Bucs talked to Vikes about Moore

   The Bucs have had discussions with the Minnesota Vikings about trading for running back Mewelde Moore, according to a team source.

   But the Bucs aren't willing to meet the Vikings price of a first day draft pick (either a first-, second-, or third-round choice).

   Moore has been inactive for the last two games and will be a free agent at the end of the season, so the Vikings have reason to deal him. First-round pick Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor are ahead on the depth chart.

   Taylor has been out with a hip injury. Moore has 10 carries for 71 yards this season. He would be a nice complementary running back who can also catch passes.

   But he isn't familiar with the Bucs offense and would be a role player at best. The more likely scenario is the Bucs signing Kenneth Darby from the practice squad.

   And forget about those rumors of the Bucs trading for Taylor and starting left tackle Bryant McKinnie. That's not happening. Imagine the compensation the Vikings would want for those players.

      

    

Comments

[Blah]

Get Darby signed and call it a day.

Don't throw away anymore draft picks.

[James]

Call it a day with the signing of an inexperienced RB? I'm glad your nowhere near the Bucs FO.

[DR]

Rick, any new word on Stevens' conviction for drunk driving. Isn't Goodell going to suspend him?

[NJBuc]

Anyone we bring in is going to have to learn the offense which takes time. I say we stick with Graham/Pittman. I dont want to see the team waste any draft picks for an extremely limited role player (ie: Doug Jolley).

[mh001]

How about Moore for Simms straight up?

[JC]

I think Pitt and Graham have earned the right to prove themselves before people start panicking. They played pretty well last week and you know that the Panthers were expecting them to run after getting the lead. Signing Darby makes sense, because he's got experience in the offense. He had a pretty good preseason, too.

[Daniel]

Moore is a former fourth round draft pick who is inactive most Sundays for the Vikes. Moore is also free agent at the end of the year, so the Vikes should take whatever they can get for him. Personally, I think the Bucs offense is very complicated, it might take a back four to six weeks to learn it. We should stick with what we have, bring up Darby from the practice squad, and save our picks for next year. A good back can be found in the second or third round of the draft.

[Clint]

I really think that Tampa should inquire about Mike Turner.(SD) Losing a draft pick(S) on him is worth while. Caddy may be gone +1 year. Turner is a free agent come springtime. Not giving up on Pitt or Graham, just buying insurance for the future.

[John P]

Getting a replacement LT is a lot more important than a RB - why they're talking about Moore is beyond me. Every rock they can turn over to find a LT they ought to be right now.

Isn't Aaron Sears a former LT at Tennessee, among other things? If he could manage it, he's certainly got enough athleticism to do it. Replacing a guard is easier than a tackle, with what we've got on the roster right now.

[Kevin]

I think Pittman is definitely a capable backup...He was a one time starter on a championship team; however, if they really want someone, then maybe Ronde should talk his brother into coming out of retirement...This would give them the chance to play on the same team together, plus Tiki could stop complaining about having to play for Tom Coughlin...

[Rohan]

Why not go after Ricky Williams?

[DR]

They should put Chris Simms in for RB for at least one play. It would be funny and he might earn one cent out of his over paid contract. Gruden, I will be a towel boy for the league minimum, pick me up.

[Daniel]

JohnP, While LT is more important than RB, what team is going to give up an NFL quality starting LT? How much would they want for him? 1st round pick? Penn and Davis have game and practice time at LT in our complicated offensive system. It helps that most of the Bucs O-lineman are versatile and have played other positions because this injury may not be the last on the O-line.

[John P]

Daniel,the choice of Sears to move to LT might be a better one now for the present - and future. He would be able to manage it, I'd bet. Penn and Davis are NOT quality (or even average)backups at that position. As far as whether or not a starting LT could be found elsewhere in the league - Remember San Diego got Romen Oben, who started at LT for the Chargers and played a superb 2 years (before getting hurt) - from the Bucs for a 5th round pick. So yeah, it's possible.

[Bobby]

I said it before, during and after: Kenneth Darby is going to be an above-average back in this league if the Bucs ever give him a legitimate shot. The guy just has that special spark. Mark my words. Sign Darby, cut him loose and watch him ruuuuuuuunnnnnnn!

[Jason]

There is a left tackle out there who just retired. T. Glenn
The Colts ex-LT... Money talks! Hey Bruce give him a call and see if he'll listen to the green backs.
As far as running back goes I don't think we should panic just resign Darby and see how it goes.

[Daniel]

JohnP, Yeah, it's possible if the Bucs are doing the dealing. Not a very good trade on our part considering Oben was on our Super Bowl line. Was that McKay's or Allen's trade? Philidelphia lost their left tackle too this weekend, their line gave up 12 sacks. The Eagles, out of desperation, will probably outbid us if someone does have an LT available. I think Sears is a good prospect, but he is a rookie and playing well at guard, I don't see the Bucs moving him. I thought Penn played well in the preseason and held his own against the Panthers, I think the Bucs would know their personnel better than two guys on a blog, we'll see what they do.

[aaron]

i agree with Jogn P. we should try and slide sears over to left tackle. and we should then start dan beunning at RG. beunning is a really good gaurd with a mean streak. i know they want him to move over to center for the future but playing him at rg and sears at lt seems to be the best option. Sears played LT at tenn. which is in the SEC. that is arguably the best college football conference. i think he can handle it.

[NJBuc]

If this were preseason I wouldnt mind moving Sears over to tackle but we are already 4 games in and he is really coming into his own at LG. This isnt the best time to tinker by moving someone to a position they havent manned on this level especially in their rookie year. We all know Sears played tackle at Tennessee but at this stage mistakes cost games and games cost seasons... I say we stick with Penn. We may have to scheme a little to get him some help against Freeney this week but he held his own against Carolina. Besides I think if the Bucs didnt feel he could do a better job than Davis, Davis would be starting...

[Tom]

I am not sure about using Sears at LT. #1 has he played LT before? #2 he is so effective at LG that losing him there could be a drop in two positions.

We will have to alter our gameplan and use chip blocks from RBs and TEs staying back to help. Of course, this will take away our ability to use all of our guys.

This is a big cause for concern for me. Do you guys remember when Oben got hurt for three games? We lost all three.

[Tom]

Then again, we have Jeff Garcia now so maybe all is well. Go Bucs!!

[Doofus Dan]

You hit it right on NJ. Let’s see how Penn plays this week before rushing to judgment. Worst case scenario they’ll keep a back in to help, which I expected anyway. I’m pulling for Penn; he looked good in relief last week. Besides we all knew Petitigout wasn’t the long term answer for the Bucs, if Penn works out this line could be together for the next decade. Play Penn sign Darby.

GO BUCS!!!

[Tom]

I agree with Doofus, unless someone spectacular becomes available, let's play the guys we have now. Our line is extremely young now. We have three 2nd year guys and one rookie! If they can perform, I will give credit to Muir and staff.

I have confidence in Pittman. He is a great all purpose back. We need him to catch out of the backfield. He is a devastating blocker.

One note, BJ Askew is a stud. I watched the game again last night and the guy was mauling people. And he can catch!!

[Doofus Dan]

Thanks Tom, and thanks for the sir name. I pulled it form one of your post last week (Don't mind that doofus Dan. He is a Panthers fan.). I would also agree that Pittman is a good all purpose back, he and Graham both can run block and catch out of the back field. Since were on the subject, who drafted that front line? Who brought in the backs either by draft or via free agency? Just throwing out a little bait.

[Frank]

aaron and JohnP, If Sears was such a good tackle prospect, why was he moved to guard during camp? Why isn't he the backup at left tackle? Davis played left guard in the preseason, why haven't the Bucs moved him to guard and moved sears to tackle? Can you say Winston Justice? The rookie backup for the Eagles gave up six sacks this weekend and their line gave up 12. The Bucs have good chemistry on their line now. The center and two guards have played well, why mess with that? I think Muir knows his players better than you two and will do what is best for the team. Moving Sears is not in the Bucs plans unless maybe Penn gets hurt, then all bets are off.

[Tom]

Haha! That's funny! Doofus Dan has a nice ring to it.

I think you're talking about Jon Gruden and staff. Yes, he has made mistakes just like every other coach. However, I think the success we are having now is a direct reflection of his skill as an X's and O's guy. The fact that Joey Galloway was completely shut out, we lose our starting RB and starting LT and still didn't miss a beat is really awesome.

I am really excited about this team. We have a great nucleus of young guys and $18 million under the cap.

[John P]

We'll see soon enough how Penn performs.

Winston Justice gave up those sacks because he was left on an island the entire game. If they do that with Penn, the same thing will happen.

Sears was drafted because he is versatile (started at 4 O-line positions at Tenn). It should tell you something about the state of the line's depth when Penn is the best option at LT. And before you talk about Penn having some kind of experience - this is his first start in the pros.

Here's a scouting assessment of Penn from his Hula Bowl performance coming out of college:

"He drive blocks pretty well, but doesn't bend at the knee's while engaging the defender. Doesn't always get off his three point stands fast enough against the faster DE, but can recover most times and use his hands well keeping them inside his body.
Did give a sack in the 1st half, because he got pushed back from the start and did not get any leverage. All this at LT in the 1st half. Also needs to work on his foot work."

[Frank]

John P, Maybe that is why Penn was an undrafted free agent. I saw Penn pancake blockers in preseason. Luckily the Bucs read his WAC scouting report "Left tackle Donald Penn is a nasty blocker who plays with leverage. Displaying footwork in pass protection, Penn effectively uses body positioning to seal defenders from the action or turns opponents off the ball".

[aaron]

frank, its is just like with gradkowski and the MAC, Penn is no longer in the WAC, this is the NFL. playing LT in the SEC is much closer in terms of level of competition than the WAC. anyways i think sears would be a better option at LT than Penn. hell i think anthony davis is a better long term option. penn did do well last week though, i will give him that. but i dont think he can do it all year. LT is a very important position and the bucs really need to look at all their options long and hard.

[DR]

Quit comparing college to the NFL. No matter what conference, NFL play is a HUGE step up from college. Go ask all the heisman failures in the NFL. Ask Reggie Bush,Matt Leinart, LenDale White how the NFL is compared to college. Will Penn step up to the challenge? We'll find out soon enough. Unfortunately for Penn, its sink or swim against a great DE Freeney. I would hope the Bucs will be double teaming Freeney, more often than not. You saw what happened to the Eagles.

[Doofus Dan]

Guys calm down, all the reports your referring to are predraft . Penn has been coached well since the draft and his foot work surprised the coaching staff in camp and during the preseason. I’ll agree there a big step up from collage, but let’s give the guy a chance. After all he got a lot of work in the preseason and last week in reserve.

Lack of experience hasn’t deterred the Bucs from starting him; this guy could be a stud for the next ten years. Besides did anyone see the scouting report on Tony Ugoh? If not here is the negative. (Lacks dominant strength gets minimal movement from run blocks and is not a finisher. Considered a track guy who was coaxed to play football.) This guys been a stud for Indy, so that should tell you what the scouting reports mean.

[Tom]

I agree with Doofus again, and not because I gave him his great name. Let's not all get our panties in a wad here. Watch the tape on Penn last week. He played really well. He is pretty athletic as he pulled on one running play that sprung Pittman for a big gain.

He does have his hands full with Freeney and he'll need some help. But let's not alter our line too much right now since Sears is playing spectacular football. You notice that a lot of the running plays were going in the A gap because of the great guards that we have now.

[Frank]

As a Buc fan I hope who ever they play at LT works out. I just find it amusing that guys like aaron and John P think they know more than the Bucs coaching staff. aaron, don't you think the Bucs know LT is an important position? Don't you think they have evaluated everyone from watching film of practice, preseason and the game? You may not like Penn and think Davis is better, but the Bucs like Penn and that's good enough for me. Obviously, every one is entitled to an opinion on these blogs, but you guys really think you know more than the talent evaluators of the Bucs. Sorry to break it to you, but you don't. You don't see closed practices and see how Penn handles Kevin Carter, Greg Spires or anyone else the Bucs throw at him. No offense, but I give the edge in evaluating talent to the Bucs.

[John P]

Frank, you amuse me by thinking you know what a good job the Bucs do in evaluating talent. As I recall, the Bucs traded away a starting left tackle for nothing because they couldn't evaluate properly just how good he was. This SAME staff also cut John Lynch, Warren Sapp and others because they didn't think they were good enough. This same staff also discounted injury reports of Cadillac Williams and drafted him anyway. This same staff also tried to start countless offensive line corpses because they thought they were good enough. When you finish near the bottom every year on offense, your judgement CAN be called into question, lol. My goodness, I could go on and on about how wrong this staff has gone with evaluating talent. Two more words to seal this talent evaluation argument: Cornell Green, lol.

You DO crack me up with the unswerving loyalty, though. I'm a Bucs fan, and I'd like to see them do well and win. I'm not blind in my devotion to the coaching staff though, as apparently you appear to be.

[Doofus Dan]

John, I get the feeling from your last post that your calling into question the Bucs ability to evaluate talent by signing the players listed in your post. Which I would agree with if the Bucs brought those players in believing they were the most talented among free agents.

Obviously they were not, however the offensive line we had at the time wasn't getting the job done so a change had to be made. We also were over the cap at that time and the players you mentioned were available and willing to came to Tampa for little or no signing bonus and on a short term contract. We had nothing to lose.

We also could not afford to keep Sapp and Mcfarland, you would have to agree Sapp didn't produce the last couple years of his contract. In hindsight, Mcfarland didn't work out and Sapp did little or nothing for the R a i d e r s ... (my best effort to type the emotion of Chris Berman saying the Raiders.)

Lynch on the other hand... well that was just plain stupid, but in there defense Lynch was hurt and expensive they also thought Phillips would produce then like he has so far this year. That didn't happen.

Since they now have room under the cap, they have brought in better talent ie Garcia, Cato, Petitigout, and BJ AsKew all contributing this year prier to Petitigout going down. They also drafted the entire offensive line the last three years with the exception of Wade who they brought in via free agency.

[Frank]

John P, I never said anything about unswerving loyalty, just the Bucs ability to better evaluate the talent they have on the field better than you. Don't get so defensive, but you do think you can do better job than the Bucs, I can tell by the defensiveness of your post. Anyway, wasn't Lynch hurt? Didn't he doubt his own health? Didn’t the same management that goofed on Booger and let Sapp walk, revitalize the defense this year with solid draft picks and free agents? Of course Gruden and Allen aren't perfect, every GM and coach have their share of mistakes. I just think the Buc's ability to judge the players they see practicing every day by analyzing film for 12 plus hours is better than ANY fan on a blog. Don't take it so personal.

[Doofus Dan]

Pull the salary cap figures for 2007, you'll see the Bucs are in the top five in teams under the cap. As of March 2, 2007 the Bucs were 22.3 M under the cap. Atlanta on the other hand was 26th at 6.8M and the Colts were 29th at 5.9M The Bucs are in good shape now and have the money to go after elite players for years to come.

Here's a little talent evaluation, how many tackles does Simeon Rice have? Through 4 games, 3 tackles. I would say they have a good idea of whose talented and whose not.

[John P]

Frank, the day I get defensive or personal about my knowledge is the day I start doubting myself. Neither of those things are happening here, amigo. Lynch wanted to have the opportunity to play, the Bucs refused him (even at minimum salary). Old news.

Enjoy the game Sunday. :)

..Doofus Dan, even a blind squirrel will find a nut occasionally. Rice at 2 sacks in '06 was obvious - especially at his salary. And, why would the salary cap matter? There may not even be a salary cap for 2008 (the league is discussing doing away with it), which means all teams would spend whatever they want, anyway. Unless the collective bargaining agreement is re-worked, there are salary cap free years coming, no matter what.

[Frank]

John P, Based on your reply, it sounds like you are convinced you can do a better job than the Bucs. "the day I get defensive or personal about my knowledge is the day I start doubting myself" Your last three posts were used defending that position. John P, just come out and say it, you do feel you can do a better job than the Bucs evaluating talent? Don't you?

[John P]

Frank, looks like you're the one trying to make it personal, doesn't it? Feeling vulnerable? You're convinced that Gruden is virtually infallible and cannot commit a wrong, obviously. He is the god of roster decisions: Charlie Garner, Derrick Deese, Rickey Dudley, Tim Brown and Darrell Russell (RIP) be damned, lol. We'll see if you're right, soon enough, Frank.

Like I said, enjoy the game Sunday. :)

[Frank]

John P, I asked a simple question. You never answered. I already know the answer though. I know gruden makes mistakes. I'm also not vain enough to think I know as much as a staff of coaches that watch film 12 hrs a day. I never praised Gruden in any of my posts and never said he was infallible. Of course you can list his mistakes, that was never my point.
Read my first post at all 11:09 yesterday, I said "I think Muir knows his players better than you two and will do what is best for the team"
I never said the Bucs were great talent evaluators, just better than you. Then you replied all defensive.
Tonight I said it again three times at 7:56. Read the post again, I didn't say Gruden or Allen were geniuses’, just they can do their jobs better than a fan that gets his info from watching the game and from websites. The reporters that get paid to write about the Bucs don't see the closed practices. I suppose you are smarter than them too.
Why would I take it personal? The comment that really set you off was "I just find it amusing that guys like aaron and John P think they know more than the Bucs coaching staff". Again, who said Gruden was a mastermind? I just think it is funny that you think you know more than he does. I know I don't, apparently you do.

[John P]

Hey, I missed the Muir comment, lol. I definitely think a trained monkey (any zoo animal, really) would be able to coach talent better than Muir. That SOB is the among the worst O-line coaches in pro football. Period. Firing him still makes sense, 3 game winning streak or not. I'd fire Gruden just to get rid of Muir. He's that bad. You'd do better than Muir, Frank.

As for your other comments - I've written easy to understand truth - no defense from you is needed. You just need to think about your admiration/respect of Gruden and put it into perspective. He's lost his hubris this year and has decided to listen to good advice again. Lets hope he doesn't read any genius press clippings about himself for a while. The last several years of roster decisions were heavy in mistakes. If he does well enough to not get fired this season, he should count himself lucky. We'll see in 12 weeks. The odds of him keeping a 37 year old QB healthy without a good LT are slim, though. If Garcia stays healthy, Gruden stays employed. If not, the Bill Cowher, Monte Kiffin or Mike Martz coaching regime begins in January. That's absolute fact.

[Frank]

John P, Why do you think I admire Jon Gruden so much? I have written no praises to his coaching acumen. I think I have written easy to understand comments too. Where does it say I think they have done a great job? Your ego clouds your reading comprehension. I have stated over and over that a staff of coaches that studies film 12 hours a day, that reviews practices that no one else sees, would be able to evaluate whose best to take the field, better than a fan on a blog. Your reply has been to attack Gruden, is your ego that big? Read my posts again, I have never said that Gruden is a genius, infallible, or incapable of mistakes, just that he and his staff knows his players better than you. I'll tell you what, Gruden may get fired at the end of the year, since you are convinced you know more than him, why don’t you take his place?

[DR]

John P, i feel for you bro. These idiots can't argue for crap. If you say something negative, well "why don't you coach then" comments come out, something you would expect from a 5 year old. Doofus is a tool. Rice's stats mean nothing, he's still nursing a shoulder injury. Thats right, Tampa's pass rush is so amazing without him. Will Adams get a sack in his career? Gotta love his 6 tackles and 0 sacks through 4 games with way more snaps. What a bum. Just like you Doofus. You seriously must not have watched any football in years.

[Bob]

DR, I would expect a comment like that coming from the most negative person on this board. You are not even a Bucs fan, you are a Cowboys fan, all you do on this blog is stir up trouble. Why can I understand what Frank wrote? Pretty simple really, none of us are privy to closed practices, none of us watch film all day (maybe you and John P based on your expert opinions), none of us have a staff of coaches to get feedback from, yet JohnP feels he knows more than Gruden and his staff. I don't think Gruden is a mastermind either; heck he has been wrong plenty of times. However, my ego is not so big I would spend two days arguing that I know more about the Bucs personnel than Gruden does, that's what John P just did. I think it is hilarious too.

[John P]

Oh man, you guys are weak. If none of you know anything, and aren't willing to stand up for your insights and opinions - stop posting. Do any of you remotely care about the game of football? Frank, you've had your chance to talk about the Bucs - but you keep trying to turn into a touchy feely Taster's Choice moment. Go get in touch with your feelings and have a bon-bon. Bob, you're a joke because you don't have any opinions. Go develop a backbone before you waste anyone's time here. You guys call yourselves Bucs fans? Weak.

[Bob]

JohnP I don't need to post my opinions becuase you have all the answers.LOL. I can just read your posts and I know that is what the Bucs should do.LOL. Why should I pay attention to a coaching staff that spends 15 hours each day breaking down film or coaches who get paid millions of dollars when you are on this blog giving us the TRUTH as you called it.LOL. With an ego as big as yours, how does your head fit through the door? I believe Frank did give his opinion earlier, it was that finding another LT would be tough. Who is trading away a starter now? LT's don't exactly grow on trees. I'm in agreement there. I also believe our offensive system is complicated and the players in place already know it and have practiced in it. You want to slide over Sears, yet the center of the line is getting a great push and improving the running game. So you want to throw all that out the window because you don't think Penn can't do the job at LT. Maybe the Bucs know more than you. Consider the possibilty if your huge ego allows it.

[Stephie]

Here's a thought. The Bucs will go after Ricky Williams after the Dolphins dump him!

[John P]

*cough*....yeah, great interior blocking. The best. Really improved the running game Bob, all of 18 yards in a 60 minute contest. That's 4.5 yards a quarter. At that rate, they'll be up to a 100 yards total by late November. Yeah, Bill Muir. Jon Gruden. Geniuses.

[Bob]

John, Freeneys sack wasn't on Penn, he looped around on a stunt. We were playing catch up most of the second half. How many sacks did Penn give up? If Sears is so good, why was the interior of the line the weakness? Your argument was to slide Sears over to tackle, how would of that helped our third string back?