Scoring the second debate

Trying to regain some momentum for his lagging presidential campaign, John McCain used an often combative presidential debate Tuesday night to try painting Barack Obama as a big government liberal, sure to raise taxes.

Obama appeared unruffled by McCain's attacks and repeatedly stressed his focus on middle class Americans. (story here)

Comments

McCain is more of the same

Obama will bring change

AP: Palin stretches truth in campaign speeches
By BETH FOUHY - 1 hour ago
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) - Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin tells audiences the election is about the "truthfulness and judgment" needed to be president. But the Alaska governor often stretches the truth herself.
She has exaggerated the nature of Barack Obama's personal ties to a former 1960s radical and falsely claimed the Democratic presidential candidate plans to raise most people's taxes.
On Tuesday, she tried rebutting the Illinois senator's criticisms of Republican presidential candidate John McCain over health care and Social Security. She said Obama was misleading and wrong, but she herself told less than the full story.
To be sure, most of Palin's assertions about Obama echo claims McCain himself has made or lines from Republican TV ads.
At a rally Tuesday, Palin tried to link Obama to the failure of housing giant Fannie Mae by noting that two Obama supporters once led the troubled company. The government seized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, another housing finance company, last month to prevent their collapse from worsening the global credit crisis.
"What's next, claiming that he didn't know two of his biggest supporters were running Fannie Mae, the subprime mortgage giant?" Palin said. "That has done harm to the American economy."
She referred to Jim Johnson, who chaired Fannie Mae from 1991-1998, and Franklin Raines, his successor who stepped down in 2004 in an accounting scandal.
But Palin exaggerated Obama's ties to Raines and Johnson while omitting any mention of a closer relationship between a top McCain aide and the failed housing giants.
Raines and Johnson support Obama but do not have strong ties to him or his campaign. Johnson briefly headed Obama's vice presidential search last spring but resigned amid controversy over loans he got with help from an executive of Countrywide Financial Corp., a lender damaged by the mortgage meltdown.
Meanwhile, until August, Freddie Mac paid $15,000 a month to a lobbying firm headed by McCain campaign manager Rick Davis. The payment came on top of more than $30,000 a month Davis was paid directly by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from 2000-2005 to head the Homeownership Alliance, an advocacy group.
Davis has not taken any compensation from his lobbying firm since 2006, the McCain campaign said.
Palin has made other questionable assertions:
_She suggests Obama was disrespectful of U.S. soldiers when he said U.S. troops in Afghanistan were just "air-raiding villages and killing civilians."
The partial quote is misleading. The Illinois senator said once, in August 2007, when pressing to send more troops to Afghanistan: "We've got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops" so they aren't just "air-raiding villages and killing civilians."
Shortly before his comment, an Associated Press analysis showed that more civilians in Afghanistan had been killed by Western forces than by militants.
_Her claim that Obama would raise most people's taxes. "The phoniest claim in a campaign that's full of them is that Barack Obama is going to cut your taxes," she tells supporters.
Obama has promised a tax cut for those making less than $250,000 per year - about 90 percent of all taxpayers. Only those making over $250,000 would get tax increases under Obama's proposal.
McCain has pledged not to raise any taxes.
At a fundraiser Tuesday, Palin also pushed back against an Obama TV ad suggesting McCain's health care plan would force employers to drop coverage for millions.
"Every middle class American family will have a $5,000 credit, tax credit, to buy the health care coverage that you choose and Barack Obama's calling that a tax," Palin said. "I don't know how he can capture this and spin it into being a tax on Americans. No, it is a credit."
In fact, McCain's plan would tax health care benefits people receive from employers in order to finance the $5,000 tax credit. Obama's ads argue the new tax would raise the cost of insurance for employers, forcing millions off the rolls.
In the journal Health Affairs, economists projected McCain's plan would lead 20 million people to lose employer-sponsored insurance, while 21 million people would gain coverage through the individual market.
The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center found McCain's tax credit would be more generous than the current tax break initially but could fall behind in later years. The center also found his plan would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years.
Palin also defended McCain against an Obama campaign TV ad on Social Security that began running last month in Florida and elsewhere. The ad says McCain supported Bush's plan to privatize Social Security and claims McCain supports cutting Social Security benefits in half and "risking Social Security on the stock market."
Palin disputed that.
"We will protect the retirement programs that Americans depend on, above all Social Security," Palin said. "No presidential election cycle is complete ... without the Democratic candidate coming down here to Florida especially and trying to stir up fear and panic on this issue of Social Security."
McCain did support Bush's unsuccessful Social Security plan to allow current workers to voluntarily divert some of their Social Security taxes into private stock accounts. Now, McCain says "nothing is off the table" in ensuring the soundness of the program. But none of what McCain supported would apply to current Social Security recipients.
The benefit cut comes from a separate Bush provision that would have changed how benefits keep up with inflation; independent analysts concluded this change could cut benefits by 50 percent for higher income beneficiaries who retire in 2080.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccains_and_council_for_world_freedom.php
Forget Ayers. McCain Served On Advisory Board Of Whacked Out Council For World Freedom
By Greg Sargent and Eric Kleefeld - October 7, 2008, 5:46PM
In a much discussed story, the Associated Press reported today that John McCain served in the mid-1980s on the advisory board of a right-wing group called the Council for World Freedom, which has been controversial because of the group's aid to the Nicaraguan Contras and the presence of anti-Semites in its ranks.
Now we've gotten a hold of another fun little nugget that shows how whacked out this group really is: A newsletter from the group from July 1985 that lashed out at people who criticized Ronald Reagan for visiting the Bitburg cemetery in Germany, which includes the graves of members of the SS.
The Reagan visit was widely controversial among Jews, but the Council newsletter -- hich you can view right here -- was less than charitable towards Reagan's Jewish critics.
"Those misguided souls who accused President Reagan of insensitivity for visiting the German cemetery at Bitburg are wallowing in tears of pity over the past crimes of the Nazi regime which collapsed over 40 years ago," the newsletter said. "They claim they want to keep the memory of the holocaust alive so that it can never happen again."
"Crocodile tears! It is happening again," the newsletter continues, "and again, and again, right now, in the modern world; only the crimes of today are not being perpetrated by the Nazis but by their philosophical and demoniacal soulmates, the communists."
McCain reportedly was still associating with the group a few months later: A States News Service article from October 15, 1985, found via Nexis, confirms that McCain was on hand at a Council awards dinner.
McCain told the AP that he resigned the group's advisory board in 1984, and eventually asked to have his name removed from the letterhead. But the State News Service article places him at a group dinner a year later.
The reason this is worth noting is that John McCain has been attacking Barack Obama over Obama's minor ties to former 60s radical Bill Ayers -- putting associations like these into play.
The group was founded by Ret. General John Singlaub, as a U.S. chapter of the World Anti-Communist League -- which itself had a history as a home for anti-Semites and former Nazi collaborators. In his defense, Singlaub worked to clean up that element somewhat. On the other hand, the the group continued to aid right-wing death squads that freely attacked civilians in the bloody Nicaraguan civil war.
The Contra's activities were so brutal that Congress passed the Boland Amendments in the early 80s to specifically forbid the federal government from aiding them -- which led to the Iran-Contra affair and Oliver North's efforts to circumvent the law.

[NObama'08]

Honestly, I think they are BOTH babbling....anyone else?

9:23

didn't have a major role???!!

One is an economic advisor and the other chaired the VP search!

Obama's answers tonight to borrow from Sargent Schultz:

"I no nothing!"

[Susan S]

9:33 PM,
Wrong! "One" is not an economic advisor, and vetting VP candidates has nothing to do with the financial crisis. Snopes is your friend.

McCain is losing with the CNN audience.

[Ayers is a republican]

Tom Brocaw is booooring. Obama is kicking butt tonight. Mccain looks old and cranky. His left eye is blinking wierdly too. Whats that about?

[Sad sack]

Tom Brocaw is in the tank for Mccain. His questions favor him and he will not let Obama respond. What a loser. Doesnt matter though cause Mccain sounds tired and old and creepy. Obama looks good.

[george]

Mccain is blabbing way over his time all night. Obama gives one long answer about energy and Brokaw calls him on it reminds them about the stupid lights. Brokaw makes me sick. Too bad for you Tom that Obama is cool and intelligent and winning.

Can McCain not see the lights that indicate his time is over?

He needs to pull out his glasses.

[Bev]

Mccain needed a knockout tonight and he isnt getting it. This format is terrible. The "debate" is boring and useless. Why bother with these things? Therefore it will be scored on style. Obama has the youth, the style and the class. I wish I could feel sorry for Mccain, but he is too mean to feel sorry for.

[Grandpa]

Hey racists, your grandpa is getting his butt kicked tonight by your next president. I feel good.

most overused word of the night

fundamental (ly)

Obama how did you win the nomination?

Health care is now a right?

Nope

This is the second debate where Obama has said he wants people who serve in the peace corps to have the same benefits as those who serve in the military. Is that outrageous to anyone else?

[Grandpa]

Mccain makes fun of Biden while he is burying his mother in law. This is one of his best friends, what a jerk. Biden talks all the time how he loves Mccain and that they have been friends for 30 years. No class whatsover.

obama plan
hope for the great depression #2 and focus on the negatives
all while giving every black 1 million each for slavery reparations

[Bev]

Yes. Healthcare is a right in every civilized country in the world. What country do you want to live in? One that throws sick kids in the street cause they are poor or one that treats its citizens with respect and dignity. Health care is a right now. It is illegal to turn criticaly ill patients away. But we can do better.

[Bev]

Stop with the racists comments. You are slime. Hurtful and sick comments demean your candidate and you.

obama would love to have his terrorist allies attack the us tomorrow, more negatives

the truth always hurts most bev
drive down to south st pete at noon or to Nebraska ave in tampa and look around at all the obama supporters drinking malt liquor. NOT AT WORK, errr if you call slinging rock work then they are
dont go before noon cause all are asleep

the differnce in these 2 men is their difference in philosophy/ideology

Big government socialism versus free market capitalism

Obama's syrupy sweet answers in this debate have not provided solutions. Obama is not a leader or a visionary; he is a eloquent empty suit liberal.

Obama=Jimmy Carter II

[Bev]

Again you do your candidate harm. You are poison. Thank God you are in the minority. You make me ashamed that there are still people out there like you.

[margie faciana]

Obama is right on. He is answering the questions given to him. Senator McCain goes all over the place with his answers. I can't keep up with him. Can you imagine a leader of a foreign power trying to keep up?

[Florida Voter]

Poor Tom. His boring format and trying to help Mccain didnt work. Obama is wiping the floor with Mcranky Mccain. Obama gave much better answers and looked presidential. Obama outclassed him. He looked cranky and sounded condescending the whole night. Yeah we want 4 more years of that.

Despite being an Obama supporter, I actually felt that McCain understood these issues better and I feel like I would be safer with a McCain admin. in times of war.

CNN is so in the tank for obama, MSNBC is in the tank for obama, FOX is in the tank for McCain, where can I see honest discussion from people with objective voices?

So, is McCain going to pay off my mortgage or just the mortgage of those who bought too much house?

That is the last straw for me I am just going to sit this one out because I don't like either of these to Bailout Socialists.

I would score the debate a tie.

Obama will give us everything we want, right? McCain is more of the same, right?

I must not be watching the same debate. I don't think either was great but I would give a small bump to McCain.

Did McCain let slip a racial slander by pointing at and referring to Obama as "that one!'

[Susan S]

10:36 PM,
Obama supporter? Yeah, right.

JOHN MCCAIN CLEARLY WON TONIGHT. HE LOOKED PRESIDENTIAL AND HAD SPECIFIC SOLUTIONS AND ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.

OBAMA KEPT TRYING TO ANSWER IN GENERALIZATION DESPITE THE QUESTIONERS ASKING FOR SPECIFICS.

McCain was clearly the better candidate.

[Florida Voter]

Oh sorry my republican friends, the insta polls have a knockout for Obama. It wasnt even close. Mccain was nasty, nasty and nasty. He ran off the stage in a huff while Obama is still out there shaking hands with the crowd. He does not have the temperment to be President.

[Grandpa]

This was a great night for Obama. Mccain could not hide his anger and temper. Now I see why they question his temper. He is like a little baby and does not have the maturity to be president. Happy days are here again....

"..that one..."

Refused to shake his hand.

Classy that McCain is.

Can't wait to hear what Joe Biden says tomorrow morning at the USF SunDome about tonight's "debate".

Can't wait.

Welcome to Tampa Joe Biden!

CNN instant poll of people who watched the debate clearly shows that Obama won . . . again. Someone get the fat lady's voice warmed up.

Like most of the commentators I've heard after the debate, I think McCain won the economic portion of the debate handily. He had solutions & most important specifics. Obama kept trying to spin talking points without going to specifics even when directly asked for them.
I guess he was trying to play it safe, thus I give McCain the win on the debate on points.

FoxNews poll shows McCain won debate handily.

Drudge Report polls show McCain winner too.

Dearest 10:36 PM,

You are cracking me up! And you sounded just as sincere as the weird wandering old guy.

Would you people stop with the polls. They are all bias. That is why every debate so far have

Obama/Biden winning on CBS CNN polls

&

McCain winning on Fox News & Drudge polls.

THE ONLY POLL THAT MATTERS IS ON NOV 5TH

[Chuck Froster]

Obama won. McCrazy finally admitted that we have a crisis. Flip flop McErratic has to go.

REPUBLICANS FOR OBAMA!

"obama didn't have to be good" why not? Why is obama judged on a lower level? He can handle himself without people giving obama a pass, I dont' think it serves anyone well to say "obama doesn't haven't do well in the debate" the truth is he did well and he has to do well.

The only loser is the moderator TOM BROKAW. He stunk, by putting the same questions that have already been answer from previous debate.

What a waste of a debate. The whole night was a repeat of debate 1.

Oh my, I hope Pakistan doesn't team up with the enemy and try to come after us. Obama doesn't get it.

John McCain won easily. He had real answers. Obama didn't answer questions all night. He refused to go to specifics despite being asked.

McCain won the night.