Times poll: Dems want primary results to count

Howard Dean and Barack Obama may insist Florida’s Democratic presidential primary was meaningless, but a new poll shows Florida Democrats aren’t buying it, and one in four may not back their party's nominee in November if Florida winds up with no voice in the nomination.

Not only do Florida Democrats say that the Democratic presidential contenders’ boycott of their primary had little effect, but an overwhelming plurality want the officially meaningless results to count, a new St. Petersburg Times/Bay News 9 poll finds.

A record 1.75-million Florida Democrats voted in the Jan. 29 primary, which Hillary Rodham Clinton won by 17 percentage points, but as punishment for holding the primary earlier than allowed by the national party, no delegates were at stake. Now, as a nomination stalemate looms, the candidates and state and national party leaders are struggling to figure out how and if America’s biggest swing state can have a voice in the Democratic nomination.

"If there’s one thing that this survey says is you have to acknowledge the Jan. 29 primary on some level," said pollster Tom Eldon. "You really can’t say the Florida primary was a non-event to voters. It was a non-event to Howard Dean according to the rules of the DNC.”

Twice as many Clinton supporters -- 56 percent -- want the Florida primary to count as do Obama supporters -- 27 percent. Still, even among Obama supporters, the idea of counting that primary is slightly more popular than holding a new election or dividing Florida’s delegates evenly between the two candidates.

“We’ve been not counted so often and especially in this state that has felt for so many years that our vote doesn’t count, to not count our votes again would be so detrimental -- especially for our youth," said Tallahassee resident Molly Gosline, 45, executive director of a nonprofit group and a Clinton supporter.

But Carly Loiseau, a 29-year-old nurse and Obama supporter in Wesley Chapel, didn’t bother voting in January because she knew Florida had no delegates and said it would be unfair to count the election now.
"I blame the state of Florida, the Democratic party. They knew the rules and they could have followed the rules like the rest of the country, but they chose not to," said Loiseau, a nurse.
Other key findings in the poll:

• Obama has gained strength in Florida, and today lags Clinton among Florida Democrats 46 percent to 37 percent, with Clinton leading by 33 percentage points among white Democrats and 20 points among Hispanics. Obama leads among African-Americans, 74 percent to 12 percent.

• Florida Democrats point the finger of blame for the primary debacle in several directions: 28 percent blame Republican leaders in the Legislature, 25 percent blame Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, and 20 percent blame the Florida Democratic party.

• More than three out of four Florida Democrats say it’s “very important” that Florida’s delegates count toward the nomination, and one in four said they would be less likely to support the ultimate Democratic nominee if Florida’s delegates don’t count.

• The state party’s decision to scrap a do-over primary by mail looks wise with fewer than 1 in 10 Democrats saying they considered that the best way to resolve the issue and only one in four saying they would trust a mail-in election to show the will of the people.

The telephone survey of 600 registered Democrats and frequent Florida voters was conducted March 15-17 for the St. Petersburg Times, Bay News 9 and the Miami Herald. The poll was done by Schroth, Eldon & Associates, whose clients primarily are Democrats. The margin of error was plus or minus 4 percentage points.

The poll suggests most Florida Democrats viewed the Jan. 29 primary as a legitimate election.
For instance, only 15 percent of those surveyed said their main interest in voting was the Amendment 1 tax reform initiative, while 43 percent said the Democratic primary was the big draw and 40 percent said both were equally important to them. Likewise, 56 percent of those surveyed said the lack of Florida campaigning by the major candidates had "no effect at all" and 16 percent said it had a "major effect" on their choices.

---Adam Smith

Comments

There is no way the Rep. Castor, Rep. Wexler and other Obama supporters will let the people of Florida help decide the Democratic nominee.

The Obama campaign just shut down the Michigan re-vote when it became clear that Sen. Obama was going to lose there as well.

[Clifford]

The nurse that didn't vote, shame on her. Always vote, regardless of what you assume will be the outcome. Don't punish the voters that turned out to vote in this election, we could have stayed home and not voted but we let our voices be heard. Shame on all of you that didn't vote...lazy, lazy, lazy, excuses, excuses! Accept some responsibility and stopped blaming the system for your failure to vote!

[al]

clifford, who do youthink you are?? Our parent admonishing their child.?? Grow up and mind your own business.

[Rocky]

Rules should not be changed after the fact. The "leaders" knew the consequences for moving the primary - blame your democratic leaders in the state. MI and FL dem leaders should be fired.

Really Rocky?? You mean you would replace a DEM with a Republican, given they way they are responsible for trashing our state and selling our nation to the greedy corporations? All because of this delegate thing? You don't sound much like a Democrat at all, Rocky.

Problem Solved!

4:19 is right. I am an Obama supporter but I voted and it should count. There were other important amendments and local races on the ballot. The people that didnt vote are looking for an excuse. People should ALWAYS vote. Anyone that stays up on politics knew they (Media and politicos) were going to look toward Florida to see who the winner is!

[Mike]

I personally know a good amount of people that didn't vote because they were told it wouldn't hold any weight. That isn't to say shame on them or hold those who did in higher light, just stating a fact. They deemed it an "exercise in futility" and rightfully so.

[Zeni Browncroft]

I will be outraged if my vote doesn't count. I will join a class action law suit against the Florida legislature for allowing this to happen.

The Problem: DNC has terrible rules

The Mistake: Florida broke them, knowing the penalties.

The Solution: TOO DAMN BAD! Maybe you should have addressed the Problem before you made the Mistake!

But don't go and cry and want to change the rules after the game has been played.

"There's no crying in baseball!" ~Jimmy Dugan, Manager of the Rockford Peaches, 1942

[Kris]

I know many people that did not vote in the primary election. They where told by the Dem. party that their vote would not count and they didn't think amendment one affected them since they rented their home. Of course property taxes have an effect on renters as well but that is NOT how the campaign was approached and not what drew out voters.

So you you have a primary vote with landowners potentially holding more weight that the rest of the population. We were told our votes wouldn't count. Some of us, including myself, made the choice to vote anyways--I wanted my voice heard on at least a symbolic level.

I wonder how discouraging the vote of non-landowning citizens would go over in either the Clinton's or Obama's camp. That is basically what was done. How can we even contemplate using those votes? Neither camp wanted our votes before, they made their bed and should have to lie in it.

[rocky]

That is the problem with society. Everyone always wants exceptions to the rules, the rules don't apply to us, what rules??
And wake up - Republicans and Democrats are both for big business - who do you think pays their way. Neither party cares for the little guy. Vote for the best candidate, period.

[Hammer]

"The telephone survey of 600 registered Democrats and frequent Florida voters was conducted..."

FOLLOWED BY...

"But Carly Loiseau, a 29-year-old nurse and Obama supporter in Wesley Chapel, didn’t bother voting in January..."

That should tell you all you need to know as to the integrity of this poll… it’s as meaningless as the Primary itself and is as believable as the fools who caused this mess to begin with (Chuck and the waste of carbon called the Legislature).

It shouldn't count because Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Biden, Richardson, Kucinich and the DNC agreed it wouldn't count. Run a race honestly, where the decks aren't stacked for the person with the highest name ID, and then count the delegates. Doing otherwise is known as cheating AND disfranchisement.

[karma]

Actually,
It was a Republican controlled legislature and executive branch within the state of Florida that voted and changed the primary date, knowing that the DNC would strip the Florida Democratic Party of its delegates. If anyone is to blame, its the DNC and the state Repub's, not state Democrats.

Additionally, knowing that the state dem party would not have delegates being counted, many people who may have taken the time to vote, did not. The same people who, like it or not, are typically called "disenfranchised" by the process -- those who rely on public transportation to get to the polls, or who are unable to take time from work (and if they don't own their home, what's the point of voting on the r.e. tax issue?)

Don't count the delegates. The primary was a sham. Again, Florida is just a tool for Carl Rove.

[rick]

I was an early Richardson and Obama supporter but the more I look at Obama the less I like .He’s just telling us what we want to hear ...100% politician; I have now changed my view on him, I cant have Richardson so I will go for Hillary as Obama’s camp will try like mad to block the Michigan and Florida votes if the Dems national committee will let them count as he lost them both. Obama is looking more like G.W Bush with his bulling and dreaming...Let them count the votes in both primary’s this time with a condition they change for next time around .Haven’t we had enough of our Florida votes not counting.

[Marcel]

Anyone who made a donation to the Democratic National Party MUST call and request they return your money immediately! If that happens I'll bet the DNC will see Florida in a different light. I called this morning and after an hour and a half (literally) they are sending my $100 dontaion back to me. They cannot legally keep the money if your request it be returned.

Karma,
What other conspiracey theories do you have? I guess that the fact that the Dems in the legilature voted for the bill means nothing to you. Obviously, everything is everyone else's fault.
I am tired of this. When I heard about the bill, I contacted as many legislators as I could to let them know I did not like a portion of it.
Quit whining, and start paying attention.

Sorry, But those who didn't vote should have. The DNC Sanction Rules state that the Credentials Committee could (after all the other states primaries, were held) vote to seat all of the delegates for FL & MI.

I knew that, the candidates knew that and the FDP knew that and made statements that all Democrats should go to the polls on Jan. 29th and that they would do all they could to resolve this issue at a later date.

Shame on those "very few" Dems that didn't vote and NOW want to disenfranchise the ones that did vote.

COUNT OUR 1.7 MILLION DEMOCRATIC VOTES FROM JAN. 29TH!

No matter how many points are scored, pre-season games don't count and neither should beauty-contest elections where voters are told going in that their votes won't count.

5:31

if that were the case, the New England Patriots would have actually enetered the Super Bowl at 19-1, losing to my Tampa Bay Buccaneers on August 8th.

[Frank]

They(The State Party)made our choice and broke the rules. Now Florida (Becuase of them)should not be counted!
It's time for us to find new State Leaders....

[Frank]

They(The State Party)made our choice and broke the rules. Now Florida (Becuase of them)should not be counted!
It's time for us to find new State Leaders....

[Justthinking]

The DNC DID NOT Punish New Hampshire for violating the rules and changing its election date so the DNC should NOT be punishing FL or MI! No selective enforcement! FL votes should be counted as done on election day! Obama is NOT truly for the people or change if he seeks to disenfranchise a whole state just because he thinks it will hurt his chances... He should be upholding the PRINCIPLE that ALL votes count!

[tiredofit]

I do not know about Florida voters, but if the Dems nominate Obama without allowing Michigan to re-vote I will definately NOT vote for Obama. I do not think making someone Commander-In-Chief to our troops that has stood by someone that said GD America is showing much respect for the sacrifices our troops have made.

[Melanie]

1.7 million people must count otherwise you will not have them vote and the Democrats who support Obama are a joke. Do you actually think this hater with no experience can win against McCAin.

The bosses are worried a woman knows what she is doing and they are more afraid of a smart women than an inexperienced racist antisemetic package politician.

Grow up

[Omega83]

Melanie,

If that "woman actually "knew what she was doing", she wouldn't have spouted this garbage today:

Clinton: Rate cuts not enough

Asked about reports that the Fed could cut rates today to as low as 2 percent, Clinton said rate cuts aren't enough and that the government needs to intervene more actively in the housing market, freezing interest rates on subprime mortgages, among other actions.

"I do not believe that cutting interest rates to 1 percent… is going to be enough," Clinton said. "If we don’t deal with the home foreclosure crisis, the economy will not recover — I don’t know how I can say that more plainly."

Hillary is scary, and I will do everything I can to make sure she never sniffs the White House.

[Robert]

First, the original idea was to strip Florida of only HALF it's delegation, and that is what the DNC should do. We broke the rules, so we must pay the consequences. That said, the record 1.7 million Florida Democrats who took the time to vote should have their voices heard. He is what I believe is the least expensive, quickest, fairest (best as can be expected under the circumstances), and least intrusive plan to make it happen.

1) As mentioned above, only seat HALF the delegation. Better half than none at all.

2) Use the results from the January 29 primary to determine how many delegates each congressional district is entitled to.

3) That means refiguring the formula to determine which candidate receives how many delegates in each CD. The biggest change: Edwards would likely lose the delegates he won due to the higher threshold required.

4) The FDP would have to schedule new congressional district caucuses to elect delegates based on the revised numbers.

Will everyone be happy? Probably not. But it's a heck of a lot better than sending no delegation at all. And besides, we need to concentrate more on coming together once the primaries and convention is over to support whichever candidate will represent our party in November. Either Obama or Clinton would be better in the White House than McCain.

[ANON]

It's a good thing that I am a 55-year-old American female w/NO heart problems!! That includes high-cholesterol. I am really angry over the blame being put on Howard Dean & the DNC. They followed the Democratic Primary Party Rules. Florida Democrats were scheduled to vote the 1st week of March 2008. Suddenly, it changed near the end of last year. Why? Simple. Charlie Crist/Republicans + their Democratic allies. Why not? Rule of Law?? What's THAT been in the last 8 years???????????!!!!!

[Stephen]

REALLY!?!?!?!?!?!
I use to live in Florida, and let me just say, HOW BOUT NO!
Florida knew the rules about when you could hold the primary, you knew the consequences, and YET still disobeyed them, so NO you don't get the delegates, and maybe this will send the Florida Dems a message about listining, and following the rules! DEAL WITH IT.
Sorry Voters, you party did this to you.

[Al]

Seattle held caucuses where the delegates were given. Obama won handily, but the following week we had a primary. Technically, it "didn't count" but almost 46% of the population voted (less than 2% caucused) and the outcome was pretty much 50-50 for the two candidates. So people vote to have their voices heard, whether or not it counts in delegates, it counts, hopefully, when superdelegates are deciding who will win in the general election--seeing where the support lies. I'm sure that folks in MI and FL also voted to be heard. If the delegates won't be seated, at least the numbers should MATTER!!

[christian]

Democrats weren't going to win Florida anyway. When you have Republican Lawmakers creating this current mess, what do you think they are going to do when it is time to vote?

[mike]

These votes count. One way or another this is going to have an impact on the national election. Florida is a swing state and alienating the voters here is not wise. Us independents will be watching. We outnumber Dems and Repubs combined!

[Jaime]

Votes should count. The party appears as if they work for Obama rather than care about the voters at all? They will surely lose a national election if this the game they are playing. Its time to really open eyes and stop playing favorites and truly assess negatives and positives. It may end up time to draft Al Gore.

[beth]

1. Dean is an idiot. Anyone else would have handled this better.
2. Why have Super delegates if all they are going to do is vote for what the people have already voted. If they are mindless, get rid of them.
3. Please post when Castor runs in the primary so we can vote her out.
4. If Obama beats Clinton, McCain will get our vote.

[gamesmanship]

it's a matter of money- it's extremely expensive to revote. Truth be told, Obama would only benefit from Revotes in Michigan and Florida- Hillary would lose some ground in the total popular vote even if she still carried those states.

Bottom line, Florida republicans stuck it to the Florida DNC by connecting the early vote to a bill mandating voter receipts (in order to prevent a fiasco as in 2000). Seems like it's working.

[Krissy]

How can you say that the Florida primary didn't mean anything to Obama?? He was going by party rules, something that ALL democrat nominees pledged to do.

This is a result of the failure of Florida democratic leadership, not Obama. No matter how badly Hillary's camp would like to suggest that it is, it simply is not factual.

[roncraw]

I'm 74 and voted all my life and every vote to my knowledge counted. If my vote isn't counted this time,it will be the last time I vote.I own my home and did not cast a vote for or against the amendment. And most Fla. voters know Obama ran tv ads prior to the primary.

[Krissy]

WHY ARE PEOPLE BLAMING OBAMA???

He didn't make the rules. He was one of many that took the same pledge: Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Biden, Richardson, and Kucinich.

Are you that persuaded by unfactual information that you actually think this should be blamed on Obama?

[roncraw]

I'm 74 and voted all my life and every vote to my knowledge counted. If my vote isn't counted this time,it will be the last time I vote.I own my home and did not cast a vote for or against the amendment. And most Fla. voters know Obama ran tv ads prior to the primary.

[Feesh]

Think about it people...Guam and Puerto Rico get a vote, but you don't!

This Dem race is more entertaining than a circus..wait..it is one!

[Steve Mangion]

But the democrats are not going to carry Florida, especially with a Republican Governor.
Save the money for the general election and other states that the D's can carry.
PI Steve

[larry]

The Florida Democratic establishment has no one to blame but themselves. You all enabled the GOP legislature to bend you over and now you want the rest of us to say..ahhhh thats ok we will let you pass because you are so very very special..all because you cannot run an election in 2000 and now this. Florida you all want to bolt for McCain...good luck.

[cooday]

Democrats love Florida! We need you!
U2 - Stand By Me ft. Bruce Springsteen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTiFKnLifCU
Vote Obama!

[happytoes]

The democrats knew GOING IN - their vote would NOT count. Why is it up to the Florida taxpayer to foot the bill AGAIN. Doesn't count means DOES NOT COUNT

[Yotinzepol]

The DNC should rule on the side of the people. It shouldn't even take into account the 2 campaigns. Obama or Hillary is not any bigger than the 1.7 million people who voted. The hell with either of them if counting the votes is to his/her disfavor. There's a loser in any contest, right?
And you don't want those who participate in our democracy and exercise their right to vote be the loser. The DNC should be big enough to admit and correct its mistake.
A rule to disenfranchise a block of voters is inherently bad. And bad rules are meant to be broken and that's how you know it's bad because enforcing it is really, really, really BAD.

[Sarasotan]

In the final analysis, what is important is the will of the voters who turned out in record numbers, not who is to blame for this idiocy nor what the candidates agreed to before the Jan 29 election?

10:19

unfortunately the rule was the rule after the fact - and changing it now is just as unfair.

[Mary]

please join our forum and discussions we would love your input from FL.

we have a petition too
at
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/hillaryforpresident/

[JM]

Why is it that the Dems in Florida can never get an election right.They knew what the rules were but yet they insisted on breaking them.Now they have to live with it PERIOD!!!End of story.It seems like every election the Dems have a problem if things don't go their way.From hanging chads to it was the machines fault and no paper trail so we need new machines.All this at taxpayer expense.When does it stop.They can blame the Rep. or whoever nut the bottom line is they screwed up.I am sick of hearing it and the courts should throw out these lawsuits.

[Bill Nichols]

"But the democrats are not going to carry Florida, especially with a Republican Governor.
"Save the money for the general election and other states that the D's can carry."

Don't necessarily bet on it; while "90% of all politics is local," believe someone who's been an observer of FL politics since the 50's. November is by no means a lock for the GOP. While the DNC pulled a *real* el dumbo by punishing their own party for the actions of the GOP-controlled legislature & state house, there is a lot, & I do mean a LOT of very bad anti-GOP blood in FL. Absent another set of Machivellian antics by the GOP machine, look for a *very* engaged Democratic electorate in the Sunshine State tis fall.

[Bill Nichols]

Per JM : "Why is it that the Dems in Florida can never get an election right.They knew what the rules were but yet they insisted on breaking them.Now they have to live with it PERIOD!!"

Oh, you funny. FL Democrats didn't have a say in whether or not the primary date rules were broken. The GOP controls both houses of the state legislature *&* the governor's mansion. They are the ones who changed the date of the state's primary. You just made yourself look like a Compleat Goof. [chuckle]

[Steven]

I took US Government at St. Petersburg College last summer. I also bought a box of video tapes a Goodwill that came from The History Channel called Our Founding Fathers. What's happening to us today spits on the graves of all these men and all those who died since then to protect democracy. If this happened in Iraq, do you think it would stand? No, then why should we allow it to happen in the US. We cannot sit back without a fight. I call for a March from Key West to Washington DC in protest.

[Joseph]

Newsflash to all those blaming Republicans for the primary date change. The bill to change the primary was introduced by a DEMOCRAT and only ONE Democrat voted against it! The fact that Republicans control the congress does not change these FACTS.

The changes introduced by Dean were done to create a meaningful primary, but in an attempt to end the election early on name recognition Florida moved it's primary date up to benefit Hillary Clinton. THAT is why they voted early and that is why she is now advocating for the vote to count as it stands.

I'm sorry, I don't vote for cheaters.

[Tom Baehner]

There are only two options here. 1. You have a do over primary or 2. You keep the Jan. 29 vote. You definitely don't split the vote in half or cancel all the votes. This is what America is really all about counting votes. If we don't count the votes then this isn't America anymore.

[InsultComicDog]

I think all Bucs preseason wins should count. Not the losses, just the wins.

Dear Bill Nichols,
One more time. The bill was introduced by a DEMOCRAT. Every Democrat but 1 voted for it. 2 Republicans voted against it.
And if you could spell complete (compleat is your spelling), correctly, you might be more believable, but I doubt it---after all you are still blaming everyone but the DNC who could have just denied half of the delegates rather than all of them.
Beth,
Like most, you obviously do not understand super delegates, (i.e. politicos). They do not have to vote the way the people did. In fact, they can negate the popular vote and pledged delegates. They were put into place because the Democrat leadership thinking was/is that the voters did not know what was best for the party. Obviously, the party doesn't know what they are doing, so how can we expect Dems to lead the country?

[Frank Booth]

Anyone who says that Democratic members of the Florida legislature voted for the change in the primary is misleading you at best. That bill was rolled into a much larger package. What matters is that Democrats offered an amendment that would have changed the date to February but it was soundly defeated by Republicans. Concern trolls are so obvious.

Classic Times report: a meaningless poll that in which respondents say a previous meaningless poll has meaning.

[Andrew]

If this was the democratic process Iraq wanted to use, can you imagine the uproar from the USA?? Yes, Florida and Michigan "broke the rules," but the rules should have never given an unfair advantage to four other states EVERY ELECTION.

[Rick]

He baptised his children. He blessed his home before he moved in. He married him and his wife who publicly said "for the the first time in my life I am proud of America."

Election over.

For the second time in 8 years democrats were handed an election on a silver platter and still found a way to screw it up.

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton...in the last 30 years that's the only time dems have held the white house.

It's time for this country to find a new second party.

[mark]

So how many voters turned out in Iowa? This is a state that sold Geo on going ethanol and raising the cost of all food sources. A bushel of corn has gone from $2 to $5.50 driving up the price of all food. Their legislature states that the rest of us “pay $4 for a gallon of water, so why not raise the price of corn”.
Not only are we all seeing the effects in the grocery store but the cost of charitable aid has gone up 50% for the same food to feed the hungry in the States and abroad.
Can someone explain why Florida isn’t the first state along with California and New York?

[Tom Baehner]

There are only two options here. 1. You have a do over primary or 2. You keep the Jan. 29 vote. You definitely don't split the vote in half or cancel all the votes. This is what America is really all about counting votes. If we don't count the votes then this isn't America anymore.

Never seen so many posts on one of these blogs where people actually put their names - looks like the campaigns are sending people to post...

SPT - just turn this one off...

[D. Kent]

Given the fact that so many intelligent, well-informed Obama supporters failed to vote, recognizing that it was only a "beauty contest", why not have a mini-primary? Florida can open the polls for only those Democrats who recognized the reality, that their votes would not count, and let them vote now and have their votes added to the Clinton tally. I wonder how loud she and her supporters would be screaming their mantra "every vote should count", if this were the final decision. No, she is not the least bit interested in the rights of voters, unless it provides her with an advantage!

[Jaqueline]

Count my vote.

Count my moms vote.

Count my dads vote.

Count my sisters vote.

COUNT OUR VOTES FL AND DEAN.

GROW UP AND LISTEN TO FLORIDIANS.

[Jaqueline]

roncraw:

Your right Obama did run tv ads prior to the primary. Everyone in my family saw it. And we still thought he wasn't right for the job. Obama broke the DNC rules and nothing has happened to him. What the?? And our votes must count!

Count our votes!! Or we will boycott the DEM nominee in November. Or should I say we will boycott Obama. From what I hear Obama is the one that is stopping the election re-do from happening here. He knows he would lose in a landslide so, he is trying to fix the election by not allowing our voices to be heard.

Shame on Obama! And the DNC needs to wake up before a republican is sitting in the WH again.

Everyone that agrees please call Howard Dean in DC.

The Mailing Address:
Democratic National Committee
430 S. Capitol St. SE
Washington, DC 20003

Main Phone Number for Dean:
202-863-8000

And anyone that would like to tell the DNC no more contributions will be coming from you until your vote is counted please call
1-877-336-7200

Let the DNC know they can't take our money then treat us like we are not part of America.

Guam and Puerto Rico will be counted but not Florida and Michigan?? What?? That is anti-American. Everyone should count.

Please let your voices be heard!
Everyone counts. Who is Dean and Obama to tell us we don't!

[Pete Bogs]

you're darn right we want our votes to count... if they don't, why be a member of the party? everyone can vote in the general election... count my vote or I am leaving the party...

[RJ]

They should just split the vote 50-50.

[larry]

Threats to leave the party....great, what a democrat dude! Floridia democrats think they are republicans. DNC limits your primary options, hey, we are from Florida..we are truly special we can do what we damn well please...HOW DARE the rest of the state parties play by the rules and expect us too. Hell we are Florida. And you threat to leave the party? ha ha ha ha. See ya. I am one democrat that appreciates you confirming what we have thought about you folks for a while now. Vote for McCain, you deserve him and the brother of the idiot who has occupied the White House for 8 years that you elected govenor...twice. I am for Hillary and disagree with her that you folks need a hall pass.

So what about Kathy Castor's future?

She's one of those anti-democratic "super"....whatevers. At a time when Obama switch from saying, "Your vote won't count" to "OK, we'll allow your vote but we'll decide how you voted," the Congresswoman showed in which direction her interests lay by turning her back on her shunned and disenfranchised neighbors to endorse a man who is OK with Floridians not counting or being told how they voted by candidates and party officials.

Maybe, her district is drawn so securely Democratic that she doesn't think she need fear voters walking away from her in the general? Maybe, she's sure no credible Democrat will stand against her in the primary on the issue of, "At least I didn't endorse those who stripped you of your vote."

Do these Democratic committee members, candidates and "super" somethings get away scott free after voiding millions of our votes?

If Florida's Democratic elected leaders had acted like they believed in democracy then maybe the party would have backed down. Instead, our leaders endorsed the very self-interested candidates who saw our disenfranchisement as "just the rules."

We can do better folks.

[Redman]

My wife an Obama supporter and I an Edwards supporter have been consistent quarterly donors to the DNC. That has changed this year due to anger building by what we feel is the bossism displayed by Chairman Dean. This has lately been compounded by the underhanded tactics used in the Obama campaign to disenfranchise 10% of the nations electorate in Florida and Michigan. We voted in Florida in a fair primary where all the candidates were treated equally. All the Democratic candidates were listed on the ballot and we had an enthusiastic and stupendous record turnout of Democratic voters in Florida. By threatening to not seat our Florida delegates it has already cost the National Democratic Party money as I can personally attest. Not taking the chance to revote in Florida in a statewide Democratic primary to settle once and for all who deserves our delegates and ultimate support in November is a colossal mistake by the national Democrats. So far it is just our money that is staying home. If the Democratic Party refuses to seat our delegates it can not truthfully claim to be a “democratic party”. I that happens I will skip the presidential race in 2008.

[goof Ticket]

Why is the Repub;ican Governor the biggest cheerleader for this revote....but will not spend one penny, or offer the money to fix his state; own totally screwed up election system.

Is Christ a Democrat?
No, so in the words of Fox News..."Shut up! Cut his mic."

If Florida wants a redo, they are going to have to pay for it themselves.
They couldn't do a redo in 2000, when it was really needed.
I say too bad, and learn how WIsconsin does elections, you might want to adopt the system.
It works.

[Buzzard]

I'm all for a revote if we get to revote the republican primary also.

We all want a lot of things, but we can't have them, can we? A Democrat shouldn't have introduced the bill moving the election to the 29th and Democrats shouldn't have voted almost unanimously to support it. So, don't be complaining now!

Operation Chaos is going just as planned.

Love,
Rush

[marya]

Why have rules if you aren't going to follow through and enforce them. FL and MI were warned of the consequences of their actions. If the Dems back down now and count the votes, what is going to happen in 2012 when other states decide to push forward their primaries, and break the rules 'cause their are no consequences for doing so? The DNC has to hold it's ground and enforce the rules or havoc will reign.

Rationalize all you want. Blame whomever you chose.

If a real resolution isn't reached - McCain will win Florida in November.

This is not Clinton v. Obama - this is the Democratic Nominee v. McCain.

Even in an election year where the generic Democratic candidate should be winning in a landslide over the Rep nominee, you can trust the Dems to screw it up. Thank you Howie Dean!

I am sick of Obama trying to disenfranchise FL. He showed up to collect money then dissed the almost 2 million dems who voted. He was also the only dem who actually ran campaign ads. He still lost.
Seat our delegates as elected. To those of you who claim you didn't vote because "they said it wouldn't count", shame on you--but then again, given the record breaking turnout of those of us who DID vote, I question whether you ever vote at all.

oh, please, spare me the whine 8:30.

It's your party that allows this ridiculous super delegate system in the first place. What, the people can't be trusted to make their own decisions?

And last I checked, the people so far want Barack Obama. It's Hillary who is desperate to influence the super delegates and break the Florida rules SHE ALREADY AGREED TO!

Hillary made a gamble and she's lost -simple as that.

She assumed Florida was in the bag long ago, BUT that her nominaiton was too.

Little did she think she'd need Florida after the fact.

The arrogance and hubris of the Clinton's is appalling. And you all want to send them back to the White House?!

I'd rather have Billary in the White House than a radical black nationalist that allows his children to be taught the goverment created AIDS to kill black people.

[Buzzard]

...said 9:53 as he dons his robe.

What does Sen. Obama and his Congressional supporters (castor & Wexler) think so little of Florida.

[Sally]

Seems to be a lot of dinos and Republicans on this thread. Because no proud Florida Democrat wants rules broken and the rules changed mid-game.

We've had enough of that for the last seven years. Or haven't you been paying attention.

And to those who blame Obama ... ask Hillary why she signed the letter of "doesn't count" too.

For those who blame Dean - I guess winning Hassert's seat doesn't mean a thing to you either. The rules were place BEFORE Dean took leadership - and if he changes one rule, he must then change a lot more of the rules - and that'd have your panties in a wad too.

A Democratic legislator, Jeremy Ring (D) CO SPONSORED this bill - FL Senate Bill 1010 which went along with FL House bill 537 introduced by David Riveria (R)

do your homework folks

[PA Voter]

One thing that the poll does not take into consideration is the potential boycott that could occur in other states empathizing with Florida's (and possibly Michigan's) plight. The Dems could lose in other "swing states" if they don't handle this correctly.

Also, it appears other "first voting states" broke rules yet their votes are being counted. THE DNC NEEDS TO WAKE UP AND GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER!

[Curtis]

The voters of Florida and Michigan should be heard and the delegates from Florida and Michigan should count!!!

[Tahler]

In Florida, all presidential candidates were on the primary ballot and all followed the rules (except for Sen. Obama who broke the rules by running television ads in violation of his pledge to the early states and to the other presidential candidates). In Michigan, Sen. Obama voluntarily withdrew his name from the primary ballot to curry favor with Iowa. He was under no obligation to do so. However, his supporters organized a substantial vote for 'uncommitted' on the ballot, thus he is represented in the delegation. Hillary Clinton obeyed all the rules in Florida and Michigan and came out ahead. She had no intrinsic advantage over her opponents other than the will of the voters.

[PA Voter]

For all of you that want to see your delegates seated... Sign the petitions out there:

http://florida-delegates.com/pages/details/primary-date.php

and/or

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/seatourdelegates/

[Barbon]

Fact: Having full knowledge of the consequences, Florida and Michigan ignored the warnings and broke the rules anyway. Why? So campaigns would spend money there (hotels, meals, rental cars, printing, etc.) and reporters would write about the Sunshine State's warmth and hospitality.

Result: Florida can claim the position of #1 National Laughing Stock once more. You must feel so proud!

Tahler,

If she obeyed the rules then, she should obey them now. The delegates don't count. End of story...

Thank you Sally, for finally showing some ray of hope in logical thought and faar play

[Barry Stock]

My wife and I (I voted for Clinton, she for Obama in the primaries) have made it official, without waiting for further moaning. We DL'd the Voter Registration form, both switched our party affiliation from "Democrat" to no party affiliation. I have been a voting Florida Dem since 1983, and have dutifully supported the Democratic candidates in every election, but we have both had enough. No more money of ours will go to the party, although we might consider financial support of the candidate directly. I urge other (seriously, really, truly) disenfranchised Florida Dems to take the same step.

I didn't break any rules.

I voted.

[Raymond]

They allowed South Carolina to move their primary up but not Fla or Mich. wonder why?

[Economist]

Omega83, it is clear you are not an economist with that comment about rate cuts, all they achieved is flooding the markets with cheap money, thus all you get is people using that worthless paper to buy things that are worth it like gold and stocks, raising the price. So the "surge" of the markets is simply inflation, and guess what, say hello to a weaker dollar soon.

11:32

boils down to money...if they had to pay for TV ads in major Florida markets, they'd be wiped out at the start having to spread the costs to multiple candidates.

If you want to know the real reason bhind the rule in the first place, that's it.

[Omega83]

Economist,

Reread my post and you'll find we agree. The rate cut comments were Clinton's, and my post was critical.

[Raven]

Florida and Michigan voters are essen-
tial to our democractic process. I would hope the DNC would realize the folly of what has happened and seek to rectify immediately for the good of our
party and for the strength of our future. As has been pointed out,despite
confusion the turnout among Democrats
have been huge. This enthusiasm should
not be squandered. Find a way to
the seat the respective delegations,
or allow the re-vote. We have so much at stake. May I add, we need to do away with the caucus system. The caucus
votes in Texas are still NOT counted.
They are not all accounted for. Some
areas suspended the count. Problems
abound! Even when announced, that vote
should probably be challenged. We should go to an ALL primary system. It
allows in the fairest way, the greatest
number of people to vote! We are the
greatest country in the world! United
We Win!

[Barry Stock]

Florida Dems, here is the link:

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/regtovote/webappform.pdf

The form must be printed out and mailed in. The address for your county is on the second page of the PDF.

[sheb]

We democrats have to stick together! I believe there is something not right about this whole matter and I mean with the head people of the party. But if we all petition in the USA to stay home in November and prove it by the democrats in the upcoming states boycotting the primaries, I believe the DNC will definitely find a way to get those votes counted or take a revote! Stick together!All of our voices should count!!!!

GOD BLESS THE UNITED___50___STATES___OF___AMERICA

NOT 48 ! DEMOCRACY REMEMBER ?

[JR]

I don't think all the people will be pleased no matter what happens.

[Windhaven]

THE BLAME FOR THE PRIMARY DATE NOT BEING AT THE CORRECT TIME LIES IN HANDS OF THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR AND LEADERS. THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING AND KNEW THAT IF WOULD BE A KEY STRATEGY TO KEEP A REPUBLICAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND A WOMAN OUT OF OFFICE!!!

[Jen]

I think the comments here reflect what you see most everywhere in the Democratic Party, you're either in favor of democracy or you're in favor of Barack Obama.

[Edna]

Of course the votes of millions of Florida Democrats should be counted. This is NOT about which candidate one supports, but about voter disenfranchisement. Why should voters be punished for Republicans pushing through legislation that violated an unfair, arcane and arbitrary date-setting rule by ONE day? Dean should have cut our delegates in half, which was what the oh-so-precious-rules recommended doing, versus the INSANE move he made to disenfranchise FLORIDA DEMOCRATS, of all people, just at a time when we were fired up and unified to avenge what happened in 2000 when the republicans also obstructed a fair process as they repeated again by changing the primary date.

I am a lifelong Democrat who has never missed a vote. But if Obama becomes the nominee of my party, I will not cast my vote for him in November. He has repeatedly, snearingly and dismissively declared and had his minyons like John Kerry declare that my vote should not count and is even an "illegitimate fabrication". Well, hear this, Obama: if you don't want to count the illegitimate fabrications of millions of Floridians who turned out in record numbers to vote in our primary, then you will NOT get my illegitimate fabrication in November!

Enjoy watching Iowa and NH go red. Good thing you all bowed down to them! Because now Florida will probably go red, too. No, I will never vote repug. But I won't vote for Obama, either, since he has made it clear he has no use for my vote.

[Edna]

P.S. Correction: I meant to say that the date of the FL primary violated the arcane, arbitrary, and unfair rule by SEVEN days, not one day. My bad.

[Edna]

P.P.S. To Jaime: re your comment on drafting Al Gore to run: IF ONLY!!!!! I wish that could come true. But alas, I don't think it is possible, though it breaks my heart to type that. Just wanted you to know you are not alone in what you wish in your heart of hearts.

[Diane]

Shame on you ....Carly Loiseau, a 29-year-old nurse. There was another vote on the ballot in Florida. I believe some kind of tax vote. It seems you didn't care enought about your future to go vote. Divide the delegate based on the record turn out.

I will be voting for McCain.

No thank you to both Obama & Hillary

Redman,

..."By threatening to not seat our Florida delegates"...

They are not threatening... those were the rules in place before the primary...

Now, each and every one of you democrats out there... quit your bitchin...

[Neil]

Floridiots,

For all the reasons enumerated already, I'm unsympathetic.

Actually, it might even please me. After the crap you pulled in 2000, perhaps they should consider never letting you vote again.

FL wasn't going D anyway, and without your votes, it definetly won't be - therefore your efforts have the reverse effect. You tell the Dem nominee to screw off - and he does, why waste money on a red state with little return.

When Obama gets the nomination, hopefully he gives you the finger as he flies over the state to more important states that actually have voters.

""

[Evelyn]

I can not beleave what is going on.Obama had a chioce to leave his name on the valet in Florida and Machigan so did everyone else.Now if the dalegates are not going to count then why not then give 1.75-million Florida Democrats votes to whom was on the valet.That would count as the popular votes to put Hillary over the top...Think about it...I mean we are losing an up hill battle with all these rules....Think about it....

[rachel]

They should just award the delegates respectively based upon how the people voted and move on. That is fair, no one campaigned there, it was an equal fair shot between the candidates, Hillary won. The people of Florida deserve to have their say in this process as well, they showed up, they voted, they performed their civic duty and yet they are being ignored.
This is undemocratic.

Pssst ... Obama already won the Dem nomination ... but don't tell Hillary. And the Democrats already lost Florida, but don't tell them yet ...

[Roger]

It is not just the Democrats from Florida and Michigan who will not not vote Democrat in November. There is a large section of there party who will not vote Democrat if the Florida and Michigan elections are not accepted by the DNC. I could see as much as the same 25% doing a protest vote against the DNC nominee nationwide in support of our fellow citizens in Florida and Michigan.

[ellen]

Of course Obama does not want these primaries to count. He did campaign in Florida by bleeding ads from another state. He also supported the "uncommitted" vote in Michigan. I have voted democratic in every presidential election for 45 years. I will desert the democratic party if it cannot settle these revote disputes since the republicans will certainly benefit in November.

[Glo]

I am absolutely livid over the way Floridians are getting the shaft once again. I think we Americans need to speak up and have this whole voting process revamped to catch up with today's times. I think a true democracy should be decided by a POPULAR VOTE not delegates. That being said I guess Mr. Obama is afraid to count Floridian's votes because he knows darn well that Senator Clinton has him beaten hands down. If the shoe was on the other foot his campaign would be screaming bloody murder and playing the race card. I hope Senator Clinton reads this and calls him on the fact that a week ago Mr Obama clearly stated he would go along with whatever the DNC decided and now that they've called his bluff in Michigan he's against it? If you win the nomination Obama win it without cheating. I will say this you can bet your life that if the DNC doesn't want my vote in the primary election it's not getting it in November.

[Damaris]

GOD BLESS THE__UNITED__50__STATES__OF__AMERICA

NOT 48!
FLORIDA AND MICHIGAM WILL BE COUNTED.

WHAT ABOUT RESPECTING THE DECENCY OF THE VOTERS OPINION.

[Evan]

What I don't understand is why the DNC was so stirct on Florida and Michigan to take away their delegates. If they are really this strict, then why did they not kick Barack Obama out of the race for campaigning illegally in Florida after he had signed a contract saying he would campaign in neither Florida or Michigan. Obama's campaign aired a television ad that(even if it was not intended to)aired in many Floridian homes. Why do the crack down on the states as wholes but not the individual candidates who break the rules?

Another thing i don't understand is why people are worried that too many people did not vote because they new it didn't matter. A record 1.7 million voters showed up knowing that most-likely their vote would not count.

Windhaven

If you're going to lie, do you really have to do it in all caps?

5:41

it seems the voetrs opion across the country at this point is that more want Barack Obama than Hillary Clinton.

The next question should be, will the superdelegates respect that opinion?

[Sharon]

If you think that the Florida votes should be counted, and the Florida delegates should be seated, without a revote, please sign this petition:
http://florida-delegates.com/petition/

Take Care, Sharon

[MeoBem]

Ok all of you Obamatons, your personal anecdotes about either not voting yourself or knowing scads of people who didn't vote because you were told your vote wouldn't count are being disingenuous and shady - your BS about BO cannot be verified. Al Sharpton has been down in Florida trying to gather signatures from people who alledgedly did not vote because they were told their vote wouldn't count. How ridiculous - doesn't anyone see the transparent theatrics in that and also see that that is what BO and his campaign are advancing? Really? I thought the majority of BO supporters were the young, first time participants in elections who normally do not pay attention to elections because they're too busy or turned off by the "politics as usual crowd" So how is it that they are so intimately aware of the Democratic Party rules, ignoring the shenannigans of the Republican Gov. and the Republican dominated legislature in Florida? Obama, his campaign and his supporters (except most African-Americans), are shady. What a CROCK BARACK - Get Real Obama - quit supporting Jerimiah Wright and quit supporting the disenfrancisement of Florida voters. You too Pelosi, Dean, Kerry and most of all Teddy Kennedy you mysogonistic, murdering, drunken fool! Oh ya, don't forget his nephew's raping of that poor woman in Palm Beach or his brothers' JFK and RFKs' mysogystic views and experiences in the world. Disgusting, Obama should disavow, renounce and reject the Kennedys as well. I will and neither will millions of Democratic voters ever, ever, ever vote for BO and his lying, dirty campaign.

[anne mc]

Obama is stealing the democratic process from the voters of Michigan and Florida and hijacking this election. This man is dangerous.

Plesae email Howard Dean head of the DNC and let him know that we want the delegates of Michigan and Florida seated or we will stay home in november.

Anne , PA

[Damaris]

IT'S THE UNITED 50 STATES OF AMERICA

NOT THE UNITED 48 STATES OF AMERICA!

[Alvaro Aguirre]

The Florida and Michigan votes should count, otherwise the Democratic Party will face a hard time winning those states in the General Election. You can not tell people in Florida and Michigan your vote did not count in the primary, but we sure want your vote in the General Election. It is not going to work, and those delegates should be seated at the convention.

[Damaris]

WE SHOULD HAVE THE DECENCY AND RESPECT

FOR THE VOTERS OPINION IN FLORIDA AND

MICHIGAN. IF OUR SON'S AND DAUGHTER'S

FROM THE STATES OF FLORIDA AND

MIGHIGAN CAN GO TO WAR AND FIGHT AND

DIE TO DEFEND THIS GREAT NATION, WE

SHOULD THINK VERY HARD BEFORE LEAVING

THESE TWO STATES OUT OF THE PRIMARIES.

[anne mc]

Obama is stealing the democratic process from the voters of Michigan and Florida and hijacking this election. This man is dangerous.

Plesae email Howard Dean head of the DNC and let him know that we want the delegates of Michigan and Florida seated or we will stay home in november.

Anne , PA

[Glo]

It blows me away how impressionable and gullible the American people can be. Obama delivers an eloquent speech and the U.S. is mesmerized. People wake up. This so called "new politics" is anything but. THis man has been chasing the white house since he was in third grade. Do you realize that his main attack on HIllary is that she voted for the war and he didn't. Read his infamous book The Audacity of Hope where he admits that in 2003 he started to think the war was necessary. He says what you want to hear and all the Obamarites are just eating it up. What has he accomplished? The man hasn't even served a full term as U.S. Senator. He wants to change NAFTA yet had a behind the scenes meeting with Canada telling them it was just political rhetoric. He claims he'll end the war in Iraq yet he told his former campaign gal it was political talk and he'd reconsider leaving the troops there if there was evidence of Al Queda being there. Do I see a pattern here? He's just your run of the mill politician that is just pandering to the masses and my hat's off to you Obama you've succeeded. My only hope is if and when he gets elected and our country is forced to put up with another 4 years of a complete moron I will be smiling and saying to all you that voted for him, "Serves you friggin right"!.

[O.]

Florida had a record number of Democrats who exercised thier right to vote in January - 1.75 million. None of the candidates campaigned there, how much fairer can you get? Regardless of the "rules", those votes should count!

[Eddie Bryan]

Personally, when I have broken the law and am going to be penalized for my violation I like to know what law it was, the details.
Obviously the DNC and the Florida State Legislature are at odds here. What is it in the statutes and codes of the National Democratic Party that allows it to deny a state its representation, a central core of the democratic dream and the original American revolution. What is it in the Democratic Party's constitution that allows them to deny us our representation at the convention. And how was the Florida State Legislature allowed to put the voters of its state in a situation where there vote would not be heard.
This has to be unconstitutional!!!

Come on SPT... close this one... Hillary's folks are being linked to this site... and they don't even have to put up with the annoying pop up ad along the bottom of the screen... you have already milked this blog for all it is worth.

I'd rather 4 more years of an idiot, than a psychotic socialist who will run our economy into the ground

[dee]

It is so wrong for Sen. Obama and his campaign to be blocking both Florida and Michigan voters from having their primaries count and to be seated. The real Democrats know this dis-enfranchisement of Florida and Michigan will hurt our party in the Fall. If Florida and Michigan are not seated I strongly blame Sen. Obama. It is ad and shocking that Sen. Obama's is willing to pursue tactics so unbelievably selfish and self-serving. This selfishness totally discredits his stated belief in the importance of counting every vote count.
Recent events have shown a backlash against Obama which cannot be ignored. Sen.Clinton is the Democrat most broadly representative of our Party, and is now our most electable Democrat in the race now against Sen. McCain. The Supreme Court hangs in the balance, we Democrats need to win in the Fall. If we block Florida and Michigan from even being heard we do so at our peril.

[Wes Wilson]

I have long admired both Bill and Hillary Clinton. I love them both for all the good they have done. I'll never forget my joy at hearing over the radio - Bill boldly announcig his run for the presidency back in 1991 - or early 1992 - I have watched the Clinton history unfold - seen them pass through both the good times and the bad - and always kept my respect for their 'Best For The American People'brand of politics.
I note that Florida was the site of the 2000 voting debacle - where Lowly Republicans cheated our Grand Republic of its rightfully counted vote - bringing the current idot-men into national management - to the detriment of us all - allowing tides of greed and public service denial to flood the nation with extreme shortsighted selfishness. I also note that that voter debacle came about because of 'rules' - a la Florida State Secretary Kathryn Harris! Let us hope that NO Democrat can sanction such as this to happen yet again.
Obama needs to realize that instead of 'an immediacy of now' - or whatever - there is a 'seniority' matter also - how most of what he is championing is what Hillary has already stood for and is ready to implement - and that they have faced the worst of Republican PR fire ever - for over a decade and still going strong (even at "hillaryclinton.net" - !!!) - and - even after all this PR hate - Hillary Clinton has miraculously survived! - even thrived!
Obama is young enough - and old enough - and I'm sure smart enough - to REALIZE the prime need we Democrats have - to count ALL THE VOTE.
- Wes Wilson

JEB Bush spent $4 million to CREATE out of whole cloth a PHONY list of "felons" to PURGE from voter rolls.

Then used it to stop non-felons with names something like a felon from voting, even tho SS# didn't match. Preventing valid voters from being heard ------- put his brother in office.

Bush's clones Charlie and Company -- just played same game a different way. Cheat, lie, steal, create dissention.

Since 2000 they've caged voters, cleaned minorities from lists, etc. And NOW they managed PRIOR CENSORSHIP so that Slick Willy's Wife could use her name recognition to defeat an unknown who won't play big money politics.

Do FLORIDIANS REALLY CARE about people being disenfranchised? Prove it. You know that JIM CROW law residues STILL keep an inordinant number of minority voters from ever voting. Other states let them. We know many were wrongly jailed and still suffer exclusion.

Do you care? If not -- quit bitching about a crazy old preacher who knows WE STILL CHEAT OUR BLACK and BROWN CITIZENS. Taxation without representation.

Caring about THEM would have kept Bush from purging innocent NON-FELONS from voter rolls in 2000. FIX IT NOW. Let them vote by November.

Or quit whining about fair, freedom, rights, counting, seating, etc.

While there -- why should millions of Florida Dem. votes not count for Electoral College because Reps. get a few more votes? NO LOGIC in winner-take-all for electors. Apportion them. Fix it NOW.

Hillary had 8 years in White House. I believe in term limits. She and Bill fell for Poppy Bush's NAFTA stealing our jobs.

We need new blood washing all that old dirt out of DC.

2:30

put down the crack pipe. Where have you been. Crist restored the voting rights issue months ago.

And what jobs did NAFTA "steal"? They were always going to go overseas. It's called a free market economy. The more American consumers demand lower prices, the more companies will do to supply th edemans. And the biggest cost to Ameircan companies? Labor.

You wan't to blame anyone for "stealing" jobs, blame the AFL-CIO and unions for forcing unreasonable demands over the decades.

Democrats,

Where was your cry for making your votes count when your party set the rules? What were you "polling" trends then??!!

[sandy]

ALL AMERICANS, FLORIDA PLAYED GAMES IN 2000, AND THEIR GOING TO DO IT AGAIN NOW, THE POWER FREAKS ARE GOING TO DO WHAT THEY WANT, BECAUSE WE THE PEOPLE LET THEM CHEAT AND LIE. AMERICANS IN 1776 WOULD NOT HAVE ALLOWED THIS CRAP TO GO ON. FLORIDA ALLOWED 7 WHITE ADULTS TO WALK FREE AFTER MURDERING A 14 YEAR OLD BLACK BOY, SHAME ON ALL OF US!!!! WE HAVE DISGRACED OURSELVES

[SJC]

Well said Melanie! It's too bad so many wee men feel so threatened by a strong, intelligent woman... Especially when the other choice is a racist, CON man... Pity the poor incompentent men who haven't the b---ls to be MEN!

[rachel]

how much did Howard Dean get to pocket for following through with this despicable crime.