House passes 'guns at work' bill

The Florida House Wednesday passed the so-called guns-at-work bill by a 72-42 vote and sent it to the Senate. Approval came after three years of debate and discussion, over the strong opposition of much of the state's business community. The bill (HB 503), which allows concealed weapons permit holders to keep their guns locked in their cars at work and visitors who do not have such permits, was amended to exclude nuclear plants, and now goes to the Senate. Three Democrats voted for the bill and five Republicans voted against it, including two from Pinellas County: Reps. Jim Frishe and Ed Hooper.

"Law abiding people have a right to have a firearm in their vehicle to protect themselves and their families," said National Rifle Association lobbyist Marion Hammer. Senate passage is considered likely, but Gov. Charlie Crist has not said whether he will sign the bill, citing the tussle between gun rights and property rights. "I think there are some real competing issues with that piece of legislation," Crist said recently.

Does the NRA's Hammer think Crist will sign the bill if the Senate passes it? "I never make predictions," Hammer said. Crist would be wise to clear out his email in-box. Lawmakers report getting thousands of email messages in recent days from NRA members.

Comments

[csbrudy]

Who cares? Just so long as they don't have a bag of pot in the glove box as well.

Wouldn't a lunatic just go home and get his gun?

We are in far more danger from Vote By Mail initiatives, frankly.

um, that's four Democrats--Soto is still registered that way anyway.

If I find out one of my employees has a concealed weapon in their car on my property - they are fired. Simple as that.

If I can't fire an employee for having a gun, there are a plethora of other reasons I can fire them.

You want a gun on my property - find employment elsewhere.

you can't discriminate against race sex or religion.

now the state says a business owner can't discriminate based upon gun ownership?

I'd rather pay the fines for firing someone's a_ss than the lawsuits that will come if they flip out and kill people.

No one tells me who I can and can't hire or fire! BULLS*IT!!!

The NRA better be able to finance all these legislators campaigns.

From what I am hearing, Those that voted NO, Will be hearing NO loud and clear when they call for their campaign contributions.

Um, those who voted NO voted in favor of business, not the NRA. I see your point, sideways.

STOP DIVERTING ATTENTION AWAY FROM YOUR LIES AND FAILURES, AND FIX INSURANCE LIKE YOU PROMISED “THE PEOPLE”!

Lock-n-Load my fellow frustrated cubicle-jockeys… Lock-n-Load!

I can see it now - "Bring your gun to the Capitol day" is going to be big next year!

This bill was a joke. They passed it so Hammer would finally just go away - she's doing more harm than good to the party these days.

[switching parties]

Great. You gotta love a so called Republican legislature that apologizes for something that was outlawed 140 years ago, considers whether teenagers should still be allowed to dress in a way the bugs adults, gives businesses yet ONE MORE REASON that they can't fire someone, and DOES NOTHING to fix property tax and insurance. Woo hoo! What a Grand Old Party!!!

Hey people, I have always had a gun in my car... no one has been stupid enough to find out that it is there, but be assured, it is there.

[Annie Oakley]

8:49- Nobody found the gun in your car??? According to Greg Evers and Marion Hammer businesses are rampantly searching employees' cars. I thought that's why this legislation had to pass immediately! I mean, it must be WAY more important than, oh PROPERTY TAXES and INSURANCE and a small little budget problem!

Nope, no one has found the gun, and no one has been stupid enough to do something that would cause me to pull it out... but it is there...

Funny thing is, that as a customer, I am carrying my weapon onto the same properties that those who say they will fire employees for doing the same.

[Boca Grande]

Kudos to Frishe and Hooper for standing up to NRA pressure and supporting property rights. When the time comes these principled legislators will no doubt support the second amendment as well.

Fire someone that is packing-very smart

[Ed]

What a great idea. When you have a bad day at work, instead of taking it out on your spouse at home (verbally), you can just take it out on your boss, or coworkers (with a gun)!

If the Gov. vetoes this bill I may consider voting for him.

Is there anyone out there that honestly believes the passage of this legislation won't lead to more unintended gun deaths?

This state is so messed up...

Why does every one of the respondents here seem to think that because a person has a firearm in their vehicle it is going to be used on an employerr or fellow employees? Are the jobs in Florida that bad?

I wonder if these same voices would be singing a different tune if that firearm were used to protect them.

I think so.

These comments remind me of the arguments against concealed carry on campuses. Don't you people get it? The whack-job who is going to shoot people on the job DOESN'T CARE THAT A GUN IN HIS VEHICLE ISN'T ALLOWED. GOD, IT IS SO OBVIOUS! The prohibition simply keeps normal people from carrying because they might get fired for having it in their vehicle.

[J. Emmerson]

For the gentleman who is brave enough to fire his employees if they have a gun, can I please know the name of your business?

That way I can avoid doing business with you in the future. You care so little about your employees' safety that I don't plan on giving you my money.

Somehow, I don't think you're willing to actually put your money where your mouth is.

[Rainman]

You wanna search my car for a weapon? You'd better have a search warrant, a damn good lawyer and the money to pay for one (and for what I'm awarded in the lawsuit)......

Why shouldn't we be allowed to keep a locked gun in our car? We can all travel through the interstate system with a gun locked in our car, even through states like NY, NJ and CA.

Many of my employees are women who commute to and from work at night and all odd hours. They have a right to have a gun in their vehicles for personal protection, as do all of my employees. I would never fire an employee for having a firearm in their vehicle.

[Jack Myers]

Don't these employers who post against passage here realize that someone intendng to HARM them or their business, is NOT going to follow any rules at all? Those of us who responsibly carry a personal protection weapon legally are certainly not intending that.

If I had employees I would urge them to apply for a personal carry permit and have their guns at work. If they can't pass THAT test, THEN I might consider firing them. Think about that!

Personally, I would NOT work for someone of your ilk. Please, explain to us how YOU protect your employees from such maniacs - and don't say "Call the cops" because by the time cops get there fatalities are already being counted!

If you bring your gun onto my property against my wishes, it better be in your hands and aimed at my head because getting fired isn't what you need to worry about. And thanks to the "castle provision," I will take you out and ask questions later.

[Drew Baye]

A person has the right to defend themselves, and the right to own and carry a weapon is an extension of that right. However, an employer has the right to dictate what people may or may not bring onto their property. While a sensible, informed employer would have no problem with employees who lawfully carry weapons for the purpose of self defense, unfortunately it seems that many employers here are morons. I pity your employees.

Ironically, if a business does not allow their employees to carry firearms, and if they make it known, they are sending a message to criminals that no effective resistance will be offered if someone decides to commit a violent crime on their property. The kind of people you need to be worried about will not be deterred by a law preventing them from having a gun in your parking lot.

I don't understand why anyone would leave a gun in their car any way. Why is it not on your person or within arm's reach where it is immediately accessible should it be needed? A gun is like a tourniquet. You don't need one very often, but when you do, you need it very badly, and very quickly. If you've left it in your car, you might as well have left it at home.

As for some of the morons who commented about firing their employees, I hope they have the sense to simply quit, and I hope your customers have the sense not to give you any more business. You most likely have competitors who do have the sense not to disarm their employees, thus providing a safer workplace (for everybody except violent criminals, that is).

[Justin]

I have no problem with people legally owning or carrying a gun (be it in their car or on their person for CCW holders). I do have a problem when my constitutional right are violated, like many large businesses are trying to do to their employees and patrons. This law is needed to clear up some loopholes. Private property rights are one thing, if you don't want guns in your building then post a sign banning them, the law provides for this. However, a car is also someone elses property, and they should be able to legally carry a gun in it wherever they go.

this bill is a reminder to employers not to violate thier employees personal rights. This bill keeps employers from searching thier employee's vehicles. All you "guns are evil" people would have a different opinion if the florida chamber of commerce wanted to search employee's cars for cigarettes or drugs. If the gun owner keeps his/her defensive firearm in thier vehicle then the employer will never know, and if this passes, the employer won't have the right to digging through someone's personal property to find an excuse. And if your a buisness owner who fires his/her employees for excercising thier constitutionaly protected rights then I would love to know what your buisness is so that I and many others like me can avoid doing buisness with you. you would probably sue me or try to have me arrested for speaking my mind or refusing to let you look thru my wallet for other things you find offensive.

2:20

do business with whomever you choose. none of my employees will have guns at mine. period.

[Drew Baye]

Some anonymous moron said:

"If you bring your gun onto my property against my wishes, it better be in your hands and aimed at my head because getting fired isn't what you need to worry about. And thanks to the "castle provision," I will take you out and ask questions later."

You are an idiot. First, it is unlikely you would ever know someone was carrying, unless they had no idea what they were doing and weren't concealing their weapon properly. Second, as long as they are not threatening or assaulting anyone with the weapon, you have no right to, as you imply, kill or otherwise harm them.

If you have the balls to post the name of your business, I will gladly honor your wishes, though. I will not patronize your business, and will discourage others from doing so as well. The same goes for the rest of the anti-gun morons here.

Justin,

A car is someone else's property. But when it's parked on someone else's property, the land owner's rights trump that of the car's.

Drew,

I am not anti-gun. I am anti-government telling me how I can run my business.

I am also anti-trial lawyer trying to bankrupt me when someone with a gun kills people on my property.

I can't believe we are even debating this. We have been conditioned to believe that guns themselves are in some way evil. They are not. There will never be an incident where a gun will get out of that car and start shooting people. Having a gun in a locked car is not the issue. Allowing the people to defend themselves from the percentage of people who are sociopaths IS THE ISSUE. And, allowing employers to deny us any rights guaranteed under the Bill of Rights is just not a logical thing to do...EVER! ........Big Al

Drew.

My business has "effective resistance." It's called the armed security guards I hire to be on duty 24/7.

[JoAn Cullinane]

You bleeding heart liberals who are so against legal gun carry will likely be dead before the police arrive to "save" you, which was never their job anyway. The average time between a 911 call and the arrival of the police is 15-20 mins. I know several people with concealed carry permits - the last thing in the world we, and they, want to do is shoot someone, ever. We carry only for protection from really bad people, and we tend not to be too trusting. And most of us carry our guns in our vehicles already. And that is not against the law. And while I really like Publix, I'm finding other places to shop. Shades of George Soros, Brady, and the Clintons!

[Jay]

I was one of those many NRA members writing the lawmakers. this law was needed and a no brainer. even more, I would have liked to see the lawmakers change the Florida contitution much as it is in say, New Mexico, where your auto is considered same as your domicile, your allowed to have your gun within your automobile at anytime in anyplace in the state. they also have open carry, as does Arizona, and seem to have no problems with crimminals or otherwise when a citizen straps on a rig and goes about their daily business. only a person with a criminal intent need worry.

Big Al,

You do not have a Constitutional right to be employed. And if you have a problem with an employer "denying you your rights" that employer has a right to deny you employment.

I am disgusted by the people who posted that they would fire someone for having a firearm in their vehicle, even making up some other reason to do it if need be. You are a big part of the problem. If you're so scared of your employees shooting up the place because they have a gun, you must be a piss-poor employer. Regardless, as has been said, if they're going to shoot up the place, how does prohibiting weapons in their vehicles stop them from doing that anyway?
Yes, there are many places that don't allow firearms but don't check. However, if they do find out you have one, they'll fire you.
Worker alienation, my friends, worker alienation. Economically Marx's ideas may not have panned out, but in regards to labor and social class, he was dead on.

[Jay]

besides all these coments re:lawsuits, the bill was amended in order to appease big and little business giving them amunity from lawsuits if such a remote thing were to happen such as having an employee go berserk on your property?

[Marc Davis]

The people you should worry about have the gun anyway, they don't care what law is passed. When was the last time a concealed weapons holder shot someone not in self defense? I will hire those gun owners who want to protect their families, you hire the other ones.

JoAnne,

Let's say a Publix employee, who has a concealed weapons permit, uses their firearm to stop a felony from being committed on Publix property.

In the act of firing on the felon, the employee inadvertently hits and wounds a pedestrian - let's say, your son. The result is hundreds of thousnads of dollars in medical expenses, as well as your son's paralysis, rendering him unable to perform future job functions, and thus limit future opportunities to earn a living.

Would you then sue Publix for the losses incurred to your son?

[Jay]

Negative comments seem to be mostly from little small business' and very uninformed anti gunners who haven't a clue about what gun ownership and concealed carry is all about. just rabid anti gun idiots, notice they never post their name and the name of their business, IF they even have a business? most entreprenurial people I have met understand what the constitution is all about and are not afraid of lawfully owned and carried guns.

[Scott]

A gun locked in my car is safer than one left in a hotel room. I travel on business regularly throughout rural Florida. If I break down in the middle of nowhere, I want the right to defend myself.

One must be aware of the greater ramifications of a business having the authority to prohibit the possession of firearms in the personal vehicles of individuals. For example if an employee works part time at Disney and part time as a security guard elsewhere and is unable to have the requires tools of his security profession, such as a firearm, locked in his vehicle he would be unable to go from one job to the other. This would create an undue hardship. Additionally, in the case of a woman, who is in possession of a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon, who might be traveling to Disney would be unable to have her, legally possessed, means of protection on the drive there if prohibitive rules about personal possessions in private vehicles are in place. If this woman happens to get car jacked, assaulted, raped or even murdered while en route would then Disney be liable for forcing her to be into a situation where she would be unable to protect herself?
The businesses mentioned here have every right to enforce their rules while their employees and patrons are on their property, however, by regulating what someone may have in their car, which is remaining locked in the parking lot, they are essentially interfering with a persons constitutional rights elsewhere. It is this influence extending beyond their property that is the problem.
One must remember that law abiding citizens are the ones who abide by the laws. Criminals would have no such regard for the rules. One can rest assured that in instances like this the criminal element will still be possessing their weapons and then woe unto those who would follow the rules.

[John J. Urbas]

I am a member of the NRA and I have a conceal carry permit.Suppose I amin a business and someone sticks a gun in my face and damands my money from me or my wife.What am I suppose to do let him take it when he says he is going to shoot us.NO WAY.I am glad it was passed and that the senate passes it to.
John J Urbas

[Gregory Morris]

I'd be happy to see a no-liability provision included for businesses. If an employee shoots someone, then the business is not liable. Currently, Florida's self-defense law gives civil immunity to the shooter in a self-defense situation. However, that immunity is not extended to the employer. I understand why an employer would want to deny self-defense tools to their employees. Lawsuits are more expensive than replacing dead employees. It isn't an issue of a business being anti-gun, rather it is primarily the lack of tort-reform.

I would also support a law stating that businesses who do prohibit firearms be required to post standardized, LARGE, signage in prominent locations at every entrance. If a business chooses to be anti-gun, then they should let the community know that their property is a criminal-empowerment zone.

[norm]

"The bill (HB 503), which allows concealed weapons permit holders to keep their guns locked in their cars at work and visitors who do not have such permits, was amended to exclude nuclear plants, and now goes to the Senate."

Isn't it illegal to keep a visitor in the trunk or your car at work, even if the visitor doesn't have a gun permit?

[Gary]

Why does everyone think that a person with a gun in his car is some kind of nut? Many people are saved every year by those who happen to have their gun available. We have become a nation of wimps, always afraid of dumb things. How many employers who don't want employees to have guns in their cars are as concerned about their employees drinking and driving or even drinking and injuring a fellow employee? Maybe knives in the company dining room should be removed, just in case an employee goes nuts. EMPLOYERS GET REAL. AS AN EMPLOYER, MY EMPLOYEES CAN BE ARMED IF THEY LIKE AND I JUST MIGHT BE ARMED TOO. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND HIMSELF, WHEN NECESSARY. THANK GOODNESS WE HAVE THE SECOND AMENDMENT OR WE MIGHT ALL BE SPEAKING ANOTHER LANGUAGE, BUT THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING, WE MIGHT BE ANYWAY.

[Gary]

Why does everyone think that a person with a gun in his car is some kind of nut? Many people are saved every year by those who happen to have their gun available. We have become a nation of wimps, always afraid of dumb things. How many employers who don't want employees to have guns in their cars are as concerned about their employees drinking and driving or even drinking and injuring a fellow employee? Maybe knives in the company dining room should be removed, just in case an employee goes nuts. EMPLOYERS GET REAL. AS AN EMPLOYER, MY EMPLOYEES CAN BE ARMED IF THEY LIKE AND I JUST MIGHT BE ARMED TOO. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND HIMSELF, WHEN NECESSARY. THANK GOODNESS WE HAVE THE SECOND AMENDMENT OR WE MIGHT ALL BE SPEAKING ANOTHER LANGUAGE, BUT THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING, WE MIGHT BE ANYWAY.