Ausman: Looks like half votes for FL Dems

"I think we're moving toward half votes for everybody," DNC member Jon Ausman said of his appeal to be heard Saturday by the DNC's rules and bylaws committee. That would mean superdelegates would have the same vote as pledged delegates.

In other words, Florida Democrats would have the same say in the presidential nominee as Democrats in Guam, American Samoa and the US Virgin Islands.

One question/potential heachache for state party: Should the 211 delegates be seated as is or should delegates election to opened back up to accomodate the Obama campaign, which never fielded a slate of candidates.

Comments

[Donald Lance]

Kind of the opposite of vote early & vote often, don't you think? In 2008, Dems still can't get their voting right. I could teach a chimp how to vote in only 4 years, so what is that saying about the Dem party?

[Donald Lance - Pro Chimp Trainer]

But then, at least the DEMs can field a candidate that will garner more than .0000000001% of the vote, unlike that Libertarian guy...um...er..you know that Libertarian guy. The one with the tanks and the guns.

[Wake the Hell up!]

1/2 the Delegates is exactly what the Republicans did. But the "Liberal" media doesn't seem to want to cover their debacle like they do the Dems debacle... damn that "Liberal" media

Sooooo, I guess that makes the Republicans chimps as well, aye, Don?

[Donald Lance]

Jr. Label Maker! How nice of you to show up for your daily bizzitch slap from me! You see, since we began this little tussle of the minds (granted it's been one-sided in my favor) you have done your research on the libertarian party. So I'm happy I could get at least one Barry moth to open their eyes. But I see you still just looked at the pics vs. reading because the Libertarians don't invade countries under false pretenses. Have you ever read Curious George before?

[Tallytowngal]

Why the hell should the DNC be allowed to penalize the FL and MI Democrats at all? The reading of the law (DNC bylaws section) pertaining to volations by individual States. Says that each state has the right to correct the violation by holding a new Primary election at the end of the Primary Process of all other States and so long as they could raise the money to hold these later Primaries.

This was an option that was agreed to by the Clinton Campaign as well as the FDP and MDP. And the donors were lined up to fund these revotes.

However the Obama campaign did not agree, to allow these new elections.

SO, from my reading of this rule, it is a clear violation of the DNC to not make the Obama campaign comply or at least to stop them from preventing such a revote in these two States.

The DNC clearly did not understand the responsibility they had in resolving the voting rights of these two States and in so, have violated there own rule.

Jon, I am interested in your opinion of my above statement.

[Cynical Idealist]

Please get rid of the KB Home pop-up....

Are you SPT staffers aware when we click on "preview" it takes us to the KB Home ad?

Not good work on the part of your IT staff, nor does it make me want to continue adding my "eyeballs" to your "unique user" totals...

Any comments from the bloggers?

I've taken to making a list of companies I will never do business with. For me, this concept works in reverse.

[Donald Lance]

4:20. Like treehouse foods?

OK… let me take you dipsticks through this s l o w l y…

Clinton did not move FL and MI Primaries up.

Obama did not move FL and MI Primaries up.

Therefore, blaming either of them for disenfranchising voters is ignorant and shill-ish at best.

However, Obama has not exploited the debacle nor pretend that he did not sign the pledge. On the other hand, Clinton signed the pledge, has exploited it, and now pretends to care. NOW, she wants Puerto Rico votes to count as well. I expect she’ll soon call for Canada’s votes to count.

That clinched it for me. We had 8-years of a self-serving, vindictive liar in the White House, and we do not need another.

[Donald Lance]

4:27. I agree with you that we don't need to go through any more years of Clinton or Bush. But we cannot live thru 4 years of Barry. The stock market WILL crash under him and we will be shackled by an upswell of attacks on our interests because Barry is a pu55y who will not have the testicular fortitude to defend this country.

4:27 How old are you? Do you know your history?

Puero Rico has been voting in the Democratic Primary's since they became a US Territory. This is the first year that their vote could make a difference.

Obama won the Virgin Islands, I didn't hear him say they shouldn't count.

They split Guam, nothing about them not counting from Obama.

He just got back from campaigning in Puerto Rico. Never said anything about them not counting.

It is only his baby supporters that complain if he is losing in a state or territory. "Boohoo, not fair. We want to win and if we can't then we don't want those places that we lost in to count."

YO; DINK... aka: 4:36... they don't vote in the General.

You freaking Hillary Hags crack me up!

Vote for McSame or we’ll all die by January ’09!

Hey; it worked in ’04!

[Donald Lance]

jr. Label Maker, if you haven't finished reading Curious George yet, I doubt you could ever make it through this - from barry's website:

http://obama.senate.gov/press/080213-obama_hagel_can_1/

4:49 typed: "4:36... they don't vote in the General."

I see you haven't learned how to read!Typical Obama voter, young and dumb.

from post by 4:36:

"Puero Rico has been voting in the Democratic Primary's since they became a US Territory."

Anyone that starts out their post with:

"YO; DINK..."

Is either not old enough or smart enough to vote.

[Gayle in Oregon]

It's refreshing to read some posts from adults....the Ben Smith blog on Politico attracts the young goofing off, angry, students? I dont how they have time to blog all day, day after day? I also can't figure out why they are so angry since they obviously are not working their butts off, or working or studying at all. Maybe they are paid by the Obama money machine? Hmmm...Many youthful Obama supporters seem to be more personality cult followers than thinkers. Maybe that is because they are cutting all their classes to blog all day or not working but rather are blogging between computer game? Too much 'virtual reality' and no reality? Me, I raised a family, invested money for early retirement and worked for 40 years and still work 1/2 time self employed. I think I earned the right to have this fun. Most exciting election I have ever seen! Major history in the making! Yeee....Haw! What a ride! Hang in there Hillary! :-)

[Tallytowngal]

I am so tired of people condoning the Disenfranchisement of Legal Registered Voters in two very important states. The arguement is that "Rules are Rules" and FL and MI Broke those rules. Well actually the FL and MI Dems (i.e. the voters and the state party's) did not break the rules. The Legislatures in both states (both with a Rep. Majority)caused us to break the rules.

The DNC rules state that "Any State in violation of the Primary calendar has the option to hold a New Primary after the all other states have held their primary's." (Basically, moving you into last place.)

The State Party and or Campaigns must, however, raise the money to conduct such a re-vote. If for any reason the DNC denied allowing a state to hold such a re-vote election then the DNC has violated it's own rule.

The Rules and Bylaws Committee always had the option of including these two states, per their original Primary dates and results, as well.

They shall meet after the end of the Primary's and prior to the convention if requested by any candidate or State that Appeals to them for a decission.

So, yes "Rules are Rules". Problem is... most people are unaware of the extent of and circumstances of the actual rules.

[Christopher London]

CLINTON FRAUD, DECEIT & MANIPULATION should not allow FLORIDA to over turn the legitimate votes of the rest of the United States of America. Those of you deceived by the CLINTON BS EXPRESS are likely the same people to foolish to see that Hillary's campaign is using the same exact tactics that BUSH/CHENEY and the NEOCONS did in 2000 to railroad Al Gore. AMERICA NEEDS A COLONIC to cleanse itself of Clinton's old politics andto flush out the political fecal matter from the bowels of our democracy.

[scj, anytown, usa]

The DNC must come up with a compromise. Anything else is un-democratic. What about the "voters" who did not vote in January specifically because they were told their votes would not count?

The primaries that were held against DNC rules (agreed upon, and drafted, by Ickes, Clinton, etc.) were not, well, fair.

Still, this is a mess, and the voters voices deserve a delegate seating.

A compromise is the only way. The half-a vote seems okay, but not perfect.

[scj, anytown, usa]

Also, if this isn't resolved this weekend, boy are we Democrats in trouble!

Both campaigns must be willing to agree to a compromise. If not, you can thank them for mucking up our General Election chances.

It is time to unite -- not un-tie -- if we have any hope of winning in November.

Christopher, what have you been smoking? How is fighting to count the votes of citizens the same as, fighting to deny the votes of citizens?

Democracy is a form of government under which the power to alter the laws and structures of government lies, ultimately, with the citizenry. Under such a system, legislative decisions are made by the people themselves or by representatives who act through the consent of the people, as enforced by elections and the rule of law.

[David]

Adam Smith, you are not correct when you say that the Democrats' delegates in Guam, American Samoa and US Virgin Islands get half-votes. Only the delegates for Democrats Abroad (a organization representing U.S. citizens living overseas) get half votes. All other Democratic delegates get full votes, including those in Guam, American Samoa and the US Virgin Islands.

You know what is really scary?

That these "NEW Democrats" that support Sen. Obama in this Primary. Have no regard for the rule of our Democracy, which is the very principle of our party.

They are not Democrats and should form their own party.

[Scott]

Blaming Florida and Michigan on the Obama campaign is absurd.

The DNC penalized Florida and Michigan, and all of the candidates agreed to the penalty.

In fact, if you stopped distorting history, you would know that the Clinton camp was most in favor of the penalty. Robert Novak wrote a column in November of last year in which Hillary campaign officials suggested that the penalty would effectively freeze Obama out, eliminating his chance to get any momentum prior to Super Tuesday, where Senator Clinton decided that she would sweep and wrap up the nomination.

So cut out your whining--it is unprincipled and your complaints couldn't be further from the truth.

[Steven]

Did somebody really just post that they don't want "new democrats" in their party that has only one two of the last seven presidential elections!?!
I support Obama, and I do so as an independent.
If Hillary was truly concerned about the votes of Michigan and Florida she would have done something about it early on, rather than signing a pledge not to campaign there. One of her main campaign people was on the rules committee that took away the votes.
As a voter who is truly not tied to one party or the other, it's amazing to me that democrats talk with such anger towards a democratic candidate who clearly supports liberal views on every substantive issue...
It would be difficult to form a new "common sense" party under our current two party system, but if somebody wants to form it I'll happily join!

[Gayle in Oregon]

To posted by May 27, 2008 at 7:07. Great explation. I wish I could have said it so precisely. The voters are "the most important element here". Some of them have filed suit agianst the DNC. I hope they go all the way. Sadly, the Democratic Natonal Committee does not deserve to continue if its not DEMOCRATIC, duh! Or at least it should change its name to the UN-Democratic National Party. Then let us real Democrats get down to the business of voting AND COUNTING the votes..............and how about all of them this time? Punishing the voters for the ineptitude of a few politians is so undemocratic it make me laugh when I think about it. What kind of hold does Obama have on Dean, Donna Brazille, Pelosi and the gang that they seem to have lost their minds like this? Or is it as simple as my Rebublican business friends think? Simply they think the Clintons are too powerful as a team and the gang won't get to play with as many of what they see as their toys when Hillary is elected? Could it be that Pelosi is simply jelous of Hillary's potential power because she wants the White House for herself? Not so hard to believe when I think that they are just people, but, different, they are the power loving kind. Does it boil down to being just all about power?

[Marcus]

>Problem is... most people are unaware of the extent of and circumstances of the actual rules.>

Au contraire. In fact, Dem turnout for the non-binding primaries in FL and MI were SIGNIFICANTLY down from levels seen in other states this year. Why is that? It's a fair assumption that it had something to do with the fact that all but the most clueless voters in knew that according to DNC rules, their votes wouldn't count. If your vote won't count, why bother showing up? Yeah, SOME voters did, but not nearly in the proportional numbers as seen in the states whose votes or caucus-goers knew that their participation would matter.

That being the case, both of these two states are spoiled goods to begin with. Short of having a full revote, all you can do is seat them in whatever proportion you want, but split the vote evenly. Clinton gets her little victory, it makes no difference to the whole race, and we can all get on with our lives.

Hey we did pretty well with out these "New Democrats" for generations. They are the ones that we depended on election after election. And they didn't turn out the vote for us. I say screw'em. Look out what demographics are a sure bet in the General Elections. Guess what? The lowest turnout numbers are... African Americans and the Youth vote. The ones that are sure bets to turnout the vote... Women, Hispanics and Seniors.

And the same votes as Florida Republicans, right?

[zenator]

Humpty Dumpty has already experienced his great fall.

In case you missed it, the DNC told the voters of Michigan and Florida in advance of their primaries that their votes would count for nothing. The Dem candidates then added the exclamation point by pledging not to campaign in either state.

It helps not at all for the DNC to now come forward after the election and tell the Dem voters, especially those that stayed home, that "we lied to you when we told you that your votes wouldn't count."

This is the political equivalent of the scene in Animal House, where Flounder is told: "You F**ked up, you trusted us..."

[Steven]

Losing 5 out of 7 presidential elections is considered doing well? The only presidential elections that democrats won was when they had turnout from the youth and African American vote. Seniors eventually die, so some in the democratic party may consider it important to lure "new democrats".

Where were all you Hillary Hags in January? HUH... HUH... HUH?

Now, shut the hell up, get back in the damn kitchen and make me a sandwich.

[Barbara]

It's absolutely amazing that so many Hillary supporters don't even know that it was Hillary's people who insisted on increasing the usual punishment of half delegates to total disenfranchisement.

Yet you're all weeping and gnashing your teeth because you've been fed a line of BS that it's Obama's fault those votes haven't counted. Yet.

They'll be seated, but there will be punsihment for order in the party.

Yes, they'll take it back to the rules they had before Hillary forced the change.

Meanwhile, maybe some of you should educate yourself.

Hey Barbara, care to cite where you get you misinformation?
The Hillary and Obama campaigns, both sent out emails as well a mail-outs to campaign supporters to go to the polls and vote on Jan. 29th. Both stated, that they FDP would appeal to the credentials committee to seat our delegations. Karen Thurman and the FDP did the same. Stupidy is not an excuse for not voting!

[Tallytowngal]

Hillary forced the change? What? Barbara, seriously, where do you get this stuff? You and Christopher must have been sharing the bong. Read the Rules and Bylaws of the DNC. Then you can grasp the fact that you are illinformed and delusional.

Tallytowngal = GOP Staffer.

[brad]

Adam Smith said, "In other words, Florida Democrats would have3 the same say in the presidential nominee as Democrats from Guam, American Somoa and the US Virgin Islands."

Odd that he fails to mention that the Republican Party's votes were cut in half as well . . .

If you notice, Mr. Smith takes every shot he can at Obama - it is in almost every single thing that he writes. It is extremely frustrating and disappointing, especially since I like the St. Pete Times so much more than the Tampa Tribune - maybe I need a break from Adam "Hillary is my babe" Smith . . .

Adam is a Hillary shill.

[George]

As a loyal Republican, I have to say I've enjoyed watching democRats beat up on fellow dems. You guys are so fractured at this stage that my boy John McCain is going to steal this election, hands down.

Its so funny. Each side thinks they are real democrats.

Keep it up losers. McCain's going to win and once he's in there the SCOTUS will be ours and watch Roe V. Wade go out the window. And you'll only have yourselves to blame.

[Curious George]

I'm curious to see if the Iraqi people will care if we invent an excuse to bomb them to hell, and then walk in and annex their oil wells.

[Curious George]

I'm curious to see if young people will remember me fondly if I spend all their tax money before they're even born.

[Curious George]

I'm curious to see if the people of New Orleans can tread water longer than they did last time.

[Curious George]

I'm curious to know what you're saying about me and my pals. Mind if I listen in?

[Maria]

Hillary won Florida. She should get Florida's delegates. The democrats need to count every vote. If they do not do this then they deserved what happened in the RECOUNT movie. The Democrats will be just as bad as the GOP and will not be trusted by us who vote if Hillary is not given her fair delegates.

[LaKeisha Chestnut]

I hate to say it, but Florida knew this primary wasn't going to count. I have the proof right in my email box. It's amazing what a little research can do for you. The DNC gave FL the chance to make it right and they didn't. What makes it so bad, there is a video on YouTube that shows how much an "effort" the State Legislature made. I didn't see Sen. Obama nor Sen. Clinton in the background. Hillary thought she was the nominee. She acted as such, and when Obama started winning, she wanted to count FL and MI. So please don't give me this line of BS. Because I know the truth. It's in a folder called "Florida's Mistake".

[LaKeisha Chestnut]

I hate to say it, but Florida knew this primary wasn't going to count. I have the proof right in my email box. It's amazing what a little research can do for you. The DNC gave FL the chance to make it right and they didn't. What makes it so bad, there is a video on YouTube that shows how much an "effort" the State Legislature made. I didn't see Sen. Obama nor Sen. Clinton in the background. Hillary thought she was the nominee. She acted as such, and when Obama started winning, she wanted to count FL and MI. So please don't give me this line of BS. Because I know the truth. It's in a folder called "Florida's Mistake".

[Karin]

I have a sincere question to those who feel that the Michigan and Florida voters will have been disenfranchised if the results of their unofficial election were not counted.

The turnout at the "beauty contest" Democratic Primaries in both states was considerably below the levels of turnout seen in other states this year. What would you say to those people who believed Howard Dean and the DNC when they said that these votes would not be valid and therefore elected not to vote because their vote was not considered valid? What would you say to the voters of Michigan, who were faced not only with this problem, but also with the fact that the only candidates whose names were on the ballot there were Clint, Dodd and Kucinich? If I were a Michigan Obama supporter prevented from casting a ballot for him even in a beauty contest race, or a Florida voter who stayed home because I believed my party leaders, aren't I also being disenfranchised? How would you assuage MY anger?

[Insane]

You FLA screamers deserve the punishment and it's insulting to the rest of us that you think the rules should now be changed, after the fact. As much as I hate the GOP, at least your Republican neighbors had the decency to live with the rules (maybe they learned their lesson from 2000)?

Praise de lawd, praise de lawd. De massahs has decided we'z half oh a person.

Tank Gawd dat the Democratic Party iz de party of civil rights!

[Donald Lance]

In 2001, the Woods Fund, a Chicago-based nonprofit that describes itself as a group helping the disadvantaged, provided a $40,000 grant to the Arab American Action Network, or AAAN, for which Khalidi's wife, Mona, serves as president. The Fund provided a second grant to the AAAN for $35,000 in 2002.

Obama was a director of the Woods Fund board from 1999 to Dec. 11, 2002, according to the Fund's website.

In Barry's words, "Judge me by what I've done".

"Judge me by what I've done".

Fair enough, Donny… I therefore judge you to be an Ill-informed Delusional Indignant Opposition Tool… otherwise known as an idiot.

… what a freaking dink

[Donald Lance]

Thanks 8:59! You enlightened me. At first, I thought doing research on candidates was the intelligent thing to do, but you proved me wrong. I didn't know trying to get learned about the candidates made me an idiot. I'm certain to vote for Barry now because I won't have to learn anymore. He'll tell me everything I need to know. Again, thanks for showing me the path to enlightenment.

[Riddler]

You’re very welcome, Donny… you see; I’d dig the cut of your jib if it weren’t so clearly biased. You start the thread ok, what with the whole “libertarian” line… then shortly thereafter, your true biased loyalties emerge.

Riddle me this batman… Who are we fighting in Iraq?

[Donald Lance]

If facts are biased, then I'm really going to vote for Barry. He is going to turn everything I know upside down and backward and teach me the Wright way (speaking of biased...)
Concerning your riddle, the list is long. But you riddle me this. How can you vote for somebody who wants to turn this country into a Socialist state? Do you need the govt to do everything for you since your fragile, little, egg-shell mind can't generate enough thought to actually succeed at something that makes you money without handing it over to the govt?

Ahahah… you’re slipping again, Donny. Focus now… Who are we fighting in Iraq?

… and btw, if turning everything your boy George has done upside down is a bad thing… then I guess I’m as bad as 78% of America.

[Riddler]

Donny?

[Riddler]

Tsktsktsk… mymymy… leave it to logic to flesh out the blog snipers. It amazes me how you folks can even wipe yourself without a palm card.

You disappoint so, Donny… and I had so hoped you were for real.

Riddle me this batman; How does the naked one hide the truth?

Answer: By ducking out of sight.

[Donald Lance]

No Joker, I just had to make some money there, something your parents probably never taught you how to do. Maybe you were too stoned in high-school before you dropped out to apply anything being taught to you. I mean, if Marvel Comics 101 counts as a class in your mind, then I understand that your problem is a lack of critical thinking skills, so I'd probably vote for Barry if I were in your shoes as well.

[Riddler]

Wellwellwell… Donny has returned, and I see from your post that the latest talking points memo fax hasn’t hit your desk yet. Shall we try again?

Riddle me this batman: Who are we fighting in Iraq?

I thought I heard the fax machine start up. Donald went to check it.

Love,

The dope who shares a cubicle with Donald

[Riddler]

Donny?

[Donald Lance]

Ok Joker, I'll bite. We are fighting nobody over there. It's just to protect the American companies who are trying to set up shop over there and entrench themselves into the Iraqi economy before we pull out. Did you ever think of that Joker? Probably not. Did GWB kill 4k Americans? No, they volunteered to fight and knew what the risks were going into it (See Pat Tillman).
Now you riddle me this. Why do you want to vote for a Socialist when history has proved, time and again, that it doesn't work?

Barry a Socialist? Why, he's sounding more and more like Fidel everyday!!!

[Donald Lance]

Joker? Joker? Did your boss take your keyboard away?

I thought Barry was proud of his black heritage and we should be proud of him for "how far" he has come as a black man. If so, why does he only talk about the White side of his family?

[Donald Lance]

Joker? Joker? Are you trying to find something creative to say from your Captain America comic book? Generate a unique thought now, Joker!

[Donald Lance]

Joker? Joker? Did somebody tell you to clock out for lunch at a certain time and be back at a certain time? Nothing like working for the man eh Joker? Maybe you should have paid more attention in your youth? maybe you should learn from those lessons and pay attention now?
I have to go swimming with my son now Joker. His school(private)is out for the summer so I will be entertaining him poolside while somebody tells you what to do. That's the coldest slap you could ever get - having to work while I'm at play.

[Donald Lance]

By the way, isn't a half vote kind of like a dangling chad?

[Riddler]

Are you done, Donny?

You haven't answered my question, Donny. And I grow weary of debating intellect, when you are clearly unarmed.

When you wish to discuss substantive matter, you let me know.

McSame a facist? Why, he's sounding more and more like Hitler everyday!!!

[Donald Lance]

Joker, see 12:13. That's right! You can only learn by looking at pictures! So much for your reading skills also. Try to answer my question and I'll slap ya again when I get out of the pool!

[Riddler]

Your game is up Donny boy, stick with your son in the pool... he's more to your level of intelect.

Hmmmm, that’s four shills so far this week… exposed for the hacks they are by a simple, logical, and honest question for which they have no training to respond… Donny of course being the latest. That brings this week’s running total to:

Riddler – 4

Shills – 0

Riddle me this batman: Why does the perfectly good puppet lay motionless on the stage?

Answer: Because someone has cut the Puppet Master’s strings.

[Donald Lance]

Yes I will stick with my son because I don't want him to grow up and think like Barry! Why won't YOU answer my question Joker? I answered yours, yet you say I didn't.
BTW, a perfectly good puppet does not have cut strings. Even your jokes don't make any sense.

so when the democrats gonna file suit that independents can't vote in primaries? because even dems have some people smart enough to realize a party primary vote is not the same as a gneral election vote

and donald lance - STF up geez! you're worse than the girl I broke up with that won't stay away

[Doanald Lance - BDS]

Blog Derangement Syndrome

Okay Riddler, if you're so superior-- what's your answer? Seems to me Donald answered your question. Guess you missed it because you're straining so hard trying to pretend that you're clever. I enjoy Donald's posts. I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but I see that he actually researches the candidates and issues. And that's more than I can say about so many voters who blindly follow their candidates.

4:17 here again-- and btw, I don't even know Donald. It's just refreshing to read posts from someone who isn't regurgitating campaign talking points from any camp.