Sink: Growth management bill is 'ugly pig'

CFO and gubernatorial candidate Alex Sink suggested to Buzz that she thinks Charlie Crist should veto the controversial BD 360 growth management bill.

"It's the classic example of something that probably started out being a good idea and a good concept and by the time it got to the end it had so many christmas ornaments on it it was an ugly pig. That would be an example of something I (as governor) would be engaged in along the way to work collaboratively with the Legislature to end up hopefully with a better product instead of something that's very flawed. When you have local governments and environmental people opining about how flawed and how negative and bad it is that's not the outcome you want to have."

Comments

[Blue Lizard]

Note how Sink didn't actually provide an answer for this, she simply said she'd "take a look at it." Awesome. She must be taking pointers from her husband.

[blank]

"When you have local governments and envirobmental people oipioning about how flawed and how negatuve and bad it is that's not the outcome you want to have."

Great grammar SPT.

[how 'bout them repiggies]

Repiggies won't be happy until the state is totally paved over, with ugly tract houses stuck all over the place, interspersed with trashy strip malls and ugly megachurches.

[Tom Lee]

Her answer again demonstrates she is a political novice who does not have a clue how the legislature works.

[Surfin on the St. Johns]

"legislatures"... plural? I know it's been three weeks since I left Tallahassee post sesssion, but did we create a second legislature? One is tough enough.

Here's some insight: Alex Sink won her race for CFO with awesome TV ads in a race where she was otherwise able to be relatively silent and the press was relatively silent. This ain't a CFO race. This is for Governor and you will see early on, as is the case with this vapid quote, that Alex Sink is a paper tiger with tremendous political flaws.

I'm not saying she won't get it together by next November but I have to chuckle a bit when my Democrat friends try and convince me of her universal appeal and "inevitable" term as Governor. There is strong evidence that suggests this emperor is need of some clothing.

[Paul D. Harvill]

Gov. Crist,

Please veto SB 360.

Thank you in advance.

Paul D. Harvill
Tallahassee

[get-smart]

She's full of crap. When she's in Tally she is more interested in her vacation time and how she can bilk the state out thousands just like all the other dirtbags in office or running for office. Why would anyone spend a half a million dollars on a thirty five thousand dollar job? To make a difference? That's a joke and that person hasn't come yet! If you want to make a difference become a nurse.

Cheers -

[nwh]

When will the Times take her to task for accomplishing nothing - zero - zilch in Tallahassee? She campaigned to "stir things up" and all she does is mail letters and offer pithty (worthless) comments after debates are said and done. She is such a disappointment.

[Following the "leader"]

"Note how Sink didn't actually provide an answer for this, she simply said she'd "take a look at it." Awesome. She must be taking pointers from her husband."

"she didn't actually provide an answer for this"

Correct. CFO Sink is taking pointers from our governor.

[Sink is a fake]

Sink is a fake.

Also, Paul D. Harvill, you should spend less time worrying about bills and worry about doing your job at the Department of Children and Families, one of the worst agencies that abuses kids. Like the communications guy who had kiddie porn and went to jail, etc.

Spend more time worrying about what you get paid for and less time politicking about higher level stuff.

Save those kids and families which is what you get paid for by tax payers dollars.

[Mr. Repiggie]

The only thing I really want to see paved over is the dumb SOB who posted at 9:57.

[Paul D. Harvill]

To: Sink is a fake | May 31, 2009 at 04:15 PM ------

Thank you for such kind comments to me and my agency. We accomplish a much better job than you assert.

As to my individual work with the agency: Slavery was outlawed over 100 years ago. I am not a slave to my work, to my job -- except for the hours that I am working. I work the hours required. Then my remaining time is "my" time. Not the agency. And certainly not you.

This is America. Not Amerika.

Respect the freedoms of others.

Your comments indicate that you do not understand the meaning of our freedoms.

The political has been one of my chief passions since 1979.

The political is my avocation and passion. Political advocacy is one of the most central aspects of my life.

If you really want to know to whom you are actually addressing, Google, Yahoo, etc. me. You may actually learn something.

Better yet, go to the St. Pete Times online archives and type in Paul Harvill. The articles are full text and FREE.

High level political activity by me has been going on since 1981.

Our next Governor is going to CFO Alex Sink.

Finally, you don't even have the courage to reveal who you really are.

No courage. Period.

Have a nice day.

[Jim]

Limbaugh goes by the name "growth management" now-a-days?

[Oh goodie we have a spell checker and grammar corrector]

CLASSSSSSSSS,we have a new teacher,LOL.Nothing what so ever to add to the debate,she just wants to feel superior in some way.(WOW easily amused)
I am sure you know this is a forum and most likely does not go through the same proof reading a print article goes through,besides this is free as well as informal.

[Paul]

ALEX,

Maybe if someone will explain it to Charlie he will understand what it is all about.

It is probably too complicated for him to understand.

Maybe he can get some advice from Ray Sansom.

[get-smart]

Paul D. Harvill - I like the cut of your jib. I would like to hire you as my adviser. With your political acumen and my connections we can go far.

As you may know, I am a Republican and recently I was thinking about changing my party affiliation to Democrat. As a Republican I have always felt out of place. For some reason I don't get any respect like I used to and on the Democrat side I will be among my new-old friends.

I believe as a Democrat I can make a difference. I am very sensitive to the plight of all Floridans. At times I break down and cry at the sight of puppy dogs or kitty cats.

Once, my friend, Jay and I were walking pass a pet store in downtown Destin. They had both puppies and kitties in the window. Need I say more? After seeing both puppies and kitties in the window, Jay and I started balling our eyes out for an hour.

Paul, I like your work ethic as you spelled it out in your post. Do just enough to get by. That's OK Paul. Just put your time in, take the retirement and get re-hired at the same job. My good buddy and mentor Bobby R. can show you the ropes on that scam. "He's too important to fail!" Hahaha.

The only minor adjustment needed for our future relationship to work Paul, is your view of the Growth Management Bill. You are the one who said "This is America. Not Amerika." Paul, Now think! Doesn't the property owner have property rights in America? Are we going to leave the growth of Florida in the hands of the 'Central Planning Commissar Committee?' No incentives, no growth. No growth, no jobs. No jobs, no money. Is that the America you want to live in, Paul? An America that is in a perpetual depression? I Say No, Paul! You don't!

I say, lets join forces and I can take you from 'political wannabe blogster,' to 'politico gangsta!'

Ray S.

[sunk]

Sink: My banking record is an "ugly pig"

[friedgator]

Ray S. and Sink is a fake -

Haha!

The only one that looks like and 'ugly pig' is ________ and will not get elected.

Who is this paul harvill? sounds like an old man in his basement. You are right Ray S. a wannabe.

[Conflict of interest?]

"High level political activity by me has been going on since 1981"

Paul D. Harvill

[friedgator]

DCF is the worst agency riddled with scandals. If paul does so much political activity within it, a public records request of his email and records should be made. No wonder why that agency has so many kids dying and abused. All paul does is politics. If he is so high level, then he is responsible and should be investigated. If he is not high level, then he is just some looser talking, and should work harder to protect our children in Florida.

5/30/09 - Florida Department of Children and Families' records on foster children taking psychiatric drugs raise doubts

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1005768.ece

[friedgator]

A search reveals that paul has posted political activist comments during work hours possibly form a work computer. I call for his immediate firing.

Here's just one of them on a weekday between 8-5pm.

the list goes on because he has done this since 1981 as he clearly states.

A public records request will be issued to this agency.

[friedgator]

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/05/fl_to_sc_drop_d.html

[truth squad]

Alex Sink is parroting the talking points handed to her by a gaggle of environmental whiners. She has no clue about the regulatory programs that comprise Florida's growth management laws and she has no understanding about how his this bill would alter them.

[Magic beat Lakers!]

truth squad! you are right!

friedgator! Paul D. Harvill should be investigated if that's true!

[Russians are realistic]

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/

[henway]

Paul, do you think this will suffice to explain it to Charlie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01EhpYxih_o ?

If not, perhaps it will at least explain the issue a little better to you, "truth squad." Does Sink know what's she's talking about regarding SB 360? I don't know. But I'm betting you don't. It's not just an environmental issue, despite how it's been framed by the media, and it's certainly not a Rep. vs. Dem. issue -- in fact, many Republicans have called for a veto.

True, the environmental repercussions aren't pretty, but the really big issue is higher taxes -- about a billion dollars in extra taxes for you and I, actually. Are you in favor of that sort of thing?

[truth squad]

Henway,

Sadly, you know not of what you speak. And yes, I know the details of SB 360 and Florida's growth management laws. SB 360 won't cost taxpayer's a billion dollars. What it will do is create an incentive to build in existing urban areas thereby sparing the rural areas from sprawling development. This jump-started building will actually result in increased tax revenues from new projects, thereby lowering the tax burden of the average Floridian. And yes, Alex Sink understands none of this.

[Sink4Gov]

Gee, does anyone think that 6:32 wasn't paid to say that? What a shill! Unregulated growth is ruining Florida, at least until the economic collape it cuased put a temporary halt to it. We need find a different, sustainable way to make a living here in Florida. Sink has the right idea.

[truth squad]

Sink4Gov:

Put down the crack pipe.

Unregulated growth?

A) Florida has more environmental and land use regulations than almost any other state. Growth, when when used to have some, is highly regulated.

B) Florida is no longer growing. Our economy is stagnant and your precious government is starving from lost tax revenue.

[henway]

Truth squad, I think Sink4gov was paying you a compliment, saying that you seem so well-spoken that you must be getting paid to make those comments, as you can't possibly believe them.

Yes, our economy is stagnant, and it's stagnant in large part because the cornerstone of our state's economic model is to just keep building without actually stopping to think who will live in all those houses or fill all that vacant office space. It's time that we started considering how we can attract businesses to the state and diversify our economy, rather than continuing along with the same failed model.

Development so far has not paid its way, and there's certainly no reason to think it will start to do so when we make taxpayers subsidize more suburbs. SB 360 would cause many local and county governments to lose as much as 3/4 of their transportation infrastructure budget -- money which developers currently pay under the fair share program to satisfy transportation concurrency requirements. That's over a billion dollars a year that government will have to borrow or -- especially given the credit crunch -- take directly from taxpayers. So much for lowering the tax burden of the average Floridian.

Also your assertion that "What [SB 360] will do is create an incentive to build in existing urban areas thereby sparing the rural areas from sprawling development" is patently false. Have you still not found time to read the bill or even watch the little 2-minute video, or are you really getting paid to say these things?

[Somebody, anybody else, sorely needed for our top office.]

Alex Sink is a very poor example of the best of what the dems have to offer. She has never done anything for the people of Florida. She has never been a public servant, up until 2 years ago. She has no local relationships, nor does she have an idea of what it is to service constituents. In short, she has not earned it nor does she have the loyalty of any particular constituency. She could not even carry her own district.

Such narcissism in a marrige reminds me of the Clintons. Sinks husband lost the governors office so badly, that she decides to run.

Unfortuantely it is true that Alex sink can easily beat McCullom. How sad is that? Gelber, Nan Rich, Chris Smith, any of them would be a better candidate than Alex Sink. And if Paula Dockery enters this race, it's hers. All she need do is compare records with sink. In any event, the winner of this race has not entered yet. Neither current candidates are Governor material.

[truth squad]

I'm going out on a limb here, but being called a 'shill' doesn't sound like a compliment.

[Sink4Gov]

henway - I think we need look no further than conservative dolts like "truth squad" to see why they are a rapidly dying minority. Despite the incredible damage they've caused to everyone save the ultra-rich, they show no remorse and contine to push their failed agenda. Only an absolute fool or a paid shill would still be bleating the conservative mantra.

[truth squad]

Okay, Henway, I watched the two-minute video on Youtube, although it wasn't as nearly as entertaining as the average video of skateboarder doing a face plant. But it was more painful to watch.

It's lethally earnest homespun propaganda, but that's about it.

It ignores the fact that developers don't magically print money when they pay taxes. They simply pass on their tax burden to the consumer, so either way --taxes or a larger bill from the developer-- the consumer pays for the infrastucture if the infrastructure is built.

The more likely scenario is that the infrastructure won't be built and levels of service on roads will simply decline. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It provides an incentive to build mixed-use developments that are pedestrian oriented and spurs the usage of mass transit.

The pictures of farmers' fields were misleading. Sure, they are some remnant rural lands inside the dense urban areas, but in reality the Legislature has created a high bar for meeting this standard. The vast majority of land in Florida will not be considered a dense urban area.

And lastly, aren't the people complaining about growth in Florida more often than not people who moved here from another state? I don't mind you living here, but could we skip the uptight little lectures?

[truth squad = norquista redux]

Let's all bow down and worship the developers, realtors, and big business! They are the answer to all our problems!

[henway]

"I watched the two-minute video on Youtube, although it wasn't as nearly as entertaining as the average video of skateboarder doing a face plant."

Agreed, truth squad, those face-plant videos are more entertaining.

"developers don't magically print money when they pay taxes. They simply pass on their tax burden to the consumer..."

You're absolutely right, those costs are passed on to the buyers of the homes, just as they should be. SB 360 would subsidize suburbs -- it would just make everyone else pay for it instead. To paraphrase G. Gordon Liddy, I assume you feel you owe a great debt to developers and suburbanites, a debt which you propose to pay off with other people's money.

"The more likely scenario is that the infrastructure won't be built and levels of service on roads will simply decline. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It provides an incentive to build mixed-use developments that are pedestrian oriented and spurs the usage of mass transit."

Agreed that the level of service on roads will decline, but no, that provides no incentive to developers. Once they build, their obligations in this regard are essentially over -- they just want to build cheap and sell. "Down the road" the people who bought the houses will be demanding that taxpayers improve their roads. By then, it's not the developer's problem.

"in reality the Legislature has created a high bar for meeting this standard. The vast majority of land in Florida will not be considered a dense urban area."

The definition in the bill is anything but a "high bar." Just take a look at the boundaries of Hillsborough County's urban service area -- just about everything inside which would be considered a transportation concurrency exception area under the bill -- and you'll see plenty more farms, natural areas and lightly-developed rural areas.

"And lastly, aren't the people complaining about growth in Florida more often than not people who moved here from another state? I don't mind you living here, but could we skip the uptight little lectures?"

Actually, I think that most of the people who are complaining are the ones who have been here for decades and have long enough memories to recall why the growth management laws were enacted in the first place.

Finally, Sink4Gov, I don't think it's fair to assume truth squad is a "conservative dolt." I consider myself a fiscal conservative, and the policies s/he's espousing -- higher taxes, fiscal irresponsibility and subsidies -- sure don't sound conservative to me.

[Gator(R)]

Watched the video too. Still don't really know if the bill will help or hurt sprawl. Regardless, as the video pointed out there is a huge glut of vacant homes, condos, etc. plus hundreds of developments on hold. Who in there right mind would build more right now, regardless of this legislation?

If it encourages denser growth, I am in favor of it. If it doesn't, then I am not. I don't really care who pays initially, we all do in the end.

[Paul D. Harvill]

"High level political activity by me has been going on since 1981"

Paul D. Harvill

Posted by: Conflict of interest? | May 31, 2009 at 08:43 PM

_______________

American birthright.

[Paul D. Harvill]

A search reveals that paul has posted political activist comments during work hours possibly form a work computer. I call for his immediate firing.

Here's just one of them on a weekday between 8-5pm.

the list goes on because he has done this since 1981 as he clearly states.

A public records request will be issued to this agency.

Posted by: friedgator | May 31, 2009 at 09:08 PM

________________

I invite anyone to do a public records request.

Your assertions are lies.

[Carly]

Polling has McCollum easily beating Sink.

Her former banking and current CFO position is dragging her like an anchor.

[MenckenJr]

truth-squad, there won't *be* any "jump-start" in building. We already have way too much housing and office inventory on the market, and as more houses get foreclosed on it's going to get much, much worse. This was a boondogggle, pure and simple, and every person with two brain cells to rub together needs to start calling Crist what he is - "boneless chicken Charlie" - so we can send him back to Pinellas County where he can enjoy the future he's signed us all up for.

[Paul D. Harvill]

To: friedgator | May 31, 2009 at 09:08 PM ----

Now I am back in Tallahassee from Tampa as my father fell and a heart problem was discovered.

Meaning: I was on family sick leave at the times that you were falsely accusing me otherwise.

Perhaps an apology is in order?

[Paul D. Harvill]

To: friedgator:

For your information, edification, etc. No need to reply.

Only the St. Petersburg Times website database advanced search allows for free access to the full text of articles as far back as 1987.

My state political activity began about 1980, thus seven years is not available online.

From the St. Petersburg Times:

Ethics Commission looks to closing its doors; [CITY Edition]
LUCY MORGAN. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Apr 21, 1992. pg. 5.B

.......

Ethics panel agrees on rule to restrict records access; [CITY Edition]
LUCY MORGAN. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Apr 25, 1992. pg. 6.B

.......

Traveling lawmakers asked few questions; [CITY Edition]
LUCY MORGAN. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: May 13, 1992. pg. 4.B

.......

Ethics complaint Series: SIDELIGHTS; [CITY Edition]
St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Jun 4, 1992. pg. 4.B

.......

Ethics panel rules against Stuart; [CITY Edition]
St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Jun 6, 1992. pg. 4.B

.......

Prosecutor urges ethics charges; [CITY Edition]
LUCY MORGAN. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Jun 19, 1992. pg. 4.B

.......

Office that handles death row cases is investigated; [CITY Edition]
D.IANE RADO. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Jul 8, 1992. pg. 1.B

.......

Ethics panel rules free trips likely illegal; [TAMPA Edition]
St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Jul 18, 1992. pg. 1.B

.......

Senator cleared by ethics panel; [CITY Edition]
D.IANE RADO. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Sep 5, 1992. pg. 3.B

.......

No need to hunt for loophole in ethics law; [CITY Edition]
HOWARD TROXLER. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Sep 14, 1992. pg. 1.B

.......

Blowing the WHISTLE; [CITY Edition]
D.IANE RADO. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Sep 20, 1992. pg. 1.B

.......

Death row agency is scrutinized; [CITY Edition]
D.IANE RADO. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Sep 24, 1992. pg. 1.B

.......

Scott ethics hearing postponed; [CITY Edition]
LUCY MORGAN. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Oct 3, 1992. pg. 4.B

.......

State attorney won't pursue case against agency; [CITY Edition]
D.IANE RADO. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Oct 13, 1992. pg. 4.B

.......

Ethics panel won't pursue ex-senator; [CITY Edition]
D.IANE RADO. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Oct 16, 1992. pg. 4.B

.......

Death-row inmates fight agency Series: THE STATE; [CITY Edition]
D.IANE RADO. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Jun 23, 1993. pg. 4.B

.......

Four swear appeals lawyers asked witnesses to lie; [CITY Edition]
LUCY MORGAN. St. Petersburg Times. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Mar 25, 1988. pg. 1.A

[certified debt management]

Hi nice carnival and specially i attract on your sentence "ugly pig". And its true you explain a classic example. Nice one...

[certified debt management]

Hi nice carnival and specially i attract on your sentence "ugly pig". And its true you explain a classic example. Nice one...