Scoring the second debate

Trying to regain some momentum for his lagging presidential campaign, John McCain used an often combative presidential debate Tuesday night to try painting Barack Obama as a big government liberal, sure to raise taxes.

Obama appeared unruffled by McCain's attacks and repeatedly stressed his focus on middle class Americans. (story here)

Comments

McCain is more of the same

Obama will bring change

AP: Palin stretches truth in campaign speeches
By BETH FOUHY - 1 hour ago
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) - Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin tells audiences the election is about the "truthfulness and judgment" needed to be president. But the Alaska governor often stretches the truth herself.
She has exaggerated the nature of Barack Obama's personal ties to a former 1960s radical and falsely claimed the Democratic presidential candidate plans to raise most people's taxes.
On Tuesday, she tried rebutting the Illinois senator's criticisms of Republican presidential candidate John McCain over health care and Social Security. She said Obama was misleading and wrong, but she herself told less than the full story.
To be sure, most of Palin's assertions about Obama echo claims McCain himself has made or lines from Republican TV ads.
At a rally Tuesday, Palin tried to link Obama to the failure of housing giant Fannie Mae by noting that two Obama supporters once led the troubled company. The government seized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, another housing finance company, last month to prevent their collapse from worsening the global credit crisis.
"What's next, claiming that he didn't know two of his biggest supporters were running Fannie Mae, the subprime mortgage giant?" Palin said. "That has done harm to the American economy."
She referred to Jim Johnson, who chaired Fannie Mae from 1991-1998, and Franklin Raines, his successor who stepped down in 2004 in an accounting scandal.
But Palin exaggerated Obama's ties to Raines and Johnson while omitting any mention of a closer relationship between a top McCain aide and the failed housing giants.
Raines and Johnson support Obama but do not have strong ties to him or his campaign. Johnson briefly headed Obama's vice presidential search last spring but resigned amid controversy over loans he got with help from an executive of Countrywide Financial Corp., a lender damaged by the mortgage meltdown.
Meanwhile, until August, Freddie Mac paid $15,000 a month to a lobbying firm headed by McCain campaign manager Rick Davis. The payment came on top of more than $30,000 a month Davis was paid directly by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from 2000-2005 to head the Homeownership Alliance, an advocacy group.
Davis has not taken any compensation from his lobbying firm since 2006, the McCain campaign said.
Palin has made other questionable assertions:
_She suggests Obama was disrespectful of U.S. soldiers when he said U.S. troops in Afghanistan were just "air-raiding villages and killing civilians."
The partial quote is misleading. The Illinois senator said once, in August 2007, when pressing to send more troops to Afghanistan: "We've got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops" so they aren't just "air-raiding villages and killing civilians."
Shortly before his comment, an Associated Press analysis showed that more civilians in Afghanistan had been killed by Western forces than by militants.
_Her claim that Obama would raise most people's taxes. "The phoniest claim in a campaign that's full of them is that Barack Obama is going to cut your taxes," she tells supporters.
Obama has promised a tax cut for those making less than $250,000 per year - about 90 percent of all taxpayers. Only those making over $250,000 would get tax increases under Obama's proposal.
McCain has pledged not to raise any taxes.
At a fundraiser Tuesday, Palin also pushed back against an Obama TV ad suggesting McCain's health care plan would force employers to drop coverage for millions.
"Every middle class American family will have a $5,000 credit, tax credit, to buy the health care coverage that you choose and Barack Obama's calling that a tax," Palin said. "I don't know how he can capture this and spin it into being a tax on Americans. No, it is a credit."
In fact, McCain's plan would tax health care benefits people receive from employers in order to finance the $5,000 tax credit. Obama's ads argue the new tax would raise the cost of insurance for employers, forcing millions off the rolls.
In the journal Health Affairs, economists projected McCain's plan would lead 20 million people to lose employer-sponsored insurance, while 21 million people would gain coverage through the individual market.
The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center found McCain's tax credit would be more generous than the current tax break initially but could fall behind in later years. The center also found his plan would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years.
Palin also defended McCain against an Obama campaign TV ad on Social Security that began running last month in Florida and elsewhere. The ad says McCain supported Bush's plan to privatize Social Security and claims McCain supports cutting Social Security benefits in half and "risking Social Security on the stock market."
Palin disputed that.
"We will protect the retirement programs that Americans depend on, above all Social Security," Palin said. "No presidential election cycle is complete ... without the Democratic candidate coming down here to Florida especially and trying to stir up fear and panic on this issue of Social Security."
McCain did support Bush's unsuccessful Social Security plan to allow current workers to voluntarily divert some of their Social Security taxes into private stock accounts. Now, McCain says "nothing is off the table" in ensuring the soundness of the program. But none of what McCain supported would apply to current Social Security recipients.
The benefit cut comes from a separate Bush provision that would have changed how benefits keep up with inflation; independent analysts concluded this change could cut benefits by 50 percent for higher income beneficiaries who retire in 2080.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccains_and_council_for_world_freedom.php
Forget Ayers. McCain Served On Advisory Board Of Whacked Out Council For World Freedom
By Greg Sargent and Eric Kleefeld - October 7, 2008, 5:46PM
In a much discussed story, the Associated Press reported today that John McCain served in the mid-1980s on the advisory board of a right-wing group called the Council for World Freedom, which has been controversial because of the group's aid to the Nicaraguan Contras and the presence of anti-Semites in its ranks.
Now we've gotten a hold of another fun little nugget that shows how whacked out this group really is: A newsletter from the group from July 1985 that lashed out at people who criticized Ronald Reagan for visiting the Bitburg cemetery in Germany, which includes the graves of members of the SS.
The Reagan visit was widely controversial among Jews, but the Council newsletter -- hich you can view right here -- was less than charitable towards Reagan's Jewish critics.
"Those misguided souls who accused President Reagan of insensitivity for visiting the German cemetery at Bitburg are wallowing in tears of pity over the past crimes of the Nazi regime which collapsed over 40 years ago," the newsletter said. "They claim they want to keep the memory of the holocaust alive so that it can never happen again."
"Crocodile tears! It is happening again," the newsletter continues, "and again, and again, right now, in the modern world; only the crimes of today are not being perpetrated by the Nazis but by their philosophical and demoniacal soulmates, the communists."
McCain reportedly was still associating with the group a few months later: A States News Service article from October 15, 1985, found via Nexis, confirms that McCain was on hand at a Council awards dinner.
McCain told the AP that he resigned the group's advisory board in 1984, and eventually asked to have his name removed from the letterhead. But the State News Service article places him at a group dinner a year later.
The reason this is worth noting is that John McCain has been attacking Barack Obama over Obama's minor ties to former 60s radical Bill Ayers -- putting associations like these into play.
The group was founded by Ret. General John Singlaub, as a U.S. chapter of the World Anti-Communist League -- which itself had a history as a home for anti-Semites and former Nazi collaborators. In his defense, Singlaub worked to clean up that element somewhat. On the other hand, the the group continued to aid right-wing death squads that freely attacked civilians in the bloody Nicaraguan civil war.
The Contra's activities were so brutal that Congress passed the Boland Amendments in the early 80s to specifically forbid the federal government from aiding them -- which led to the Iran-Contra affair and Oliver North's efforts to circumvent the law.

[NObama'08]

Honestly, I think they are BOTH babbling....anyone else?

9:23

didn't have a major role???!!

One is an economic advisor and the other chaired the VP search!

Obama's answers tonight to borrow from Sargent Schultz:

"I no nothing!"

[Susan S]

9:33 PM,
Wrong! "One" is not an economic advisor, and vetting VP candidates has nothing to do with the financial crisis. Snopes is your friend.

McCain is losing with the CNN audience.

[Ayers is a republican]

Tom Brocaw is booooring. Obama is kicking butt tonight. Mccain looks old and cranky. His left eye is blinking wierdly too. Whats that about?

[Sad sack]

Tom Brocaw is in the tank for Mccain. His questions favor him and he will not let Obama respond. What a loser. Doesnt matter though cause Mccain sounds tired and old and creepy. Obama looks good.

[george]

Mccain is blabbing way over his time all night. Obama gives one long answer about energy and Brokaw calls him on it reminds them about the stupid lights. Brokaw makes me sick. Too bad for you Tom that Obama is cool and intelligent and winning.

Can McCain not see the lights that indicate his time is over?

He needs to pull out his glasses.

[Bev]

Mccain needed a knockout tonight and he isnt getting it. This format is terrible. The "debate" is boring and useless. Why bother with these things? Therefore it will be scored on style. Obama has the youth, the style and the class. I wish I could feel sorry for Mccain, but he is too mean to feel sorry for.

[Grandpa]

Hey racists, your grandpa is getting his butt kicked tonight by your next president. I feel good.

most overused word of the night

fundamental (ly)

Obama how did you win the nomination?

Health care is now a right?

Nope

This is the second debate where Obama has said he wants people who serve in the peace corps to have the same benefits as those who serve in the military. Is that outrageous to anyone else?

[Grandpa]

Mccain makes fun of Biden while he is burying his mother in law. This is one of his best friends, what a jerk. Biden talks all the time how he loves Mccain and that they have been friends for 30 years. No class whatsover.

obama plan
hope for the great depression #2 and focus on the negatives
all while giving every black 1 million each for slavery reparations

[Bev]

Yes. Healthcare is a right in every civilized country in the world. What country do you want to live in? One that throws sick kids in the street cause they are poor or one that treats its citizens with respect and dignity. Health care is a right now. It is illegal to turn criticaly ill patients away. But we can do better.

[Bev]

Stop with the racists comments. You are slime. Hurtful and sick comments demean your candidate and you.

obama would love to have his terrorist allies attack the us tomorrow, more negatives

the truth always hurts most bev
drive down to south st pete at noon or to Nebraska ave in tampa and look around at all the obama supporters drinking malt liquor. NOT AT WORK, errr if you call slinging rock work then they are
dont go before noon cause all are asleep

the differnce in these 2 men is their difference in philosophy/ideology

Big government socialism versus free market capitalism

Obama's syrupy sweet answers in this debate have not provided solutions. Obama is not a leader or a visionary; he is a eloquent empty suit liberal.

Obama=Jimmy Carter II

[Bev]

Again you do your candidate harm. You are poison. Thank God you are in the minority. You make me ashamed that there are still people out there like you.

[margie faciana]

Obama is right on. He is answering the questions given to him. Senator McCain goes all over the place with his answers. I can't keep up with him. Can you imagine a leader of a foreign power trying to keep up?

[Florida Voter]

Poor Tom. His boring format and trying to help Mccain didnt work. Obama is wiping the floor with Mcranky Mccain. Obama gave much better answers and looked presidential. Obama outclassed him. He looked cranky and sounded condescending the whole night. Yeah we want 4 more years of that.

Despite being an Obama supporter, I actually felt that McCain understood these issues better and I feel like I would be safer with a McCain admin. in times of war.

CNN is so in the tank for obama, MSNBC is in the tank for obama, FOX is in the tank for McCain, where can I see honest discussion from people with objective voices?

So, is McCain going to pay off my mortgage or just the mortgage of those who bought too much house?

That is the last straw for me I am just going to sit this one out because I don't like either of these to Bailout Socialists.

I would score the debate a tie.

Obama will give us everything we want, right? McCain is more of the same, right?

I must not be watching the same debate. I don't think either was great but I would give a small bump to McCain.

Did McCain let slip a racial slander by pointing at and referring to Obama as "that one!'

[Susan S]

10:36 PM,
Obama supporter? Yeah, right.

JOHN MCCAIN CLEARLY WON TONIGHT. HE LOOKED PRESIDENTIAL AND HAD SPECIFIC SOLUTIONS AND ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.

OBAMA KEPT TRYING TO ANSWER IN GENERALIZATION DESPITE THE QUESTIONERS ASKING FOR SPECIFICS.

McCain was clearly the better candidate.

[Florida Voter]

Oh sorry my republican friends, the insta polls have a knockout for Obama. It wasnt even close. Mccain was nasty, nasty and nasty. He ran off the stage in a huff while Obama is still out there shaking hands with the crowd. He does not have the temperment to be President.

[Grandpa]

This was a great night for Obama. Mccain could not hide his anger and temper. Now I see why they question his temper. He is like a little baby and does not have the maturity to be president. Happy days are here again....

"..that one..."

Refused to shake his hand.

Classy that McCain is.

Can't wait to hear what Joe Biden says tomorrow morning at the USF SunDome about tonight's "debate".

Can't wait.

Welcome to Tampa Joe Biden!

CNN instant poll of people who watched the debate clearly shows that Obama won . . . again. Someone get the fat lady's voice warmed up.

Like most of the commentators I've heard after the debate, I think McCain won the economic portion of the debate handily. He had solutions & most important specifics. Obama kept trying to spin talking points without going to specifics even when directly asked for them.
I guess he was trying to play it safe, thus I give McCain the win on the debate on points.

FoxNews poll shows McCain won debate handily.

Drudge Report polls show McCain winner too.

Dearest 10:36 PM,

You are cracking me up! And you sounded just as sincere as the weird wandering old guy.

Would you people stop with the polls. They are all bias. That is why every debate so far have

Obama/Biden winning on CBS CNN polls

&

McCain winning on Fox News & Drudge polls.

THE ONLY POLL THAT MATTERS IS ON NOV 5TH

[Chuck Froster]

Obama won. McCrazy finally admitted that we have a crisis. Flip flop McErratic has to go.

REPUBLICANS FOR OBAMA!

"obama didn't have to be good" why not? Why is obama judged on a lower level? He can handle himself without people giving obama a pass, I dont' think it serves anyone well to say "obama doesn't haven't do well in the debate" the truth is he did well and he has to do well.

The only loser is the moderator TOM BROKAW. He stunk, by putting the same questions that have already been answer from previous debate.

What a waste of a debate. The whole night was a repeat of debate 1.

Oh my, I hope Pakistan doesn't team up with the enemy and try to come after us. Obama doesn't get it.

John McCain won easily. He had real answers. Obama didn't answer questions all night. He refused to go to specifics despite being asked.

McCain won the night.

[Bucs fan]

Mccain is just not likable. He comes off as angry. He didnt answer alot of questions, ie..fixing social security. He looked tired and old. His economic plans were repackaged free market bs. Big win for Obama. They should have 10 more of these things so everyone can contrast these two. Obama was and looked very very good.

[Florida voter]

I agree Brokaw was awful. There were so many things he could have asked to make it interesting. We need younger and fresher moderators.

I supported Hillary in the primary and I think McCain won tonight because he hammered Obama on the experience and on the records issue.
I don't think I will be voting for Obama. I cannot vote for him when he keeps ducking questions.

The whole thing was BORING!!!

Neither of these guys should even be in the race. Romney would be better than both!!!!

Yea, it's time to fire Brokaw, Ifil and Jim Lehrer.

October 6, 2008 - by David T. Hardy

As a presidential candidate, Barack Obama must demonstrate executive experience, but he remains strangely silent about his eight years (1994-2002) as a director of the Joyce Foundation, a billion dollar tax-exempt organization. He has one obvious reason: during his time as director, Joyce Foundation spent millions creating and supporting anti-gun organizations.

There is another, less known, reason.

During Obama’s tenure, the Joyce Foundation board planned and implemented a program targeting the Supreme Court. The work began five years into Obama’s directorship, when the Foundation had experience in turning its millions into anti-gun “grassroots” organizations, but none at converting cash into legal scholarship.

The plan’s objective was bold: the judicial obliteration of the Second Amendment.

Joyce’s directors found a vulnerable point. When judges cannot rely upon past decisions, they sometimes turn to law review articles. Law reviews are impartial, and famed for meticulous cite-checking. They are also produced on a shoestring. Authors of articles receive no compensation; editors are law students who work for a tiny stipend.

In 1999, midway through Obama’s tenure, the Joyce board voted to grant the Chicago-Kent Law Review $84,000, a staggering sum by law review standards. The Review promptly published an issue in which all articles attacked the individual right view of the Second Amendment.

In a breach of law review custom, Chicago-Kent let an “outsider” serve as editor; he was Carl Bogus, a faculty member of a different law school. Bogus had a unique distinction: he had been a director of Handgun Control Inc. (today’s Brady Campaign), and was on the advisory board of the Joyce-funded Violence Policy Center.

Bogus solicited only articles hostile to the individual right view of the Second Amendment, offering authors $5,000 each. But word leaked out, and Prof. Randy Barnett of Boston University volunteered to write in defense of the individual right to arms. Bogus refused to allow him to write for the review, later explaining that “sometimes a more balanced debate is best served by an unbalanced symposium.” Prof. James Lindgren, a former Chicago-Kent faculty member, remembers that when Barnett sought an explanation he “was given conflicting reasons, but the opposition of the Joyce Foundation was one that surfaced at some time.” Joyce had bought a veto power over the review’s content.

Joyce Foundation apparently believed it held this power over the entire university. Glenn Reynolds later recalled that when he and two other professors were scheduled to discuss the Second Amendment on campus, Joyce’s staffers “objected strenuously” to their being allowed to speak, protesting that Joyce Foundation was being cheated by an “‘agenda of balance’ that was inconsistent with the Symposium’s purpose.” Joyce next bought up an issue of Fordham Law Review.

The plan worked smoothly. One court, in the course of ruling that there was no individual right to arms, cited the Chicago-Kent articles eight times. Then, in 2001, a federal Court of Appeals in Texas determined that the Second Amendment was an individual right.

The Joyce Foundation board (which still included Obama) responded by expanding its attack on the Second Amendment. Its next move came when Ohio State University announced it was establishing the “Second Amendment Research Center” as a thinktank headed by anti-individual-right historian Saul Cornell. Joyce put up no less than $400,000 to bankroll its creation. The grant was awarded at the board’s December 2002 meeting, Obama’s last function as a Joyce director. In reporting the grant, the OSU magazine Making History made clear that the purpose was to influence a future Supreme Court case:

“The effort is timely: a series of test cases - based on a new wave of scholarship, a recent decision by a federal Court of Appeals in Texas, and a revised Justice Department policy-are working their way through the courts. The litigants challenge the courts’ traditional reading of the Second Amendment as a protection of the states’ right to organize militia, asserting that the Amendment confers a much broader right for individuals to own guns. The United States Supreme Court is likely to resolve the debate within the next three to five years.”

(45:17-18; online link; slow).

The Center proceeded to generate articles denying the individual right to arms. The OSU connection also gave Joyce an academic money laundry. When it decided to buy an issue of the Stanford Law and Policy Review, it had a cover. Joyce handed OSU $125,000 for that purpose; all the law review editors knew was that OSU’s Foundation granted them that breathtaking sum, and a helpful Prof. Cornell volunteered to organize the issue. (The review was later sufficiently embarassed to publish an open letter on the affair).

The Joyce directorate’s plan almost succeeded. The individual rights view won out in the Heller Supreme Court appeal, but only by 5-4. The four dissenters were persuaded in part by Joyce-funded writings, down to relying on an article which misled them on critical historical documents.

Having lost that fight, Obama now claims he always held the individual rights view of the Second Amendment, and that he “respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms.” But as a Joyce director, Obama was involved in a wealthy foundation’s attempt to manipulate the Supreme Court, buy legal scholarship, and obliterate the individual right to arms.

Voters who value the Constitution should ask whether someone who was party to that plan should be nominating future Supreme Court justices.

Source with multiple inline link citations; Pajamas Media » Obama and the Attempt to Destroy the Second Amendment

yea, i wish we can have 2 new candidates

I will not vote for Obama because of his scummy associations and absolutely no experience.

McCain seems a little old.

If you put a gun to my head, then I'll choose McCain.

I too think that McCain came off as angry. He did not leave the impression of a classy, professional, diplomat. He was more a petulant child, refusing to shake Obama's extended hand and "that one".

His performance tonight combined with the recent smear campaign paints a picture of an angry, potentially dangerous person. We've had an eff you leader the past eight years and we see what that has done to this country and how it's caused the rest of the world to view us.

Obama will not answer in specifics, why?? Every questioner is asking for specifics and he won't give them.Is he afraid, he'll offend some voters. This is not Presidential. Level with America. We want to hear the tough answers NOT TALKING POINTS.

If there were any question about how the majority of American gunowners would come down on the candidacy of Barrack Obama for president, the doubts vanished in a flash when Obama picked veteran anti-gun Sen. Joe Biden from Delaware as his running mate.

Biden proudly recalled during a July 23, 2007 Democrat candidates’ debate how he was “the guy who originally wrote the assault weapons ban.”

Where Obama is on record as opposing concealed carry, and favoring other restrictions, Biden has a long history of supporting gun control. He voted against the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which prohibits junk lawsuits against the firearms industry. He supported legislation to close the so-called gun show loophole.

Earlier last year, in the April 26, 2007 candidates’ debate in South Carolina, Biden—responding to a question about how the federal government might have prevented the Virginia Tech massacre—suggested that retaining the ban on semi-automatic rifles might have somehow had an impact, even though murderer Seung Hui Cho used two handguns that he purchased in retail gun shops.

Two of the nation’s leading gun rights forums, TheHighRoad.org and KeepAndBearArms.com, contained some bristling reactions from gun activists, and one said that Biden’s addition to the Democrat ticket is “a big break” for the gun rights movement.

Gunowners have been quick to reach back into Biden’s past to dig up comments he has made that somewhat paint him into a tight corner. For example, one remark that sped across Internet chat groups was made to the Associated Press in November 1993, when Biden was quoted stating, “Banning guns is an idea whose time has come.”

Gunowners like Melinda Meador of Inwood, WV, are convinced that Obama’s selection of Biden—a one-time chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee—signals gunowners that trouble is over the horizon if Obama wins the election in November.

“By selecting Senator Biden as his vice president,” Meador told Gun Week in an e-mail, “Obama has sent a clear message to gunowners that he does not care about protecting our right to keep and bear arms.”

She also predicted that Obama, as president, “would nominate (Supreme Court) justices like Ginsberg, Souter, Breyer and Kennedy—people who did not believe that a complete ban on handguns violates the US Constitution.”

“(Biden) claims the oxymoronic position of both respecting the Second Amendment and of being the author of the 1994 ‘assault weapons’ ban,” noted Chris Meissen of West Plains, MO. “Since the ban was only the latest iteration of a bill that Sen. Howard Metzenbaum first introduced in 1985 and the language as passed was a cooperative effort between Dianne Feinstein and Ben Nighthorse Campbell, Joe’s claim rings about as true as Gore inventing the Internet. Still, if he wants to claim credit that shows that he has no respect for the spirit or language of the Second Amendment. His proven behavior fits well with the Democratic platform plank that ‘the right to bear (rather than keep and bear) arms’ is nothing more than an American tradition.”

And Tempe, AZ, resident Geoff Beneze, operator of the 1911TechTalk gun rights chat list, wryly observed, “We now have two of the Three anti-gun Stooges in place. Is Michelle to play that part of the third?”

Al Barth of Manteca, CA, recalling Biden’s consistently anti-gun voting record noted, “Is there any wonder why Biden was rated ‘F’ by the NRA?”

I would love to hear the thorough explanation of someone who claims to be a Hillary supporter who is going to vote for McCain. LOVE to hear it.

[Rick T]

No real news in the debate is good news for Obama.

Where was the questions about Obama's criminal & crooked friends. Did Brokaw avoid them on purpose?

Terrorist Bill Ayers?
Felon Tony Rezko?
Racist Jeremiah Wright?
Racist Michael Pfleger?
Communist Odinga?

Enough with the copy and paste! Give a link!

[PUMA]

Lots of Hillary Supporters will be voting for McCain/Palin.

Live w/ it.

Quit posting the same crap.

It just shows that someone has nothing to offer in the way of actual debate skills or thought on the topic. It's a lame ploy to prevent others from actually posting opinions and having a discussion.

McCain continues to surprise me with his delivery, because I'm expecting the dementia. Not kind, I know, but true. So far I haven't seen it.

But here's the serious problem with McCain: His policy is a bunch of hogwash. Remember back 8 years ago, when Bush promised he would be everything to everyone? McCain is following that exact same strategy to the letter. He's for the environment, for education, for the middle class, healthcare for everyone, he will be compassionate towards the poor, and he's going to bail everyone out of their bad mortagage, AND HE'S GOING TO CUT TAXES! Now, wait a minute, What did we get when Bush made a whole bunch of incompatible, mutually exclusive promises? He kept to the selfish GOP agenda and gave away the farm to the rich, then oops! I guess we don't have the money for all those nice things I promised the rest of you, har har. Record spending, record deficit, an economic meltdown, the list goes on.

Bottom line, Obama wins the debate by a landslide, because he refrains from pandering and lying to us for votes, and his plan just might work.

And McCain really is Bush III, or worse.

Thank you, and goodnight!

FOX NEWS HAS MCCAIN WINNING:

MCCAIN 86%

OBAMA 12%

Ah, way to answer 11:33. No answer, no explanation, just a statement. I have yet to meet a Hillary supporter voting for McCain.

If someone truly were a Hillary supporter going for McCain they would be able to back it up with an explanation as to why they supported Hillary and now McCain.

I hope.

Obama is just irritating. He has no answers except blame George Bush.

No record, No Experience, No Answers I guess.

In looking purely at how the candidates handled the debate process insight into each candidates mechanism to deal with problems can be seen:

After an extended time talk by Obama, Brokaw reiterated that both candidates agreed to the time limits and rules. Obama's comment back to Brokaw was that he went over just as McCain had gone over on earlier discussions.

As background McCain had actually been slightly under time (red light had not gone off) in his previous talk and had been right on time the speech before. Both had gone over before that several times.

McCain's response was of importance in that he did not even mention the fact he did not go over but rather told Brokaw to wave his hand to insure they both could better follow the rules.

Interesting how one candidate complained about the other breaking the rules. The other candidate chose to find a solution rather than complain.

[Florida voter]

Mr 11:29---the gun issue is dead. The US Supreme court this year found that people have a constitutional right to a gun. So you dont have to vote the gun issue anymore, it is settled. Thank you Supreme court. Also Biden is a gun owner and made a big gun speech two weeks ago. The gun record is now irrelevant, cause the supreme court decided the issue.

11:35 you'll be shock on Nov 4th seeing how many Hillary supporters will not vote for Obama.

McCain 08'/ Hillary 12'

Remember, if Obama wins, Hillary has no chance of ever being president despite the MSM stealing this election chance from her.

And 'round you go 11:38. No explanation yet again. Keep hoping.

They may not vote, but they ain't voting for McCain.

Neither candidate pointed out the starting point for reforming economic policy:

REMOVE Dodd and Frank from any economic committee!

Improprieties Dodd is under investigation for and Frank's torrid gay love affair with a Fannie Mae executive is JUST CAUSE!

The market will NEVER recover until this is addressed. Investors have NO CONFIDENCE right now, not because of the executive but rather the both legislative branches and their banking and finance committee heads.

11:30 etc etc Lordy, is Rush Limbaugh still awake and balthering about Operation Chaos? I though those 6 Oxys he washed down after McCain promised to socialize the nations bad mortgages would have put him under!!!

those of you still saying HRC supporters voting for McErratic .... did you know that there was a PUMA party at the DNC Convention ... sponsored by the RNC. two, yes TWO women showed up and they left disgusted.

You can say it as many times as you want - but it just aint so.

but please, go ahead and blow your $$ on parties and we'll come, say what you want to hear and drink your booze and eat your pie.

[Why did McCrazy tuck tail and run out of the town hall?]

Notice that Sen. Obama, wife and supporters stayed behind to meet and speak with each individual. Why did McCrazy tuck tail and run out immediately???

"...gay love affair..."

Umm, ok.

curious. how does McErratic know how to win a war? and how will this old guy get binLaden? why hasn't he gotten him already? what's his plan? his secret?

if he knows how to get binLaden, aren't you disappointed in him not already doing it?

my analysis .... McErratic is a liar. a desperate liar.

[Quit Lying LIke Bush, John McCain]

Neither candidate mentioned that McCain hired Karl Rove (aka Bush's Brain) to run his smear campaign for him.

Remove Karl Rove and his little Toady minions from your campaign, John McCain, and you can make a start towards rehabing your slimeball reputation.

A great starting point WAS made by Barack Obama; he tells people the truth.

Unqualified home buyers were not the only ones who benefitted from Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank’s efforts to deregulate Fannie Mae throughout the 1990s.

So did Frank’s partner, a Fannie Mae executive at the forefront of the agency’s push to relax lending restrictions.

Now that Fannie Mae is at the epicenter of a financial meltdown that threatens the U.S. economy, some are raising new questions about Frank's relationship with Herb Moses, who was Fannie’s assistant director for product initiatives. Moses worked at the government-sponsored enterprise from 1991 to 1998, while Frank was on the House Banking Committee, which had jurisdiction over Fannie.

Both Frank and Moses assured the Wall Street Journal in 1992 that they took pains to avoid any conflicts of interest. Critics, however, remain skeptical.

"It’s absolutely a conflict," said Dan Gainor, vice president of the Business & Media Institute. "He was voting on Fannie Mae at a time when he was involved with a Fannie Mae executive. How is that not germane?

"If this had been his ex-wife and he was Republican, I would bet every penny I have - or at least what’s not in the stock market - that this would be considered germane," added Gainor, a T. Boone Pickens Fellow. "But everybody wants to avoid it because he’s gay. It’s the quintessential double standard."

oh yeah, so McErratic is now a Grade A Socialist.

wants the government to buy out all of the mortgages that are failiing?

Socialists for McErratic.

Fannie Mae Director of Product Initiatives?

You mean initiatives like bad loans to people who can't make payments?

Measure success by paying executives bonuses based on raw number of written loans?

Too bad the SNL skit was pulled by the Democrats. It was WAY TOO CLOSE TO THE MARK!!!

SPT please find another debate photo for the banner of this thread before the McWhiner crowd starts their media bias rant again. Tha rictus grim makes McCain look like he just found out Keating copped a plea and turned state's evidence.

Looks like Obama is doing a little "Victory Hail" Seig Heil...

Fox News' poll is one you can send text messages to vote.

Did someone really use that as a reliable poll? I mean, really? Is this American Idol or what?

Did I hear right? McCain called Obama "boy" or something like that?

no he did not, however, Obama acted like an immature whining brat.

They're playing it over again; you could watch it and find out what was said.

12:17 I haven't seen anyone else make that comment; in fact everyone seems to think that Obama spoke better that McCain.

***BARACK OBAMA STARTED HIS POLITICAL CAREER IN THE HOME OF A TERRORIST THAT BOMBS U.S. BUILDINGS & KILLED 2 POLICE OFFICERS IN THE BRINKS HOLD-UP

Drudge Report Poll:

debate winner

mccain 65%

obama 31%

Fox News Poll:

McCain 86%

Obama 12%

12:10 McCain called him "that one" while looking at Obama over his shoulder. It was unprofessional and condescending, but not overtly racist. Obama didn't flich, everyone's got a McCain type in their family, you just kind of make allowances for their quirks.

Thanks 12:31 do you have any legitimate polls, or should I just reverse the numbers to find out what the real world thinks?

you mean the liberal mainstream media's bias polls, lol

12:37, yeah the ones that us non-crazies listen to.

[Stile]

Speak for yourself 12:39, people don't listen to the media any more. They are a joke.

[OBAMA WINS BIGTIME]

Atlanta Journal Constitution:
Obama 61%
McCain 39%
http://www.ajc.com/

Fox News
Obama 69%
McCain 31%
http://elections.foxnews.com/

Houston Chronicle
Obama 74%
McCain 22%
http://blogs.chron.com/txpotomac/

Wall Street Journal
Obama 65%
McCain 35%
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/07/who-won-tuesdays-presidential-debate/

Well one things for certain, it was not the game-changer McCain needs to catch up. Look at the bright side, there's no more VP debates, so Palin can't cause any more freefall drops like last week.

[Jason H]

If you are going to use polls, please use scientific polls. CBS and CNN are the only two companys that ran unbiased snap polls after the debate. You can't count crap people can vote for. If you think McCain won this debate, I bet you thought Palin won hers, and mccain won his first debate. When you "win" a debate you get a bounce in the polls. Last I checked Obama is ahead by 8 in every reliable poll.

[Rob]

Sorry, but I don't see any 'change' from Obama...just more of the same in a better looking package.

[Donald lance]

The campaign is not about where we are but where we are going. I urge you all to consider what lies ahead. The past is just that and the future is what matters. Consider your rights and what will happen to them if Barry wins. Here is a prime example of what I mean hyperlinked below. Since Barry's cousin is in a power-sharing position in Kenya, all any intelligent person has to do is connect the dots. Dig deeper into this story for the truth about what lies ahead for dissenting voices:

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/478260/-/tkxwov/-/index.html

Missed this little show. Waiting for the real debate when all the candidates are represented. But my preconceived notions about "these two" are:

A seemingly nice young fellow, well educated articulate. But also the candidate who represents a party that aided and abetted a lunatic in the wholesale plundering of our economy. A party with a major campaign plank being the right to kill our children, a plank which the candidate heartily endorses.

A seasoned veteran, both of war and of government. A self-proclaimed, and probably accurately-so maverick.
But also the candidate who apparently endorsed the lunatic's plundering of the economy, as evidenced by his vp's photo op with Senator Martinez yesterday. And the candidate who also endorses the insane war policy of the present president.

[Mencken Jr]

I thought that McCain was pretty much phoning it in last night. He knows he's going to lose, and he wants to keep at least some of his image and reputation intact. The big losers - Karl Rove and Steve Schmidt. Their culture-warrior politics have fallen teh flat and will be put back on the shelf where they belong.

Anyone who watched the debate last saw that Obama (while gracious) meandered aimlessly and McCain gave specific answers to the questions.

McCain is 72 but his age certainly did not effect his thought process. His age does not inhibit his abilty to think.

Obama=Socialism
McCain=cut Pork spending and Free market.

Obama offered no solutions. Expressing compasssion and understanding does not a leader make.

Obama is proposing another almost trillion in spending by the U.S. government.

Has anyone asked WHERE that money will come from? (HIGHER TAXES....you betcha)

Can anyone imagine the type of Supreme Court Justices Obama would appoint?

A man (U.S. Senator) who would not salute our flag during the Pledge of a Allegiance?

The issue of Supreme Court Justices ALONE is enough to justify voting for McCain.

Can we say NO MORE BORDERS USA? Amnesty for all?

How much will that cost us monetarily and in National Security. (think California)

Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19 9-11 hijackers (illegal terrorists) were living right here in Florida?

Should we allow the likes of Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi to have this much authority over our finances and way of life in America?

If you think the Jimmy Carter administration was a disater Obama would be far far worse.

McCain-Palin '08

Most...boring...debate...ever...EVER.

[Paul]

McCain's best moment - Russia. His "if I say 'yes' incites cold war, if I say 'no' gives them free reign." Good answer.

McCain's worst moment - His plan to bail out bad mortgage loans because "the falling cost of housing is the greatest threat to our economy." This is wrong (and Anti-American) on so many levels: housing prices were a bubble, his plan is counter to our free market economy, we shouldn't reward foolish decisions, but most importantly - we, the taxpayers cannot afford it.

Obama's best moment - answering his health care questions, (keep your existing if you have) while weaving in the tax cut for those of us who make less than $250K. It really explained the concept (for me, for the first time).

Obama's worst moment - Russia. Aid to Georgia?

[Michelle from Tampa]

Speaking of culture-warrior politics, it was refreshing to hear both candidates speak about the issues that genuinely matter to our country--like healthcare, foreign policy, and the economy.

It's about time we got the "hot-button" issues out of our political discourse--AND out of the government, which has no business engaging in people's private affairs. I'm so tired of hearing the candidates talk about issues on which no one is ever going to change their minds anyway.

Can you say...scripted?

[Michelle from Tampa]

9:01--talk about revisionism! Re: the senseless attacks on Obama's patriotism, that is so stupid to insinuate that a SITTING U.S. SENATOR ***who's actually worked as McCain's colleague for 4 years*** is not patriotic enough to suit your jingoistic tastes. You can't believe everything you read in whatever emails your right-wing buddies send to you, especially since the claim that Obama did not appropriately do the Pledge of Alliegance is an outright falsehood, so you can stop it right now with that utter GARBAGE.

And about Supreme Court justices, you wouldn't mean the ones like George W. Bush swore in (and McCain promises to do the same), who have been responsible for weakening consumer and labor protections as well as all but reversing Brown v. Board of Education. You mean you WANT SCOTUS justices who will implement racist, anti-worker, anti-consumer laws that will benefit only the white and wealthy? What kind of American are you, anyway?

[Raymond]

you rep need to stop with the Obama experience issue. Read some history before you get on board with fox news and then get on here and bash his experience, and make yourselves look even more stupid.

[It's Over for The Republicans]

The Republicans are scared. Obama mopped the floor with McCain. It's clear who the winner was, but of course the Republicans have to say McCain won in order to make McCain feel good. What a bunch of idiots.

I see the Faux Libertarian McLance has to stick his anti-Obama oar in again. Claims to be 3rd party but never ever has anything bad to say about McBush, but plenty to knock on Obama.

Of course this just proves that Libertarians are really the radical wing of the GOP. They want to take the proven failure of Bush's wingnut totalitarian policies and expand them tenfold.

Obama = 2
McCain = 0

America = 0

Our only chance is the 30% of white Democrats that poll Obama but refuse to pull the lever for a black man. (AP poll taken mid-Sept 08)

Can you imagine Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Schummer, Frank, Rangle, Waxman, Dood, Murtha and Durbin in charge?

It can not possibly get any worse than that my friends.

[Michelle from Tampa]

9:54=blatant racist

[We need a real debate]

Both of their performances were absolutely miserable.

Perhaps it was the format...this was supposed to be a "townhall" format, but was anything but...the questions were so scripted and so the answers were as well.

Can't we get a real debate for once?

[Surprise, surprise...]

Son of Democrat Tenn State Lawmaker charged with hacking Palin's yahoo account.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1008081palin1.html

10:03 - We'll never get a real debate as long as this "commission" is in charge of presidential debates. Just smear on the vaseline and accept your fate.

[Evidence that Republicans plan to cheat in November]

9:59 Michelle - Can you see where McToady at 9:54 is heading with that 30% crap? If McCain can draw close enough in the polls for them to cheat in swing states again, that will be their explanation for why the results don't match the exit polls. Our Democracy is still very much in danger from the Republican party.

10:03 - We'll never win a debate unless we get Fox News to sponsor it and Sean Hannity to moderate. For now, just gulp the Kool-Aid and pretend McCain doesn't sound as cracked as he really is.

[professor]

What about the .. the.. nFactor? Is it real? Is it a fig of the imago? Is it some sinister dark swarthy evil alien force gripping the country fostered by the corrupt dirtbag treasonous politico/lawyers in DC? Can science overcome this pus copulated fungus? Are we safe? Are We Really Safe?

To know the answer to this and other scary phantasmagoric psychobabble, please enroll in the next 'Polling 101' class at your local community college.

"It's a Wonder to Learn!"

[Just a Messenger]

Hi Michelle from Tampa,

Please educate yourself before calling someone racist. I merely reported the results of a poll done by the AP last month. Here is a the source:

WASHINGTON (AP) _ Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," ''violent" or responsible for their own troubles.

The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points.

Now you know the truth; can you give us your opinion as to why so many white Democrats are racist?

McCain is too old, too sick and is completely out-of-touch. He waddled around the stage. His "heh" sounds like some 105 year old man.

Teddy Roosevelt today, Ronald Reagan tomorrow. "That one". Telling the black man that he probably never heard of Frannie Mac and Feddy Mae".

I wonder if Cindy has started calling nursing homes.

submitted by a Senior Citizen

Michelle - as you can see from his post at 10:42, McToady has a strong interest in getting that message out. Since he's a McCain/Rove minion, sometime you can figure out from his spew what the liars plan to do next.

As an aside, McToady regularly posts racist comments on the Buzz, so your accusation is spot on. He's also a bigot.

[Just a Messenger]

Poll I'd Like to See:

What percentage of black Democrats will not vote for John McCain because he is white.

[Just a Messenger]

To the name calling jack-off at 11:01:

Please use some of your hate-filled rant on the poster boy at 10:47.

I would like to know what you call a person like him/her?

[Just a Messenger of hate]

Squish!

[Just a Messenger]

Oh and with regard to my, as you say "strong interest in getting that message out" I ask:

Why is this not news? Why didn't the main stream media run with this story?

I mean, it is an AP poll done by Stanford University. Its not like they are in the bag for the GOP.

So come on now, you and Michelle huddle up and explain to all us "Rove minions" why up to 30% of white democrats are such bigots.

I will wait around for your "kill the messenger" and "ignore the message" babble.

[Es Bien, Toadista?]

10:47 I for one would respectfully suggest that you stop insinuating that McCain is senile. This only serves to give him an excuse for claiming that his hateful and ridiculous policies are the work of a demented mind. In fact, I think McSame is in full command of his faculties, and his policies are the result of a hateful and ridiculous mind.

[Bleat! struck a nerve? Karls not going to like that!]

11:08 Please don't get your little Toadie nickers in a twist there, Messenger of Hate. I didn't pass judgement on your precious study that you think proves that Democrats are as hateful as Republicans.

I just want to make sure that everyone is aware that the lying swiftboating gutter campaign of John McCain plans to cheat and use your study as an excuse for why the altered results don't match the exit polls. Hey I could be wrong, but you heard it here first!

[Just a Messenger]

You Obamabots are very quick studies.

Chuck and jive is the term that best describes how you avoid answering a direct question.

John Zogby is the only pollster to get the 2004 election correct. Right now he says this election is dead even (1.7% advantage Obama).

This should be interesting...

[Just a Messenger]

Let me try again but I will re-phrase it:

Why are so many Democrats bigoted?

The facts are that nearly 30% of white democrats polled said that they will not vote for a black man.

Add to that the nearly 100% of black democrats that will not vote for a white man (in this election) and you have nearly a majority of democrats that are clearly bigots.

I, for one, am alarmed that the party that preaches equality for all is mostly a bunch of unabashed racists.

mccain looked like he was trying out for the hunchback of notre dame

hey 11:26 -- i've been confused my whole life why republicans want to go to foreign countries and kill innocent people, like to execute our convinceted prisoners...and then get their panties in a twist when a women wants to make a choice about her body.

so grow the f up -- both parties are a bunch of hypocrites.

[Tipped your hand, didn't you? Beware the wrath of Rove - under the bus for you!]

"You Obamabots are very quick studies."

Right, and that's why we don't play your little question and answer games, mindless minion.

[Just a Messenger]

I personally wouldn't care if Obama was an Arab, er ah, bad choice, OK Asian.

I can not vote for a man that is a Socialist with Marxist tendencies. Maybe a better description is what Ayres describes himself to be:

A Communist with a small "c"

[Michelle from Tampa]

Just a Messenger/11:26--perhaps African Americans haven't had a _chance_ to vote for anyone OTHER than a white person for President in prior elections.

Also, many ppl who are still registered Democrats from the bad old days of the "Dixiecrat" era have refused to change their party registration, even though they consistently vote Republican every time.

You're additionally not taking into account Rush Limbaugh's ridiculous attempt to get Hillary Clinton on the ballot (assumedly so Republicans could beat her senseless in November) by encouraging his listeners to re-register as Democrats so they could vote for her in the primaries.

Hmmm. Considering that most Americans are registered as Democrats, "nearly 30 percent" of American voters who are BIGOTS regardless of their party registration is not enough for McCain to win in November. He needs at least 51% and don't forget about the EVs.

Sorry, but the era of the old white man as being the only viable candidate for President is long gone. Say hello to a new generation represented by your new President, Barack Obama.

[Your Boss - Grover Norquist]

11:35 That's right minion - get back on topic! We need to slander Obama and get those poll numbers close, THEN we can steal the election. Don't make me prioritize for you again, Toad, or it's under the bus squishpop!

[Michelle from Tampa]

JAM 11:35--okay, give me a description of what a Socialist with "Marxist tendencies" means exactly.

I'll be waiting with baited breath for your answer!

[Just a Messenger]

hey confused at 11:29

It is obvious you are confused. Lets review who starts wars:

WWII FDR (Democrat)
Korea Truman (Democrat)
Vietnam Kennedy/LBJ (Democrats)
Kosovo Clinton (Democrat)
Iraq 1: (United Nations)
Iraq 2: (Bush w/United Nations approval)

Prisoner executions:

THEY COMMITTED HEINOUS MURDERS AND DESERVE TO DIE

Abortion: No problem as long as it is the off-spring of liberals

Class Dismissed!

[LittleBro]

hmmmmmm - care to tell us what a "socialist with marxist tendencies" is? And then - what is it about Obama that fits your definition?

As an aside, it seems to me this administration has created a huge "socialist" state through the attempted bailout of the financial industry. Oh - and is it not a "socialist" idea that McCain advanced last night? Have the government buy up all the "bad" mortgages and renegotiate them so people can stay in their homes?

Of course, I've probably got it all wrong. which is why I hope you'll defined "socialist with marxist tendencies."

11:41 The "professor" teaches Spin 101 at Kool-Aid U.

[Just a Messenger]

Hey Michelle, glad you are back. To answer your question, socialists are marxists are pretty much one in the same. Although, Marx went further in is quest for the utopia Democrats seek.

Try Wikipedia, it is amazing what you can learn when you do a bit of research:

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.[1][2] Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution, it being the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.[3][4]

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth into a small section of society who control capital, and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.[1]

Just a messenger:
Either you are simply an uneducated kid or you are an abysmally uneducated adult. Either way - take your choice and let's review the history you propose. Start with an easy question. What was Roosevelt's excuse for "starting" World War II. Oh - and when did that war start? For extra credit, where did it start?

For a little more recent history, what did McCain have to say last night about permitting "another holocaust?" For extra credit, what's a "holocaust?"

You've pretty well described a McCain administration, haven't you "Just a Messenger?"

[Just a Messenger]

Hey Little bro:

I agree, we have a choice between the socialist/marxist Obama and the socialist McCain.

Of the few things I like about McCain is that he will CONTINUE TO FIGHT RADICAL ISLAM. Your candidate is ready for surrender at all costs.

Oh and of course; McCain's veto is our only chance to stop the Pelosi/Reid/Barney/Schumer train wreck.

[Just a Messenger]

Full Disclosure:

I own a company and am against the bailout completely.

Let the chips fall where they may.

[Just a Messenger]

OK bye bye now. Carry on....

[LittleBro]

"surrender at all costs?" Anything you base that on? Or is it just something you've heard other Palintologists say and you liked the sound of it?

11:51 "Liar For Hire, Inc"?

(Messenger skipped out to gobble a few tasty worms.)

ECONOMY ECONOMY ECONOMY

McCain's economy policy would not work in any known universe.

[Professor]

Michelle - You are right now sitting on an 'D'

1 - Obama has only been a senator for less than 2 years. -5

2 - If Obama was in the Senate for the Iraq War vote. He would have voted 'Yea' like the rest of his party. He is a follower. He is no Maverick. -5

3- The Supreme Court decision was brought about by Al Gore. He was the one that keep losing the FL recount and went whining to the US Supreme Court to help him. He Lost! -10

4- If you have consumer problems go complain to China. The criminals on Wall Street, in the investment banks and the treasonous dirt bag politico/lawyers in DC collaborated to destroy this country by exporting our American jobs. Speculated on the commodity markets that drove the price of oil up and much more. -15

5- Brown v. Board of Education decision has destroyed the locally run school systems. The once locally controlled school systems across the country are wrecked by these 'throwback rap crap' punks. The system needs to be cleaned up. -5

100-40=60 'D'

Please tell me you are not a product of the system, just brainwashed.

"It's a Wonder to Learn!"

The economy is not so bad for some of us. I made over $10,000 yesterday alone. In fact, my clients were approved of nearly $200k in credit.

But I did work very hard for it.

And don't worry all you socialists; you will get your 50% cut.

[Better than the debate!]

"You can't call yourself a maverick when all you've ever been is a sidekick!"

-Joe Biden

12:21 = Jeb Bush.

[Country First, Hollywood Last!]

Professor,

On #4 you completely forgot about the two banking chairs that CAUSED the problems at Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae; Democrats Chris Dodd and Barney Frank. Dodd is being investigated for his potentially illegal actions and Barney Frank's Fannie Mae executive gay love interest in charge of loan opportunities is the stuff of legend.

Automatic F for that one alone!

NObama, NoBiden, No How, No Way!

[Professor]

Better than the debate - Good line.

The come back is, "at least I'm no sidekick to the sidekick of an organ-grinder!"

12:26

Obama's followers do not care 1 bit about his associates, character or actions.

You could produce pictures of Obama personally performing a partial birth abortion and then eating the aborted fetus; the Obama-dolts would just brush it off.

Proving that he is a Racist, has terrorist and criminal friends is just not enough anymore.

Professor - I think you're on to something. You and the guy at 12:32 have it correctly. It's the damned constitution t