch of freaking posers and some of you are really beginning to get on my last nerve!

I believe that the reason that Chris mentioned that we're "business professionals, doctors and business owners on high-end bicycles" is because we seem to be viewed by SOME (not all) of the general motoring public as something sub-human or something. Otherwise, why is it so easy to buzz us with your car door or mace us as you drive past us or just plow right on through a group of us (July 6th, 2003)and then afterwards tell a local news reporter that we're nothing but a "pack of wolves."

And please don't feed me that self-serving b.s (I wish we could swear on this blog) about how it's because we do so much wrong, we break so many laws, we do this and we do that because really no one driving a car has a secret, unwritten RIGHT to take the law into their own hands and self-enforce the law as they interpret it!

Chris mentioned that because maybe - just MAYBE - if you all thought for 10 seconds before you decided to go on some self righteous rampage in your cars and run us all over cause we pissed you off cause we blocked you from passing us for 20 seconds, you'd happen to remember reading somewhere that we're not just weird freaks of nature who don't bleed red!!!

If you didn't have some kind of vested interest in cycling, and we're all just "another guy in spandex" to you, then why come to a blog called "Spoke n Word" for CYCLING and CYCLISTS?

Are you a retard or something?

[Mel]

Dear JV:

Here's something for you to consider next time you write something as stupid as you did above about how we should take into consideration how a driver would feel if they ran over a cyclist.

There is an "elderly" man or woman right NOW who, after 5 years has passed by, is STILL hiding from the law somewhere after they ran over my neice in front of the Don C'Sar(sp) and killed her instantly. Doesn't seem like that person gives a shit that she not only killed my 4 year old neice, but that he or she just left the damn scene! But he or she stopped for about 30 seconds until he or she realized what they had done and made the decision to take off!

So, JV - do you think that person has enough of a conscious to consider what they did ? Do you think that they're living with it? Or feel badly about it everyday? Or 5 years later, do you think they even think about it on a daily basis? And if so, why not turn themselves in? Pay for what they did?

Personally, I wouldn't be able to go into hiding for all these years after doing something like that (would you?) and then proceeding to live out the remainder of my life with that on my conscious which only leads me to believe that - NAW - they don't feel bad at all. Basically,that person got away with running over a little girl and killing her. She's dead and they're probably still driving around somewhere. So please don't talk to me about motorists feeling badly about running over pedestrians or bicyclists because NOT ALL human beings have a conscious.

YOUR comment made ME barf!

[Sad Uncle]

Dear JV:

Here's something for you to consider next time you write something as stupid as you did above about how we should take into consideration how a driver would feel if they ran over a cyclist.

There is an "elderly" man or woman right NOW who, after 5 years has passed by, is STILL hiding from the law somewhere after they ran over my neice in front of the Don C'Sar(sp) and killed her instantly. Doesn't seem like that person gave a rats --- that he/she not only killed my 4 year old neice, but that he/she just left the damn scene! Oh, but he/she stopped for about 30 seconds until he or she realized what they had done and then instead of doing what MOST human beings would have done and called the police - made the decision to take off!

So, JV - do you think that person has enough of a conscious to consider what they did ? Do you think that they're living with it? Or feel badly about it everyday? Or 5 years later, do you think they even think about it on a daily basis? And if so, why not turn themselves in? Pay for what they did?

Personally, I wouldn't be able to go into hiding for all these years after doing something like that (would you?) and then proceeding to live out the remainder of my life with that on my conscious which only leads me to believe that - NAW - they don't feel bad at all. Basically,that person got away with running over a little girl and killing her. She's dead and they're probably still driving around somewhere. So please don't talk to me about motorists feeling badly about running over pedestrians or bicyclists because NOT ALL human beings have a conscious.

YOUR comment made ME barf!

[jv]

Sad Uncle,

Sorry to hear your sad tale, but your argument is just plain flawed. You want everyone to believe that all cyclists are good upstanding citizens, and then you paint all drivers as remorseless demons. I could tell you a few sad tales too, but I see no point while you have your blinders on.

Mel, you just plain make no sense, but nice rant nonetheless. I like the part where you call me a poser the best. You don't even know me. You are hilarious.

And yes, I do ride if that really matters.

Sheesh. How old are you guys?

[jv]

Mel. I like the retard comment too. That is extremely funny.

Unless you happen to be retarded.

[Adam Newman - Spoke N Word editor]

Thank you all for sharing your comments on this topic. At this point I believe all that could be said has been, and I've decided to close the comments on this post. Thanks for reading and please feel free to continue commenting on other posts. Let's just keep it positive. - Adam