'Phooey' -- Troxler trashes TBRC

More tax breaks for a select few in Florida? Making sure that the state can give its tax dollars to the church?

Those are the big ideas for fixing Florida's tax structure?

Well, at least they're among the final ideas of the Taxation and Budget Reform Commission, which meets every 20 years to overhaul Florida's tax system.

Nuts. Phooey. Boo. (More here from columnist Howard Troxler)

Comments

What a waste of Florida's time and money. I thought Alan Bense was supposed to be a genius at leadership - where did it go? Is this what the highly acclaimed former Speaker wanted to happen under his watch? Not much of a legacy . . .

Maybe ther forgot what they were supposed to do and easily slipped into acting like a mini-legislature. That is what happens when people don't read their assignments, just like in my classroom.

Any commission that only meets once every twenty years is somewhat useless anyway. Circumstances and life changes much quicker than that and these kinds of issues should always be reviewed. Not just once every 20 years. If the folks in Tallahassee were actually doing their jobs instead of pandering to the lobbyists and big business, this wouldn't even be necessary.

This reaction is to be expected. Please tell us just how progressive and taxing of the avergage middle class folks the TBRC would have to of been in order to satisfy liberals.

Bense did a great job! It was like herding cats! The problem you have is everyone was serving a different master. In the House and Senate, the member's serve the Speaker or Senate Pres. Our founding fathers had it right when they setup a the executive and legislative branches. The TBRC was flawed before it ever got off the ground. Maybe our system of Government isn't perfect, but it's the best thing going any where in the world! We shouldn't mess with what works. Let's just hope Bense doesn't go away. He's still the only guy we've seen in recent history that does the right things for the right reasons while building a consensus and bringing about meaningful results.

Expecting politicians – especially in Floriduuh – to actually reform Taxation and Budget spending, is like expecting Hannibal Lector to give up meat for Lent.

Oh, and now I will never do business with A Reliable Water Conditioning, Inc.

GET RID OF THE POP UP ADS!

TBRC was just too big, with too many members, to be workable. It's much worse than a county commision.

Look at the resume of a majority of its members - all but two have a vested interested or came from the legislative/government process.

I detest the pop ups. no reliable water for me either

[Tom]

My thoughts on that tax swap idea.
The multiple property owner will really like the tax swap idea. If it passes, he will laugh all the way to the bank and owe a big debt to the members of the TBRC.
The snowbirds will love the swap idea because their ad valorem taxes will decrease significantly and they will only be here 3 to 6 months to pay back some of the increases in sales taxes and fees that the state and local governments are going to have to charge to make up the difference(s) in lost revenues if the tax swap idea passes. Remember that a snowbird does not have to make major purchases here either (cars/boats), when sales taxes and fees go up, the snowbird can determine if it is to his/her advantage to make the purchase out of state or not!
Then there is the upper level year round resident/homeowner who constantly is complaining that his ad valorem taxes are too high and he thinks everyone else ought to chip in and pay his fair share of taxes boo hoo. This guy bought a home with no money down and is mad as heck that everyone on his street has SOH benefits and he does not and that is not fair so everyone else has to suffer.
Finally there are the regular people, what used to be called the middle class. These are the people that will end up paying most of the increases in sales taxes and fees and the majority of increases in prices that retailers will have to charge for their products. The middle class will be making up the difference in lost revenues for the state and local governments while the above will benefit IF the tax swap passes.
So as I am in the middle class, I have absolutely nothing to thank the TBRC for and for any politician that appointed a person to the commission.

Tom, but it is apparent that you are a long term SOH'er who isn't paying their fair share in property taxes...

[Rich]

Tom,

Take out a calculator and do the math yourself. Cut 25% off of your property taxes and multiply that by 100. If you spend lees than that every year on discretionary items then you are saving.

This is great for all homeowners and renters in this state.Tourists will pick up a greater share of our tax burden.

The tourists will pay 35% of these new sales taxes. Not all tourists own a home here by the way.

Just ask Penny for Pinellas how successful they have been in saving property owners in that county additional property taxes.

Hey why no mention of cutting government spending if snowbirds and malcontents don't spend local. Just cut back services or jack up fees. Then snowbirds or malcontents will learn that we can all chip in and work together or we can go about it each person and entity for themselves. But when we do the latter don't complain about prices and reduction in availability of some things.

Sounds like time to retire this commission forever.

[Tom]

Tourists pay taxes today. They pay all kinds of taxes in their hotel bills and they pay sales and use taxes in everything they purchase.
Renters rent will not go down the exact dollar amount the landlord might save in his ad valorem taxes. Remember the landlord will have increasing sales taxes, state and local government fees, loss of exemptions and exclusions and new services taxes! You make it sound simple, but it is not that simple.
The costs of our goods will go up dramatically because business cost of sales will go up. The price(s) we currently pay for everything will have to go up because the retailer has to be the middleman for the changes coming if the tax swap passes, and the retailer will have to pass the changes (new additional costs) down to you and I, the consumer. To boot, we cannot write off the increase in our costs from our federal tax return!
Once the retailers get their new costs and selling prices figured out and we buy our goods and services we will be paying more in sales taxes and be paying sales taxes on items that are not currently sales taxable. The good news is we do get to write off the sales taxes from our federal taxes, but not the fees. whoopie!

[Tom]

Penny for Pinellas is of some interest to me as well, glad you brought it up. The last time the PFP was audited (2004) by the Clerk's Internal Audit Department, PFP was given a poor report at best. You can find the report on Ken Burke's Pinellas County Clerk of the Court website. By examining the pattern of audits the Internal Audit Department handled, to me atleast, the PFP program is well overdue for a follow-up audit. Does anyone know what's up with this? Like there is a large sum of taxpayer money tied up in that program and if you would read the last audit report you would know what I mean that PFP should have been re-audited by now.

[Tom]

Tom is Tom and he is not looking at this swap through a spy glass. I want you guys to think this through because I see your point, but I do not feel your pain.
Finally, I want to remind all those realtors out there and especially those friends of the members of the TBRC, you know the bankers and other brokers and country club people who were worried about the possibility of having a services tax on real estate commissions. Thanks to the TBRC, I hear that real estate commissions are going to be specifically exempted from any future services taxes. Well I am glad for you. I hope all the readers of this post remember that is how the TBRC worked up there in Tally. On one hand the TBRC discussed eliminating exemptions and exclusions and on the other hand it created an exemption.
Well I go to bed every night praying that the Senate add Real Estate Broker Fees and Real Estate Commissions and Stock Commissions to be subject to Gross Receipts Tax. How's that? The Senate did it to Dry Cleaners in 1994, they can easily do it in 2008! We, the citizens of the State are going to need to recover every penny of lost ad valorem taxes if this tax swap idea passes, and I think subjecting the commissions and fees to Gross Receipts tax will be a great starting point.

I agree with the statement in regards to the inequities and SOH. However, what could the TBRC have done to fix that problem? Our legislators made it worse by proposing portability with Amendment 1. Unfortunately, the greed or ignorance of our citizens passed the ridiculous amendment.

4:33 - the TBRC ccould have made the tough decision to address the issue... now, how do you get support for what has become the largest and most expensive entitlement program offered in this state?

Place a cap on total property taxes along with doing away with SOH and limiting growth - most would have benefited under this type of proposal...

or

There is a point in time going back to where a majority of homeowners have moved where they lost their vested SOH benefit (before portability)... require local govt's to roll back rates to that period of time, do away with SOH in it's existing form... and place a more reasonable cap on assessment growth for all properties - say 5%...