On and off the Amendment 5 bandwagon

In a roundtable discussion with business owners at the mansion Tuesday, Gov. Charlie Crist listened a lot, and for the second straight day promoted Amendment 5 on the November ballot to give business people much-needed relief. Amendment 5 is the so-called tax swap that will eliminate property taxes for education (about 25 percent of a tax bill) while holding schools harmless and requiring the Legislature to come up with billions of dollars a year in replacement money.

One of Crist's mansion guests was Chuck Bonfiglio, president of the Florida Association of Realtors, the largest interest group backing the proposal. "It's kind of an across the board tax relief for everyone," the real estate agent told Crist. "We see it as one of the most far-reaching tax reform initiatives this state has ever seen."

Also on the couch in the mansion were leaders of two other major business groups: the Florida Home Builders Association, which has not taken a stand on Amendment 5, and the Florida Chamber of Commerce, which strongly opposes it. To reporters afterward, the Chamber's Mark Wilson said: "We all agree we want lower property taxes. Where our concern is is where are we going to make that up? Are we going to cut funding by $11-billion? Are we going to need a personal income tax?"

No way, Crist said in response, reminding reporters a personal income tax is specifically barred by the Florida Constitution.   

Comments

[Bob Graham]

Charlie Christ 2nd worst governor of the state of Florida

Jeb Bush FIRST WORST GOVERNOR OF FLA

[Issywise]

Shifting support of schools from property taxes to sales taxes is a bad idea because sales tax revenue is WAY too volatile for school planning.

The real estate industry would like to attract sales not by lower their prices but by weakening the duty of every new resident to pay his own way.

The Chamber of Commerce would endorse force feeding snakes to babies is some of its members believed they could make a marginal profit by doing so.

What's wrong with Florida's tax code is that it has wandered too far away from the principle that all should stand equal before the law. Florida's tax code is a hodge podge of special interest exemptions vended out to favored constituents by pandering politicians who've thrown over simple American values like "equal treatment" and "all men created equal" in favor or "whatever gets me ahead is OK."

Let's pray the voters shoved this damnable idea right down our leaders throats rather than count the pennies it will save some and divide us into different classes who see themselves as either winners and losers as a result of government tax policy.

So Charlie supports the $10 billion tax cut, but doesn't have a plan to replace the revenue.

I guess we can just shutter the universities and disband DCF.

How many dead kids does it take to save me $100 on my property taxes?

[Bryan]

This amendment is a horrible idea. While I would love to see my property taxes go down, I don't want to see it happen at the expense of the public education system. We already have one of the worst educational systems in the country. Are we really going to delude ourselves into thinking that our do-nothing legislature will step to the plate and replace this funding?

Oops, someone provide Gov. Crist with a copy of our constitution. Florida can get an income tax with just a 2/3 vote.

This says we get an income tax with just a 3/5 vote of the Florida Legislature.

SECTION 5. Estate, inheritance and income taxes.--

(b) OTHERS. No tax upon the income of residents and citizens other than natural persons shall be levied by the state, or under its authority, in excess of 5% of net income, as defined by law, or at such greater rate as is authorized by a three-fifths (3/5) vote of the membership of each house of the legislature or as will provide for the state the maximum amount which may be allowed to be credited against income taxes levied by the United States and other states. There shall be exempt from taxation not less than five thousand dollars ($5,000) of the excess of net income subject to tax over the maximum amount allowed to be credited against income taxes levied by the United States and other states.

A new state tax needs a two-thirds vote - Article XI Florida Constitution.

With Crist's support we should be able to raise the tax revenue needed if Amendment 5 passes.

That's for corporations

To reporters afterward, the Chamber's Mark Wilson said: "We all agree we want lower property taxes. Where our concern is is where are we going to make that up? Are we going to cut funding by $11-billion? Are we going to need a personal income tax?"

translation - we have already invested too much in the weenie Haridopolous to change our tune.

They oppose it because of what they don't know... do your job and lobby once this passes to make sure there is no incomce tax or services tax if that is your concern... but to publically oppose something that is good for businesses - yes, their taxes will drop as well - and residents because of it is crazy.

[Lord Foul's Bane]

A pox on both their houses.

Amendment 5 will do zero to help Florida's economy anytime soon. The major change, which is the tax swap, doesn't take effect until 2010. Does anyone anticipate that tons of people plan to rush out and buy property because their tax bill is going to go down in 2010? Or do you think that most reasonable people will wait to see how much further real estate values slide and wait to see if the credit crunch eases before they go on some spending spree?

Clearly the realtors are delusional. They reaped the profits when the market was out of control, now they expect the state to bail them out after the rocket ran out of gas and thudded back to the earth.

But the Chamber needs to be zapped as well, because they helped create this policy by steadfastly refusing to enact meaningful tax reform.

Instead of getting a plan that is balanced and cognizant of the 21st Century economy, the voters have been handed a witches brew to drink that in the end will ruin either the state's economy, the tattered remains of the safety net, or the education system, or maybe all three in one fell swoop.

The Chamber hasn't represented their members' interests in years. Amendment 1 did zip for samll businesses. They let it go at the 11th hour to kiss Charlie's b_utt

who is the dirty hippy in the tie dye to the left of the photo??

Amendment 5 is good. It will pass. If we don't pass it, schools will have about half the money to use because values are going way down. We need another venue to fund schools. If we don't make the legislature cut pork projects and find another way to fund education our schools will be closing down right and left. The teachers UNION is against it. We teachers are FOR it!PLEASE do not confuse the teachers union with teachers. I am voting for it because I need the cut in my taxes because the union would rather pocket the money and make bad deals in my name than give me a pay raise. The school board is the same way.

The people of Florida must vote on any change to the constitution. Now tell me--- do you really think the people of Florida would vote for a state income tax? OF COURSE NOT!! Quit twisting the truth. The people MUST vote to have a state income tax even if the legislature would vote to put it on the ballot and that would NEVER happen in a million years! You are out of your mind even suggesting it could happen. Nothing but a bunch of fibs trying to scare the citizens.

That would be none other than Rick Flagg. He's got a face for radio!

Rick Flagg is an American original (except for the Michael Jackson glove thing).

2:21 -

and when it comes time to cut when the values continue to erode, they'll cut teachers and classes instead of the bloated administrators and their perks.

Come on people THINK! We are in this mess due to out of control spending and no one wastes more money then the school system. If you took all the money wasted on fuel to bus every kid all around Pinellas county and used it for teacher pay raises, cut back on school board members and waste there would lots of money. The schools and state will never spend wisely until the money flow stops. If you had your income cut I bet you'd change your spending habits but would still survive and the state and schools need to do the same. the Republicans call Dems tax and spend. So what is going on in Florida with the Repubs in charge. Tax and spend and spend and spend. get real. Amendment 5 is a tax break so take it while you can. If you vote no then our great and noble leaders might say Hey the morons don't even want a tax break so lets forget about it. The services the state wants to tax are used only by the rich for the most part. How often do you need a lawyer or cpa?

I know I will vote for Amendm. 5

25-40% property tax relief is a must since our property taxes are one of the highest in the nation.

[Power to the Peeps]

Yes on 5

Hey 11:25 you don't have to be part of the problem with DCF funding. Get the address for DCF HQ and send them your $100. Otherwise the rest of us don't want to hear it anymore. We are stretched to take care of our own families and have no problem whatsoever with the notion of others being responsible for themselves and THEIR children/family members.

Bedwetting liberals dependent on using the government to steal from the working people are about to get the kick in the A_ _ they needed years ago. The suckling population is about to tumble in Florida.

[Paul D. Harvill]

The Taxation and Budget De-Reform Commission.

[Tomas Real]

Amendment 5 is about what is the best way to finance government, property tax or sales. Let’s compare the two.

Ownership is a simple concept. It means you don’t have to pay anyone to keep it. You may own your shirt and your pants but property tax obviously makes the American Dream of Owning a home a lie.
Property tax is classical extortion an overwhelming force” the government" is threatening to throw the people out of their homes. Property tax makes the people the servants of government. After all since when does a servant have the right to throw the owner out of his house?

However, threatening to throw families in the street leads to a high rate of tax compliance. This is appealing to bureaucrats because it makes their job easier.

Property tax is the most regressive of all taxes and must be paid even if you have no income.

Sales tax is the antithesis of property tax in that it gives people their LIBERTY. No one threatens to take anything from you; no one threatens to take your home. You have the freedom of choice to do what you want with your money. Once you pay for something it belongs to you.

Sales tax requires government submit to the economic will of the people and makes government into an economic DEMOCRACY.

Property tax requires the people submit to the economic will of the government and makes government into an economic DICTATORSHIP.

With sale tax government must put their faith in the liberty of the people.
With property the people must put their faith in the power of government.

Sales tax gives people their liberty
Property tax makes people the servants of government.

A vote for amendment 5 is a vote for freedom
A vote against amendment 5 is a vote to take our freedom away.

YES!!!!! On amendment 5