'Guns-to-work' foes line up their own weapon

Alarmed by passage of a bill allowing people to bring guns to work, opponents on Thursday huddled with a powerful constitutional lawyer and put pressure on Gov. Charlie Crist to veto the measure.

Top business groups have enlisted Barry Richard, one of President Bush's advisers in the Florida vote recount in 2000, to research issues that could provide the basis for a court challenge.

"An argument can be made that it doesn't serve any legitimate public purpose that overcomes private property rights," Richard said of the bill. "... They are saying you have to allow something on your property that could pose a significant hazard." (story here)

Comments

This is a most excellent example of mass suicide by the big, complacent, self-important business interests.

The Legislature passed it. The Governor said he'll sign it. Now Big Business wants to flex their fat...I mean, muscle, and show us who is the real boss.

Why not just spit in the face of our elected officials?

"An argument can be made that it doesn't serve any legitimate public purpose that overcomes private property rights," Richard said of the bill.

What is the public purpose of private property rights?

[THE PEOPLE!]

STOP DIVERTING ATTENTION AWAY FROM YOUR LIES AND FAILURES, AND FIX PROPERTY INSURANCE LIKE YOU PROMISED!

That's constitutional challenge language. The Chamber may tee off on some weaker legislators who voted for this thing, but they won't go after guys like Atwater -- too dangerous.

By hiring a, um, big gun like Barry Richard, the biz folks are pretty much saying, "We'll see you in court."

As a republican, I find it hard to support a business group when they are putting this much effort into a non issue... as I assure you, people with concealed weapons permits are already carrying either on their person or leaving the weapon in their vehicle right now anyway...

thank you, 9:02... reality is what this situation needs.

If we stopped providing corporate welfare for the very same businesses in question we would be able to provide enough police officers to make carrying a weapon for protection unnecessary.

The first fascist freak who tries to break into my truck to see if I have a gun in it… will find out the hard way that I also have a permit to carry one strapped to my ankle.

Tend your own damn business and you wont get hurt!

10:04 step away from the coffee - and the sentiment here is right. If the biz community can rally together for issues, why only this one? why not the kind of things that impact/improve the overall business climate of the state?

[Rick M]

What about our guns?They are our private property and we have a constitutional right to them.Just like my car which I park on their property is my property.

So, lets get this straight.

The Chamber of Illegal Alien Labor wants to present a legal challenge to the ability of Law Abiding American Citizens to exercise their 2nd Amendment Rights but on the other hand they embrace illegal aliens breaking the law.

Okay Randy Miller et al I am done supporting you greedy $*&%^@'&. Lets just go ahead and bust the Republican Party in two and let the Democrats have their way with you.

BANG-O-RANG, 11:05!

[Merikun!]

You cannot protect our borders, you cannot protect my family from gun-toating criminals, you cannot even balance a budget... so as for your plan to take my guns, I say...

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They won't go after Atwater because its too dangerous? Last I checked he's not even a lock to return next year as it is with Campbell in the race.

These legislators should have included the provision that removes any liability for the business if one of their employee's guns that they have in their car is used on their property. Seems fair to me. You want your gun rights, take all the liability that goes with it.

Oh no... the who will I sue person is back...

I can see the headlines now...."mass muder at (fill in the blank location), ...man brought arsenal to work campus and kept it in car". Then the camera cuts to all the politicos wondering what went wrong and all eager to make sure they dont get blamed make sure CNN and all the national media know it was a bill "the Governor of Florida singed and supported". Dont be fooled charlie, this is something you should VETO. Thats what you will be thinking when the tragedies start happening. The NRA is full of hot air and cant affect your popularity and electability, no need to fear them. The peopl however, they are another story, the first tragedy resulting from this willmake any poltician holding the bag, unelectable. Dont fall for this trap. All in the legislature know its the Governors name that will be peddled to the media if and when the first tragedy results.

... until a gun-carrying American came along and popped-off the gun-carrying criminal and prevented even moe death.

Thanks God he had his gun... LEGALLY!

I can see the headlines now....

"Mass muder at (fill in the blank location), ...CRIMINAL refused to abide by the law."

Camera pans to anti-gun wackos in disbelief that CRIMINALS don't follow the law.

But I thought he was a good criminal, you know, the kind that does follow the law.

I swear he is the most law abiding criminal I ever saw... he drove the speed limit, used his turn signals, helped an elderly couple cross the street, all right before he capped a few dozen people in a crowded shopping plaza.

Kudos to the Chamber and business groups for standing up for an issue that their members (ahem - the BUSINESSES that run this state's economy) care about. This IS an issue that the biz community cares about and republicans will be sorry when election season comes around...

This is not good for the Republican party.

Remember Dennis Baxley, Apryl Marie Fogel, Damon Baxley, and Sheri McInvale?

80% of voters disapprove of this bill. The NRA whackos do not represent everydat citizens!

Why do all the pro-gun rights people have a problem taking personal responsibility and any civil liability that comes with carrying their precious guns? You just know that if their gun is used and somebody sues, their lawyers will pull the "deep pocket" business into the suit and try to blame it on them.

11:42 - yeah, I heard the Chamber is going to abandon it's long-held tradition of typically supporting republicans and now will only support democrats...

WE DON'T LIVE IN A ONE-ISSUE SOCIETY - that is why as a republican, I am disappointed that the Chamber is making such a big deal out of this ONE issue, that in the realm of things, addresses nothing... SINCE PEOPLE WITH A CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT ALREADY CARRY... employers just don't know about the LAW-ABIDING Concealed Weapons Permit holders.

11:44 - no problem with pro-gun folks taking responsibility, and just like the choking person who sues the good sameritan who saved their life for breaking a rib or something stupid, there will be no need to worry about who you will sue, because after a couple law suits, us concealed weapons permit holders will stop trying to help defenseless citizens from the CRIMINALS... then, if you survive the attack, you can sue the CRIMINAL...

Time to speak the truth:

What began as a minor political debate has been elevated into an ego brawl by the Chamber who wants to show its collective strength by beating up an older woman with a bad hip, Marion Hammer. And so the big corporations blindly followed the Chamber's foolish jihad, and not content to merely look like idiots when the law passed, they now want to alienate all of Florida government and most of the Republican Party by threatening to file a lawsuit.

Have at it, guys. You can put as much rope as you want around your pencil necks. You'll never be well hung.

"Alcohol Tobacco and firearms shouldn't be a Federal Agency, it should be a convenience store."

11:26 great thast all we need, can see it now, all the "hero" types running to their car and getting their guns and start shooting, now no one knows who the criminal was and people start shooting each other and when the police arrive they have a hudred people with gusn shooting and they have to take themall out as no one knows who started shooting first and who the killer is. That is the more realistic scenario as the truth about what happened and who did what in these shootings usually takes days to figure out. It snot like the police arrive knowing who the good guys are froem he bad and even amongst the well meaning good guys, they have no idea who the killer is so the first person each person interacts with who has a gun gets shot at and hence the disasterous escalation. That is what the likley scenario will be. VETO THIS BILL.

12:17

You're right. Government always knows best and always helps our well-meaning but ultimately stupid citizens. Because a cop is much more likely to properly assess the situation in a split second than, say, the people who work every day with the crazed criminal.

I assume you were in charge of delivering water to the Superdome after Katrina.

Why do you anti-gun wackos think someone who decides to protect themselves will "run to their car" simply to play Dune in real life?

GIVE ME A BREAK...

People who have guns, do so to protect themselves. Quite frankly, a gun in the car at work does nothing to protect someone at work, but if someone were to come after that person in their car, they would be ready to defend...

12:43

Then why is the NRA so opposed to you taking the liability that goes along with it.

I don't care about the NRA and their liability stance... I take full responsibility for my use of my gun... but don't expect me to defend your life... I know you are okay with that, and I am okay with that, so, once again... where is the problem?

The first fascist freak who tries to break into my truck to see if I have a gun in it… will find out the hard way that I also have a permit to carry one strapped to my ankle.

Tend your own damn business and you wont get hurt!

1:05

I've lived a pretty long and full life and have yet found myself in a situation that required anyone to get their gun a draw down on someone to "defend my life". Give me break with your hyperbole and santimonious crap.

First of all you can't say that certain types of business have an exemption from this or any other constitutional law. You won't allow guns in the cars of employees and guests, at certain types of business. However, you force other types of businesses, to allow guns in employees and guests cars. WHAT?

1:09 is the perfect example of who should never have a gun of any kind. This person is a ticking time bomb.

Charlie veto this law! Or put this State through a law suit, that it cannot win, nor afford.

Hey, pinko at 1:47!

The first fascist freak who tries to break into my truck to see if I have a gun in it… will find out the hard way that I also have a permit to carry one strapped to my ankle.

Tend your own damn business and you wont get hurt!

1:50 Maybe Law Enforcement needs to check out your i.p. address (and "yes" LE can do that) to see if you have permits for those guns and if you passed the mental capacity check and background check.

But… lets just say that someone tries to break into your “Truck” and you shoot them. You are looking at a Manslaughter charge and a minimum of 10 to 20 years in a maximum security prison facility. Their families will sue you and take everything you own (including your truck,) as well as have a say at your parole hearings. THIS IS NOT THE WILD WEST.

1:21 - so have I and hopefully will live many more years... and you know what, there is a comfort in knowing that if I need to protect myself, that option will be available to me.

In a round about way, you did answer my question - you have never needed to, and as I have said, I have not needed to, and therefore a gun has never presented itself in our situations... but you know what, my mother has been pulled from her car at gun-point (she now carries)... my wife has been at a store that has been robbed - she is thankful she is still alive, but now wants the ability to protect herself if someone in a similar situation decides to turn the gun on her instead of the cashier.

Save it, you tree hugging, dope smoking freak... an IP address tells LE nothing, so put down the bong, turn off Springer, and get a freaking job you pansyass.

This is America, it's my right, and if your long-haired, hippy freak a*s doesn't like it... move to freaking China or Iraq where you'll fit right in.

You damn punk are ruining this great country.

1:47 - as a concealed weapons permit holder, I support this bill, but I also support your desire for the governor to veto... and you know what... as a concealed weapons permit holder, I will still carry my weapon if the Governor vetos this bill... if not appropriate to bring into the workplace or any other place I chose, I will leave it in my car... because, as a concealed weapons permit holder, I have the right already.

I know the NRA doesn't want businesses to be able to ban folks from having a gun in their car, but quite frankly, it is not the concealed weapons permit holders you need to worry about.

... and by the way...

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... and the donkey you rode in on.

2:23, 2:20 and 1:50 You are not too bright are you.

Profanity and Vulgar Images on the internet are illeagl. And, by tracing your i.p. address, LE can find what computer was used and by whom.

2:30 - I am on the same side of this issue as the poster you cite and I AGREE WITH YOU!

I feel sorry for the GOP legislators on this one - gotta choose between their favorite crooks and their loyal nutcases.

Profanity and Vulgar Images on the internet are illeagl.

... you mean like the multi-billion dollar internet porn industry?

And, by tracing your i.p. address, LE can find what computer was used and by whom...

... and your point is?

Put down the bong and get a job, freak!

I have a job... As a Lawyer and former State Prosecutor!

Me too, as a current FDLE Agent and former Lawyer.

... your point?

I find that hard to believe since you state that YOU HAVE a concealed firearms permit.

790.051 Exemption from licensing requirements:

law enforcement officers are exempt from the licensing and penal provisions of this chapter when action at any time within the scope or course of their official duties or when acting at any time in the line of or performance of duty.

790.052 Carrying concealed firearms; off-duty law enforcement officers;

nothing in this subsection shall be construed to limit the right of a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or correctional probation officer to carry a concealed firearm off duty as a private citizen under the exemption provided in s 790.06

You assume I got it after I went to work in the Law Enforcement arena.

That's why I'm here and you're there.

... dope.

No, I assume that you are a Liar!

You make poor assumptions.

You retired from being an Attorney, to join the FDLE? Seriously... and you think that anyone with a brain in their head would believe you.

You stated that you carry a gun in your "Pick Up Truck" and that you have a concealed weapon to carry on your person as well.

Too funny... I think that an IQ test should also be mandatory when applying for a concealed weapons permit.

Hey no disparaging remarks about pick up trucks, my last pick up truck was $45,000...

And I have a friend who was in biology and decided to become an attorney - and I question his IQ a lot for that decision.

I never said I retired from anything. And my pick up is most likely worth more than your trailer, HP, and subscription to Barely Legal... combined.

[Don Mott]

There are quite a few moronic posts here by people who obviously haven't a clue. The issue is not about keeping a gun in your vehicle, it is about an infringement on property owners rights. If some idiot goes to his car and gets his gun and shoots someone in the property owners building or parking lot because they pi--ed him off who is liable and who is going to be sued? And since you brave souls have a gun locked in your car how exactly do you plan to stop it from happening? The cops would probably be there before you could reach your weapon so get real. I'm 100% behind the peoples right to bear arms but not if it infringes on the rights of a property owner and puts them at risk of a major lawsuit. But Mr Sunshine will probably sign it so let the lawsuits begin. Another waste of tax money spent on state lawyers to try and defend an unconstitutional bill.

Don, get over yourself... the reason concealed weapons permit holders have the permit in the first place is to protect themselves, not have ready access to start a gun battle in downtown (insert city name).

As for lawsuits, I believe the legislation gave immunity to the business owners... but if you are so concerned, you really should focus on who will be liable for the CRIMINAL who comes onto your property and kills someone... and it won't be a concealed weapons permit holder...

How the hell do you know it won't be a concealed weapons permit holder? You get real! In Tallahassee, just last week a Nutcase was arrested for impersonating an officer. He had been doing this for at least a year or two that can be documented. He drove what looked like a police vehicle, carried a flashlight and wore a leg pistol. People who really need to carry a gun (and I believe it is a small percentage) should be able to have a concealed weapons permit. But, should have to go through extensive psycological evaluation and mental strees tests, as well as the normal background check and waiting period.

Everyday when I drive to and from my job, I witness aggressive (boardering on road rage) drivers. And if this bill becomes law I believe that there will be a surge in applications for concealed weapons permits in FL. Alot, because of the media exposure. This could have unthinkable results. People not locking up their vehicles and young children finding a gun and killing themselves or someone else. PMS women, getting cut off in traffic. A drunk leaving happy hour, etc.

Don't recall the person in Tallahassee having a concealed weapons permit... so all we have is a criminal - that is someone who doesn't care about the law.

[Don Mott]

6:11 I don't need to get over myself. I deal in facts. You failed to address the real problem which is property owners constitutional rights. Please help me understand how this law will help licensed gun holders protect themselves? Or anyone else for that matter. Your last sentence is inane, a public property owner usually gets sued when a criminal comes on their property and hurts someone, whether they have a permit or not makes no difference. But my point is that if you own property you have a constitutional right to regulate that property and the government should not be able to tell you how to do so. As I said I am a firm believer of the right to own arms but I also am a firm believer of the right to protect and secure my own property without government interference. Government has no right whatsoever telling me what I can or cannot prohibit or allow on my property, as long as it is legal of course. You are right the legislature gave immunity to business owners, so who will be sued? The state will, so your and my tax dollars will pay for damages and attorney fees. The funniest thing is what employer checks vehicles for firearms anyway? This whole thing is about making the NRA lobbyists feel like they earned their humongous fees so that they will contribute more to the stinking pols while taking away the rights of property owners.

The funny thing Don is that you and I are probably closer on our beliefs of both private property rights and the right to own weapons than this banter would suggest. I think this bill is a total waste of time and money, and the republicans have driven a wedge between their own support groups.

As for how this bill helps someone protect themselves... it allows someone who is licensed to carry a weapon to do so without fear they may be fired from their job for excercising their constitutional rights. I wont get into the argument of where is property rights listed in the constitution... because I am a firm believe in private property rights. However, you state so long as it does not infringe on laws and other rights... which the NRA has argued that some businesses have done just that by firing employees for excersizing their rights to bear arms. I am not a lawyer, but I would guess that there is a fine line of private property rights as they relate to a personal residence - one that is not typically open to or for public purposes, and property that is used for business purposes in which the general public has a right to access (supermarkets for example)...

In my opinion, there was never a problem. People with concealed weapons permits, heck, those even without a permit have been carrying weapons in their cars and will continue to. There may have been a reported case or two about someone being fired for not adhearing to company policy, but quite frankly, that was the employees own fault for opening their mouth. Sounds like those types are not mature enough to have a gun.

As for me knowing if the next person to go nuts being a permit holder or not.... my money is on the side that they are not a permit holder.

The first fascist freak who tries to break into my truck to see if I have a gun in it… will find out the hard way that I also have a permit to carry one strapped to my ankle.

Tend your own damn business and you wont get hurt!

Funny how the guy has to mention where he works, what does that have to do with anything.

[Don Mott]

10:47 You and I agree that this bill is a waste of time and you make some fine points. The point I am trying to make is that once ones constitutional rights to regulate their private property is erased in the slightest way what is to stop more intrusions on their rights. Future rulings might say well it's okay in the parking lot why should it not be okay in the building. Private property is just that, it is private and the government should not be in the business of regulating a property owners rights, period. It is a bad omen when government starts interfering with peoples constitutional rights because they won't stop. See Bush and Cheney.

[Dubya!]

Ok; that's It!... I'm calling Alberto. Oh wait... he doesn't spy on Americans for me anymore... dammit... someone call Dickey!