Mike Hogan performs CPR on tax cap

Under heavy scrutiny, the TABOR-style revenue cap being considered by the Taxation and Budget Reform Commission appeared kaput a week ago.

But no property tax story is complete without a few twists. So perhaps it is no surprise that commissioner Mike Hogan has come up with Plan B: Put the concept on the November ballot and, if voters approve, let the Legislature work out the details.

"It became almost a tar baby of nuts and bolts," Hogan said of the watered down proposal. "Everybody kind of bought into the concept, but to get to the place it needs to be as a very succinct constitutional amendment, it just became unwieldy.

"So what we're doing is we've included some concepts that must be in there then we pass the ball to the Legislature. They put the meat on the skeleton."

The new plan will be discussed Friday. It would need 17 TBRC votes, then 60 percent voter approval in November.

Hogan said his proposal would retain the basic idea of revenue cap that grows by population plus inflation. It would also mandate that "fiscally responsible" counties and cities be shielded in some way and include exclusions for natural disasters.

"But it will say the Legislature shall do this, shall design a revenue cap, and they shall roll it out no later than July 1, 2010." It would be up to lawmakers to decide what revenues are included in the mix, Hogan added.

"There comes a point in time where you've got to retreat, you've got to compromise," Hogan explained, pausing Tuesday evening on Adams Street. "I would really have preferred that we draft this, but because of the inordinate amount of time we've had to spend on this to address this right ...

"If this isn't right, it takes a constitutional amendment to change it. That's always been a burden. I didn't want to be the proponent of something that created hazards for local government."

In a few days we'll know if the effort was worthwhile. If the cap does not make it past the powerful tax panel, House Speaker Marco Rubio is ready to let his chamber take up the idea.

Comments

Imagine the whining coming from Haridopolous if this passes. He won't know what to do with even more reductions in revenue IF he becomes Senate President.

Too bad he didn't take the approach of this as an opportunity, an opportunity to do what is right for the people of Florida.

Which people are you talking about:
The ones with premature babies that we'll just let die?
The ones with cleft palate?
the ones with kids in schools without books?
Or the ones with a boat in the back of their million dollar mansion?

7:40 am - How about if everyone coughs up a fair and equal amount for taxes to help fund these types of programs? You know the ones. Those who are fussing and complaining about people moving into Florida who don't realize who's shouldering the burden of paying for everything? And trust me, there's plenty of things out there that can be cut that wouldn't affect the most important things. While we're at it - there's about 300 million dollars available from those that are bilking the state for their double and triple dipping. If you have any better ideas to make things more equitable and still fund a budget, we are waiting to hear from you... I'm sick and tired of hearing the sob stories and sky is falling rhetoric without any of you proposing anything.

Good one 7:40. That was one strong comment. It really brought out just how strong the pro-life movement is becoming in the socialist welfare party under the leadership of Screamin Dean and Goofy Gelber.

Keep up the good work.

[Buzzard]

Limit government growth.
Cut current government spending to 2000 levels, adjusted for inflation
Slash property taxes
Base property tax on actual current use only
Tax every property
Increase gas taxes
Increase vehicle registration based on weight
Increase sales taxes
Sales tax advertising and legal services
Don't tax food, beer & wine, tobacco products.
Give a tax rebate to every state resident not covered by a pension program.
Give another tax rebate to every state resident not covered by insurance.

Irresponsible TABOR fanatics have ruined other states. Please leave FL alone. GOP will destroy our state before we finally vote them out.

to 7:40 AM
The problem with your statement is that the ones with the boat in the back of their million dollar mansion are already protected by SOH and have hundreds of thousands of dollars sheltered from tax. Our governor's parents are a prime example. Amendment 1 that was approved by our citizens gave them even more protection when they want to move.

You are all forgetting the "real" issue here. Our property tax system is unfair and shifts the burden to first-time home buyers, recent buyers and non-homesteaded properties. By removing the state school tax from the property tax bill, it will give everyone significant relief and some hope for those overburdened the most. Unfortunately, it will not change the inequities in our system. What would be really fair, would be to remove SOH and everyone pays the same based on the market value of their home. Unfortunately, our citizens would never approve the repeal of SOH -- afterall those benefiting the most just approved their SOH subsidy for life when they move and thus approve of the inequities as long as "they don't tax me...tax that man behind the tree."

At least the FTBRC is trying to find a way to give true relief to all. Not a measly $240 a year. Our legislature has proved they are irresponsible with our monies. Certainly they can find a way to fund the important issues and eliminate the waste.

8:57 - hey Bozo - haven't you been reading???? People have proposed reasonable tax REFORMS!!! Just to review - how about taxing sky boxes, charter boats, and race horse feed? How about rasing taxes on cigars and cigarettes? How about bringing back the beverage surcharge tax? How about taxing cosmetic surgery? How about taxing gold, silver and platinum bullion in excess of $500?

How about the Legislature impose the same across the board budget cuts on themselves as they impose on the agencies?

How about these part-time members pay their own health insurance and dental insurance like the majority of full-time state workers have to???????

How about the members giving back their 3% raises, and pay the state back for their weeks vacation in Boston last year?????

10:16 am - I agree 100%

10:18 am - Hey idiot! I agree with those as well. The point is, that anything that makes sense, our pathetic governor and legislature, and let's not forget the people in this state (ie. SOH as noted in 10:16 am's post) will NOT LET IT HAPPEN. So again, for everyone who wants to hand out something to everyone and then some, MY COMMENT WAS TO MAKE EVERYTHING MORE EQUITABLE. The only way to do that is to get rid of the one thing that provides that wonderful ride to some on the backs of so many others.

[Buzzard]

Make it even more equitable. Get rid of property tax altogether and replace with sales tax.

11:18 nice thought, but it will never happen.

It's too difficult to measure sales tax revenue as it is based on consumption -- not to mention can be avoided via internet sales. Property tax revenue is easier to control and the government can take your property if you don't pay.

[Wes]

Another way to cut the budget would be to raise the seniority level from 6 years to a minimum of 10 years for a state employee to become vested in the states fully funded pension program.

[Buzzard]

11:29 - Not too hard to measure a base consumption rate. Everything over that is gravy that can go in an equalizing fund. Internet sales effect negligible for the time being but tax on that not far off. Unfair for property owners to subsidize everyone else.

11:35 - Cut the budget even more. Eliminate pensions altogether and move to 401K's like the rest of us working stiffs.

[Wes]

The state Budget is not dependent on property taxes. Whoever thinks the state budget is dependent on property taxes ought to check their tax bill.

[Tom]

Just think what the SWAP will mean to a snowbird! He will live here all winter enjoying his school property tax relief laughing his way to the bank!

SOH is equitable - it applies to every homesteaded homeowner in Florida. It was not meant to give a tax break to businesses and investors because they are for-profits.

Note to the majority of Florida Voters - it is big business funded tax reform orgs that sponsor these bills and want to take away your SOH - so vote NO!

12:08

If SOH is equitable, then why do we have two homeowners paying a significantly different tax bill for the same value home? It's all based on when they purchased? It is not equitable -- first time home buyers and recent buyers are screwed.

Our citizens made it even more inequitable with the passing of portability, which means even when a homeowner moves, they will be taxed differently based on how much their previous home increased in value.

If you really understood the property tax structure, you would NEVER say it is fair to all homeowners. Do you have a child who will buy their first home some day? Do you think it's fair they pay 2 to 4 times the tax as a long-time homeowner would who might purchase the same home?

[ds]

Gosh 12:08, you're hilarious. No, it's not. But those of you enjoying your handouts will never admit it. Unless of course, you weren't on the receiving end or if your kids wanted to buy a home...

But I'm not going to argue with you over it. Believe what you will. I really don't care.

[Victor Wilhelm Jr]

TABOR is a resounding success in Colorado. Look at the per capita personal income growth (PCPI) immediately ten years before and after TABOR as compared to Florida from the BEA.

In 1990 Florida and Colorado were nearly tied at 18th and 19th in PCPI in the nation.

Ten years after TABOR, 2002, PCPI was 7th in the nation for Colorado and 21st for Florida

In 2005 they did not reject it contrary to the propaganda, they modified the spending cap to be the largest of the five previous years. Since changing this Colorado PCPI plummeted from 7th in the nation to 10th in 2006 and 2007

Voter approval for all new fees and taxes is still in Colorado TABOR.

Spending on education as a percentage of PCPI went down because education spending is not inelastic. If you double you income, does your education expense double, NO.

TABOR is a success in Colorado and the TPA will be a success in Florida only if it is not watered down to be useless.

[Debbie]

Thank you Victor! You can count on the legislators and the media to only give you the negatives relating to any of this! We need more people like you to get the positive out about this.

12:24 SOH is equitable because it treats all homwowners alike. When I bought my home, I began by paying the full assesed value, as did anyone who bought a home before or after I did. My assesment was not allowed to increase by more than 3% per year - the same as all those who bought before or after I did.

I understand that you don't like SOH because the benefits don't apply to businesses and property investors. I believe that's by design, and why the majority of voters support it.

Having said that, let's quit pretending that you are anything but a shill for big business - you want to eliminate my tax break so the govt will have more to shovel your way.

1:12

You are ignoring the points that homeowners now pay significantly different tax bills for the same value of. I am a 17 year homeowner in Florida who moved in 2006 because of a divorce. I pay twice the tax as my neighbors. Portability is no longer available to me and my belief is that portability treats all buyers differently -- no longer are all homeowners treated the same as you say!

1:26 - NO - you lost your previous SOH benefit as did anyone who moved in 2006.
But you will have portability in the aggregate from 2007, if you decide to move in the future as does any other homesteader who does the same.

Its like this. If I placed my money in a bank 20 years ago and let the interest accrue I would have more money than the guy who walked into the bank 2 years ago and has accrued only 2 years of interest. The bank offers the same services to both investors, but because I left my investment there for so long I now have a larger savings balance than the guy who just started 2 years ago.

The guy who just started saving in the bank 2 years ago had 18 previous years of using his money in some other investment way ( like flipping houses and making a tidy profit on the rising real estate market), than the guy who sat quietly on his savings investment for 20 years.

It would make no sense to ask the 20 year saver to give up his accrued benefit because the new investor had not accrued the same amount of benefit.

And, yes, I do expect your kids to start from scratch just like I did and everyone else who only had a year to 2 of SOH early on in our homeownership.

[Buzzard]

Thank you Victor and thank you 2:07. Great posts.

Great post 2:07. Don't be discouraged by the special interest lobbyist crowd here.

Obviously the overwhelming majority of Floridians see great value in SOH even if the development crowd doesn't like not being able to induce neighborhood decline and the resulting increase in development from those having to move out to a nicer place.

The Big Spenders don't like SOH because they see your checkbook as a bottomless pit from which they can dole out to others.

The 2nd homeowners and flippers don't like it because they heard someone else whining and thought it worth their while to join in. If they were really hurting they would be pressuring the Govt at all levels to cut spending. Unfortunately, they are too busy enjoying the great weather andn bragging about all the easy money they make!

[Donald lance]

I quote somebody who knew a bit about taxes. Here is Thomas Jefferson: Considering the general tendency to multiply offices and dependencies and to increase expense to the ultimate term of burden which the citizen can bear, it behooves us to avail ourselves of every occasion which presents itself for taking off the surcharge; that it may never be seen here that, after leaving to labor the smallest portion of its earning on which it can subsist, government shall itself consume the whole residue of what it was instituted to guard.

Jefferson was not just making a speech to please the voters. He followed through. He cut government spending to the bone and even put much of the Navy into drydock. Meanwhile, Treasury receipts from tariffs were growing rapidly with the expanding nation. Lower taxes left the consumer with more money to buy imported goods. Jefferson proved his point. At the end of his term, the government actually had a surplus and had accelerated repayment of the federal debt - all as a result of tariffs alone.

If you people want this tax nightmare to end, I guess it's time to start forming militias & march on the house. Thomas Jefferson encourages this. Does anybody think that these reps in Florida today know more than T.J. did about fair taxation? T.J. took the burden off the taxpayer and ran a surplus by doing it. What do we get today?

For those of you who feel it is necessary to explain, yet again, how SOH 'works' and how logical you believe it to be, please, save your fingers and your breath. It is the most cockeyed excuse for a property tax system ever created. We are all WELL aware how it 'works'. The fact of the matter is, there are some who are huge beneficiaries of it that understand/realize what a complete and utter unequitable system it is. The rest of you will go to your graves believing it is fair and just. Give it up. We really are sick and tired of hearing you try to justify your welfare benefit.

[Victor Wilhelm Jr]

SOH has saved a lot of people from losing their homes in Florida. If it was not for SOH, many people would have lost their homes from out of control government spending.

Even if only "rich" people saved money on SOH, what do you think they do with this savings, pile it in a pool and swim it it? No, they spend it and create jobs.

The SOH argument misses the point and is only a distraction meant to divide the people. SOH would have never been required if we had TABOR or TPA was in Florida 20 years ago.

The disparities are a direct result of government spending that exceeds economic growth. If millage rates were adjusted so that the tax burden did not increase more than inflation, we would not be in this mess. SOH never fixed the core problem of accelerating government expenditures. It only protected people who stayed in their homes creating a disincentive for growth.

Does anyone think these people have the best interests of Fla citizens at heart?

From Florida TaxWatch Website:

OFFICERS
Chairman
David A. Smith, Chairman, CEO and President, PSS World Medical

President & CEO
Dominic M. Calabro, President & Chief Executive Officer, Florida TaxWatch

Chairman-Elect
Martha Barnett, Partner, Holland & Knight

Treasurer
Marshall Criser, III, AT&T

Secretary
Alan Ciamporcero, Verizon

Immediate Past Chairman
Michael A. Jennings, Vice President, Government Relations, Prudential Financial

Chairman Emeritus
Mark C. Hollis, Publix Super Markets, Inc.

EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEMBERS AT LARGE

John Baker, President, Florida Rock Industries
Alan Ciamporcero, President/Southeast Region, Verizon
Rober E. Coker, Senior Vice President, United States Sugar Corporation
Marshall Criser, III, President, Florida, BellSouth
Steve Evans, IBM retired
Robert W. Helms, President, Wachovia of Florida
Martha Korman, President and CEO, National Graphics Imaging
David McIntosh, Chairman, Mit Bank USA, Inc.
Paul Noland, Sr. Vice President, Finance, Planning & Business Development, Walt Disney World Resort
David A. Smith, Chairman, President and CEO, PSS World Medical, Inc.
John Zumwalt, President and CEO, PBS&J

Vote out democrats that are opposing meaningful property tax relief.

YES on tax swap
YES on Taxpayer's Protection Amendment

[freestayhome]

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[tomnoredred]

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[homeminor]

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