Did Bucs jump the gun on Faine?

(Updated 12:22 p.m.) Chiefs coach Herm Edwards makes what basically amounts to an accusation of tampering against the Bucs in a story in today's Kansas City Star.

The Chiefs had an interest in signing new Bucs center Jeff Faine, but the Bucs swept in and agreed to terms with him barely an hour after the start of the signing period, which began at midnight on Feb. 29.

Edwards implies that the Bucs and Faine's camp were in cahoots before the signing period began.

"There were probably some deals done before," he said. "We didn't cheat. We abided by the rules. That's how you're supposed to do it, and that's what we did."

When asked to elaborate, Edwards said, "You'd have to ask Tampa. I don't know what Tampa did."

Edwards also took issue with the Rams, who were quick to sign kicker Josh Brown before Kansas City could even arrange a visit.

Tampering -- which basically amounts to holding talks with a player who is under contract with another team -- is rarely enforced in the NFL. But just Monday, the NFL ruled that the 49ers tampered with Bears linebacker Lance Briggs by talking about him with agent Drew Rosenhaus before the start of the free agent period. And it was a costly infraction, with San Francisco forced to forfeit a fifth-round pick and swap third-round picks with the Bears -- dropping the 49ers five spots.

You can read the entire story by clicking here.

It should be pointed out that Edwards had a different take on the matter earlier this month. When asked on March 2 about losing out on Faine, Edwards reportedly indicated he thought the Bucs paid too much for the player, giving him a six-year, $37-million deal. He seemed to take the matter in stride then.

"You know when you go into free agency that you aren't going to get them all," Edwards said. "You wish you would have gotten another guy or two. But we didn't. In the end, does it make you better if you had gotten those guys? Maybe a little bit. The way we're approaching it, we're going to be OK if we didn't get anybody in free agency."

But Edwards' frustration likely grew as the Chiefs' fan base has grown increasingly impatient with the team's lack of big moves in free agency. It's possible he was venting a little when he made the above comments.

Either way, we've gotten no indication to this point that the matter will escalate to the league level. Even if it did, proving tampering occurred is extremely difficult.

Comments

[Karl]

T-Kraz talked about this on his show this morning on 1010am. Sounds like Herm is accusin the Bucs of cheating. The Bucs helped launch his coaching career. He shouldn't say anything. They shoulda offered Faine more money if they wanted him so bad

[Darren]

Wa-Wa-Wa.

Hermie should stop crying as if he was a child. The fact is his organization was unprepared.

Go ahead, tell mommy. It only highlights how pathetic you are.

[skp]

go cry to your GM, herm, you hear it from the players themselves, our guys are on the phones at 12:01 with our top targets - where were your guys? bruce allen knew for days that there was only 1 center worth getting, and he couldn't leave anything to chance...this front office is just always prepared when it comes to recruiting, signing, and re-signing players; the best contract guy in the NFL works at One Buc, thanks Bruce!

[J]

Herm should be more worried about saving his pathetic excuse for a head coaching carrer. He was terrible in NY, and he has destroyed KC. He is probably the worst head coach in the NFL. Sounds like he is frustrated. He will be the first coach canned next season, probably before the season ends. He is know in the league as a coach who lets the inmates run the asylum. Shut up and coach you clown!

[jason]

Herm is a joke he should run with Obama....Best team in the NFL 96-2001 no superbowls!!! Dungy and Herm go to #$@

[Mr. S]

You guys are pretty harsh on a guy who is simply pointing out the fairly obvious fact that teams are employing unsavory business tactics. I don't recall such strong opposition to Patriot opponents in the wake of the videotaping scandal.

[JOhn]

When all of you find out that our only "prized" free agent...a center, for crying out loud, is a mediocre player, you'll wish Herman would have signed him!

[DR]

It's pretty obvious that a deal was done 1 hour after free agency started that there were talks. These same people who are blasting Herm Edwards are the same people who would be crying if it happened to the Bucs. There is no question that Gruden has an integrity problem and there is no question that Goodell has mishandled integrity issues so far in his short tenure as league commissioner.
Herm has a valid point. Rules are rules. The Bucs did talk to Faine before free agency. To top that off, they beat out other teams that were illegally talking to Faine.

[Rightwingers are the bane of our society's existence]

Hey jason.... You might want to try and be less blatantly racist next time, ok?

Hurry along now little bigot, Rush is on!

[BE]

The Bucs did talk with Faine before free agency?
You know this for a fact, DR?

Were you there in the meeting rooms with the front office staff?
Did you listen in to phone conversations between Allen and Faine's agent during the weeks leading up to free agency?

Fact is that this can neither be proven nor dis-proven. So you saying the Bucs did talk to Faine before free agency is a load of crap.
As is everyone who says that they didn't talk to his camp before FA started.

Could they have talked to his agent before free agency? Of course they could have.
Did they talk to his agent? We'll never know for sure.

As of now, without any concrete evidence, it's all just a bunch of speculation and hearsay from both sides.

[Scott]

I take these comments from the worst clock managing head coach in league with a grain of salt. Herm probably thought FA started a day later than it did.

[DR]

It's pretty obvious that a deal was done 1 hour after free agency started that there were talks. These same people who are blasting Herm Edwards are the same people who would be crying if it happened to the Bucs. There is no question that Gruden has an integrity problem and there is no question that Goodell has mishandled integrity issues so far in his short tenure as league commissioner.
Herm has a valid point. Rules are rules. The Bucs did talk to Faine before free agency. To top that off, they beat out other teams that were illegally talking to Faine.

[Cindy]

Actually, BE, it can be proven by looking at phone records, IF the NFL choses to purse Herm Edwards' accusations.

Integrity...does it still exist???

[Cindy]

Sorry for the typo. I meant to say...IF the NFL chooses to pursue Herm Edwards' accusations.

[DR]

Unless Faine is a complete moron, it's pretty obvious he was talked to by several teams before he was allowed to by rule. Any person who makes a multimillion dollar decision in a one hour span is a moron. So I paying Faine respect by saying he already made contact with several teams.

[BE]

That is true. With an investigation (if it comes to that) it can be proven, either way, if the Bucs tampered or not.
But, as of now, it's all a bunch of speculation. So to say otherwise, and make it seem like fact, is a load of bull.

[Stephen_Holder]

Here's something to remember people: the Bucs probably never talked to Faine personally before FA started. They almost certainly talked to his agent, but that doesn't prove anything. His agent represents other players who already were on the team. So, it's got to be something more concrete than phone records or something of that nature. Talking to agent in and of itself proves nothing. I frankly don't know how you prove tampering. It's pretty difficult.

[Tony]

nice copy and paste action DR. You must be an aspiring politician. Making random statements implying a lot without backing it up with any evidence. Sure you can assume that they tampered but you know what assume means don't you?

[Tony]

He received a large contract DR. It was probably faxed over at 12:01 followed by a phone call. If you were a solid center looking at a contract that makes you the highest paid center in the league, why would you hesitate?

[Valrico Rick]

From a certain perspective tampering is just risking a draft pick for a player that may be worth more. If the 49ers had gotten Briggs to sign it wouldn’t have been a loss for them. He is easily worth a 5th rounder and a trade in the 3rd. If however the Bucs get busted for tampering with Faine and have to give up a 5th round pick that would be a calculated risk for a player they believe to be worth a lot more. I am pretty clear on right and wrong, but in certain elements of business right and wrong is an equation based on what is to be gained versus what might be lost. The punishment is equivalent to a trade for a player that you really want, and it only hurts if you don’t get your player. Didn’t say I agree though!

[Michael]

"You'd have to ask Tampa. I don't know what Tampa did."

~Herm Edwards

Well, it seems to me Herm just ought to shut his mouth, although he's never been particularly good at this. And he should also know that in the pecking order of things, the Bucs are a better franchise, with a better location, and more money than KC. It shouldn't be the biggest shocker that Faine quickly chose TB over KC. Yesterday's article about Troupe basically amounts to the same exact story, except Buffalo was the fodder. We're not the Patriots, but we are exceptionally viable to the top FAs compared to most of the teams in the NFL. Maybe Herm can get a job here come October and KC is 1-5.

[Tony]

nice thought Valrico Rick but what does Herm gain in this scenerio? Why is he starting rumors on what he thinks happened. It sounds like he's reaching for excuses for his failure this offseason due to his lack of agressiveness...
Does the fact that he doesn't gain anything in this senario make his statements true? Maybe, maybe not. But judging by his lack of success as a head coach, he sounds like a failing student making excuses why their grades are up to par.

[Tony]

*not up to par.

[Daisey]

Herm,

I am still available. You can call me. If you don't have my number, get it from Elliot Spitzer.

[Keith]

Hey Herm, "Hello, You Play To Win the Game"

[BEENABUC]

Herm,
I know, I know, coaching in KC can tend to have this effect on anyone...

[Michael]

Lineman hold on every play, players bite, scratch and claw under a pile for a lose ball, and GMs tamper. That's life in the NFL. Get used to it.

[Michael]

Lineman hold on every play, players bite, scratch and claw under a pile for a lose ball, and GMs tamper. That's life in the NFL. Get used to it.

Offer me $37 million one MINUTE past the start of FA & I would have taken it. I agree with Tony...an offer was faxed right away & with that kind of money how do you say no or even drag out any sort of negotiations?

[BE]

A funny little twist too (at least to me) is that you could say that the Chiefs "tampered" when they were courting Herm while he was still under contract with the Jets.

If it did take place, he didn't complain about it then. And now Herm is complaining about possible tampering when it's against his Chiefs.

Could this be a case of the proverbial pot and the kettle?

Besides, to my knowledge, there can be no investigation unless the Saints file a complaint since Faine was under contract with them.
And I don't see that happening.

[DR]

How are the Bucs a better franchise than the Chiefs? Please explain. The Bucs have a long way to go to be in the same level as the historic Chief's franchise.
It's Faine's decision as to where he wants to be and for what price. You're right, if he wanted to go to the Chief's, he would have had his agent make sure they had a chance to match or raise the offer. This whole blog is a waste because if Faine doesn't pan out, then it was bad on the Bucs for signing him.
You haters do have to give Herm some credit. he took some bad teams to the playoffs. A Chad Pennington lead team and a team that had no WRs in KC. He maxed out his talent on his team better than most coaches and he did it without hiring rapists, thugs, and druggies.

[BE]

Question isn't about team history. It's about what franchise has the best chance to win now.
And the Bucs are better than the Chiefs in that regard.

[Justin M]

Its funny when I see comments like this from Herm Edwards. Wasnt it Herm Edwards who talked to Kansas City about their head coaching job while under contract with the NYJ?

Herm is obviously bitter about his team and the fact that he could be on his way out of KC.

[Mike]

Leave it to DR to make the history of the team the most significant aspect of the team's value. History is just that, HISTORY. Its good for the record books and for some memories and thats all. Players, coaches, and even fans will overwhemlingly favor being a contender today rather than talk about what happened years ago. If you continually lose year in and year out, you won't hear fans, coaches, and players pounding their chests about what the orginaztion has done in the past.

[jarrett]

why would you even write this story, are you trying to make a mountain out of a molehill now watch goodell take a draft pick because we are actually turning this into a story

[RD]

DR and Herm are both HERMS!!!

[Tony]

DR - why would this blog be a waste of time if Faine "pans" out or not? His "panning" out has nothing to do with tampering.
1. this blog already is a waste of time becouse we are all complaining about something we can't control
2. if the Bucs tampered, then they should pay the price. Faine panning out is a non-issue, it might just help us sleep at night if we lose a 5th and he turns out to be a probowler
3. if the Bucs did not tamper, they should file a lawsuit against Herm for prompting an investigation wasting the time our team officals for the next few months. Then we can waste our time on a blog talking about that too.

[DR]

You guys seem to forget that the Bucs were the NFL's laughing stock just 2 years ago. The Bucs and The Chiefs have the same record since Herm took over the Chiefs. Herm inherited a team with no talent at QB and no talent at WR. He took the Chiefs to the playoffs his first year in a much tougher conference.

[Jh Skyscrapercity]

DR... Newsflash for you... This is a Bucs blog... Take your objectivity and go some place else!

;-)

[Edward]

We now know Herm Edwards is no Tony Dungy. As we can also tell from his win loss record

[DR]

I'm a man lover. Hate me!

DR, you're either the most uninformed fan on the net, or a total dipstick.

Remember when Thomas Jones signed a contract with the Bears "TWO MINUTES" after midnight??

Didn't think so.....

As for the rapists, thugs and druggies...... look no further than your man love, Jerry Jones to satisfy your needs for these types of individuals.

Back on point: Herm's an idiot and by mid-season, the "storied" Dallas Texans will once again be looking for a head coach!!

[DR]

I eat man-panties.

[The King]

Maybe for a follow up act, Herm will do his "Crying Dick Vermiel" routine...

[DR]

Misinformed? You made allegations against the Cowboys and yet, mentioned no names. You say that Herm should be fired after one bad season with the talentless Chief's he inherited. He wasn't given a Super Bowl contender. He didn't dismantle a Super Bowl team. His team was 4-3 when they lost Larry Johnson for the season. But don't give him any credit, that's right, he's a Dungy guy.
It's funny you classless fans stab the men in the back who made Tampa a NFL football team and forget the fact that less than 2 years after their departure, Tampa became pretenders, NOT contenders.

[Mike]

I have to agree with DR on one point. Herm is a hell of a guy and if you ask the Bucs that played for him I am sure they will tell you the same thing. There is no need to bash the man for a comment he made. He never insulted the Bucs like some of you are doing to him. Now saying that the Bucs went to pretender 2 years after those coaches left is just plain ignorant. WE WON THE SUPER BOWL!! After that we won our division twice.

[John]

PAC-MAN!!! Dallas all the way!!!

[RD]

DR is a tool who lives in the past and only cares to compare teams' strengths based on their overall history... who cares about NFL history? It's in the past, and has absolutely no bearing on next season. Look at it through the windshield and not the rear view mirror.

[jeff]

Herm was only a d backs coach when the Bucs were good and got undeserved credit due to Monte Kiffin. He has never done anything on his own. Also, only 2 things come from texas, and the cowboys and their fans are not steers.

[BTKSTA]

AS usual, DR is a tool and sniffs the Cowboy's jocks, and this is all a waste of time. Unless the Saints--the team that had the player under contract prior to the start of FA-- file a complaint, there will be no investigation by the NFL. Know the rules if you are going to comment on them. By the way, is there anyone who thinks there is a team that has never violated the tampering rule? If so, go join DR in the idiot zone.

[cleveland rocks]

Im sorry to tell all you guys this, but Jeff Faine, just became the most over-paid player in football history. If my Brownies would have even talked to him Id be screaming for Phil Savages head. To be honest I thought this blog was about just that samething, I hadnt heard the other story yet. Anyways, your ripping on Herm an whoever DR is was awsome. Thanks for the laugh, an sorry about Faine hopefully plays like he did that first year in New Orleans. Good Luck to your guys, an wish us luck we'll prolly need it. Browns, Bucs Superbowl!!!

[Feedback Secrets]

Chiefs wouldn't want to pay Faine that kind of money anyway, so why complain about it? They can address their OL issue in the draft anyway, there are plenty of good OL prospects in this year's draft.