Tax plan is open to legal fight

Gov. Charlie Crist greets Christine Moore at her home in south Orlando on Tuesday as he pitches the tax-cut proposal that will be on the Jan. 29 ballot. [AP photo]

The Legislature's tax cut plan would deepen inequalities in Florida's tax system and could lead to a lawsuit by those who own nonhomestead property.

If that suit succeeded, the state might have two choices: give refunds to owners of businesses and second homes, or tell people who benefited under Save Our Homes that they have to pay that money back.

The state's own expert thinks the new plan is ripe for challenge. "I would think that's something a lawyer would find attractive," said Walter Hellerstein. He is an authority on tax law and was hired by the state to study what has become known as "portability," the politically popular plan to let owners of homestead property take their Save Our Homes tax break with them when they move.

Story here.

Comments

Hopefully it is the beginning of the end for SOH in its entirety

All homes should be taxed the same.

Those who live in Florida year round benefit from those who don't. Those who don't live year round pay anyway.

This is the only fair system, and it is the system that all other states have in place.

Just give a little exemption for primary home and make everything else the same.

Florida is creating its own IRS-type system. WHo is going to track all of this?

7:11 - I agree, but all 'primary homes' are not taxed the same in Florida.

The Senate tax bill is part of Sen Dan Webster's devious plan to get rid of Save Our Homes. He tried it in June in a more open manner, got rebuffed, and this time took the sneaky route. Now Crist is out on the road unknowingly doing Webster's dirty work for him by supporting the plan. This is the beginning of the end of Save Our Homes thanks to Republicans Webster and Crist.

I agree with 7:35 that increasing the vulnerability of SOH to Constitutional challenge was the unstated and hidden but intended consequence of the portability proposal. I disagree that the would be a bad thing. The inequity of SOH must be eliminated.

Unkowingly or not... finally, a move that will level the playing field for all homeowners... then we can get to the work of real property tax reform.

Yeah. That Tax and Budget Reform Commission needs to be able to work from a clean slate. SOH must be eliminated.

Where is the Garbage Pail Kid in the photo?

Has anyone done the math on consolidating ciy and county governments, thereby eliminating duplicative services?

Are those all FEMA employees with the cameras?

[Dave Zeien]

Under this proposal. I will be paying $3800.00 tax and my neighbor pays only $1300.00. He makes out for enernity. I get hosed for eternity. BTY, He purchased in 01 and I purchased in 03. Do the math there. 02 and 03 had the biggest increases by our counties. We need a rollback or start making people that use all these services start paying their fair share.

Another self-praised “non” accomplishment

Another day of staffers blogging on our dime

Another lie by “The People’s Mistake”

Another pandering photo op for Chuck

Come on Chuck, tell us it was really YOU who invented the internet!

Voters are going to be angry next November. Other than the $4 billion that the addt'l homestead costs, there are no CUTS in this bill!!! When people wake on Jan. 1, 2009, their taxes are going to be exactly the same--no more money in their pockets. And guess when they'll find that out--mid October. These politicians rely on short memory by voters--bad move on this one because the negative mail pieces will be coming at the same time as the tax bill. I don't care if they are a D or R, I would focus the entire campaign on the fact that the opponent is the incumbent. Just keep reminding people that nothing got done on insurance or taxes. These morons are rightfully in trouble. The people that voted against this thing at least stood up to stupid policy.

I can't wait to see how the GOP handles this! Now let's see them try to maintain the fiction that they are cutting taxes for the benefit of the homeowner, while trying to do away with the people's SOH!

One things for sure, if you ask the homeowners to give back their past benefits, you're going to be even more unpopular than your "less than 30%" homeboy in Washington.

Geller and Webster are the stupidist people in the legislature. Florida will be so much better off when Webster is finallly, finally, finally, finally, out of government. The fact that an air conditioning repairman is in charge of tax policy says something about how bad off Florida really is.

Please folks, if you find this issue confusing, just rely on common sense and past experience:

GOP = tax breaks for the wealthy.

That's the bottom line. That's what it's been all about since day one.

With all of the lawyers in the legislature and one as governor you'd think they could come up with tax plans that are less susceptible to legal challenges.

8:43 AM

This is not just a "how will the Republicans handle it" issue. Many Democrats also voted for the Tax Reform Plan. They are all in this together and all will take their lumps come election time.

The Governor has been "set up" by the Republican leadership who dislikes him (including Webster). Crist will fail on this one and Rubio will be there to clean up his mess, with support from several who were "staged" as opposing him.

Rubio's no differnt than the rest... a "Punk in Man Clothes" is all he is.

ZERO-FOR-TWO, CHUCK... ZERO-FOR-TWO!

IF THEY HAD… rolled back spending and taxes to 2002 levels, and expanded SOH to all property, both residential and commercial… this problem WOULD HAVE been solved!

Standard government minion SOP: Never enough time and money to do it right, always enough time and “our” money to do it over.

No problem - we can just re-visit the first time home buyers proposals during regular Session and place i0t on the November 08 ballot.

[curt]

It's difficult not to be sarcastic in describing just how betrayed I feel over this impotent display from the governor, the senate, and the legislature. I can't describe how angry I am at seeing my non-homestead tax burden increase almost 400% since 2002 and seeing the assessed value of my homestead property set at more than $200,000 higher than I could ever demand in today's market....not to mention another 25% increase in insurance premiums this year. I've given up on Florida like so many other small business owners I know. It may take a long time to liquidate holdings in this state's feeble economy, but the chance to help vote these liars out of office takes some of sting away.

Date: October 30, 2007

To: Chuck and the other monkey-sticks called the Legislature

From: Bob’s Political Consultant and Part-time Lawn Care Firm

Re: How to keep your job

Gentlemen, Ladies, and Its,

Americans buy Jordan’s because the commercial makes them believe they’ll play like Michael. We’re not creating policy here, folks, we’re selling dish soap and diet pills to mass of idiots you often refer to as “You Constituents”. The following is the pre-approved list of 10 responses regarding our latest con. When speaking to the media, please use them.

1. “It’s their fault”
2. “No, it’s their fault”
3. “The people spoke and we listened… kind of”
4. “It was tough, but we got it done… kind of”
5. “It’s something”
6. “It’s a good start”
7. “We’ll be back to finish the job”
8. “We’ll get ‘em next time”
9. “They dropped like… a feather in a wind storm”
10. “Know anyone who wants to buy a house?”

11. (When all else fails) Grab a single mom, slip her $50, and pose for a photo op. Reimbursement for the $50 can be submitted to Appropriations.

Good Luck, and remember… Rome wasn’t destroyed in a day!

I'm so sick of hearing people who purchased homes at inflated prices and who knew or absolutely should have known what their tax bill was going to be now crying that SOH is unfair. You are big boys and girls. You agreed to the price. You had the info to determine what your tax bill was going to be, and your lender told you what your escrow payments were going to be. After all this you signed your name and purchased. Now you want to whine that SOH is "inequitable" (big person's word for "unfair"). What do you tell your children when they say "it's not fair"? You tell them the world's not fair. Get over it.

9:36 - yes, I paid - not a inflated price - and knew what my taxes were. But that still doesn't change the fact that SOH creates inequity in the tax structure. It is funny you mention our children - it is they who I am taking my position that SOH is inquitable... mainly because when they want to purchase a home, they may not be able to because of people who have been subsidized by those paying a greater share of the costs for local needs.

If you enjoy SOH protection and have a neighbor in a similar sized house in your neighborhood - ask them if they mind that you pay less in taxes, although they don't receive any better services than you.

[Elaine, Holiday]

Folks, will we ever stop blaming each other, i.e., Dems. vs. Republicans, and start working for the people of Florida? The voters who put you where you are (and can also vote to eliminate you.) We need tax relief now! I'm sorry, but an estimated $240 per year property tax savings is not cutting it. My taxes doubled and now I'm supposed to cheer for the great total of a $240 cut? My question is, "After almost a year of debates and wrangling with the issues, this is the best you can come up with?" Shameful!!

Charlie, promises, promises (and yes, you did make promises) but now you turn a blind eye, Why? Tell me again, why you were a better candidate than Jim Davis?

[jack]

Term limits have spoken. There are no statesmen in Tallahassee, only small time politicians that cannot think past the next election. They should not worry b/c none of these "legislation by polls" pundits should be reelected. Sorry Charlie, but national leasdership starts at home and your stock has dropped like a rock. Strangle businesses and you strangle paychecks that pay taxes. DUHHHHHH!

9:36

just because the market value of the home soared this decade, dfoes not mean the tax bill should have as well...let the private market handle the price of a home. If someone is willing to pay $400k for a $250k home, so be it, but it doesn't mean government has to tax it like its a $400k home.

They'll have more than enough in their coffers by taxing it at the $250k value.

OK 9:36,,,lemme guess. You have a dead end job and you've lived in the same house for 10+ years. You pay three or four grand a year in local taxes, so the rest of us pay the other 80% of the tab to educate your kids. I understand why personal responsibility or equitable taxation are so offensive to you.....you depend on the tax revenue from your fellow Floridians. What do you tell your kids?....don't worry, Uncle Chuck will take care of it?

9:17 AM

Not as simple as you make it sound. First of all, I'm not voting for something in January on the hope and promise that the Legislature will enact an Amendment to correct its screw up on the potential loss of all my SOH. Are you nuts!!!

Photo op anyone??
Cameras?? Where should I stand so I look my best?
Did I tell how much I love Pruitt and my good, good, friend Steve Geller?

Where should I stand again? Is my fan available??

What a joke!

OK 9:36,,,lemme guess. You have a dead end job and you've lived in the same house for 10+ years. You pay three or four grand a year in local taxes, so the rest of us pay the other 80% of the tab to educate your kids. I understand why personal responsibility or equitable taxation are so offensive to you.....you depend on the tax revenue from your fellow Floridians. What do you tell your kids?....don't worry, Uncle Chuck will take care of it?

OK 9:53 lemme guess - you are an investor or flipper or living beyond your means and you want my taxes to go up so the Nanny State that you profess to despise can bail you out for your poor life decisions?

Your cumulative contribution to my community is much less so please take your kids and educate them elsewhere.

[terminator]

remember guys, Chuck has never owned a home nor any property in Florida for that matter.

why should he care about these things?

10:06

Job of my dreams, own my own business, building and I pay taxes on commercial property, kids all went to private school (I paid for your kids), 1 graduated from college now in graduate school, 2 in college, 1 in private grade school. I take personal responsibility for my decisions and I pay my taxes without whining

[Will]

terminator,

I would not be the least bit suprised if the legislature next spring put the "first time homebuyer" 25% assessment reduction on the ballot for november 2008.

That would make the portability much more constitutional.

8:45

Your continual bashing of Webster is becoming as refreshing as post nasal drip. The "A/C repairman" as you called him is an electrical engineer. I doubt whether the combined IQ of you and 9 of your smartest friends would come close to his, even if one of them was Joe Biden.

I really don't understand all the righteous indignation from you SOH junkies. How can you project all that moral superiority at the same time that you support your neighbor paying double (or half) of what you pay?

10:23 Good for you! You didn't pay for my kids because you obviously just moved to your new home; unless you are just generously whining about the inequality of your neighbors taxes being higher than your own. If your life is so good, consider the taxes you have to pay for upgrading your home as an investment in your new community.

10:30 AM

I repeat, not as simple as you make it sound. First of all, I'm not voting for something in January on the hope and promise that the Legislature will enact an Amendment to correct its screw up on the potential loss of all my SOH. Are you nuts!!!

10:45

The fundamental premise of SOH was to "lock in" the economic context of the primary homeowner at the time the purchase occurs with the intention of insuring that the homeowner has the best chance possible of maintaing ownership over the long term, i.e, would never get taxed out of their home ownership. That is why SOH is CPI or 3% whichever is LESS. SOH is entirely consistent with and reinforces Florida's long held public policy of protecting and encouraging primary home ownership. Under this premise, the buyer who chose to buy at 400K is presumed to have determined he/she had the econimic wherewithall at the time to purchase that home, tax bill and insurance included. The economic context of the transaction is now locked in as of the purchase date. The protection intended by the measure is provided to the buyer, just as it was to the buyer next door who purchased 10 years ago. The tax bill is different, but the purpose of the constitutional protection is served equally to both owners. It's not indignation, it is the reality of why the constitutional measure was adopted in the first place. That is why it will pass constitutional muster, because there is clearly a rational basis underlying the constitutional safeguard. Get over it.

I think they're doing a great job. If they keep us at each others' throats over who pays what, they'll never have to answer any questions about how they spend, spend, spend

You are right, Crist has never owned a home. He rents the condo he lives in. Interestingly, it was revealed during the campaign that the owner of that condo had it homesteaded notwithstanding Crist was living there as a tenant. That's fraud. Anyone think that Crist knew? Did his rent go up after the homestead exemption and SOH were removed? Someone should ask him.

[Wiseguy]

I'm watching and reading. All you people do is bash each other. The fact is this is, was, always will be a "Tallahasse Special". It took 2 special sessions, alot of sword waving and chest pounding. What did we get? A large pile of dog doo. I am homesteaded and do not want to lose my cap. But I want it to be fair for all, this thing is smoke and mirrors. When they say its a start a start of what? Making it more unequal! My vote will be a big NO.

what a load of crap 11:06!
Hypocrisy is not a measure of the number or size of words you can spew. At least admit it if you're benefitting and you don't care if others aren't.

[matts47]

"But we're on offense here, we're not on defense." What an idiot! I'm a Republican ashamed that I voted for Charlie Crist. The man has concept of policy or law. He only knows shameless pandering. That's fine till things go to hell becuase your policies are retarded. Then, no amount of political spin will save you.

11:06

I think you missed the point. SOH is in jeopardy because the new amendment's portability provision does not provide "equal protection" to new homeowners. Are you willing to gamble your current SOH protection on voting Yes to the Amendment? That could happen.

[Joe Sixpack]

THIS IS A GINORMOUS BREAK FOR FLORIDIANS!