House passes 'guns at work' bill

The Florida House Wednesday passed the so-called guns-at-work bill by a 72-42 vote and sent it to the Senate. Approval came after three years of debate and discussion, over the strong opposition of much of the state's business community. The bill (HB 503), which allows concealed weapons permit holders to keep their guns locked in their cars at work and visitors who do not have such permits, was amended to exclude nuclear plants, and now goes to the Senate. Three Democrats voted for the bill and five Republicans voted against it, including two from Pinellas County: Reps. Jim Frishe and Ed Hooper.

"Law abiding people have a right to have a firearm in their vehicle to protect themselves and their families," said National Rifle Association lobbyist Marion Hammer. Senate passage is considered likely, but Gov. Charlie Crist has not said whether he will sign the bill, citing the tussle between gun rights and property rights. "I think there are some real competing issues with that piece of legislation," Crist said recently.

Does the NRA's Hammer think Crist will sign the bill if the Senate passes it? "I never make predictions," Hammer said. Crist would be wise to clear out his email in-box. Lawmakers report getting thousands of email messages in recent days from NRA members.

Comments

[csbrudy]

Who cares? Just so long as they don't have a bag of pot in the glove box as well.

Wouldn't a lunatic just go home and get his gun?

We are in far more danger from Vote By Mail initiatives, frankly.

um, that's four Democrats--Soto is still registered that way anyway.

If I find out one of my employees has a concealed weapon in their car on my property - they are fired. Simple as that.

If I can't fire an employee for having a gun, there are a plethora of other reasons I can fire them.

You want a gun on my property - find employment elsewhere.

you can't discriminate against race sex or religion.

now the state says a business owner can't discriminate based upon gun ownership?

I'd rather pay the fines for firing someone's a_ss than the lawsuits that will come if they flip out and kill people.

No one tells me who I can and can't hire or fire! BULLS*IT!!!

The NRA better be able to finance all these legislators campaigns.

From what I am hearing, Those that voted NO, Will be hearing NO loud and clear when they call for their campaign contributions.

Um, those who voted NO voted in favor of business, not the NRA. I see your point, sideways.

STOP DIVERTING ATTENTION AWAY FROM YOUR LIES AND FAILURES, AND FIX INSURANCE LIKE YOU PROMISED “THE PEOPLE”!

Lock-n-Load my fellow frustrated cubicle-jockeys… Lock-n-Load!

I can see it now - "Bring your gun to the Capitol day" is going to be big next year!

This bill was a joke. They passed it so Hammer would finally just go away - she's doing more harm than good to the party these days.

[switching parties]

Great. You gotta love a so called Republican legislature that apologizes for something that was outlawed 140 years ago, considers whether teenagers should still be allowed to dress in a way the bugs adults, gives businesses yet ONE MORE REASON that they can't fire someone, and DOES NOTHING to fix property tax and insurance. Woo hoo! What a Grand Old Party!!!

Hey people, I have always had a gun in my car... no one has been stupid enough to find out that it is there, but be assured, it is there.

[Annie Oakley]

8:49- Nobody found the gun in your car??? According to Greg Evers and Marion Hammer businesses are rampantly searching employees' cars. I thought that's why this legislation had to pass immediately! I mean, it must be WAY more important than, oh PROPERTY TAXES and INSURANCE and a small little budget problem!

Nope, no one has found the gun, and no one has been stupid enough to do something that would cause me to pull it out... but it is there...

Funny thing is, that as a customer, I am carrying my weapon onto the same properties that those who say they will fire employees for doing the same.

[Boca Grande]

Kudos to Frishe and Hooper for standing up to NRA pressure and supporting property rights. When the time comes these principled legislators will no doubt support the second amendment as well.

Fire someone that is packing-very smart

[Ed]

What a great idea. When you have a bad day at work, instead of taking it out on your spouse at home (verbally), you can just take it out on your boss, or coworkers (with a gun)!

If the Gov. vetoes this bill I may consider voting for him.

Is there anyone out there that honestly believes the passage of this legislation won't lead to more unintended gun deaths?

This state is so messed up...

Why does every one of the respondents here seem to think that because a person has a firearm in their vehicle it is going to be used on an employerr or fellow employees? Are the jobs in Florida that bad?

I wonder if these same voices would be singing a different tune if that firearm were used to protect them.

I think so.

These comments remind me of the arguments against concealed carry on campuses. Don't you people get it? The whack-job who is going to shoot people on the job DOESN'T CARE THAT A GUN IN HIS VEHICLE ISN'T ALLOWED. GOD, IT IS SO OBVIOUS! The prohibition simply keeps normal people from carrying because they might get fired for having it in their vehicle.

[J. Emmerson]

For the gentleman who is brave enough to fire his employees if they have a gun, can I please know the name of your business?

That way I can avoid doing business with you in the future. You care so little about your employees' safety that I don't plan on giving you my money.

Somehow, I don't think you're willing to actually put your money where your mouth is.

[Rainman]

You wanna search my car for a weapon? You'd better have a search warrant, a damn good lawyer and the money to pay for one (and for what I'm awarded in the lawsuit)......

Why shouldn't we be allowed to keep a locked gun in our car? We can all travel through the interstate system with a gun locked in our car, even through states like NY, NJ and CA.

Many of my employees are women who commute to and from work at night and all odd hours. They have a right to have a gun in their vehicles for personal protection, as do all of my employees. I would never fire an employee for having a firearm in their vehicle.

[Jack Myers]

Don't these employers who post against passage here realize that someone intendng to HARM them or their business, is NOT going to follow any rules at all? Those of us who responsibly carry a personal protection weapon legally are certainly not intending that.

If I had employees I would urge them to apply for a personal carry permit and have their guns at work. If they can't pass THAT test, THEN I might consider firing them. Think about that!

Personally, I would NOT work for someone of your ilk. Please, explain to us how YOU protect your employees from such maniacs - and don't say "Call the cops" because by the time cops get there fatalities are already being counted!

If you bring your gun onto my property against my wishes, it better be in your hands and aimed at my head because getting fired isn't what you need to worry about. And thanks to the "castle provision," I will take you out and ask questions later.

[Drew Baye]

A person has the right to defend themselves, and the right to own and carry a weapon is an extension of that right. However, an employer has the right to dictate what people may or may not bring onto their property. While a sensible, informed employer would have no problem with employees who lawfully carry weapons for the purpose of self defense, unfortunately it seems that many employers here are morons. I pity your employees.

Ironically, if a business does not allow their employees to carry firearms, and if they make it known, they are sending a message to criminals that no effective resistance will be offered if someone decides to commit a violent crime on their property. The kind of people you need to be worried about will not be deterred by a law preventing them from having a gun in your parking lot.

I don't understand why anyone would leave a gun in their car any way. Why is it not on your person or within arm's reach where it is immediately accessible should it be needed? A gun is like a tourniquet. You don't need one very often, but when you do, you need it very badly, and very quickly. If you've left it in your car, you might as well have left it at home.

As for some of the morons who commented about firing their employees, I hope they have the sense to simply quit, and I hope your customers have the sense not to give you any more business. You most likely have competitors who do have the sense not to disarm their employees, thus providing a safer workplace (for everybody except violent criminals, that is).

[Justin]

I have no problem with people legally owning or carrying a gun (be it in their car or on their person for CCW holders). I do have a problem when my constitutional right are violated, like many large businesses are trying to do to their employees and patrons. This law is needed to clear up some loopholes. Private property rights are one thing, if you don't want guns in your building then post a sign banning them, the law provides for this. However, a car is also someone elses property, and they should be able to legally carry a gun in it wherever they go.

this bill is a reminder to employers not to violate thier employees personal rights. This bill keeps employers from searching thier employee's vehicles. All you "guns are evil" people would have a different opinion if the florida chamber of commerce wanted to search employee's cars for cigarettes or drugs. If the gun owner keeps his/her defensive firearm in thier vehicle then the employer will never know, and if this passes, the employer won't have the right to digging through someone's personal property to find an excuse. And if your a buisness owner who fires his/her employees for excercising thier constitutionaly protected rights then I would love to know what your buisness is so that I and many others like me can avoid doing buisness with you. you would probably sue me or try to have me arrested for speaking my mind or refusing to let you look thru my wallet for other things you find offensive.

2:20

do business with whomever you choose. none of my employees will have guns at mine. period.

[Drew Baye]

Some anonymous moron said:

"If you bring your gun onto my property against my wishes, it better be in your hands and aimed at my head because getting fired isn't what you need to worry about. And thanks to the "castle provision," I will take you out and ask questions later."

You are an idiot. First, it is unlikely you would ever know someone was carrying, unless they had no idea what they were doing and weren't concealing their weapon properly. Second, as long as they are not threatening or assaulting anyone with the weapon, you have no right to, as you imply, kill or otherwise harm them.

If you have the balls to post the name of your business, I will gladly honor your wishes, though. I will not patronize your business, and will discourage others from doing so as well. The same goes for the rest of the anti-gun morons here.

Justin,

A car is someone else's property. But when it's parked on someone else's property, the land owner's rights trump that of the car's.

Drew,

I am not anti-gun. I am anti-government telling me how I can run my business.

I am also anti-trial lawyer trying to bankrupt me when someone with a gun kills people on my property.

I can't believe we are even debating this. We have been conditioned to believe that guns themselves are in some way evil. They are not. There will never be an incident where a gun will get out of that car and start shooting people. Having a gun in a locked car is not the issue. Allowing the people to defend themselves from the percentage of people who are sociopaths IS THE ISSUE. And, allowing employers to deny us any rights guaranteed under the Bill of Rights is just not a logical thing to do...EVER! ........Big Al

Drew.

My business has "effective resistance." It's called the armed security guards I hire to be on duty 24/7.

[JoAn Cullinane]

You bleeding heart liberals who are so against legal gun carry will likely be dead before the police arrive to "save" you, which was never their job anyway. The average time between a 911 call and the arrival of the police is 15-20 mins. I know several people with concealed carry permits - the last thing in the world we, and they, want to do is shoot someone, ever. We carry only for protection from really bad people, and we tend not to be too trusting. And most of us carry our guns in our vehicles already. And that is not against the law. And while I really like Publix, I'm finding other places to shop. Shades of George Soros, Brady, and the Clintons!

[Jay]

I was one of those many NRA members writing the lawmakers. this law was needed and a no brainer. even more, I would have liked to see the lawmakers change the Florida contitution much as it is in say, New Mexico, where your auto is considered same as your domicile, your allowed to have your gun within your automobile at anytime in anyplace in the state. they also have open carry, as does Arizona, and seem to have no problems with crimminals or otherwise when a citizen straps on a rig and goes about their daily business. only a person with a criminal intent need worry.

Big Al,

You do not have a Constitutional right to be employed. And if you have a problem with an employer "denying you your rights" that employer has a right to deny you employment.

I am disgusted by the people who posted that they would fire someone for having a firearm in their vehicle, even making up some other reason to do it if need be. You are a big part of the problem. If you're so scared of your employees shooting up the place because they have a gun, you must be a piss-poor employer. Regardless, as has been said, if they're going to shoot up the place, how does prohibiting weapons in their vehicles stop them from doing that anyway?
Yes, there are many places that don't allow firearms but don't check. However, if they do find out you have one, they'll fire you.
Worker alienation, my friends, worker alienation. Economically Marx's ideas may not have panned out, but in regards to labor and social class, he was dead on.

[Jay]

besides all these coments re:lawsuits, the bill was amended in order to appease big and little business giving them amunity from lawsuits if such a remote thing were to happen such as having an employee go berserk on your property?

[Marc Davis]

The people you should worry about have the gun anyway, they don't care what law is passed. When was the last time a concealed weapons holder shot someone not in self defense? I will hire those gun owners who want to protect their families, you hire the other ones.

JoAnne,

Let's say a Publix employee, who has a concealed weapons permit, uses their firearm to stop a felony from being committed on Publix property.

In the act of firing on the felon, the employee inadvertently hits and wounds a pedestrian - let's say, your son. The result is hundreds of thousnads of dollars in medical expenses, as well as your son's paralysis, rendering him unable to perform future job functions, and thus limit future opportunities to earn a living.

Would you then sue Publix for the losses incurred to your son?

[Jay]

Negative comments seem to be mostly from little small business' and very uninformed anti gunners who haven't a clue about what gun ownership and concealed carry is all about. just rabid anti gun idiots, notice they never post their name and the name of their business, IF they even have a business? most entreprenurial people I have met understand what the constitution is all about and are not afraid of lawfully owned and carried guns.

[Scott]

A gun locked in my car is safer than one left in a hotel room. I travel on business regularly throughout rural Florida. If I break down in the middle of nowhere, I want the right to defend myself.

One must be aware of the greater ramifications of a business having the authority to prohibit the possession of firearms in the personal vehicles of individuals. For example if an employee works part time at Disney and part time as a security guard elsewhere and is unable to have the requires tools of his security profession, such as a firearm, locked in his vehicle he would be unable to go from one job to the other. This would create an undue hardship. Additionally, in the case of a woman, who is in possession of a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon, who might be traveling to Disney would be unable to have her, legally possessed, means of protection on the drive there if prohibitive rules about personal possessions in private vehicles are in place. If this woman happens to get car jacked, assaulted, raped or even murdered while en route would then Disney be liable for forcing her to be into a situation where she would be unable to protect herself?
The businesses mentioned here have every right to enforce their rules while their employees and patrons are on their property, however, by regulating what someone may have in their car, which is remaining locked in the parking lot, they are essentially interfering with a persons constitutional rights elsewhere. It is this influence extending beyond their property that is the problem.
One must remember that law abiding citizens are the ones who abide by the laws. Criminals would have no such regard for the rules. One can rest assured that in instances like this the criminal element will still be possessing their weapons and then woe unto those who would follow the rules.

[John J. Urbas]

I am a member of the NRA and I have a conceal carry permit.Suppose I amin a business and someone sticks a gun in my face and damands my money from me or my wife.What am I suppose to do let him take it when he says he is going to shoot us.NO WAY.I am glad it was passed and that the senate passes it to.
John J Urbas

[Gregory Morris]

I'd be happy to see a no-liability provision included for businesses. If an employee shoots someone, then the business is not liable. Currently, Florida's self-defense law gives civil immunity to the shooter in a self-defense situation. However, that immunity is not extended to the employer. I understand why an employer would want to deny self-defense tools to their employees. Lawsuits are more expensive than replacing dead employees. It isn't an issue of a business being anti-gun, rather it is primarily the lack of tort-reform.

I would also support a law stating that businesses who do prohibit firearms be required to post standardized, LARGE, signage in prominent locations at every entrance. If a business chooses to be anti-gun, then they should let the community know that their property is a criminal-empowerment zone.

[norm]

"The bill (HB 503), which allows concealed weapons permit holders to keep their guns locked in their cars at work and visitors who do not have such permits, was amended to exclude nuclear plants, and now goes to the Senate."

Isn't it illegal to keep a visitor in the trunk or your car at work, even if the visitor doesn't have a gun permit?

[Gary]

Why does everyone think that a person with a gun in his car is some kind of nut? Many people are saved every year by those who happen to have their gun available. We have become a nation of wimps, always afraid of dumb things. How many employers who don't want employees to have guns in their cars are as concerned about their employees drinking and driving or even drinking and injuring a fellow employee? Maybe knives in the company dining room should be removed, just in case an employee goes nuts. EMPLOYERS GET REAL. AS AN EMPLOYER, MY EMPLOYEES CAN BE ARMED IF THEY LIKE AND I JUST MIGHT BE ARMED TOO. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND HIMSELF, WHEN NECESSARY. THANK GOODNESS WE HAVE THE SECOND AMENDMENT OR WE MIGHT ALL BE SPEAKING ANOTHER LANGUAGE, BUT THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING, WE MIGHT BE ANYWAY.

[Gary]

Why does everyone think that a person with a gun in his car is some kind of nut? Many people are saved every year by those who happen to have their gun available. We have become a nation of wimps, always afraid of dumb things. How many employers who don't want employees to have guns in their cars are as concerned about their employees drinking and driving or even drinking and injuring a fellow employee? Maybe knives in the company dining room should be removed, just in case an employee goes nuts. EMPLOYERS GET REAL. AS AN EMPLOYER, MY EMPLOYEES CAN BE ARMED IF THEY LIKE AND I JUST MIGHT BE ARMED TOO. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND HIMSELF, WHEN NECESSARY. THANK GOODNESS WE HAVE THE SECOND AMENDMENT OR WE MIGHT ALL BE SPEAKING ANOTHER LANGUAGE, BUT THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING, WE MIGHT BE ANYWAY.

[Vocal Majority]

If I work for you and you tell me not to voice my opinion because it might be bad for business, I respect that... But to tell me that I can not have a tool used for protection of myself and family secured in my vehicle. GO TO HELL!! You are ignorant or evil.. I will not be denied the right to ensure the safety of the people I care about.

[Daniel R.]

So .. this is what I am hearing, correct me if I am wrong (LOL!) ..

I can spend my money at your "place of business on your property with my gun?" However, I can not earn a living at your "place of business on your property with my gun?"

Your emotional fear is causing you to surrender the very thing that the framers (founding Fathers) wanted you to have. YOUR OWN PROTECTION.

Why is it the 2nd Ammendment and not the last? I am guessing that the Framers thought it to be the 2nd most important. Since it comes right after "Freedom of Speech" .. which wont exist when you take away the RIGHT that gives all the others backbone.

I am a small business owner and I think that my employees have their rights, and I will not violate those rights.

my company is proudly Pro-Gun! .. DinoGreenFuels.com .. come on in, guns welcome. Fear not allowed!

If a law abiding gun owner makes a mistake, and hurts somebody, and the accident ocurred on a 3rd party's property - does the victim have standing to recover losses from that 3rd party?

[Jim]

Remember ..... when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Vocal Majority - you have all the right in the world to defend yourself.

However, I have all the right in the world to decide whether or not to hire and fire you.

If a law abiding gun owner makes a mistake, and hurts somebody, and the accident ocurred on a 3rd party's property - does the victim have standing to recover losses from that 3rd party?

rep. traveisa really sucks at his job.

In the Forty + years I had been in busines in Florida, I encouraged all my employees to carry and display guns. No Problems. I think most of the problems come from the newcomers from the North East Liberal States.

Will Publix get sued if an employee uses a gun on their property and accidentally shoots someone else?

[Jeff in TX]

There is NO logical connection between an employee having a gun locked in his/her car in your parking lot, and any form of increased danger to your other employees or business. If anything, a wealth of research indicates that just the opposite is the case. Given this fact, your desire as an employer, to bully your employees by dictating their personal habits is reprehensible in the extreme. Would you fire an employee for not wearing underwear? How would you know? Are you going to search them all? If you knew, and you didn't like it, so what? Your rights as an employer can NEVER supercede your employee's individual rights as citizens. If you could find a rational argument for how having a gun locked in an employee's car increases the physical or legal danger to your business, let's hear that. But your arrogance is exactly what you keep accusing the pro-gunners of, and it just makes you look stupid and bullying. As long as you open your business to the public (unlike your home, for example)you will have to respect the civil rights (including the right to defend themselves)of others who work or do business there. You can no more refuse me service, or a job, because I have a gun in my car than because my skin is black.

[Paul]

To all you employers, you will sure wish someone you can trust is near by with a gun, to protect your a-ss, when a crazy comes in to kill you.

[Steve Holvik]

I am an employer and i am a citizen. I would much rather lose rights as an employer rather then my constitutional rights as a citizen. Like the one person said..I wish all my employees had carry permits, that way i know they have passed extensive federal background checks and demonstrate responsibility on a daily bases. Let us not forget that most of the crazed shooting sprees that take place these days occur in "Gun Free Zones"...gee, i wonder why? Spending all this time and money on something that was already resolved when our founding fathers drafted our bill of rights is a disgusting misuse of my taxes. Thats what people should be P.O.'d about!

[Daniel R.]

We can sue companies for not providing security? right? I want 2 people to come to my wifes car, walk her into the store, stay with her in the store, and then walk her back to the car.

That would solve my issues, but one question remains, would those to people be armed?

seems silly doesnt it?

I agree with tort reforms, protect the business from lawsuits - and mandate the the display of their anti-gun position.

But even better !! .. remove ALL legal protections if a company has an anti-gun policy! ..

NOW WHERE DO YOU STAND?!?

[David]

When honest law abiding citizens are no longer allowed to carry guns,Mr Businessman will be sweating bullets.

[Mike]

OK. If you prevent me from having a gun in my car on your property, and I am physically attacked by a real BIG bully while standing beside my car on your property, then you are liable for my injuries because you prevented me from being able to defend myself. You didn't provide the same protection that I would have had had you not prevented me. And BOY am I going to collect from your insurance. I may even be able to put you out of business.

[Gregory Morris]

For all the folks asking about "will so-and-so get sued if someone is accidentally shot"... this bill has NOTHING what-so-ever to do with that. Nothing is going to change litigation-wise regardless of whether or not this bill is passed.

This law simply makes it so some employers cannot effectively ban guns in their parking lots. Of course, nobody has found a way to effectively guarantee that guns are kept out of parking lots.

In response to “If a law abiding gun owner makes a mistake, and hurts somebody, and the accident occurred on a 3rd party's property - does the victim have standing to recover losses from that 3rd party?”

If a police officer makes a mistake, and hurts somebody, and the accident occurred on a 3rd party's property - does the victim have standing to recover losses from that 3rd party?

Thank you for at least answering my question Gregory Morris.

However, your answer "nothing is going to change litigation-wise regardless of whether or not this bill is passed" does concern me.

If a business must recognize an employee's right to carry a concealed weapon, and that employeee uses that weapon, and in doing so, hurts or kills someone - that business, not the employee - could be considered neglient and liable, and thus subject to a lawsuit.

It would be great for the business to be immune from such litigation.

Which then begs the quesiton of the victim - if the gun owner is immune, and the business is immune, and the criminal is dead - who pays for the victim's medical bills?

[Greg]

Its about time to have some rights back!! If you don't want me to bring a gun in your office thats fine. When a crazy gun men comes in that could care less about laws and shoots you. you are going to wish there was a law abinding citizen there with a carry permit. do you think a "do not carry" is going to stop crooks? NO just law abinding citizens. I'm glad it passed

[GREG]

"""OK. If you prevent me from having a gun in my car on your property, and I am physically attacked by a real BIG bully while standing beside my car on your property, then you are liable for my injuries because you prevented me from being able to defend myself. You didn't provide the same protection that I would have had had you not prevented me. And BOY am I going to collect from your insurance. I may even be able to put you out of business."" GOOD POINT MIKE!!!!

[Gregory Morris]

"Thank you for at least answering my question Gregory Morris."
I would love to know who it is I am responding to.

"If a business must recognize an employee's right to carry a concealed weapon..."
That's not what this law is about. It is about a firearm locked within someone's car in a parking lot.

I agree businesses have the right to ban firearms on their private property, however, any property where the public has the right of access is not the same as truly private property. It is my assertion that when the public has the right of access, you cannot ban guns. In any other area you may. If you want your employees to park in a gated and locked parking lot, you should be able to say "no gun". But if they have to park in a spot that is accessible to anyone, they should be allowed to keep their firearms.

3:07

The munipality employing the police officer would be liable. However, in most cases the municipality would have the means to finance the payment of loss.

However, if an employee is liable in an accidental shooting, and does not have the ability to compenstae the victim for losses, who then will compensate the victim?

[gregs238]

""Remember ..... when seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

you better hope one of your people are armed. because the crooks could care less about your rules or laws

[Dave]

For all you employers that want to fire employees for exercising the right to bear arms, how about when you get sued by an employee's survivors when they are killed on their way home from your "gun free" place of business because he or she was unable to defend themselves against a gun totting criminal all because of your anti rights workplace rule? Better yet, how about the gun toting criminal that comes into your "gun free" place of employment and kills your unarmed employee because they were kept defenseless by your no guns rule? Maybe a couple of "gun free" businesses getting sued out of business would change your obtuse views.

[Steve Holvik]

Looks like the lawyers are on the board now....I have seen several comments about "who will compensate the victim" if no one is liable. Well the good news is the VICTIM IS ALIVE! The scenario could have been "everyone is dead". Idiots. I still stand by my previous comment.

[bailey]

i have a carry permit and refuse to shop were me and my 2nd amendment right are not welcome,
as for a gun on your store property IM the safest shopper you have i have been finger printed, background checked, chances are great i wont be the one shoplifting or robbing you while on your property. and IM also 100% sure the bad guy does not care for any of your rules or wishes.
Were not talking about guns at work were talking about guns locked up in law biding citizens cars that you have trusted enough to hire and be work around all day long.if you dont/cant trust them why did you hire them to start with!

[Dave]

How about all you anti-right business owners posting up the names of your businesses? That way we can vote with our dollars and put you out of business for your anti-rights "gun free" policies. Bet you won't tell us, will you? Your property rights are more important to the right of someone to defend their life? You are on the wrong side of that argument both legally and morally.

[HJ]

My wife works for a large corp. her building is in a very bad part of town, they have had multiple problems with employees being robbed and/or beaten while performing their duties, I have trained my wife and armed her, I would rather have my wife than her insurance. Not allowing her to have a firearm in her vehicle is just stupid. Good people do not do bad things just because they have a firearm....bad people will do bad things whenever they have the oportunity, I do not hire bad people to work for me.

[bailey]

A saying just came to mind.

JUDGED BY 12 OR CARRIED BY 6

Steve Holvik

If it was your kid with a bullet in his neck, unable to walk ever again and you had a $200k medical bill to pay...

I bet you'd be wanting a lot more than just the thanks he was still alive. And that's assuming that he even made it.

I am glad to see there are enough people who see the reality and obviousness of the situation.

1. Lawabiding cititzens are exactly that, law abiding. Passing this law does not change that fact! The people who are sociopaths and are going to shoot up your place could care less if they can or cannot carry a weapon in your business!! All that you accomplish by baning weapons on your property serves is to make law abiding citizens exponentionally less secure.

2. By defining that an employee is unable to have a weapon locked securely in their PERSONAL vehicle on your property, you are then making those same lawabiding citizens not only exponentially less secure on your premisis, but also, they now have no way to protect themselves while traveling to and from your business!!!

All of you that want to fire employees who have a weapon in the car, are you going to hire full time armed personal body guards to escort all of your employees to and from your place of work? ... yeah didnt think so.

Use your head for something other than anti-gun paranoia.

Dave

Whether they denied the employee the right to defned themselves, or they allowed their right and the employee negligently hurt someone else, it sounds like you are perfectly OK with the business getting sued either way.

What good is your right to carry your gun to work, if your boss lays you off beacause he's got to money left to pay you?

[Steve Holvik]

As a responsible person with a carry permit I also have medical insurance. I would still rather have my child saved from a violent attack and be in debt then have many bystanders watch in horror as my child is gunned down without mercy. again...idiots.

[Jonah]

I'm an average person here in FL, I come into every one of your stores, Im ALWAYS carrying. In order to get a permit to carry I have to be background checked by the FBI, this makes me a good person.. good enough for the FBI anyhow. Now.. I'm in your store... and so is some punk who's about to rob you and kill your wife (or husband).. what are you going to do? die? sit down and wait for it? Not if I'm there, because if I'm there I'm a good citizen with the right to carry a firearm and I will do my best to save you, your wife (or husband) and anyone else in the vicinity of a Punk wielding a weapon. Do some research of how many gun crimes are committed by CWP holders.. its nearly non existent.. DO NOT IMAGINE PEOPLE LEGALLY CARRYING A FIREARM IS BAD! You should consider us more like cops than bad guys we tend to fall 1000X more towards being a cop than being a punk criminal. The only people who would obey a law to not have a gun in their own car is a law abiding citizen... Anyone intending to do harm with the gun obviously don't care about the laws.

[Dave]

I'm just wondering, where in the Constitution is this "property right" that the anti-rights business owners are pumping out? While I am convinced without citation that property rights are essential to life and liberty, I am not convinced that property rights trump either life and liberty or any of the enumerated rights in the Bill of Rights - such as the right to keep and bear arms. I just don't see an enumerated right (the individual right to keep and bear arms) conflicting with an unenumerated right (property) and the fact that some businesses seem to place the value of their property over the value of life is just mindboggeling as to both its lack of logic and stupidity.

[Peter Patterson]

I am truly saddened by the level of intelligence displayed by many of those posting here. The right to keep and bear arms and to be able to defend oneself was only affirmed by the 2nd Amendment. Don't all you liberal business people know what the phrase shall not be abridged mean?

There is a fearful false assumption being made by many on this board.

It is the idea that because someone is a law abiding concealed weapons permit holder, that they also are expert marksment and never make a mistake.

Yes, permit holders are far and away experienced shooters and fully understand gun safety. However, accidents do happen.

[Tony Tartaglia CW2 USAR]

I originaly resided in one of those Northeast liberal states, New Hampshire to be exact where our state motto goes like this..LIVE FREE OR DIE... The reason we lived FREE in New Hampshire was almost everyone has a gun. Now I live free in Florida because I own 4 guns, and everyone in my family knows how, and more importantly, when to use them.
I firmly agree with the Second Ammendment and the NRA'S fight to keep the liberal one world wishers off of our backs.
We live in the United States of America which was founded on religious freedom backed up by a gun. Take either one away and we might be living in China,or England or Australia, or...,or...,or...

[Jonah]

your worried about accidents, how about the accidental criminal intentionally kills you and or your employees?

October 7, 1997: Hani Farah, owner of a Mt. Morris, MI, liquor
store, was accused of felonious assault on two liquor control board
investigators. According to reports, after the investigators had
seized an illegal gambling machine from Farah's store, Farah ran
after them, firing two shots. Farah, a concealed weapons permit
holder, had his permit revoked after this incident. (Reported in the
Flint, MI, Journal 12/4/97)

September 16, 1997: Former Broward County, FL judge candidate and
CCW license holder Daniel Blackman pulled his gun on an emergency
room doctor at St. Mary's Medical Center after the doctor refused to
write him a prescription. The doctor fled from the examining room
and summoned a police officer who confronted Blackman. Blackman then
pointed his gun at the officer, who managed to wrestle the gun from
him. In 1996 Blackman was accused of threatening to put three
bullets in the head of an officer after receiving a parking ticket at
an airport. Charges were dropped on assurances Blackman would receive
psychological treatment. Under Florida law, he was able to retain
his CCW license. (Reported in the Sun-Sentinel 9/17/97)

September 6, 1997: Five men got into an argument outside of Big
Willy's Saloon in Baldwin, PA. According to reports, words were
exchanged, and guns were pulled. All five individuals had valid
Pennsylvania Concealed Weapons Permits. Shots were fired, and five
people were injured, two critically. Five weapons were recovered.
Although only five bullets had been fired from three of the guns,
each shot managed to injure someone.

[Fred Brownbill]

Every citizen has the right to carry with a CCW. They should all take that up and obtain one. I personally would never shop, or allow any one in my family to shop, in a business that refused that right of protection to its workers and or customers. Having the gun locked in a car is useless, although better than nothing. The gun should be at hand, ready for that emergency. The Police will never get there on time to help, only to sort out the dead and injured. God bless America and lets hope that all these so called business owners on here, with no names or business names, do not get attacked or shot at. The way they write, I have to think that most of them will have failed businesses, if in fact they own one at all, because most are too stupid to run one.

[Zechariah Blanchard]

After reading every post here I feel the need to put in my "two cents" on this issue.

For one, NO-ONE has the right to search my vehicle without a warrant. I don't care if my vehicle lands in your front room. It is my vehicle and it is still MY property.

Two, employers have the right to fire anyone that carries a gun on their property in Florida, but that same employer should never know that their employee is carrying a gun. If your employer finds out then you have not properly concealed your weapon.

Every employee has the right to not work where an employer will not permit them the right to carry a weapon for self defense.

Three, it is true that if you are worried about your employees then you have your marbles mixed up. Florida CCW holders are the least likely group to commit a crime in this state. Look up the statistics.

Four, what if you - The Employer goes berserk - and start killing people? You just disregard everyone else? Their lives are worth nothing to you? As long as you feel safe no-one else matters?

Five, can you honestly say that you feel completely safe going to a gun-free zone? I don't. I am a college student at UCF and every time I drive to school I have to drive through some of the roughest neighborhoods in Central Florida. I have a CCW permit and have had one for 5 years. I am a long time gun owner, and believe in safety to the utmost extreme. But, if something happens to me when I am at school, one my way to school, or working after school then I am out of luck. I will just have to resort to throwing my 140lbs around to defend myself and my girlfriend or others. Probably not the most reliable way to do things, and I might get killed - giving that the criminal will probably have no respect for gun-free zones or gun laws - but that is a risk I take to be a law biding citizen of this great State.

Six, As for the post about shooting anyone on your property with a weapon, even if that weapon is properly concealed. YOU WILL GO TO JAIL FOR MURDER. Having a weapon on your person is not in itself an act of violence. You WILL have to prove that your life was threatened or that at the very least you believed that your life was in IMMINENT danger.

Last but not least. This post has given me the urge to write the NRA to have a list made up of businesses that are anti-gun and fire employees for legal carry. Yes, Florida is a state that allows employers to fire employees for just about anything, but that does not mean that I have to spend my money there.

Sincerely,
Zechariah Blanchard
Proud Gun Owner, NRA member, CCW Permit Holder, College Student, Voter, and Law Biding Citizen.

rofl, accident, now thats funny. Yes accidents happen. If you live your live scared of accidents you wouldnt get out of bed in the morning. More people die every day from expressely commited violence with intent, that a random accident.

3:50 scoffs at accidents. When an accident permanently paralyzes you, will you be laughing? Or will you be suing the living s*it out of someone?

[Steve Holvik]

had to go back eleven years for those news articles. good detective work (sarcastic). There are 3 types of people 1.sheep (you) 2. sheep dogs (me) and wolves (the people who are looking for you sheep).

[Jonah]

Ok someone who posts with no Name cited 3 cases in all of the country with CWP holders, the last one is questionable (not knowing all the facts), if I have 4 guys saying they are gonna kill me a gun might come out.. I'm at that point questioning my life. I run a business here in FL and encourage all of my employees to obtain a CWP and carry on the job for their own and my customers protection. I refuse to be a victim, the cops cant save me.. only I can.

[Dave]

So, what's your point? Permit holders back in 1997 used guns? What in the world does that have to do with my, and each citizen of the United States' Constitutional right to keep and bear arms? This argument has been used ad-nauseum by anti-gun and anti-rights bigots such as yourself but it doesn't hold up when it comes to the natural rights that our Founding Fathers affirmed by placing them firmly in our Constitution. Guns save lives and guns stop crime more so than any number of permit holder incidents you can come up with. In fact, having to have a permit is probably not what the Founders had in mind and is probably also un-Constitutional but for the liberal imposition of the "reasonableness" test (which the Founders also would probably frown upon as a government intrusion on our natural rights.

[Jonah]

3:53 my gun comes out of its holster on 3 occasions, its being put on my belt in the AM, its being taken off my belt in the PM or some one is in need of help that requires a weapon.. if an accident happens its going to be in the course of saving some ones life.. or when I'm home alone in my bedroom in the AM or PM.. be realistic

[Carl in Chicago]

I understand property rights and all, but I guess I am not sure why the opposition to storing a locked gun in a locked vehicle.

So....slavery is illegal, just like prohibiting guns is illegal. But just because you own property does not mean that you can practice slavery on your private property. So what makes you think you can prohibit a person's right to their gun on your property...after all, it's in their personal vehicle?

Grow up folks...enough of the nanny-business.

[bailey]

LOSE THE 2ND IS JUST THE START TO LOSING THE REST.
LOSE THE 1ST YOU WONT BE ABLE TO POST COMMENTS ANYMORE.

I want the list of no-carry businesses

[Jeff]

Bailey and several others,
VERY WELL SPOKEN MY FRIENDS!
You are the folks I want beside me in any business or store. The more of us who are legally carrying, the better as far as I'm concerned.
As far as the idiot above who will fire his employee...
If you've pissed-off your employees to that extent that you think they would use the weapon on you.....you need a life man!
Thank you NRA for the support!

[Steve Holvik]

It's funny how the anti-gun, anti-rights liberals on here wont post their names...yet all the proud American citizens who have the guts to stand up for their rights and refuse to be sheeple put their name on their words with great honer and conviction. I'm glad there are people like that. I'm glad I'm one of them.

[loaded]

I wonder why more of my employees don't carry, I support it and I do 14 hours a day.
The ones you have to worry about are the ones that have the guns.. pointed at you.
We have a right to defend ourselves, if you don't think people should have that right you just haven't had a family member or yourself in a bad situation.

Dave,

Pay the f_uck attention. I said nothing about whether or not you had the right for a CCW, or even the right to carry it where you wished.

I asked, is a business liable if an accidental shooting occurs on their property and/or by an employee they have hired?

Zach Blanchard - great post. I too, am a CCW holder and I would bet you that almost all of these anti-rights businesses would be shocked to know that I, and tens of thousands of other law abiding citizens have carried guns for personal in their "gun free" zones without them even knowing.

I think we can start with the members of the Florida Retail association and boycott their businesses. Their president wrote a very unintelligent and rambling article in yesterday's Orlando Sentinel My Word column. Maybe I'll call them up and get a list . . .

[Bob Smithson]

Read the bill... unless you want everyone to know that you are ignorant. Why would you speak of something you know nothing about?
HB 503 reads...(5) DUTY OF CARE OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE EMPLOYERS; IMMUNITY
FROM LIABILITY.--
(a) When subject to the provisions of subsection (4), a
public or private employer has no duty of care related to the
actions prohibited under such subsection.
(b) A public or private employer is not liable in a civil
action based on actions or inactions taken in compliance with
this section. The immunity provided in this subsection does not
apply to civil actions based on actions or inactions of public
or private employers that are unrelated to compliance with this
section.

I would venture to guess that a business, regardless of their stance on this issue would be liable... but I would also venture to guess that if they were a no-carry business, and it was known, they might be even more so liable, since they will be a known target for the CRIMINALS.

okay, spoke too soon...

4:08 sounds like a double-edged sword for businesses.

Bob Smithson - Thank you for providing thelanguage to business liability. Perhaps you can now answer my second quesiton.

If a person is injured in an accidental shooting, and the gun owner is unable to financially pay the claims of the victim, and the business where the accident occured is immune from liabilty - where then does the victim have recourse for compensation?

4:05 I wasn't talking to you, so perhaps maybe you should "pay the f--k attention." I'm not sure what you are rambling about but I'll give it a shot (no pun intended)

First, yes I am an attorney. Second, I don't do tort law. Third, call a personal injury attorney if you want to know whether or not a business is liable "if an accidental shooting occurs on their property and/or by an employee they have hired," and Fourth, who cares?

4:12

who cares? maybe the guy with a bullet in his spine, paralyzed because he can't work, saddles with thousands in medical bills...

and no one able to compnesate him for the accident

stupid f_uck.

Why wouldn't the business community support this bill? It provides them immunity.

[Steve Holvik]

4:12
finally an attorney i like!

4:14
your just one of those whining pukes who want to know "who can i sue", "who's gonna take care of me?". That's why your a sheep. You are the problem with this country.

[Dave]

Why doesn't the business community support the bill? I would guess the majority of them do, it is the lobbyist such as the Florida Retail Association that purport to represent the business community that are anti-rights except for their so called "property right."

This Florida Retail Association needs to be exposed. Who are they and who are their members?

Miss. Shooting Victim Awarded $4.5M, Nationwide Insurance not Liable

January 17, 2008

A Madison County, Miss., jury awarded $4.5 million to a woman who was shot in the arm after an accident at a fast food restaurant in Ridgeland, Miss.

The jury on Tuesday found Vicksburg attorney Thomas Randy Clark liable for the injuries suffered by Susan Wiltshire. Clark was sentenced in 2006 to 18 years in prison for the shooting.

Wiltshire initially sued Clark's business insurer, Nationwide.

The insurance company was successful in getting its portion of the case transferred to federal court. In November, U.S. District Judge Dan Jordan threw out the case against Nationwide, saying the vehicle Clark and his companion, Jackson lawyer Judith Kristie Smith, had just purchased that day wasn't part of the business.

Wiltshire has appealed that decision to the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Clark shot into Wiltshire's car following a fender bender May 22, 2005, at a Krystal restaurant, according to authorities.

Clark pleaded guilty to one count of drive-by shooting and two counts of aggravated assault.

Smith pleaded guilty to accessory after the fact to a drive-by shooting. Smith was sentenced in 2006 to a year of house arrest and four years' probation.

"We had taken the position that he negligently discharged the gun,'' said Wiltshire's attorney, Dale Danks Jr.

Percy Stanfield Jr., Clark's attorney in the criminal case who sat with him during the civil case, said the civil lawsuit won't affect his client.

"My client is in prison,'' Stanfield said. "He isn't going to pay a dime.''

If this does not get passed in the Senate and I am ever injured on property that is Gun-Free then I am going to do everything in my power to sue the hell out of the company that would not allow me to carry on their property.

I will sue on so many grounds in civil court.

"Denying me my right to self defense"

"Lost wages incurred due to company negligence in protecting me"

"Plain old company negligence"

"Failure to provide safety to consumers and employees"

I am sure that together we can think of a nice long list for potential victims if this legislation is not passed in the Senate.

Just an addition to my "two cents"

Sincerely,
Zechariah Blanchard
Proud Gun Owner, NRA member, CCW Permit Holder, College Student, Voter, and Law Biding Citizen.

4.14 Please sir, have you not noticed that the people who are in favor of the possession of firearms are generally more polite in their comments and do not resort to profanity? Why is it that those who wish to restrict the rights of others are the ones that speak with such rudeness and aggression? I would hazard a guess that there is some correlation between those who would like desire to possess a means of personal protection and maturity and manners.

[Gunnar Gundersen]

Please, the debate with all of these people who say they would "fire them" is rediculous. First the people you need to worry about are the people who do not follow the laws. Not the ones who have registered with the state and had fingeprint check run on them. I always find the argument rediculous that they think someone would commit murder but that telling them they cannot have a gun in there car would stop them. Also I think you will have a hard time figuring out if anyone really does or not. As usual laws were passed to make people feel better. If someone is crazy enough to kill you they are crazy enough to ignore the law and bring it anyways. You just disarm the law abiding people. Perhaps the ones who could save you. If you notice these cowards who go on killing sprees do it in places where nobody else is armed. Schools, workplaces.... They need to remove the liabilty from the business owners and allow the licensed permit holders to continue to carry their weapons. Just like they have when they are standing next to you in line at Wal-Mart. You lived through that didn't you?

Steve,

My cousin lost her arm in a car accident that was not her fault. She had no medical insurance, but the driver at fault had no auto insurance. Her medical bills were in the tens of thousands, and she could no longer perform certain job functions, forcing her to find work elsewhere for less pay.

Was she unreasonable to ask "whose going to take care of me"? Is she what's "wrong with this country?"

4:19

So the woman in Mississippi was awarded $4.5m.

The guy who shot her "is in prison...he isn't going to pay a dime''

A federal court "threw out the case against Nationwide, saying the vehicle Clark and his companion, Jackson lawyer Judith Kristie Smith, had just purchased that day wasn't part of the business."

So, who is going to pay her $4.5m?

[Dave]

Zechariah - all good grounds, but your strongest argument would be the denial of your natural and Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, which means among other things, to protect your life.

Too many times attorneys have used the torts laws to make a buck. The PRIMARY reason someone should want to sue an anti-rights business when an injury or death occurs, should be to send a message and put an end to these "gun free" zones in private businesses so that in the future no one gets injured or killed by a criminal who doesn't give a rat about whether or not it is a "gun free" zone.

It's just amazing how some of these anti-rights liberals think - "nobody should have guns!" I say, "only GOOD people should have guns" and gun laws only take guns away from GOOD people, not the criminals.

[Andrew Kay]

Why refer to this measure as the "Guns at work" bill. It does nothing to address bringing guns to work, only that private property can be kept on or in private property. In this case the private property is a LEGAL firearm in a private vehicle. Your use of this title indicates the writer's, or his source's, bias. Correctly it is titled “The Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008” and if you feel you must use a shorter, more descriptive title, try "Guns locked in cars" bill. Either way, the people of Florida support this legislation. It will pass.

[Steve Holvik]

4:23

no....and that is in another context. which constitutional rights should we take away from those people in your story to make sure that never happens again? What if a man saved your cousins life, but....she lost her arm. Who should pay?

[NRA instructor]

Law abiding, gun owners who carry for self defense are not the problem. Since 1986, when Fla. became a right to carry state, there have been over 1,000,000 carry permits issued. In that time only 16 of these permit holders have used their firearms to commit a felony. SIXTEEN over 22 years, and 1 million plus, lawfull, self-defense minded people. I'd say those are pretty overwhelming stats. Laws will only hinder, and have historically only hindered those who have no intent on abiding by them anyway.

Steve,
Isnt it obvious??? We should ban cars on private property also :)

Steve, I would never hope that a Good Samaritan would be legally liable (and I think in most cases they are immune).

I also would not think it fair to sue Toyota (the car she was driving), the City of Clearwater (where the accident occurred), or any other entity not immediately at fault for the accident.

Unfortunately, none of that changes the fact that the accident happened, and she has lost much, not only emotionally by financially as well - all because of something happening completely out of her control. She was employed by a small firm that did not offer health care or disability coverage to its employees. The otherr driver had no auto insurance. Her auto insurance paid the part of the claim it could, then dropped her. The additional medical costs, like rehab, were never covered. Her changing jobs resulted in a significant salary reduction.

Replace the car accident with a gun accident, and the same liability questions arise.

As a small business owner, it seems all too often that it's the business that ends up getting stuck with the bill

NRA instructor

For those 16 felonies committed, was anyone found negligent and also held civilly liable?

[Steve Holvik]

“I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” Thomas Jefferson

Whatever the reason wherever you stand, we can not let corporations dictate when and where we have our rights. This isn't stemming from the mom and pop shops, this is coming from well backed corporate groups.

To those that say they will fire anyone who has a gun in there car at work. Your better read the bill because your can be find yourself in court

4:39

There are a whole host of other reasons I can use to fire an employee that has a gun.

[Steve Holvik]

4:35

a fact of life old as time, sometimes crap just happens. Being able to arm myself to minimize the chances of it happening to me is my right, and the first law of nature.

Here is partial list of orgs and people and businesses that have been anti-gun.

List from the NRA
http://www.nraila.org//Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=15

Sincerely,
Zechariah Blanchard
Proud Gun Owner, NRA member, CCW Permit Holder, College Student, Voter, and Law Biding Citizen.

[Steve Holvik]

ok...gotta go

thanks...

we win...

Steve - you're right. This is coming from businesses who have had the crap sued out of them for events that have occurred on their proeprty.

You pro-NRA people think this has come about because businesses hate guns. That is so far from the truth.

It's come about because they've been sued for things that were not their fault and they believe they have a right to prevent that from happening again.

The immunity clause is helpful to businessess, however there will be no doubt it will get challenged in the event of an incedent. Either way, it increases legal expenses for a business - legal expenses the business may have avoided if they'd been allowed to manage their firm a certain way in the first place.

They also believe they have the right to run a business - which includes making personnell decisons - as free from government intervention as possible.

Oh no Zecharaih, I am sure Hallmark cards and the Kansas City Chiefs are quakin' in their boots about the damage an NRA led boycott might cause

[Gunnar Gundersen]

All well and good, as long as you do not take OUR rights. Your arguement is you have the right to deny us our rights? Lol, interesting.

To the 4:48 post.

Got you to look. :)

Sincerely,
Zechariah Blanchard
Proud Gun Owner, NRA member, CCW Permit Holder, College Student, Voter, and Law Biding Citizen.

I have a right to deny you employment...maybe I can't say it's because you have a gun, but I can always say I'm "downsizing due to slower economic productivity."

Either way your a_ss ain't working for me anymore.

[Ed Robinson]

In the last few months I've seen two serious beat-downs by a gang and one sexual assault. All three incidents happened while I was not carrying my legal weapon because my destination does not allow guns in vehicles, even though I have a FAA approved lock box to store it in.
I wouldn't mind asking the three victims of these crimes how they feel about the issue.

[Gunnar Gundersen]

How is it you think you would even know?

[Zechariah Blanchard]

On top of that, a true NRA Boycott could cause substantial damage to any business. The NRA is not a weak organization by any means.

I sent a letter to the NRA requesting that they place on file a list of businesses that are anti-gun, possibly by region for people to look over before they shop. Hopefully they will do that.

We, as a people, must always question authority, for authority only has as much power as we grant it, and it is the responsibility of every human being alive to make sure that future generations have a better world to live in then we do.

Today we lay the foundation for the future tomorrow. (Me late 2007)

Sincerely,
Zechariah Blanchard
Proud Gun Owner, NRA member, CCW Permit Holder, College Student, Voter, and Law Biding Citizen.

I'd ask you in the interview. And if you whined to your lawyer about it, I'd have already made sure there was no one else present to witness me asking, and would deny, deny deny.

I'd also use my security guards in the parking lot to watch you as you come in and out everyday, just to make sure you didn't lie to me.

One of them who moonlights for me is an off-duty sheriff's deputy, so he could always check state records for me while he's on duty.

Are CCW's public record?

[Zechariah Blanchard]

Quote "

I'd ask you in the interview. And if you whined to your lawyer about it, I'd have already made sure there was no one else present to witness me asking, and would deny, deny deny.

I'd also use my security guards in the parking lot to watch you as you come in and out everyday, just to make sure you didn't lie to me.

One of them who moonlights for me is an off-duty sheriff's deputy, so he could always check state records for me while he's on duty."

You sound like the criminal here, not us. All these things you speak of are breaking the law. If you use any of these tactics I hope that you someday get caught.

Sincerely,
Zechariah Blanchard
Proud Gun Owner, NRA member, CCW Permit Holder, College Student, Voter, and Law Biding Citizen.

[Ralph in St Augustine]

When will people learn that laws that take away rights from law abiding citizens is foolish. Do you think that guy who went into Wendys in Florida a few weeks ago and killed like 5 people called in first and asked if Wendys allowed guns on their property. Ask the loved ones of those who died that day if they wished if a law abiding citizen had a gun that day, or ask someone at Virginia Tech if they wished someone had a gun to stop that mad man. And as far as that person who wants to sue, you better hope none of your employees get robbed or killed becasue if it was me and I was denied the right to protect myself then I would sue, and for the employers who said they would fire their employees anyway it puts you on the same level as the criminals, DUMB

"you better hope none of your employees get robbed or killed becasue if it was me and I was denied the right to protect myself then I would sue"

so, the business gets sued if it does not allow guns, and the business gets sued if it does.

Sounds like, either way, the business gets screwed.