Graham on contract: "It needs to get done"

Bucs running back Earnest Graham speaks to the media about his contract situation after morning practice. [Brian Cassella, Times]

Running back Earnest Graham made his first appearance of the off-season at the Bucs' mandatory minicamp Tuesday and expressed optimism that he will have a new contract soon. (See audio slideshow)

But he stopped short of a guarantee that he would report to training camp on time if talks have not produced a new deal by the July 25 reporting date.

"What has to be done sometimes has to be done,'' Graham said. "I'm here today for the mandatory (minicamp). We're going to break after this minicamp and all get ready for (training) camp. I'm doing the same thing I've always done. I'm working hard in the off-season and getting ready for camp. That other thing will take of itself.

"Right now, whatever our reporting date is, I'm going to be there. Like I say, hopefully something will get done before then. I won't say anything whether or not (I'll be there). I'm being optimistic about it. Like I say, I don't know.''

Graham, who became the starter at running back following injuries to Cadillac Williams and Michael Pittman, rushed for 898 yards and 10 touchdowns last season in leading the Bucs to an NFC South title. He has one-year left on his contract that would pay him a base salary of about $605,000 in 2008.

"I think a lot of people stood up and played well,' Graham said. "I think a lot of people benefitted from what happened last year and I think everybody will be taken care of.'

Coach Jon Gruden said Graham reported to minicamp Tuesday in good physical condition.

"He's always in shape, you know Earnest,'' Gruden said. "He's going to be ready to go. These matters have a way of working themselves out."

Graham said he has no timetable for reaching an accord with the Bucs.

"It needs to get done. I'm not really stressing the time frame or anything like that. It just needs to get done. They know that, I know that. And I think because of that, it'll happen.

On Tuesday, Graham split reps with running backs Warrick Dunn and Michael Bennett. He says he's not worried about falling behind on the depth chart.

"I don't usually think about that,'' Graham said. "Even in past years, I've kind of taken off as far as off-season workouts and worked myself out and tried to improve on the things I need to improve on. I've been in this offense for five years, so just me coming out, getting back into the verbiage, it's pretty simple for me. I welcome all the guys.

"I've been here through a lot of great players: Thomas Jones, Michael Pittman, Mike Alstott, Charlie Garner -- so it's just another year...I'm very anxious for what I think we can do as a team. I think we let a game get away from us there against the Super Bowl champions. I think we all need to improve certain aspects of our game. Me personally, I'd like to be there and get significant playing time, whether it's starting or not, at the beginning of the year.''

Comments

[DR]

They have the money to compensate EG so why don't they just pay the man a fair contract. There is no question he is under piad right now. He is their #1 back going into training camp. He has worked hard to get rid of that undrafted biasness against him and last year he proved himself. Pay the man!

[Michael]

DR, why should the Bucs? I seem to remember that Caddy had one good year, but hasnt been able to do it again. Whats to say that Graham can? Also, he dosnt have the break away speed you desire in a running back. I think he is a good running back, but not a great running back. To sign him to a HUGE contract for multi-seasons would be a move that Rich McKary would make, and that is a sign that you dont do it. McKay is awful at deciding who deserves a big contract, (McFarland, Vick, Johnson, just to name a few) so Bruce Allen would be smart not to do it.

[Jay]

Oh EG, you're so funny. I loved that dig at the end about great players...

1. Thomas Jones - very good RB who never should have gotten away, but left because the Bucs were too cheap.

2. Michael Pittman - an above average RB who lasted much longer than he should have considering his upright running style and inability to break a tackle. Also left because the Bucs did not offer him a contract.

3. Mike Alstott - A devastatingly good RB who was never used properly under Gruden and rotted on the vine as a rarely used FB / RB.

4. Charlie Garner - overpaid, never played, and wasted a position slot.

So yeah, it's just another year, but EG knows that the Bucs have been terrible at predicting or even utilizing the RB position for the better half of this decade. If they're serious about keeping him around, they need to step up.

[Bucs Fan]

It only makes sense that we have a running back committee to go along with the QB committee. We should sign Travis Henry and Cedric Benson too. Therefore they can evaluate all of the sub-par running backs that are available. Pretty soon we will be able to field an offense using only RB's and QB's. Should he get paid? yes. Should he get paid what he wants? no. same situation going on with Garcia. One good season doesn't define a career and doesn't give you the right to demand a BIG contract. Simply agree to a 3 year $5 million contract, its that easy.

[Noel (Bahamas)]

Of course none of us are sitting at the negotiating table and know what is being offered and counter-offered. Graham may want the farm....and the BUCS may not be willing to give the farm. It is just the process of getting to 'Yes' on the deal. There should be no big controversy on this...at some point he will concede on his demands and the Bucs will agree to some of his asking money. End of the day though, he does not have a lot of leverage. With Dunn & Bennett splitting reps up to this point, Darby in the wings, Boyd on board...we have a stable of RB's. Graham's numbers last year also had a lot to do with the lead blocking....Askew did a lot for the running game. With him healthy, whoever is at RB will have a good year.

[Jarid]

They need to sign him before more good "reliable" talent goes away to another team.. nuff said

[BillS]

Noel nailed it - EG does not have much leverage...

[Matt]

Graham makes about the league minimum for a 5th year player. That's shameful considering how important he was to our team last year, and will be this year. He's not in the same league as LT, but he deserves a sizeable raise. I'd pay him $3 million/year and make him my starter. I think that's what Dunn was signed for, and Graham deserves no less. As for Caddy, he had one good year, and that's it. He should be asked to take a pay cut, with the difference going to Graham. Unfortunately, Gruden likes flash over reliability, so Caddy gets his money and Graham gets screwed. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Graham play out his contract and then sign with another team next year. We'll then sign another 33 year old back to a $4-6 million/year contract. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong, but I'm not optimistic.

[Mike]

So you were at mandatory mini camp and this is what you got out of it? I know most readers would probably rather hear about how players looked, who looked good, who might surprise, etc and have just about had it with the drama pieces you always seem to write. More football talk please.

[Vince]

Jay, Jay, Jay . . .

You must be one of those Tony Dungy was god, Gruden is evil, "Big Dog" clones.

Thomas Jones was a fairly good back who left the Bucs because they had salary cap issues (Rich McKay)

The Bucs did not offer Pittman a contract because of his age and because they have many other backs including Dunn, Bennett, Graham and Askew. Pittman was good, but it was the right move to let him go.

Alstott was not a great back and Gruden did not "fail to use him properly." Please. You listen to Big Dog too much.

Charlie Garner blew out a knee. So I guess he was "overpaid."

C'mon Jay . . . stop spreading the Gruden hate.

[Matt]

Vinny - Garner was ancient when the Bucs signed him, he was over 30 and he was signed at a ridiculous $4 million/year. Even before he blew out his knee, the man was averaging like 3.2 yards a carry. Trust me, the man was OVERPAID!!!!

[Andy]

He is average. Is he any better than Thomas Jones? I wouldn't pay a middle of the pack running back either. They don't last long in the league. He isn't going to do "great" things. He is going to do average things. I like him, but we could replace him. We just need to make sure we have 5 or so decent running backs going into the season.

[mummbls]

Not just in the Buccs situation, but in all contract disputes of the I had a great season reward me, we need to review the line from Mr. Deeds. If you had a bad year, would you resign for less? to many players ask for money after 1 good or great year, but even if it's 5 great pro bowl years, if you signed a contract finish it out. Take your money in free agency if you think you can continue your great playing.

[James]

Vince is exactly right. the Bucs wanted Jones but couldn't afford him because of existing cap problems. Pittman was average at best and Alstott was never ever a "great RB". To even suggest that just shows how ignorant you are. If Alstott was such a "great RB" then why after 7 Pro Bowls will the man always have to buy a ticket to get into the Hall or Fame? Mike was an elite power runner in certain situations (when leading after the 4th Quarter) but nothing more.

[James]

Insert 3rd Quarter above.

[Brandon]

So what? EG gets the league minimum! Up until last season he did the minimum and was vastly overpaid. He needs to quit whining about the contract and get out there, this is his last year under contract and if he is truly worth the money then he'll be well-compensated for it next year.

[michele]

EG is the NEW Plane,Train,and Automobile of the BUCS.Don't lose him Chucky..(your "baby" Caddy has proven NOTHING but he can get hurt easily and repeatedly)... EG is a TEAM PLAYER,never gives up,and never loses yards...
GO GRAHAM.. hope you get what your asking for!!!!

[DR]

You guys claim to be tired from Gruden bashing but keep on using the same lame excuse, they were in cap hell. That's a gross exaggeration. The Bucs got Thomas Jones and Michael Pittman for cheap and they had to make a choice to sign one or the other. Of course, they went with the cheaper player. Lynch wasn't a cap casualty, they decided that his injury wasn't worth the risk, even though he offered to play for the Vet's minimum, which Tampa could afford. They made wise decisions too. They let Sapp walk after getting the best out of him and the Rice release was smart, but it was done in a cowardly way.
they haven't drafted well, especially Gruden's first few years and yes I am counting the 2 draft picks Gruden cost. I don't think Gruden's coaching talent has lived up to the 2 1st round picks they could have had. With his history, they wouldn't have gotten much anyways. Gruden has depended upon veteran pick ups to get his team anywhere and his offense hasn't come close to his supposed legacy.
EG has been in a bad spot his entire career. He has played well in every preseason and had to take a back seat the last few years to back up an investment. That's all Caddy has been, an investment. He hasn't played to his #5 pick status. He's not even the 5th best RB in his draft class. So if you guys want to dog out EG for leading the Bucs last year to a playoff berth, you better dog out Caddy first and stop playing the pity card for him. Right now, EG has more value to the Bucs than Caddy does. You can't even argue that.

[IMISS_No47]

Hard to argue with DR...

[Vince]

DR, if nothing else at least you are consistent. Man, I don't know where you get your point of view, but you are always good for a laugh.

Too much to take issue with, so let me just point out one of your knocks on Gruden and the Bucs draft picks. I know you are a Dungy/McKay lover so this will be tough for you to handle. Just follow me . . .Gruden has never liked Simms, right? Deep dropping, deep throwing pocket passer -- not good for WC offense. Did Gruden draft Simms with one of those "early draft picks" you are citicizing? No. That was your boy McKay right? The same guy that caused all the salary cap problems? Who did Gruden want to draft instead of Simms? Nobody special right -- just B. Westbrook? I guess Westbrook would not have helped this team more than Simms?

Now DR, how do you reconcile those facts with your critcism of Gruden? Could it possibly be that your Dungy/McKay team should shoulder some of the blame?

(By the way, have you seen the mess in Atlanta? Who has been the GM up there?)

[JR]

"I don't think Gruden's coaching talent has lived up to the 2 1st round picks they could have had."

I dont know about anyone else but i would give up two first round picks for a super bowl. Any other takers?

[cory]

Who cares. I'd rather have bennett and dunn carrying the ball. If any of you watched or read anything elsewhere, you would know everyone around the league views graham as very average. We have a top 10 line when it comes to running. Whoever said that cadillac should take a pay cut and give the money to graham is out of their mind. Cadillac is the starter when he's back, plain and simple. You can't blame cadillac for not having a 1000 yard season runnning behind that joke of a line with gradkowski at qb. He should get a pass on one of our team's more forgettable seasons.

[cory]

I remember DR giving me crap for making an exaggeration by saying gradkowski couldn't throw the ball more than 10 yards. Now he says cadillac isn't even a top 5 back from his draft class. HE WON ROOKIE OF THE YEAR.

[Jay]

Oh Vince, put the pipe down.

First and foremost, I was never a Dungy guy, and I'm hardly a Gruden / Allen basher, so you can retire that line of argument right away. I've also never spent a second listening to sports radio and never will, so I'm assuming Big Dog is some loudmouth who spouts something sophmoric and deluded.

My argument for Alstott is that he has ALWAYS been a power runner, but under Gruden he was often used the same way Pittman was, and that was as a relief valve for the dump off out in the flat. Pittman, on the other hand, was the primary back, and would get the "dive" plays up the middle, often for a loss of yardage or a minimal gain. That's the A-Train's wheelhouse, and very rarely did we EVER see him get his number called in those scenarios, so I'll stick by my assertion that he was under utilized and mismanaged. You don't have to be a Gruden hater to figure that out.

As for Garner, Matt already addressed that, so there's no need to reiterate the point, but it lends credence to the reasons why you believe that Jones was let go. Not enough cap space? Well, if we didn't have the dead money from the whole Keyshawn issue, the Kenyatta Walker issue, and the aforementioned overpaying for people like Garner and Steussie, then maybe we could have held on to him. He didn't go to Chicago for much more, so maybe it was just about getting playing time and appreciation.

That all leads me back to EG's current situation. The Patriots have proven that a little loyalty goes a lot farther than a big paycheck, so if the front office was at least a bit more honest (and didn't throw its players under the bus in the media spotlight), they might save some money, and retain some good people. Maybe even recruit some others.

But if you believe that makes me a Gruden / Allen basher, then there's not much sense in arguing.

[DR]

Not sure what your point is Vince. You're the one bringing Dungy into the conversation, not me. Why is that? Dungy and Mckay should shoulder the blame? If they should, then they should receive some credit for the Super Bowl as well then. You're going to blame Mckay for Vick killing dogs like a coward too? Did you give Mckay credit when the Falcons overachieved and went to the championship game?
JR, 2 draft picks to become a super bowl team and then become nothing after that because of the lack of young talent. Even when the Bucs won their division, they never were a contender. Why? Because they have no offense.
Cory, are you really arguing ROY? Think anyone cares about ROY? What has Caddy done? He is not better than Marion Barber, Ronnie Brown, or Frank Gore. Brandon Jacobs is comparable to the talents of Caddy. I'd slot Caddy in as the 5th best back in his draft. He was definitely not the 5th best player in the draft. Gruden's west coast offense needs a RB who can catch the ball out of the back field and caddy has been terribly inconsistent in showing his ability to catch the ball.
I hate to say it but this whole Caddy argument may be worthless. He may not ever be a starting RB again. Not many players come back from the knee injury he suffered. If you know anything about any knee surgery, a less and more common knee injury, the ACL tear, usually takes a year to recover from. Most players who suffered from ACL tears, i.e. EJ, T. Davis, have said they were not the same in the first year of their come back. If you truly care about the talents of Caddy, you may not put him on the field in '08. Another thing, I love Dungy as a player and a person, but being a realist, I don't think he makes much of an impact this year or any further year. he's past his prime.

[Vince]

DR, I brought up Dungy/McKay because I know how you think (due to your numerous posts on this blog). Anyway, thanks for not addressing my question. Very consistent. Tough to admit you are wrong I guess.

I did love this comment though:

"Gruden's west coast offense needs a RB who can catch the ball out of the back field and caddy has been terribly inconsistent in showing his ability to catch the ball."

Sound like B. Westbrook? Hmmm. Proving my point?

By the way, the Bucs did little after the Super Bowl because they gave up draft picks to get Gruden (that is why no "young" talent) and they had a salary cap nightmare because McKay mortgaged the Bucs future to build half a team. Remember all those early contract extensions?

Gruden brought 26 players to the Super Bowl team, 6 starters on offense. Not to mention a brand new offense. By your logic DR (Dungy/McKay get half the credit for SB) doesn't Gruden then get credit for two teams making the Super Bowl. After all (by your logic) that was Gruden's Raider team the Bucs beat.

DR you are so silly . . .

[DR]

name the 6 offensive starters Gruden brought in, please. Another BS exaggeration.
According to you, Gruden does no wrong. No players because Mckay put them in cap hell. Bad drafts because he wanted other players and wasn't allowed a say into who gets drafted. That's a stupid assumption.
There is no question that Dungy built the Tampa defense. That Tampa defense won the Bucs the Super Bowl. If Tampa's offense was really that good, then why did the offense suck the very next year? Who did they lose on offense?
The Gruden raiders were built how? through free agency. Gruden depends straight up on free agency because he can't judge talent. To claim he would have gotten B Westbrook instead is dumb. What in Gruden's past can support your assumption that he would draft a star player?

[Vince]

DR, this is getting boring quick. You have a blind hatred for Gruden/Allen. This leads you to say preposterous things that have no basis in fact.

These are the 2002 additions: Ken Dilger, Roman Oben, Joe Jurevicious, Keenan McCardell, Michael Pittman, Ricky Dudley, Kerry Jenkins, Cornell Green. I guess none of these guys contributed??

Your comment--
"Bad drafts because he wanted other players and wasn't allowed a say into who gets drafted. That's a stupid assumption."

I did not make up the Westbrook story. Gruden has said as much. Westbrook was on the board. McKay took Simms? What don't you understand. Heck, this year Gruden did not want Talib, he wanted a WR? Do you read the paper?

Tampa's defense and offense won games in 2002. Even Tampa's most ardant Dungy fans (Barber and Brooks) have stated publicly that Gruden's "swagger" helped motivate the defense. Again, your blind hatred is getting in the way. Plus, Gruden did what Dungy could not -- win a second round playoff game and win a playoff game on the road. Again, what don't you understand?

Final one -- your comments:
"The Gruden raiders were built how? through free agency. Gruden depends straight up on free agency because he can't judge talent. To claim he would have gotten B Westbrook instead is dumb. What in Gruden's past can support your assumption that he would draft a star player?"

See my earlier comments on Westbrook. I am surprised this would be news to you?

People like you (blind haters) would ride Gruden/Allen out of town on the first train, but look what they have done. Besides winning the SB, they have totally rebuilt an aging and over cap team (not done yet, but close). While undergoing the rebuilding, the Bucs did not suck like most teams do.They struggled some, but they also won two division titles. Last year they lost to SB champs, right? Remember, all of you haters predicted doom and gloom each year.

Now the Bucs have tons of cap space and a lot of very good young players to build a team around. Hard to imagine how they could have done mcuh better of a job.

Good luck.

[Vince]

DR, this is getting boring quick. You have a blind hatred for Gruden/Allen. This leads you to say preposterous things that have no basis in fact.

These are the 2002 additions: Ken Dilger, Roman Oben, Joe Jurevicious, Keenan McCardell, Michael Pittman, Ricky Dudley, Kerry Jenkins, Cornell Green. I guess none of these guys contributed??

Your comment--
"Bad drafts because he wanted other players and wasn't allowed a say into who gets drafted. That's a stupid assumption."

I did not make up the Westbrook story. Gruden has said as much. Westbrook was on the board. McKay took Simms? What don't you understand. Heck, this year Gruden did not want Talib, he wanted a WR? Do you read the paper?

Tampa's defense and offense won games in 2002. Even Tampa's most ardant Dungy fans (Barber and Brooks) have stated publicly that Gruden's "swagger" helped motivate the defense. Again, your blind hatred is getting in the way. Plus, Gruden did what Dungy could not -- win a second round playoff game and win a playoff game on the road. Again, what don't you understand?

Final one -- your comments:
"The Gruden raiders were built how? through free agency. Gruden depends straight up on free agency because he can't judge talent. To claim he would have gotten B Westbrook instead is dumb. What in Gruden's past can support your assumption that he would draft a star player?"

See my earlier comments on Westbrook. I am surprised this would be news to you?

People like you (blind haters) would ride Gruden/Allen out of town on the first train, but look what they have done. Besides winning the SB, they have totally rebuilt an aging and over cap team (not done yet, but close). While undergoing the rebuilding, the Bucs did not suck like most teams do.They struggled some, but they also won two division titles. Last year they lost to SB champs, right? Remember, all of you haters predicted doom and gloom each year.

Now the Bucs have tons of cap space and a lot of very good young players to build a team around. Hard to imagine how they could have done mcuh better of a job.

Good luck.

[Greg]

Vince/James,

You are as unfair to Allstot as you think people are to Gruden. A-trian was a game changer for this team, and that is waht made him great when used correctly. Our offense would be going nowhere fast and A-Trian would break a few holes in the line and then make a stellar run that would change the monentum of the team. T-Bay has always had a weak O-line, so we have never had a consitent running game. A-train was the only back that could make something happen on his own. Stop the A-train bashing if you want people to stop the Gruden bashing.

And get off your high arrogant horses!

[The Bull Gator]

Reading through all these comments, I have to wonder if we are all talking about the same person. Graham had one DECENT year. 898 yards, 10 TDs. Some of you are talking like he blew up for 1,500+ with 15-18 touchdowns. He performed well behind an improving offensive line. He has not proven himself longterm (which is exactly why it required multiple injuries for him to finally get a great number of carries) and he had a number of games where he had low yards per carry numbers. Graham was a bright spot of the 2007 season and I really like him (being a Gator and Buc fan), but he doesn't deserve big money. He may be slightly underpaid, but the Bucs are trying to avoid overpaying a guy who realistically had 1 DECENT year.

And for the guy who said Caddy should take a pay cut. Since his rookie year the offensive line only got worse. It's not entirely his fault his numbers went down. Now the Bucs have a good young core across the OL and if Williams can ever come back 100%, he is 10 times the back Graham is. If he can't, then the Bucs need to seriously look at RB in the draft next year, because Graham is not the longterm solution.

[DR]

Vince, you are weak. See, you didn't name 6 starters now did you? You're the one with all the BS excuses with no knowledge. You seem to forget that the Dungy led Bucs were one amazing play away from going to the Super Bowl. They held one of the best offenses ever in the NFL to 11 points and an amazing play. Dungy would have picked up an additional WR if they allowed him to coach a few more years. But still, the Bucs defense won the super bowl. The key pieces to Gruden's offense were already there. BJ, Alstott, and Key. If Gruden was so great like you say he is, then why did his offense suck despite still having all his pick ups from the year before?
Of course any coach would say they would have picked up Westbrook he they had another chance. Hindsight is 20/20. Gruden's draft choices throughout his career says he would have picked up a bust since that is what he usually picks up. Gruden has never drafted an all pro offensive player, so to say he would have picked up Westbrook is ridiculous. He can't spot talent. EG has been on his bench the last few years and for what reason? He was forced to play EG last year.
To call a 7-9, 11-6, 5-11, 11-6, 4-12, and 9-8 rebuilding is stupid. It's called retooling. Rebuilding involves good drafting. The Bucs have some good young prospects on defense but their offense doesn't look good at all. They haven't developed any young offensive talent. Their young guys get worse. But let me guess, that's Mckay's fault too.

[Vince]

DR:

I did not name 6 starters? Do you mean because there are two tight ends? Everyone of those players contributed significantly.

Gruden said -- at the time --- that he would have drafted Westbrook. Pretty widely known fact. Not hindsight.

The one game you mention proves my point. The Bucs lost to the Rams because of absolutely no offense. Sean King right? Who was the offensive coordinator Shula or Clyde Christianson --there's two big names for you? Dungy believed that he could win with just defense (because of his experience with Steelers).

In the Super Bowl it was Pittman who ran for all those yards (behind Oben and tight ends) and McCardell with the catches. What planet are you from?

No young talent on offense? What? I guess you do not think the line (nucleus) of the team is young and good?

You think EG is proof Gruden cannot spot talent? Wow. That is just wierd? The Bucs (rightfully) do not think that EG is that great. There is a reason he has been a backup and was not drafted high. Good football player. Great guy, but slow. Don't confuse good line play with a great running back.

Your ridiculous comments about EG are an appropriate point to end this discussion. Not worth anymore energy because you do not know what you are talking about.

Bye, bye.

[Jay]

Vince, I believe the offensive coordinator was Les Steckel, and the fact is, if it were not for that RIDICULOUSLY bad call on Bert Emanuel, (which they immediately changed in the offseason) Shaun King would have been your SuperBowl QB of the future. Remember, the Bucs were marching down the field, Dunn recovered a fumble and GAINED yards on a truly miraculous play, and it seemed like nothing could stop them from scoring.

As for Pittman, how many games has he run over 100 yards, not including the SuperBowl? (It's 7 total with the Bucs). How many 1000+ yard rushing seasons has he had? Zero.

I'm not just hating on Pittman, but if that's your primary work horse, your offense WILL sputter. Now by comparison, Alstott, while splitting carries with Dunn in 2001, still had 10 TD's, and 949 rushing yards (Dunn had 3 TD's, and 300+ rushing yards). And in 2002, when Pittman was your "workhorse" offensive weapon - 1TD, 718 yards.

Now since we're playing the stats game, Earnest Graham played in ONLY 10 games, rushed for 898 yards, and 10 TD's. When you shelve your best rushing threat, promote someone clearly inferior, and your 3RD STRING RB outperforms your starter for the last 5 years - yeah, I'd say you have a really poor eye for recognizing talent.

[Vince]

Jay:

The Bucs did not lose against the Rams because of the Bert Emanual call, although it was an awful call. The Bucs lost because the Shaun King-led offense (did you say QB of the future? you realize he could not even make the backup role for any other team) could not even get a first down. Did you watch the game. many, many 3 and outs. The Bucs loss to the Rams is the perfect symbol for the Dungy-era Bucs. Incredible defense but no offense at all. Dungy believed he could win with defense as long as his offense did not lose the game for him.

By the way, one of the reasons Alstott had the stats you cite is because the Bucs played get the lead and control the ball and Alstott was the perfect in-the-lead back. I am a big Alstott fan. I thing he was a very good running back, just not great. An even better person. Even better teammate! Great all the way around. But, does anyone really think he would have been a seven time Pro Bowler as a halfback that split time. C'mon. Alstott as a "fullback" was almost a running joke in the league. I also don't believe Gruden ruined the end of his career intentionally. Alstott, just like Simms, was not a fit for the WC offense which uses running backs for check downs and blocking (I suppose you think Alstott was a great blocker?)

Your comments on EG's stat are just like DR's. You mistake running for great line play. I know this will make you angry, but sorry. The Bucs believe (I think correctly) that a healthy Caddy has a 1400 yard season. Think about it. How many of EG's 20 yard runs become 30 or 40 yard runs with Caddy due to the huge difference in speed. Do you remember the play that Caddy was hurt on? Get my point. The line this last eyar was much better than the line in Caddy's big year. Caddy is not great (can't catch) but you have to be joking if you honestly believe (based on the stats) that EG is a better option. The guy played great but cmon? If you think EG is that great than you are smarter than every professional talent evaluator in the NFL. What are you doing writing blogs? You should be in the NFL. Please . . .

Also curious why you seem to think "talent evaluation" is a Gruden skill. You must believe that Allen is a Gruden puppet right? That whole Bucs PP department answers to Gruden, right? Wow.

[Kurt]

I just would like to say one thing; the reason we lost the NFC Championship game was coaching. If Dungy had stuck to what got him there, we would have won (Bert or not.) We twice went for first downs inside the 30 instead of letting Automatica kick field goals. Add it up and you have a 15-11 Bucs win. Dungy's fault; plain and simple. I still think he's a great coach, but those are the facts. Furthermore, Zeir should have started that game as he was the better QB. Dungy wanted his "boy" to play and it cost us. Graham was undrafted, but it was Gruden who brought him to camp and kept him on the roster, so DR, you are wrong about his ability to judge talent, as he did make the team. Not to mention that he has had a hand in rebuilding this very old team to be competitive again with a nice blend of veterans and youth. That's enough.

[Jay]

Vince,

I was saying that Shaun King would have been a SuperBowl QB, and that gives him a lot more traction into holding on to his job. Remember, he was a rookie that year, 3rd string QB who stepped up and took the team 20 yards from victory with what we would both agree was a TERRIBLE offensive line. Granted, I'm not impartial when it comes to Shaun because I played against him in high school (he went to Gibbs, I went to St. Pete) and I had nothing but respect and admiration for him. So it could be personal opinions skewing my viewpoint.

I've said this before, but I think Alstott was a "great" because he changed the way the league views the position of the Fullback. He could catch, he was an average blocker (much better than most RB's, but not as good as some FB's), but could pound it up the middle when called upon. He is not a Lorenzo Neal wrecking ball type of guy. But he changed the position completely by being so versatile. To me, someone who makes that big of an impact, where the rest of the league has to adapt to just his presence, makes him someone great.

Now I will also be the first to agree that the o-line play has improved dramatically, and EG has reaped the benefits of such. But just watching tape on EG, Caddy, and Pittman last year, it was obvious who possessed the best field vision, patience, and running strength. Caddy has never made it through a full season on his own (even in college he was hurt, and split carries) so I can't see him as a full time option. He runs VERY strong for his size (or at least used to) and is determined to break tackles after initial contact, so I am still impressed with him. Whether or not he can be that player again is a different story. He reminds me of a stronger Warrick Dunn.

As for Pittman, well, I don't miss him. He had very good hands, above average speed, but couldn't follow a block to save his life, or break a tackle from a wet paper bag. He is a glorified receiver.

As for Allen / Gruden, I don't know enough about their working dynamic to say who runs the PP department. I do know that Monte Kiffin has final say on defensive players taken, and his eye has been especially sharp (Ian Gold not withstanding). If Gruden runs and owns the offense, then the blame must fall on his shoulders. Call that bashing if you like, but the evidence shows a pattern of poor decision making.

[Skylar]

...poor decision making that earned him 3 division titles and a superbowl in his 6 years as head coach. That's also without two firsts and and seconds to work with in his first 2 years, but whose counting? I'm sure he'll take your criticism considering your lack of insight. Nonetheless, the owner's were smart enough to sign him to an extension so the rest of us don't have to replace a winner with who knows who you'd pick.

[Vince]

Jay,

Good points. I think all you have to do is look at the history to see who makes the PP decisions. I mentioned Simms v Westbrook earlier and this year Talib over a WR.