Tax swap skirts disaster, but questions abound

A style and drafting committee of the Taxation and Budget Reform Commission just finished discussing the tax swap proposal, and while subject to many questions, the plan was spared heavy blows some critics were hoping would keep it off the November ballot.

The plan, which would eliminate the required local effort for schools and replace with other revenue sources, including a sales tax, is certainly complex and that still poses a problem.

The committee wrangled with implementation language and how to make it read that school budgets will be held completely harmless, when the provisions (including a 5 percent assessment cap for non-homestead property) would go into effect and other concerns. It also adopted bill language from a nearly identical proposal sponsored by Patricia Levesque.

Commissioner John McKay, who first had the idea, summed up the worry: "I don't want to see us put ourselves in a position where we're changing so many words that someone could challenge our product in court and on that basis, invalidate it."

The proposal will be further refined by staff and discussed at another meeting next Thursday. It must then go to back to the 25-member TBRC, which previously voted 21-4 to put it on the agenda.

Business groups, fearful of a sales tax increase, are trying to prevent the measure from going on the ballot but understand odds are against them. In that case, some are seeking to phase out the required local effort in the hopes that the Legislature can find other ways to generate the estimated $9-billion or more in lost revenue in 2011.

Comments

[MAC ATTACK]

Stop the state's largest tax increase!!!!!!

largest for who??? how about eliminating property taxes altogether???

crawl back under that slimy rock.

let's get rid of all taxes

let's get rid of all the Republican legislators who over the past 8 years have raised our school property taxes!

If they screw around with this the TBRC will be deemed liers.

[Will]

mac attack,

You are a complete moron. Only a complete buffoon would see cutting property taxes by 25% and raising the sales tax by 1 cent (16%), which is a SWAP, is a huge tax increase.

Remember, tourists pay 25%-33% of the entire sales tax revenue in Florida.

[Will's Fact Checker]

Will,

Be honest with voters.

The sales tax will go up 33% to help make up for the "lost revenue"

GOP leaders have already gone public with the reality of a 2-cent sales tax increase in this swap plan

And that's only the beginning. More taxes will be raised too

[Assist2Sell & Buyowner]

let's cut realtor's fees by 90% to help jump start the property market.

let's end the outrageous fees charged by DRUNKEN REALTORS. They're just needless parasites. This will knock 5% or more off the mortgage right off the top.

Problem Solved!

[Tom]

This is a snowbirds dream. Cut his property taxes. Then the locals will have to pick up his savings by paying increased sales taxes and fees year round!

NAA Reveals Biggest Ad Revenue Plunge in More Than 50 Years

By Jennifer Saba

NEW YORK The newspaper industry has experienced the worst drop in advertising revenue in more than 50 years.

According to new data released by the Newspaper Association of America, total print advertising revenue in 2007 plunged 9.4% to $42 billion compared to 2006 -- the most severe percent decline since the association started measuring advertising expenditures in 1950.

The drop-off points to an economic slowdown on top of the secular challenges faced by the industry. The second worst decline in advertising revenue occurred in 2001 when it fell 9.0%.

Total advertising revenue in 2007 -- including online revenue -- decreased 7.9% to $45.3 billion compared to the prior year.

There are signs that online revenue is beginning to slow as well. Internet ad revenue in 2007 grew 18.8% to $3.2 billion compared to 2006. In 2006, online ad revenue had soared 31.4% to $2.6 billion. In 2005, it jumped 31.4% to $2 billion.

As newspaper Web sites generate more advertising revenue, the growth rate naturally slows.

The NAA reported that online revenue now represents 7.5% of total newspaper ad revenue in 2007 compared to 5.7% in 2006.

That growth could not stave off the losses in the print however. National print advertising revenue dropped 6.7% to $7 billion last year. Retail slipped 5% to $21 billion. Classified plunged 16.5% to $14.1 billion.

"Even with the near-term challenges posed to print media by a more fragmented information environment and the economic headwinds facing all advertising media, newspapers publishers are continuing to drive strong revenue growth from their increasingly robust Web platforms," John Sturm, president and CEO of the NAA, said in a statement.
*

tom:

STILL an idiot

Tom, are you an attorney?

I will vote YES for the tax swap. I am sick of the Republican "business lobby". If they keep up their racket this will be the first time in my life that I vote Democrat.

The legislature is doing such a great job with the budget this year, let's rely even more on the Sales Tax.

There are some really wealthy rich guys on Palm Beach that can't believe their luck. bush slashed their income taxes, now they're looking at a 40% property tax cut.

Look it up: Rush Limbaugh who got a tax cut of $27,000 in 2007, will get an additional cut of $150,000 under this proposal.

http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/papa/index.htm

Will tourists still want to come with an 8% sales tax?

[Tom]

In one breadth the TBRC, led by John McKay, points out we do not collect tax from a broad spectrum of sources and because of that our tax collections are unpredictable and it is becoming harder and harder to effectively manage the State's budget. So what do you think the TBRC would do? You guessed it! They propose to eliminate a funding source. Yes sir. They propose to eliminate the school property tax included in the RE taxes. Now what happened to the basic premise of the problem with a broad spectrum.............BTW is any tax historically more controllable and stable than RE tax?

[Keynes]

Tom

in addition to being unable to spell or make logical, coherent points, you also fail to understand any aspect of the tax code and how the changing demographics of our state affect it.

Read the EDR's comments over the last several years.

9:06 beat me to it.

not everyone owns a home, but everyone that utilizes our services - roads, police, fire, etc. should pay for it.

Yes, tourists will keep coming even with a 1 or 2 cent sales tax increase because it should be offset from lower cost of good or service based on a reduction of property taxes businesses will have to pay. Of course if the market will bear paying higher prices then so be it all the better.

When this amendment passes we will see just how honest business leaders like Randy "the sky is falling" Miller are being. If prices don't drop to reflect increased taxes the sales tax needs to be increased to the point it does!!!

I bet there is enough additional pricing elasticity in there to increase the sales tax enough to eliminate property taxes.

[Tom]

I know for a fact that sales tax accounts for roughly $20 billion of the State's $70 billion budget. Why concentrate on only 28% of the State's income resources? And anyone that utilizes our services must somehow pay for it. How did they get here? Did they walk here? Did they hitch a ride here? Renters pay for services through rent payments etc. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

[Tom]

What word is misspelled?

Tom - I think you meant breath, not breadth in your 4:45 am post. What in the world were you doing awake at that time anyway?

Tom,

The locals SHOULD be paying more. We use the roads year round, our kids go to the schools, our poor use medicaid

[Tom]

This is what I meant....Breadth: comprehensive quality : scope b: liberality of views or taste

[Tom]

The Majority of businessmen in Florida rent Commercial Property. Commercial Property rental is entirely sales taxable. All the businesses in the Mall pay sales tax on their entire lease payments and that includes their utility bills, common area maintenance etc. Many McDonalds Franchisee's have to rent their properties. car dealers rent their properties. Shell gas station owners rent their properties. What I am getting at is, please don't think for a minute that the regular year round resident is not going to get off easy if this tax swap passes. If you think that the mom and pop small businessman has it hard now, just wait. This proposed tax swap only guarantees one thing. It is a bonanza for snowbirds who own real property.

Tom, you are an idiot! Chicago now has a 10% sales tax. Do you think people will stop going there??? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!

tom

the more you post the more you reveal your lack of knowledge.

the renters of commercial property pay a portion of the property tax via pass thru from the owner of the property.

thus, the pass thru goes down when the owner's property tax goes down.

hey tom your 8th grade english teacher called.

she really needs to talk to you.

[Tom]

Triple net lease. Gross lease. Sales tax is charged on the entire lease payment including CAM. Figure it out. Other operating expenses go up due to sales tax increases. All of these increases get passed down to the guy that lives here year round. Who pays these increases all year round? The tourist? I don't think so. Overall this tax swap is a Snowbirds Dream come true. A bonanza for a RE Broker. You talked about how changing demographics affect taxes and the Budget. What are you going to tell me about eliminating the exemption from use tax on boiler fuels or electricity consumed in the manufacturing process or sales tax on skyboxes?

[Not a Snowbird]

Tom-

you don't know your $%# from a hole in the ground.

Tom sounds like you should get a job with the TBRC. Wait, maybe you already do?

So many wasted words when the answer is quite simple.

Republican Tax Reform = Tax Cuts for the rich. If you're in the top 1% of the income bracket, you can wisely vote for their tax cuts. Otherwise, you are just somebody's dupe.

4:45 If you knew what you were talking about you'd know that the sales tax exemption issue has been a bipartisan effort for many years.

Some people do post at all hours of the night. Maybe they run an escort service.

[Tom]

I enjoy talking to you guys because you have no clue what you are talking about. All you know how to do is call me names. Have you read Chapter 212 FS? Do you have any idea how much sales and use taxes the State collected during the fiscal year ending 2007? Do you know the types of businesses that sales and use tax collections fell off the most comparing FYE 2006 with FYE 2007? You talk about demographics and how it affects the Budget. Well tell me the answers? For the last time, this tax swap hurts most Florida homeowners. Sure we get a break on our school property taxes. The snowbirds get that same break as well. Our children and our grandchildren will still go to schools that will need funding. Snowbirds will not have this issue to contend with. They will sitback and laugh at our unfunded school system and laugh all the way too the bank. In the meantime, us regular homeowners, family people, homesteaders, hardworking everyday, church going folks will pay more in sales taxes every time we go to the grocery store, bakery, restaurant, bar, clothing store, shoe store, hardware store, feed store, second hand store,motor vehicle dealer,auto accessory store, filling station,furniture store, appliance store,office equipment store...the list goes on and on. Do you get it yet? We will do this 365 days of the year while the snowbirds will do it 90 to 120 days of the year. In addition to the above remember what I said as to how the swap will affect the small mom and pop businessman. In no time at all, he will recognize that small dollar savings created by the elimination of school taxes in his real property taxes will in no way offset the burden all the taxes and hidden costs that will be placed on him to make up for the loss in tax revenue needed to fund the school system. Soon the working man will need more money to make a living just to cover this tax swap in order to save the snowbird. I say forget the snowbird, if we need more tax dollars, let's just add a gross receipts tax on RE Broker Fees!

nice try on the "schools won't be funded" garbage. k-12 is held harmless.

everyone knows the "big business" lobbyists are trying to make this about school funding, since none of the other 500 arguments have worked. yes, most of us have read chapter 212, and we know it is riddled with exemptions to help big business at the expense of the "mom and pop" businesses you purport to care about.

so just vote against it and shut up already.

Tom,

Why oh why didn't you make your eloquent plea in front of the TBRC?

Tom won't tell us what he does or where he works because then we'd know why he's ranting and raving so.

[Tom]

There you go again claiming most of us know Chapter 212 FS is riddled with exemptions to help big business at the expense of the "mom and pop" businesses. All rhetoric. Do you work for a snowbird lobbyist group or McKay's office staff, the TBRC? Did I say "schools won't be funded". Talk about the list of exemptions, the list does not say this one is for big business and this one is for little business. The point I would like to make about exemptions now that you brought it up is that once John McKay became a Senator in 1990 the list grew by 105. Today the list has 246 exemptions. From 1990 through 2002, McKay's tenure, 105 exemptions were added! He helped make Advertising tax exempt as well as some kind of cattle feed, skyboxes at high schools and colleges. I am for all of the exemptions that became law through 1960 and any exemption needed to clarify an earlier one written thereafter. Also I agree with the exemptions for boiler fuels and electricity used the manufacturing process, exempting equipment, R & M used in manufacturing and a whole slew of items all of which would help all kinds of businessmen big and small. This is just for starters, so please stop trying to put words in my mouth, you probably can do it to many others, but not me on this subject. You avoided telling me why we are only discussing 28% of the budget. Sales and Use tax accounts for roughly $20 billion of the $70 billion budget. So whats up with the remaining sources of income? You never told me what types of businesses were slowing down or put another way, what sectors of our economy were faltering. You brought up demographics, I didn't. Instead of knocking me this time, give me some substance, something to work with, facts, no more talking points, or are your offices closed for the weekend?

Tom, you apparently have an ax to grind with President McKay that becomes more obvious with every mouth foaming post you make.

The People will have an opportunity to vote on a plan so get over it.

Sore loser.

[native floridian]

on the one hand you have the right wing zealots that only like taxes that pay their salaries and/or can be funneled into their pet religious organizations (like Tom, numerous legislators).

on the other hand you have the business lobby that only likes taxes that other people pay so they can get corporate welfare disguised as "incentives" (like CSX, Scripps, sports teams).

thank you to the TBRC for restoring a small amount of hope for the future of our state.

[truth hurts]

Ouch! Native Floridian is right on!

[Tom]

There you go again name calling. You know nothing about the Budget all you try to do is destroy those people who do! I don't have anything against McKay, I am pointing out what he had his hand in while he was a state senator and what he is trying to do right now. The facts are the facts! Get over it. BTW you still have not offered up anything of substance. And you might want to read Howard Troxler's column today.

Tom,

After this gig's over maybe you can take your brilliance to work on a campaign.

You couldn't pull it off, get over it.

Hey Tom, CSX called. They need a new spokesmodel to help spin their $491 million corporate welfare scheme.

They're especially in trouble with the liability part. You know, the part where the taxpayers assume liability for any accidents CSX causes.

You're the only one who knows how to interpret a statute and all so knock yourself out.

Oh, that's right, it's now $650 million, not 491.

I think tom has some valid points.I checked the website and see that the budget reform group is meeting this week. Tom, will you please share your ideas with them?

Gov Crist is already on board. If the school unions are smart, they will support the tax swap, otherwise we will contantly be attacking property taxes.

We will gut you & local government spending like a pig. Every legislative session will be dominated by property tax relief until we get it!

7:02 - You are right! Failure on the part of the legislature has necessitated the TBRC to address the issue... if what they came up with ultimately doesn't stop, then we go to a 1.35% cap. Until the citizens experience meaningful relief (and yes we all understand that every level of government will need to cut back - that is exactly what we want), we will continue to fight the unions and the fat cats at all levels of government (kinda like Haridopolous kicking and screaminig that this amendment will reduce money he has available IF he becomes speaker - talk about out of touch with the people, you know the dems will attack him next, like the just did Atwater)...

Meaningful relief = less taxes for everyone, an equitable property tax structure, less spending on all levels of government.

I say we keep the education portion of the property tax and cut the rest.

Education should be funded at the state-level like most of the other states in our nation.

I support the tax swap. Good move.