Last word on Sunday's QB decision

As you probably know, we've reported that backup QB Luke McCown was under the impression he would start Sunday's game if Jeff Garcia was unable to play.

Obviously, that didn't happen. Coach Jon Gruden went with Brian Griese, which is his prerogative.

But there are a few things here that don't add up. Gruden said on more than one occasion last week that McCown was handling the majority of the practice snaps while Garcia did little because of his calf injury. That's what led us to believe McCown would be the starter in the first place. I submit this quote from Thursday as evidence: "Luke has been taking a lot of snaps and Brian is going to work himself back in tomorrow (Friday). For the first time, really, in the past couple months we're seeing him throw the ball as well as he is. So, that's a good sign for us."

But today, Gruden changed his story. He said Garcia took lots of snaps in practice last week and, as a result, neither McCown nor Griese had adequate preparation to start the game. He said that's why he went with Griese, because he had played the Falcons earlier this season. And Griese is obviously more experienced, which theoretically makes him better-equipped to handle the situation on such short notice.

Here's Gruden's quote: "We have a 90-play walk-through . . . which pretty much explains the game plan for the quarterback. And Jeff took all those. . . Neither one of those guys (McCown and Griese) was really prepared to be the starter in the game."

Gov. Sarah Palin might accuse me of practicing "gotcha journalism" here. I prefer to call it an attempt to sort out the facts. It appears Gruden is being less than honest here, which certainly is not a deadly sin in the NFL.

But the question is why?

Here's my theory: Gruden knows his decision to play Griese might be interpreted as a slap in the face to McCown, who is in the final year of his contract and would appear to have a dim future in Tampa based on Sunday's move. All indications are that McCown took a big percentage of the reps last week and, in his words, "had a great week of practice." Still, he doesn't get the start. It's natural for Gruden to look for a justification for playing Griese over McCown that doesn't include an admission that "I trust Griese more than McCown."

It's not fair to put words in Gruden's mouth, and that's not the intention here. But the bottom line here is that McCown does not appear to be held in very high regard here, and there's just no ignoring that. 

Comments

[Mark]

does anyone think the bucs still have a shot at the division? I know the last 2 weeks have been bad, but the panthers have to go to new york and new orleans. The giants are 6-1 at home and the nfc south is perfect at home against divisional opponents. The bucs face san diego and oakland, at home, where they are 6-0. does anyone think the bucs and panthers will finish both 11-5 and bucs getting the division over the better conference record?

[Matt H]

Mark, its possible but firstly the Giants have looked ordinary the past 2 weeks and the Falcons could win out too and be tied 8-4 on conference record with us, then it may come down to some odd TD/Scoring tiebreaker??

We only have the tiebreaker over them now because we've played more NFC games.

[graydon]

No Mark I don't agree with your post. I think after the performances over the last 2 games we may not even make a wild card spot. Atlanta is right on our butt and we stand a chance of getting gashed by the run this week.

[shane]

Mark, I do believe the Bucs will win this week against the pathetic Chargers(who dont have much of a run game this year Graydon) and the Giants will not lose a 3rd straight game at home this Sunday night when the winner of that game will get the #1 seed in the playoffs. With that said, it looks like it will come down to needing the Saints, who are playing for nothing, to beat the Panthers the last week of the season to give us the division title assuming we win our last two games against terrible teams. There is definately a chance of this scenerio happening.

Matt, we hold the tiebreaker over Atlanta if we both win out by strength of schedule.(see www.buccaneers.com for playoff tiebreakers).

[Matt H]

I looked it up and the 5th tiebreaker is "strength of victory" which given that we have all the same games as the Falcons but 2, (we both lost to the NFC East teams) but both beat the NFC West teams and our win over 3-11 Seattle would give us the tiebreak over the Falcons win over the 2-12 Rams.

[Opinion Master]

I agree with graydon.
The bucs defense gave up 300 yards rushing to the Pnathers, and another near 200 to the Falcons.
Granted turner, deangelo williams and Stewert are good backs, so is L.T. and Oakland is 10th in the league in rushing.
Phillips is done, and Sabby, though he has potential, he is a rookie and will miss assignments.

If we cannot score points, we won't win either, and as someone on another blog pointed out, Gruden seems scared to take chances and try and score points, rather, he wants to depend on his defense to keep it close.

[Drew]

Stephen,

Thanks for publishing this article. I agree, Gruden is being less than honest. Given the circumsatnces it's not likely Luke will be here next year. The same may be said about Garcia and Griese.

[shane]

Strength of victory; not schedule is what I meant. Basically winning our next two guarantees us a playoff spot. 1 loss and a 10-6 record would not guarantee a playoff and we wouldnt even be deserving of one if that happens anyway. The season would definately be considered a failure losing 3 of final 4 games.

[Opinion Master]

oh yea, the Chargers also have that Rivers guy, who is probably playing as well as any QB this year.

[Stephen Holder]

I'm not going to overwhelm anyone with all the scenarios (I only slept four hours last nite after flying home from Atlanta). But to keep it simple, if the Bucs win out, they're in -- period. If they win out and the Panthers go 0-2, yes, they are still alive for the division title and -- depending on other factors -- a first-round bye. It's going to be a pretty crazy finish, but the Bucs can make it easy by going 2-0.

[shane]

Stephen, it they win out and panthers go 0-2, they win the division period.

Opinion Master, I got the statue(Rivers) down for 2 pics and 5 sacks on Sunday regardless of who is left to rush the passer from bucs depleted D line.

[Vince]

Stephen, those are exactly the right words to put in Gruden's mouth. This is the problem with Gruden since he has been with the Bucs. He has changed from the aggressive offensive play caller to the ultra-conservative coach who plays not to lose. This is what happens when you have a lot of bad offensive teams propped up by a great defense.

The pick of Griese over McCown smacks of classic hyper-conservatism. Griese is the pick that will not lose the game for you while McCown is the pick who could win the game for you (how nice would it have been to have the big arm and mobility), but may also lose the game. Gruden got almost exactly what he asked for -- a boring, no risk game by an ultra aconservative, check down throwing Griese. Problem is the "don't lose it for us" mentality led to a couple of costly sacks, lots of 4 yard throws on third and 5, and only one touchdown.

If I were McCown, I would pack my bags. He deserves much better.

[Bucdrew]

I know I'm looking ahead here..but it makes you wonder who our QB of the future is, if it isn't Luke McCown. Gruden can't expect Garcia to continue to start much longer, not with the punishment he takes, and there's no way we go anywhere with Griese at QB. So what? Talk Jake Plummer out of retirement? Matt Cassel?

[OAR]

Stephen: I submit this quote from Thursday as evidence: "Luke has been taking a lot of snaps and Brian is going to work himself back in tomorrow (Friday). For the first time, really, in the past couple months we're seeing him throw the ball as well as he is. So, that's a good sign for us."
That quote sounds to me like he is talking about Griese in the last couple of months throwing as well as he has.
Besides this would be non issue if they didnt have so many penalties(poor field position) and penalties(drive killers).

[Brandon]

Holder,

Ever since preseason you've been a big Griese supporter, talked about how accurrate he is, how smart... blech!

I constantly battled you and Kurt concerning Griese's weak arm, poor mobility, penchant for throwing pick 6's and especially is inability to beat defenses downfield when his receivers were challenged in the shortzones. Both of you guys scoffed at me, both of you guys couldn't have been more wrong. Griese is a total bum and has done ZERO to prove otherwise. McCown should have been #2 all season, Griese shouldn't be in the league. Here's the thing, we could have lined Sam Wyche at QB the other day and been able to muster more than 10 points. Griese is a complete and total liability and he and all of his supporters need to go.

[JD]

Stephen: Do you have any idea what Gruden's issue is with McCown? I am baffled he didn't start. Putting in Griese doesn't seem conservative -- it seems risky. He got very lucky he didn't have a vintage Griese pick returned for a TD on a rediculous pass to the left flat. I feel like I have seen him throw that pick repeatedly over the years. He might be smart but he is not athletic, and makes boneheaded plays. He threw into tight double coverage at least 3 times yesterday and the only reason he didn't get picked off on each of those is because the coverage was so tight the defenders both fought for the ball. How bad is McCown because he seems like a far more conservative option than a weak-armed, immobile, interception prone QB that falls down playing a game of two-hand touch. I am still just simply in shock. If not for the defense this game would have been a blow-out (two TD saving turnovers). 10 points against the 23rd ranked defense is out of control, and I feel like there is only one person to pin this loss on...Gruden. I am a Gruden supporter and think he is a great coach, but his aversion to McCown and adoration of Griese is mind-boggling. I just don't get it.

[Stephen Holder]

Brandon, that's true. I did say a lot of positive things about Griese. I stand by those things, but I never said he should play over Garcia. I just said that Gruden felt more comfortable playing Griese than Luke and made a case for why. Remember, I'm not taking sides here. I'm just pointing out that Jon isn't being honest here. Don't misconstrue that to mean that I'm some kind of Griese campaigner. That's absolutely untrue.

[Nick]

Whats it gonna take to fire this guy. He stinks. Every year is gonna be the same story. He may be missing out on a really good QB in McCown. We will never know because next year some other old washed up QB will start. He doesn't know how to develop anyone. Get this guy out of here. He's turning a proud franchise into a dysfunctional one and no free agent will want to come here.

[Brandon]

I think the Bucs try to bring Garcia back into the mix next season, probably hammer out another 2 year deal with a nice bonus in it. In the meantime regarding the future.

Matt Cassell- may be franchised by the Pats, if not perhaps the Bucs and all their free cap space make a run. He might be the real deal, he might be a one year wonder. I think he gets better incrementally with playing time.

Kyle Boller- not likely to stick around B-more, has great physical tools and better production than people care to remember. Still may be viewed as too erratic to hand over the keys to.

Donovan McNabb- if the Eagles cut their losses and send him packing Tampa would be a good fit from a schematic standpoint.

Tyler Thigpen- Chiefs current starter looks like the real deal to me and a definite keeper, but if for some reason the Chiefs elect to take a QB #1 then Thigpen will carry some serious value to a number of QB hungry teams.

Matt Leinart- Cards backup isn't likely to leave the desert with Warner up in years, but if Warner gets a big contract, Leinart might have to go.

JP Losman- Has physical tools but not the mental acumen to be a starter for a long time...

Rex Grossman- If the Bears let him loose he will be picked up by somebody. Skills aren't outstanding but he has played well in the NFL before and might take nicely to the warm tampa weather.

Alex Smith- former #1 overall pick has nice tools for a WCO QB. Mix that with consistently bad coaching and marginal talent around him and perhaps he could be a good reclamation project.

I purposely left out Derek Anderson and Michael Vick because one would be a catostrophically bad fir in the WCO and the other would not really be a QB having been away from the game for 2 years and most likely missing most of TC.

[Nick]

Brandon,
you really think Garcia is gonna come back and play for Gruden after this year. You're nuts. After all the crap Gruden has pulled.

[Brandon]

JD,

I couldn't agree with you more. McCown has oodles of talent and might only need experience to show he can play... he'll never get it behind noodle-armed, immobile, INT prone Griese.

How is that a QB that is put on such a high pedestal for being smart can make such stupid throws on such a consistent basis? Chris Houston SHOULD have had a pick-6 against Griese but I think he was thrown off by the sidearm changeup Griese threw and dropped it. A 15 yard out to Bryant along the right sideline was thrown into triple coverage with all 3 defenders having a better shot at it than Bryant.

My thing is this, Griese campaigners and lovers like to say that Griese ALWAYS gets us into the right play... but you know what? It doesn't matter if he gets us into the right play if the guy can't execute. I'd rather see Luke McCown in there with the wrong play called than Griese having the right play called.

[Nick]

You guys need to get it out of your heads that Carolina is going to lose out. They look like the Best team right now. Unless we go to Arizona, who i think we can beat, we're in for another 1 and done.

[Erick]

I think it definitely says something about Gruden's inability to be honest with his players and the fans. Just tell people whats up. I think McCown's inexperience is outweighed by his scrambling and big play ability. Imagine a defense actually fearing the big play from Tampa. Just give the guy a chance to learn. It definitely makes you think about whose gonna be throwing the ball next year. Am I he only one tired of stop-gap quarterbacks?

I've defended Gruden quite a bit but starting Griese was the worst move I've seen so far and we all saw the results. SOmethin's gotta give here or we're gonna be saying the same things next year. I'm not ok with perpetual mediocrity.

[Brandon]

Nick,

If the money is right, he'd play for anybody, especially Gruden. The guy's 38 years old and he'll get a shot to play and win in an offense that he is made for. Not many teams are going to be knocking down the door of a 39 year old injury prone QB that can ONLY play in the WCO.

[Nick]

Im calling a 3-13 record next year.

[Erick]

On the other hand...we could be the Lions.

[Nick]

When has Gruden and Allen ever given anyone money? It's scotch tape holding together the titanic. Now you want us to overpay (the money is right then) for a QB who has never lasted a full season with us.

[Olan Hill]

Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter where the Bucs end up in the Divisional Standings. Despite their misleading record, the Bucs are simply a very mediocre football team that seems to be getting worse each week. The play calling is horrible and far too conservative and the Defense is showing its age. Without a doubt, any of the Divisional leaders or playoff contenders would love to see the Bucs take one of the wildcards. Whoever gets the Bucs, gets an automatic victory! I'm simply being realistic, as opposed to pessimistic.

[Nick]

I'd rather go 4-12 developing a QB for the future with the potential for a franchise QB than 10-6 with a fly by night QB who has no future with us. who knows, we may get lucky and find a Ryan, Brady, Cassel, we'll never know.

[Brandon]

Holder,

I admit, you never came out and said you supported or loved Griese but you failed to realize the facts that as impressed as you were with Griese's preseason performance, the guy rarely threw the ball more than 5 yards past the LOS, checked down more than not, and played against soft preseason defenses that didn't challenge the WRs. These are points you should have made instead of pouring the Kool-aid for the brainless folks around here that don't realize that a 75% completion means very little when defenses were giving 5-10 yard cushions and the guy's average yards per completion was less than 5.

Brad Johnson was a similar QB to Brian Griese with one big exception. Brad Johnson had excellent size, though Brad was dreadfully slow he wasn't a complete statue in the pocket and at least tried to use his legs and finally Brad had a ton of heart... Griese is basically Brad without a heart (which is a huge slam considering Brad's heart was probably his greatest attribute).

[Erick]

McCown should be our opening day starter next year. If not him, then maybe trade for McNabb.

I'm curious as well about why Gruden doesn't like McCown. I'm no expert so some expert advice might be helpful. And what's the deal with Josh Johnson? Is he a 2012 project or is he remotely ready to be a starter?

[Brandon]

Nick:

I never said overpay Garcia. I was one of the ones saying NOT to give Garcia his money during the preseason. I'm saying give Garcia a nice incentive laden contract based on performance and playing time incentives. Garcia made very little for us this season, I'm saying that if we paid him a salary equal to the what the average starting NFL QB makes then we would be paying him far more than the next highest bidder which would make the decision easy for Garcia. He's worth a lot more to us than he would be to other teams.

[Nick]

Gruden and Allen tried the incentive contract. Garcia was going to meet it until he was benched for the last two games of last season remember. I dont think Garcia will fall for that again. The relationship is ruined. Garcia is as good as gome

[Nick]

gone

[Brandon]

Johnson is valuable enough for us to carry 4 QBs on the active roster all season long. Apparently he is valuable enough to not risk putting him on waivers and the practice squad.

Johnson has a pretty good arm but what really stands out about him is his athleticism and ridiculous production in college (same division as Flacco, Romo and others). He has a very quick release and decent enough size (he's bigger than the 6'2 201 he is listed at on the Buc web site...6'3 214) but with him as the 3rd and 4th string QB for a good percentage of the year, he hasn't gotten many reps this season and it is highly unlikely that a fair evaluation can be made of him as a pro at this point.

If Garcia can't play on Sunday, there is no way McCown shouldn't be the one out there. His ability to make plays far outweighs Griese's ability to supposedly get us in the right play (because Griese can't execute said play). And if all things being equal (sacks and ints) it would be McCown's big play potential that would be the biggest difference maker.

[Brandon]

No Nick,

You had it almost right. Garcia is as good as gone (perhaps, but seriously, where are his suitors that would want him as THE starter?). While Griese is as good as a GNOME.

[JD]

Who knows what will happen with Garcia. The issue is he's just OK. He plays yard ball which is sometimes good and sometimes not. He misses a lot of open receivers because of his happy feet, size and conservative play. But, his biggest issue is his health. He has proven he can't make it through a season. He would be an AWESOME #2 which is how Philly used him. His health is simply not reliable enough to count on him as a #1 and I don't see anyone taking that risk. This could be two years in a row he rallies the team to the playoffs and then limps in for a loss.

What I still can't get over is McCown. He is a free agent -- why not see what he has. We know what Griese has, and its not impressive. McCown looked promissing last year when he played. Sure, he made some rediculous turnovers, but Griese has made far more rediculous turnovers. Plus, Griese has proven time and again that he moves backwards in the redzone. It is truly bizarre.

Once again, I think Gruden is a good coach and a good playcaller. People bash him for both but in his scheme a lot of the offense is on the shoulders of the QB...which is why he likes veterans. Where I blame him is on player evaluations. He misses the mark pretty significantly on occassion, but also hits some homeruns (ie Bryant who is a beast). I just don't know why he didn't at least try McCown this week knowing he is in a free agent season. It is discouraging if we kept McCown around this long just to see him leave in free agency.

[Erick]

Great assessment JD. I agree about not at least seeing what McCown has.

[IdahoBUCfan]

It will be Very disappointing if we lose Luke after this year, I believe he has what we need! Give the Kid a chance!!! GO BUCS!

[Clint]

What's the point about talking playoffs when our offense is non-existent? (Especially with the offensive guru Gruden running the show :P.)

[Matt H]

If we had have got across the line yesterday we could have started McCown and had Josh Johnson as the #2 against the Raiders, but between Trueblood channelling Kenyatta Walker, special teams holding on pretty much every kickoff and the red-carpet we seem to have between the two DT's, we don't have that luxury.

And if Garcia & Bryant don't come back next year and with Monte gone I don't think Nick is too far off with a 3-13 next year.

[Brandon]

OK, so will it be 3-13? If so, perhaps I decide to cut Sunday ticket next year, skip watching Bucs games (the last time I didn't watch every game was 96) and do something else... Maybe I'll get a life and quit hitching my hopes and dreams to a team that is moronic enough to hire Brian Griese as a player and then actually play him.

[Jimmy]

What happened to Galloway?

[Leo In Canada]

Up here they are reporting Carl Peterson is packing it in after this season. The new boss will most likely want his own coach. Herm should be available if both sides like the fit at Defensive Coordinator.
As for QB's, the Bucs brought Griese back after they had McCown for a while. They new about Garcia's lack of durability and wanted a 1 & 1a situation. Agree or disagree, McCown is 3rd string until something drastic happens.
As for free agents, Cassel can't take his O Line or system with him. McNabb has consistently proved he cannot win the big game. If Favre is able & willing, he could come in early, learn the system and be well prepared for a 1 or 2 year run. Like it or not, Griese would back him up and maybe, just maybe Johnson would move up to 3rd string. A leopard cannot change it's spots and neither will Coach Gruden. As we all know, he is fixed in his ways. I don't listen to what he says, I watch his patterns.

[Ben]

Come on people its time we stand up as fans and get Gruden out of here!This guys play calling is pathetic and predictable! We are in trouble now that we are losing our Defensive coordinator, Kiffin is leaving to get away from this premadonna who cant deliver a competitive offense! The defense has been carrying this team for years. Gruden and Allen need to go! someone needs to come in and rebuild this offense from the ground up, starting with a QB who can develop into a star, We need to get rid of these old fozzie players like galloway who wont catch a ball unless it is thrown right in his arms! Where is the discipline on the offensive side of the ball? if it wasnt for Garcia this team would probally be at 500 right now! Its time to rebuild this team and the place to start is getting a new coach and GM who want to build a team from the ground up and develop some young guys who can provide some fire to this team! Gruden has shown nothing! its time for him to go!

[Drew]

A franchise QB with YA Tittle's mobility, Joe Montana's smarts, Brett Favre's arm, Tom Brady's composure and Dan Marino's quick release is all I want for Christmas.

Josh Johnson? Maybe... However, we'll never know, because Gruden will never play him.

[Adam]

Why is anyone surprised that the Bucs coaching staff, front office, and management have opened their mouths and said absolutely NOTHING. This team constantly shoots it's mouth off and says NOTHING as a result. There's no point in reading anything that comes from the team because it's all double-talk and disinformation. Just for kicks, listen to the Jon Gruden show (you can download it on itunes every week). TJ Rieves never asks a tough question or one that might remotely challenge Gruden. It's always, "You were able to run the ball on Sunday...talk about that." I'm getting sick of it.

[Kyle]

I am a lifelong Bucs fan raised in Clearwater and currently residing in Denver. I am not privy to local Buc media other than what I see here on this site, so my opinions are based rather on what I see on the field. That said, I have watched the Bucs all season feeling as if something werent quite right. Even when they were winning and in 1st place,it just didnt feel right that they were where they were. I saw them, play here in Denver, and they were not a good football team, and I think they are an even worse team at this juncture. I am of the opinion that Gruden has simply run his course and it is time that he and his QB's make an exit. There is an immense amount of talent on this team, but that talent is poorly managed and the current team philosophy doesnt seem to play to anyone's strengths. Seeing that Kiffin is on his way out, it makes sense to cut bait on the entire coaching staff and those players who are attached to this regime, but very past their prime (read: Barber). I certainly hope the Bucs make the playoffs, but I dont believe they have the meddle to go very deep. This again, I believe is a reflection of a poor coaching staff and poor decision making in general...Just my 2¢

[youkiddingme?]

Maybe Gruden likes McCown more than we think...Maybe he doesn't want to get the kid KILLED out there, so he starts Griese who's already hurt and saves McCown for another day.

But I agree with Kyle. It's time this whole staff pack up and go.

[Oldcrank]

Agreed. Looking beyond Gruden's quirky player relationships and mind-numbing play calling, his inability to recognize college talent is dismal. Most of the quality players on this team were here before him or defensive or established elsewhere. His choices for coaching assistants suck. Bisscia & Muir, yuck. This would be a good time to start fresh