Florida votes irrelevant?

Nearly 1.75-million Democrats voted in Florida's officially meaningless presidential primary, and it remains to be seen whether Florida will send any delegates to the national convention. But in this Twilight Zone of a campaign, a more cosmic question arises: Do the Florida votes actually exist?

In Barack Obama world the answer is no. Clinton's 295,000-vote victory margin in Florida is basically imaginary. The candidates chose not to campaign in the state, the argument goes, so the votes should be purged from the minds of any uncommitted superdelegate.

On planet Hillary Clinton, those Florida votes are as real as the White House itself. We cannot pretend a record turnout of voters never happened. More here.

Comments

Democrats - Yes
Republicans - Only Half

Count Florida’s votes as votes, split Florida’s Delegates 50/50, discount Michigan’s inequitable Primary completely, split Michigan’s Delegates 50/50, fire Howierd Dunce, kick the Republican Consultant (Thrmadrunk) to the curb, and vote every incumbent out of office.

Problem Solved!

It's sad the DNC and Obama will do everything it can do avoid the citizens of Michigan and Florida say in the process. I guarantee if it were North Carolina or Georgia, Obama and his supporters would be crying racist!

and its sad that Clinton will do everything she can to void the pledge she signed and attempt to change the rules after the fact

9:11

Care to comment on Mrs. Clinton's opinions expressed here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W6-ZU-NALaM&feature=related

[Donald Lance]

To the Dems that read this: Why does Screamin' Dean continue to send me letters and surveys when I'm registered as a Libertarian? If Florida doesn't matter to them, why are these solicitations continuously hitting my mailbox? Reading between the lines, they need Florida more than ever if they expect to win in November. This displays poor leadership and organization at the top of your party, and it is for this reason why you will lose the election. If you cannot rule yourselves how can you rule the country? Does Howie actually believe that a Libertarian is going to donate money to the Dems? To me, it shows desparation and that is sad. Your party is in shambles, your candidates are flawed, and your policies are socialist leaning. I wouldn't get your expectations up if I were you.

The rules never said anything it was a pledge to 4 states, not the DNC! And if you want to adhere to the pledge it only states that the delegates will be striped from those states not the popular vote. Also, the credentials committee ALWAYS had the option of including the delegates from FL and MI after the primaries were all finished. and the "Super Delegates" can follow any formula they choose.

But as for me, I will not vote for a candidate that would ever consider not including nearly 4 million american citizens votes, which were certified by the Sec. of State.

Hey Donald Lance, Blow it out your bean hole!

Your Libertarian party doesn't even have a horse in the race. Unless you are going to vote for Bob Barr.

[B. Obama]

No Drama - No Female Candidates.

No Drama - Vote Obama!

Obama wants to split the Florida vote. Doesn't that disenfranchise the 250k+ people that voted for John Edwards. Or the other 50k+ voters that voted for the other five candidates.

Is Sen. Obama's arrogance really just about me and not about my fellow Democrats.

That is not a way to win over a states congressional delegation.

With the Jeremiah Wright controversy & "BitterGate", Obama will lose big to John McCain if he gets the nomination.

He will lose FLORIDA, OHIO, & MISSOURI.

PA MA NJ would also be in play for McCain.

Obama will lose big to McCain in our electoral system. Polls mean nothing because if you lose OH & FL, you will not win the Presidency.
plain & simple Obama can't win

["typical white person"]

Obama is a big racist!!

Get out of our state.

Didn't the pledge only say the candidates will not campaign in Michigan & Florida.

I don't think it said anything about disenfranchising the democratic voters from these states.

McSame is a moron, and will get creamed by either Clinton or Obama. The senile dude needs a freaking teleprompter to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

Enjoy it while it last Lil’ Johnny Napoleon… cause game over in a few months.

We just need someone like Bob Graham to step in and bring both campaigns to the table. He's the elder statesman of the state and as far as I know has no dog in the fight.
Everyone can save face. Obama claims that every votes count and he takes an issue off of the table (which Hillary has very few arguments to hang on too).
Hillary can claim victory in Florida which everyone already knows they won.
And most importantly if they both agree then that will go along way to reducing the bitterness between both sides.
I guess somewhere in there Howard Dean has to be involved too..

[Joe Brown]

When it comes down to it, Florida voted and the votes were certified. Giving Hillary the vote in Florida moves her ahead of Obama in popular vote and bings her total delagate count closer. Obama is contesting seating the delegates because it gives Hillary momentum. Donna Brazile was responsible for the mess with Florida. She decided on August 27th, 2007 not to accept Florida's primary to punish Florida for the treatment her relatives received in the 2004 election. Florida is having a protest rally this weekend to draw attention to their mistreatment once again. The people of Florida are not to blame. The DNC had the chance to ok the primary but let self-centered arrogant people declare the primary invalid. The DNC created this mess, Obama doesn't want to give Hillary anymore momentum. The DNC is willing to let Florida vote Republican again, even though a record number of voters came out and voted. It's a travesty and the DNC, especially Donna Brazile, are responsible. Donna Brazile should have her superdelegate status revoked.

I want my Edwards vote counted.

One of the comments above states that Hillary would be ahead if the popular vote in Florida was counted when in fact she would not be.... She would still be behind. Frankly, if it was counted Hillary would have very little left to hide the fact that her only plan on winning is to win it in a convention fight or through the superdelegates. Why aren't they just honest about that?

Obama is talking about changing the rules, but he is asking the super delegates not to play the role they are suppoesed to in the process.

He agreed to the system when he got into this race and now he doesn't want the super delegates voices heard.

The best is when Clinton people try to make the argument about Obama people not following the rules.
Hillary agreed to not campaign or count Florida due to DNC Rules.
Hillary knows that in this system what constitutes a win is DELEGATES not popular vote
And though it wasn't a rule - Hillary had no problem when superdelegates committed to her before this process even started but now she claims that they must all wait until the election plays out.
AND I agree with the other post above why don't they stop hiding behind all these other false arguments and just admit the only way they can win it is through superdelgates. Why be so ashamed of that if its part of the rules?
They sometimes are just unbelievable.

11:16 you are correct, however with FL and MI she would be ahead in the popular vote. Remember she took the same percentage in MI as she did in FL. But don't forget there are still Eleven primaries left to vote. And Hillary is ahead in all but one!

Also, you should know that if the Dem. primary were like the Rep. primary and all states were winner take all the State delegates... this would be finished and Hillary would be the Nominee by now.

12:00 you are 1/2 right. If either candidate can reach the magic number prior to the convention, then yes it is determined by delegates. However, that is impossible now. So we go to plan B which is a brokered convention and the Super Delegates determine who will be our party's nominee. They can use any formula the like to come to their conclusion.

If they choose to factor in FL and MI(which they should), then Hillary will win hands down.

It would be hard for the Super Delegates to ignor the will 4 million Democrats.

12:07 - assumably a Clinton supporter... would rather have the Republican primary setup because it disenfranchises a large portion of voters???

Don't forget the Super D's can also consider elect-ability. Obama can not win FL or OH (and probably a lot of other large states.) So, he can't win the White House.

Done Deal, we end up with McSame.

Oh you can see ANOTHER Hillary argument which has nothing to do with the rules. "Well if this was like the Republican Primary Hillary would have won!" How many other arguements can be made.
Also as I was "12:00" my only point was why don't they just be honest about the fact that that's their plan.

It has everything to do with the Rules of the DNC (not Obama's rules) pertaining to Super Delegates and a brokered convention.

ANYONE care to comment on Mrs. Clinton's opinions expressed here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W6-ZU-NALaM&feature=related

ANYONE?

Count Florida’s votes as votes, split Florida’s Delegates 50/50, discount Michigan’s inequitable Primary completely, split Michigan’s Delegates 50/50, fire Howierd Dunce, kick the Republican Consultant (Thrmadrunk) to the curb, and vote every incumbent out of office.

Problem Solved!

at least Truck Nutzzz are illegal

[Johnny Bardine]

Adam: I am beginning to find this persistent meme of yours 1) exasperating and 2) uninteresting.
You act like--and persist on misinforming people that--Obama somehow has a nefarious, well-orchestrated plan to disenfranchise Florida voters. This is patently false.
Florida Democrats are complicit in the stripping of the delegates; the DNC said what would happen. All candidates pledged not to campaign here and acquiesced that the delegates would not count. But your continued misstatement of this situation belies either your lack of understanding of electoral politics (disappointing for someone with your job)or blatant bias toward a candidate (unacceptable for someone with your job).

12:24 wrong. Obama, even with "losing" Pa - never was supposed to win that one - he still had more votes than McCain.

Get your facts and quit copying the "Clinton" talking points - unless of course, you are a Rovian Republican stirring up trouble.

[Obvious]

The math is what let's me sleep at night. If we use CNNs number (that are different than RealClear's numbers -- but have Obama worse off) Obama still has the ability to reach 2025 while Hillary does not. There are 725 delegates left. Guam, Indiana, Puerto Rico, Montana, Oregon, North Carolina, South Dakota, Montana, Kentucky, West Virginia, and the Virgin Islands are left. Even if ALL the states are roughly a 50/50 race with Obama taking a few and Hillary taking a few....Obama still has it. Apply that logic to the outstanding superdelegates and cut the remaining 725 in half (we'll even give the extra one we have by not being able to divide it evenly to hillary) Hillary ..... (725/2) + 1586 = 1,948 Obama .... (725/2) + 1719 = 2,081 where i got my numbers: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/scorecard/

If Florida is counted, it would change 'the magic number' of 2025. There is no possible way that adjustment would still result in her victory.

IT IS EVIDENT THAT HILLARY IS DOING THIS TO DESTROY OBAMA'S CHANCES SO SHE CAN RUN AGAINST MCSAME in 4 YEARS. THANKS CLINTONS!

[Michelle Kenoyer]

What Johnny Bardine said upthread is correct. Plus, even if Clinton's votes were to count, she campaigned in Florida AND in Michigan in violation of the DNC rules, whereas Barack Obama has respected the rules and played by them. If anyone's getting an unfair shake in this whole mess, it's Obama.

If the DNC were to give Michigan's and Florida's voters another chance to earn their delegates, the only fair way to handle this would to hold a re-vote and allow all candidates equal time to campaign in Florida. Unluckily, Florida is too broke to hold a revote (I'm not sure about Michigan), so that's not going to happen for us any time soon...

Johnny Bardine, are you unaware that the only Democratic Candidate that campainged and ran ads in FL is Sen. Obama?

Look people, Facts are Facts. Sen. Obama can't win the General Election. Too many white people, don't want to vote for a black man that has been closely associated with known black racists (Rev. Wright & Louis Farrakan.) They, also think that he is a Radical Muslim. I hate to believe that there are so many people in this county that are this ignorant to buy into this. But, there are.
If you think that the Hillary campaign has been hard on him, just wait and see what the GOP and their 527's do to him.

Michael, when did Sen. Clinton campaign in FL or MI?

Sen. Obama spoke at a campaign rally on the FAMU campus on Aug. 25th
www.sptimes.com/2007/08/25/Worldandnation/Obama_s_quest__Turn_s.shtml - 41k -

and ran campaign ads in FL one week prior to the Jan. 29th FL Primary.
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4643356 - 105k -
So, please enlighten me as to when Sen. Clinton ran ads or campaigned prior to the primary?????

[Thomas]

1:55 dunce - the Pledge that HRC and obama signed - it was signed in September.

get your facts straight.

btw - I don't have cable - missed the so-called commercial you speak of.

[B. Obama]

No Drama - No Female Candidates.

No Drama - Vote Obama!

1:48 is a Moron

the problem with Clinton is that she cannot win and everyone knows it except her. Bill must be so pissed about dragging his legacy into this nonsense

The Obama campaign ad ran a "FULL WEEK prior to the primary in FL."

When did Hillary run an ad or campaign in FL?

I'm waiting Michael, Johnny, ANYBODY???

2:24 what a bunch of BS. Did HIllary dodge sniper bullets that week too?

everytime i see Hillary she looks fatter and fatter.

ANYONE care to comment on Mrs. Clinton's opinions expressed here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W6-ZU-NALaM&feature=related

ANYONE?

i've never seen an obama ad broadcast, ever. and i watch a ton of friggin tv.

If an ad is broadcast in Alabama or Georgia, and a Floridian watches it on their TV...

Does that count?

lol @ 2:32.

seriously...Pensacola shares stations with Mobile, Tallahassee with Thomasville and Valdosta, and Jacksonville wth St. Mary and Brunswick.

Did the DNC thus disenfranchise democrats in Alabama and Georgia by denying them the right to hear campaign ads?

[Barbara]

I love math.

PA results:
Huckabee: 90,035
McSame: 576,333
Ron Paul: 125,333
Total GOP votes: 792,211
Total Obama votes:1,030,805

So...Obama received 238,594 more votes than all the Republicans put together.

Let's suppose that 1/2 of Clinton's PA supporters vote for MCCain in the general. Wouldn't Obama still win that state?

ummm Barbara...PA is a closed primary and the GOP nominee was long ago decided.

PERHAPS MAYBE MANY OF THEM JUST, I DONT KNOW, STAYED HOME?

dumb b_itch

The Obama AD ran State wide for a full week one week prior to the Floirda primary.

I love it when Obama supporters try to say that Hillary violated the rules. When in fact it was Obama.

You can say that Hillary is fat, that does not make her unelectable, just more like main stream america. But, the Rev. Wright connection is going to kill Obama with the middle america voters. And the Bull S_hit that the GOP will attack him on.

2:55

care to comment on Mrs. Clinton's opinions expressed here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W6-ZU-NALaM&feature=related

2:55 is a big fat lier. If you are too dense to see that INDY voters DECIDE elections and that Obama will get THEIR votes then you deserve another 4 years of Bush-McCain crapola...but haven't we all suffered enough?

Yes, 3:00 I would,
She said that she had better forsight. There was no rule that said Sen. Obama had to take his name off of the MI Ballot. That was his choice, and as it turns out it was not a very smart choice. The credentials committee always had to option to vote to seat the delegates from MI and FL after all the states held their primaries.

Makes me wonder what kind of decissions he would make in the oval office.

[Barbara]

My Bad...I forgot that a bunch of Ron Paul votes and even some McOld votes will go to Obama in November!

It's the war and the economy, stupid!

3:07 way to totally avoid the quesiton. Care to comment on her remarks that "basically they had an eleciotn that means nothing"

3:07 Maybe you should check out the polling #'s Clinton ahead by 16%pts. in Indiana!

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=d8b46eaa-c463-408e-98d2-b830eb122d39

The DNC decides AFTER all the primaries are held to either include or exclude the states that violated the rules. FDP and the MDP told voters in FL & MI to go to the polls and that they would appeal to the DNC credential committee after the all primary contests. Not only that but, there is NO RULE to strip ALL of the delegates in either State. Only 50% can be striped by the current DNC rules!

3:13

Indiana is an open primary. Did the pollsters bother to ask the party registration of the sampled?

Many Republicans may have answered and many may vote in Indiana

3:21 click on the link and you will see that they polled Dem, Rep and Ind voters as well as broke it down into demographics. Very telling... Also, in just the past 3 weeks the gap has widened Clinton pick up 3 more pts, and Obama dropped 4 pts. went from Clinton up by 9 to Clinton up by 16. Should be a blow out for Clinton

[GreenPartyVoter]

i hate hillary clinton

[GreenPartyVoter]

i hate the buzz too -- what am i doing here?

I hate Ralph Nader!

[Johnny Bardine]

1:48: First, you don't have to use my full name. We're on a first name basis here.
Second, that ad was part of a large, nationwide cable buy that ran only on MSNBC. Prior to doing it, Obama for America consulted with the South Carolina Democratic Party (who, with the other three early states, linked arms and contracted with FL on the no-campaigning pledge) and they said it did not violate the pledge.

Count Florida’s votes as votes, split Florida’s Delegates 50/50, discount Michigan’s inequitable Primary completely, split Michigan’s Delegates 50/50, fire Howierd Dunce, kick the Republican Consultant (Thrmadrunk) to the curb, and vote every incumbent out of office.

Problem Solved!

Johnnie, Obama campaign tried to pull the ad from FL but was told he would have to pull the entire multi-state ad buy. That is when his campaign decided to run the ad in FL along with the other states, which is a direct violation of the 4 state pledge. He had the option of delaying the buy until the primary which was only one week later. I have done many, media buys (and print ads) in my days as a campaign press agent. And changing the date is not a problem. His campaign decided on it's own to violate the pledge!

PS it is just a little too convenient to say well we had already purchased the time slots, and the ad has been in the can for some weeks now... we are running with it. Sorry, but I am very suspicious, that this was the plan in the beginning to get air time in FL "PRIOR" to the primary date.

Ummm Johnnie, I do believe that you are mistaken on the four states approving the CNN media buy that would be aired state wide in FL. It was a multi-state buy, however, it was NEVER even proposed to the 4 state's Democratic Party's. Please refer us to where you happened upon that incorrect information. Also, I remember quite clearly having to disrupt a state wide media buy, on a campaign. I was working for a US Senate campaign, here in FL in 2004 and due the passing of President Reagan, we had to suspend an already paid for media buy that had actually already started airing. We dropped the ad for one week (out of respect)and picked it back up and got credit for the suspension time to use when we resumed campaigning.

[Obvious]

Hillary is the sorest loser of all time. I'm sick and tired of babyboomers thinking they should run this country -- they f'ed us over SOOOOO many times and should sit on the sidelines as we take back this country and restore the basic rights our constitution guarantees. You have to understand they were told to duck and cover to save themselves from a nuke attack; they have been conditioned like lab rats to respond to fear. Look at how many drugs they let themselves get 'prescribed', look at how they arrogantly drove their SUVs as we knew global warming was getting worse and worse, look how the didn't care when NAFTA was signed and our H1B program got out of hand and all of our high paying jobs as well as middle class working jobs were outsourced and offshored. It's hard to place the blame on a beaten and abused child (now grown with their own children and grand children)... and it's even harder when there are so many of them. Hillary isn't a fool and PLAYS to their conditioned behavior. It's sad to see the same tactics that Bush/Rove used so successfully on the masses -- but now we know better. Keep on keeping' on Obama people -- you HAVE to win this fight. For the sake of our country, for the sake of our future...our children's future....the only way we can right the wrongs of the spoiled brats spawned from 'the greatest generation' is to use the system to boot them out. EVERY SINGLE BUSH ENABLER MUST GO...It's a thankless job and they will fight us the whole way-- DO NOT DESPARE. They do not know the evils they propagate or the opportunities they waste; they live in a constant state of fear. Hold your head high and keep on trying. The saving grace is that they will all eventually die...despite our efforts to reform the very same health care system we will put in place that will prolong it. Terry Tempest Williams knew her generation was flawed and so passionately wrote these wise words, "The eyes of the future are looking back at us and they are praying for us to see beyond our own time." Obama people can see it...can you???

My vote is real. I went to the polls and voted for Hillary. My vote exists and it counts for Hillary.

In Oblahblahblah world I apparently do not exist. I guess those who voted for Oblahblahblah do not exist either. Wonder how it feels to be called non-existant by the one you thought was the right choice.

Hillary will take this election and go to the White House. Oblahblahblah can go back to church and this time try to get a real Christian - one who believes in equality, not black supremacy, to be your "spiritual mentor."

[Donald Lance]

Too funny! A house divided cannot stand. Read all the posts if you don't know what I mean.

all i'm saying is at least those offensive truck nutzzz are illegal

god bless florida and no one else

Obama the racist will lose big in November if nominated

[Zhombre]

Obvious @ 8:45 - thanks for the confession of faith. You confirm what I've suspected. Obama supporters are incipient psychopaths. I suspect this time next year you'll be living in a cabin in Montana, writing manifestos and sending letter bombs. This whole messianic/charismatic Obama vibe is truly nuts.

[BB]

I hate to tell you people, but FLorida almost always votes Republican in the national election - so whoever is the candidate, it will make no difference. Our "intelligent" legislature years ago changed the districts to favor Republicans.

If the MI/FL votes are counted, the only fair thing to do is to divide them 50/50 or have a re-vote with the chance to campaign in those states.

[BB]

I also notice that many of you "brave orators????" are afraid to list any names.

Exactly, Obama violated the Michigan/Florida pledge first by running CNN ads in Florida. All bets are off after the violation.

No matter what, Florida's voters made their choice. Count the votes or face the consequences in November.