Democrats sue over DNC primary stance

Details to come, but the Buzz is that Hillsborough Democratic activists Vic DiMaio and Michael Steinberg are suing the DNC over the primary issue. From the legal eagles we've talked to, this won't be a slam dunk. On the one hand the Supreme Court has recognized the right of parties to control their nominating process, but on the other Florida has voting rights counties that could come into play if people's ability to participate is impeded.

From Bill Varian: The lawsuit was filed in the Middle District of Florida, Tampa Division, by Victor DiMaio, a long-time political consultant who also serves on the Hillsborough County Democratic Executive Committee. He is represented by Social Security lawyer Michael Steinberg, a perennial candidate for office who also sits on the executive committee and served as a Florida delegate in 2004.

The lawsuit is a declaratory action, meaning DiMaio is seeking clarification of the law rather than damages. It names the Democratic National Committee and Florida Democratic Party as defendants.

Steinberg acknowledged that a 1981 U.S. Supreme Court out of Wisconsin confirmed the right of national parties to determine how they chose their presidential nominees. But he said a 1944 U.S. Supreme Court case struck down a state rule that forbid blacks from serving as delegates, on part of equal protection grounds.

He said he believes the two rulings providing conflicting guidance.

As such, Steinberg said there is a need to clarify whether political parties have an absolute right to set voting rules. Not clarifying the issue now may invite chaos during the general election campaign, in part by inviting lawsuits from any candidate who loses by a narrow minority, and once again bring ridicule on Florida, he said.

"We're asking the courts to determine whether the national party rules supercede states' right to set a primary," Steinberg said.

Comments

what a collosal waste of time and energy. this whole presidential election process is a joke.

Victor DiMaio? Is this the best the Dems can do for filing a lawsuit?

This just makes a bad situation worse.

Rather than following the 30 day cooling off period, these clowns now want to stick it in Howard Dean's eye.

This ensures that the Dem vote on Jan 29th will not count.

Is that "taps" I hear playing?

this is great. the demogogues, er, democrats are demonstrating in graphic detail why they can't self govern internally. but for the record, howard dean will be back in Vermont fingering buttholes after the 08 elections.

The caucus idea has not merit. The Democratic nominee will be decided on Feb. 5. Anything held after that date would be meaningless.

The political parties do not set the primary dates in Florida. Florida is a pre-clearance state because of the voting rights act. The DNC effort to disenfrancise the state's voters should be seen through that prism. Howard Dean is turning the national party into a group of hypocrites. This will blow back on the eventual nominee of the party.

In any language, on every street, and in every home the position of the national party is stupid.

Howard Dean's wife refused to take his name. He deserves everything he gets.

Then you have Brown-Waite and Wasserman-Schultz who couldn't figure out which name to take.

They are true remnants of the 60's.

[Issywise]

Florida's legislature and Congress should pass laws that require that every primary vote be counted and be counted equally with the votes in other states.

Florida's legislature should pass a law announcing its intent not to certify and electoral college votes for any party that doesn't operate primaries on a one-man one-vote basis. This is the surest mechanism to enforce the voting rights of Florida citizens in national elections.

If the state is going to spend millions and mobilize thousands of officials and volunteers to conduct the primary polls, then political parties should be legally obligated to count the vote of those Floridians who take the time to perform the most sacred civil rite in a democracy.

It is obscene that a political party's national committee has voided hundreds of thousands or millions of vote by it own rules.

It is only democracy if the people decide.

As usual, the best thing the Democrats do… is eat their young and implode.

[Susan S]

Issywise,
The votes will be counted. The delegates will miss the party. That's all.

[C]

3:45 and 3:52, are other people's names really that important to you? I have no use for Dean either, but have better reasons than his wife's choice of names. I (and many others out there) find statements like yours offensive and demeaning.

[manaboutit]

Stop attacking Howard Dean! He did not make up the rules. The outgoing chair does that for the next cycle. So that would be "clinton machine man" Terry McAullife when he left the DNC to become the "clinton machine man" once again. hmmm...it should make sense to you now....how this all helps a certain candidate. Howard did NOT make the rules. Besides...why should FLA go first...or have a say at all, when our state is MARRED with election fraud? If we had a real vote...it would make sense...but we don't...so why would you want us to go first? The vote hackers will call it. We should forget the convention delegates...it's just a fundraiser anymore anyway....and NO ONE SHOULD LOSE THEIR RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR VOTE COUNTED. But do call Terry M...who is now chair of Hillary's camp...and ask HIM why he set these rules?

Susan S- You are correct, and I for one would rather have an early vote than have 210 people that i will never know go to an inconsequential party in Denver.

[J. Russell, Dade City, Fla]

"Florida Delegation Endorses Hillary"

That's the headline you'll be reading from Florida if Florida's Caucus Vote is allowed to be counted, rather than the Primary Vote of the Electorate in Florida come Spring 2008.

For those who would like to see the evidence that the "Money Party" is alive and well in Florida... WATCH THIS VIDEO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM1qEtNIgSM

Well known to Florida Democrats is the fact that the FDP Chairwoman has been marching about the state "pumping" the junior Senator from New York. I've heard her myself as well as the numerous reports from others from around the state for months now...

To sum it up... them was crocodile tears cried by the FDP Chair in D.C to the DNC. Kudos to Donna Brazile for her irrefutable points of reference made to the FDP Chair regarding the outcome of the DNC vote denying Florida its January 29th 2008 Primary date,(Seen on C-Span).

A purposefully strong, rather than a purposefully weak Democratic Party in Florida just might have provided a different and more acceptable Presidential Primary date in Florida if that were indeed the case.

People across the nation should be advised that the FlaDems are all set to "Endorse" Hillary in a "FIXED" caucus for the "Money Party" candidate, the favorite of Corporate America... come the Springtime without question.

Why not, since that was exactly the mechanism that gave Florida Democrats its current chair. I should know because... I was there!

While the significant "lapse in veracity" in this video by the Chairwoman is well known to FlaDems, the lack of required neutrality in the Presidential Primary by the party chair is as well.

This longstanding "defect" in the organizational character in the leadership of the Florida Democratic Party, on top of the more widely acknowledged foibles of the Florida election process, is further evidence of why Iowa and New Hampshire MUST continue to vote first in the Presidential Primary. John R.

I do not understand why all these Dean supporters are so wed to a two-state nomination process, when in fact, their guy may in fact have won if more states could have voted early.

As for the gentleman above, assuming he is running for Congress again, have fun explaining to your voters why you think their vote matters less than people in Iowa and New Hampshire.

John Russell=Still the Biggest Moron in Florida.

future congressman J. Russell everybody:
http://www.thegayblackjew.com/images/Tin_foil_hat.jpg

[Gene Smith]

Let's just concentrate on what is important here. Susan S has got it exactly right. It is far more important that Florida Dems voices be heard on January 29th, when it still matters, than sending a bunch of party insiders to what amounts to a big pary in Denver next summer.

How about we get that message out. Florida's vote on january 29th will have far more impact on the nomination than any number of delegates in Denver next summer. That is the message that Florida's Democratic voters should be hearing. And that's all that really matters.

[Fair And Inbalanced]

When do you start reporting that the Florida Republican Party Will Lose half their delegates on Tuesday?
or do they not count?

05:25 AM
Have we ever had a Rep. serve from a Pscy-co ward?

[Ron Mills]

John Russell, Get Back On Your Meds, You NUT

[J. Russell, Dade City, Fla]

Many thanks to those who continue to attack this messenger and who while doing so, continue to defend the indefensible. The fun has only just begun! So why abandon ship now...

As for myself I stand shoulder to shoulder w/ Donna Brazille who told Karen after her crocodile tear routine in D.C. just why she voted against Florida.

Ms. Brazille told Karen that two out of three of her less well known relatives in Florida were unable still to cast their vote in 2004. The one relative that was permitted to cast her vote, required three pieces of identification to do so.

In my investigation relative to my election contest, I have spoken with minority voters who were similarly treated at the polls in 2004.

Ms. Brazille furthermore told a "tearful" Karen Thurman that Florida was being punished because Florida did not do its job. This was all caught live on C-Span the day of the meeting.

This IS NOT BTW Howard Dean's doing... He inherited the rules under which he is operating from Previous DNC Chair Terry McAulliffe who is the Manager of who's campaign for President?

Susan Smith, Gene Smith et al are correct and I am in complete agreement with their statement.

Obviously the anonymous individuals as well as Mr. Mills did not read my submission, instead immediately attacking me personally, because of my very public fight to expose FDP CORRUPTION.

People like Mr. Mills quite clearly would rather continue to support the "status quo" that has placed Florida Democrats in this less than enviable position on the national scene.

To all... Seven years of direct personal involvement in Florida Democratic politics is plenty instructive in how things "work" in the FDP, many of its DEC's, including many who occupy positions of leadership at the county local level.

There are others who have wasted even more of their precious time than this Democrat, who are similarly "experienced" with the inner workings of the Democratic Party in Florida.

It is well past time to clean house, get the Republican operatives out of the FDP and bring back some competence, character and principle strategically and operationally to the FDP... If there ever was such. Thank you.

hey moron, the dnc rules were written last year. who was chairman then?
do you work for the republicans? cause you do good work making democrats look like psychos

[Franco]

is the link to the legal filing accurate?

[J. Russell, Dade City, Fla]

My anonymous friend... I refer you to the link provided which provides you access to the pdf of the DNC meeting held in 2000, chaired by Terry McAuliffe providing the rule change determining
the parameters that the Democratic Party lives by today for all other states excepting Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina.

The key provision aside from the relatively minor change of allowing the four traditional early states to select their delegates SEVEN days earlier than previous, is laid out in the single statement below restricting the actions of all other states with regard to the timing of their Democratic Party Presidential Primary.

This statement reads verbatim as follows: "In no instance may a state which scheduled delegate selection procedures on or between the first Tuesday in February and the second Tuesday in June 1984 move out of compliance with this rule."

The rule changes put in place regarding timing of Presidential primary elections put in place for 2004 are altered by seven days for all states exclusive of the traditional four. That's it.. and that was Terry's group that initiated that.

Gotta find some reason to attack the messenger because the rest of my discourse is entirely beyond dispute.

Thanks... Knowing the rules verbatim does nothing to correct the predicament... and yes Terry is one more sad example in our party who cannot and should not be trusted.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=most+recent+rules+adopted+by+the+DNC+for+determining+the+timing+of+the++delegate+selection+in+the+presidential+primary+&btnG=Search

[AwakeDemocrat]

The Democratic Party should sweep through Florida in 2008. But this lay down on the primary is silly. Why shouldn't Florida have the first primary? Didn't New Hampshire give a win to Pat Buchanan one year?

Oh, heck, why not just let the DNC push you around.

=>Florida Democrats are losing the 2008 fund raising race by a 3 to 1 margin, with Bush at 26%.

=>FDP's Chairperson gets $100,000 a year in return for work that, by fund raising standards, is totally inadequate.

The situation is serious and all the loyalists can do on this thread is attack John Russell with smears. Not to classy folks.

Here's what happens. Gore comes to Florida after he wins the Nobel Prize, announces, runs and wins. Then he wins everywhere else and fires the entire DNC and cleans house at the state level. Now that would be justice and Florida would be the king maker having the first primary.

09:19 PM
You do not have to be a loyalist, to think John Russell is nuts, you just have to be sane.

[J. Russell, Dade City, Fla]

Thanks for the complement anonymous. If I'm nuts then you and the folks in your corner are obtunded!

[Doug]

If the vote doesn't count in the primary,I can make damn sure the vote counts for Republicans in the elections in November
SCREAM ABOUT THAT CHANGE IN DIRECTION
FLORIDA WILL GO REPUBLICAN IF ANY VOTES ARE DISALLOWED