Torts has no fond farewell for Perrin

For some reason this item from Wednesday's paper didn't make it onto our web site, so for anyone from out of town, here is an interesting little nugget:

Coach John Tortorella wished Eric Perrin well but also said not to let the door hit him on the way out.

"He can kiss my (butt),'' Tortorella said.

Perrin, who in 2004 at age 29 got his first NHL opportunity with the Lightning, which got a recommendation from Perrin's college buddy Marty St. Louis, signed with the Thrashers as a free agent for two years, $1.5-million. That, apparently, was just $150,000 more than the contract offered by Tampa Bay, which also offered a three-year deal worth $1.575-million.

"This organization spent a lot of time with this guy, a lot of time,'' Tortorella said. "Eric Perrin did some really good things for us, and the ice time he got, he deserved, but every year it's nothing but a pain to sign him.''

Said Perrin: "I can imagine them, maybe, being upset, but to me it's nothing personal. You're grateful you get your first opportunity in the NHL, but a lot of things have happened since I've been with the organization.''

Perrin had 13 goals and 36 points in 82 games last season playing primarily on Brad Richards' line. He was slotted next season as a fourth-line center. He said the Thrashers told him he will start on the third line.

"That to me was important,'' Perrin said. "I don't think any hockey player would blame me for making that decision. It's not personal and it's nothing against the experience I had in Tampa because everybody knows how much I love playing there. ... But everybody could see the writing on the walls that I wasn't going to get those opportunities.''

Tortorella was not moved.

"I wish him well,'' he said, "but good riddance.''

   

Comments

[loyaltoperrin]

he has extended his loyalty enough. Why should he go to camp and "try" to win a spot on the 4th line, when another team offers starting on the 3rd line? Thats like your boss telling you, show up for work tomorrow and we "might" have work for you to do! Eric made the best decision for himself and his family! I'm extremely proud of him!

[Another Joe]

Yea Perrin is real loyal this is the 2nd time he has left an organization that gave him a chance in the NHL and put his name on the cup when he wasnt eligible by NHL rules. The Bolts owe Perrin nothing. He will do nothing in Atlanta!

[loyaltoperrin]

What a crappy comment by a coach! Eric gave his heart and soul to that team and got kicked in the balls by that organization! I'm very glad he took the money and ran! I'm sure that he will blossom in Atlanta and be much happier away from psycho coach!

[Bolts Canucks Fan]

I have no problem with Perrin leaving for Atlanta. He'll most likely have more playing time there and there's nothing wrong with someone wanting a change of scenery. The loyalty aspect is nice to embrace, but who really does this during the age of big contracts and free agency? Look at Buffalo. They lost Briere and Drury in one day. Perrin is not even half the player of those guys. That's harsh, but we'll be ok. Maybe Perrin will grow as a player and person away from Torts and even his his best friend Marty St. Louis. Sometimes you need to get away to find yourself. All I can say to Perrin is thanks for your time here in Tampa and hope you grow as a player in Atlanta. That's all for today.

BC Fan

[mike babnik]

I believe their salaries are 25 million....but their salary cap hit is like 19 million..ONLY SALARY CAP DOLLARS CAN FIGURE INTO ANY CONVERSATION and i am pretty sure about the 19 million number...i have been doing my reading!!!..and that changes everything when analyzed.....so the net of that is that their top three take up 38% of the cap..19 of 50mil....follow????and the cap is much higher now, do not forget that.....last year the cup was approx. 44 million and our top three took up 20 million of that....or 45%.....and factor in that we only spent 41 million so that meant our big three were at almost 49% of the team salary...so the figures show new york spending 38% on their three while we were at 49% for our three...new york i feel was stupid....but remember with a bigger cap...and I assure you they will spend all of their cap...so this is the real important part going forward ....ready??.....for new york that leave like 31 million to fill our the team...50-19+31 mil left to spend......we only spent 21 million on the rest of our team....soooo....the net of that is like 10 million difference in spending on the rest of the team......simply. new yorks big three are a much smaller part of the big picure if you factor in cap numbers and the bigger cap..when you analyze the numbers and factor in our inability to spend the cap, versus their ability to spend 100% of the cap......they have 10 million more dollars to sign role players...make sense??? simply: with a higher cap their is still more money to go around...if you are willing to spend it......what if we had 10 million more????first.. we still wouldn't spend it, but second....if we did...we would be much deeper and better off.....i hope that was clear and accurate....and if it is....how could anyone argue???...but i am sure they will....

[goldenbolt]

Dear Mr. Babnick....... 25mil hit for the top three in new york this year. We are waiting for your insightful comment.

http://www.nhlscap.com/salarynumbers/newyorkrangers.htm

Ha! Told you Vinny gave up money for Marty. Thank you very much HockeyQueen. Don't see Brad doing that now do ya?

[dave douche]

makes sense if its your 150,000. Thats alot of money isn't it?

[JB]

Perrin is a Hockey player. Hockey players generally like to play Hockey, not sit on the bench. The addition of Gratton showed Perrin what he'd be doing all season and he didn't like it. Very smart move on his part. When you're not making that much in Hockey the business side becomes very tight. His contract might seem like a lot but consider he won't be in this league for long and has to support a family on what he's making now for the rest of his life. Cut the guy some slack. To keep making money he's got to play, not sit on the bench.

[mike babnik]

satchamo....i love ya....you said i lied about o'brien...you had proof....i went to the internet and found out who was pulling everyones leg....he was a 14 minute a night guy......richards signed for the max....and two years later, the cap is ten million more and.....he is still the highest paid guy......by 10%....."proved" you wrong on that accusation as well......they do have 6-8 players making minimum salary or just around it......they do have players......3 of them in the top 5 of minutes played.....and in the last week we have signed a bunch of 25-28 yr old guys with zero nhl experience.....not 20-22 yr old guys......career minor league players......or unfound gems from europe.....we have lost about 8 guys who went somewhere else for alot of money.....we have signed maybe two...denis and kuba.....every web site that knows anything about hockey, slammed the richards deal....not because of richards....but because how it would hurt the organization in the long run..........and it has......and for all of you that are just happy and put the word "successful" on a season where you finish 8th and get shooed out of the playoffs in 5-6 games......you are not sports fans....well yes, you are fans.....but real sports fanatics always want more......they want management to come out and say....this team is built for a long run into the playoffs........this is our year......no magazine.....no website.....no power rating......no where will you find this lightning team anywhere near the top......this is not my "opinion" satch, this is reality....i do not like torts "personality" ...i do think the guy is a great motivator...and i think he gets every single ounce out of what he is given......but you ain't gonna win the kentucky derby with a donkey....i know i know....you don't even have to reply....i am the only donkeys***.......i can't wait for the next post....go gettem satch....ps...i hope you are right and i am wrong....i hope this year we knock em dead.....i just wish i could see proven players getting signed instead of hopefuls....you all have a good weekend!!!!

[Max]

WOW! Why the coach is so upset? Perrin signed with Atlanta for better opportunity. That's ALL. Like Drury, Briere and all the Free agents. It's not Perrin's fault that Richards can't pass, shoot, or score, that's all Brad's doing for being the lazy, whiny, bum that he is! It's easier to kiss the butt of a 450k than 7'8 millions. Perrin said:a lot of things have happened since I've been with the organization.''What is that mean? Is Tampa hiding something??? Why don't you tell the truth John......

[Bolts26]

It sounds like most of you people are just your everyday band wagon fans. If you are going to sit here and bash the organization then take a hike, and find another team. Torts and feaster are two of the best professionals in the NHL, and if you talk to anyone who knows anything about hockey they will tell you the same. I guess turning the franchise around and maintaining a consistency of winning isn't good enough. How can you say "sneaking into" the playoffs, as to that isn't good enough? Ask yourself this, what has the other pro teams in our area done in the past couple of years! Be appreciative, like i said in my other comment, teams would kill to even have a chance to make the playoffs. Thats all right, as long as us true fans support them even when times are tough, we will be all right. Fair weather fans, take a hike, stop bringing your negative vibes in here!

[Patty]

Rico, I agree with you that Richards, MSL and VL4 did not re-sign w/ the the Bolts because they love John Tortorella. My point, which you slightly mischaracterized, is that maybe Torts is not such an ogre to play for as some of the postings here would have us believe. I again refer you to my many examples of players, other than the 3 RFA's you isolated, who chose (emphasis on choose) to sign long-term deals, return to the Lighning fold, or forego free agency. Also, a couple of points about RFAs: I don't believe you can force certain level RFAs to sign multi-year contracts (outside of SPC's at entry level). So for instance, in Richards' case, if he really hated Torts, he could have signed his one-year (I believe the CBA calls it a "league year") RFA qualifying offer and then, as a 7-year pro, hit the road at the end of 06-07 as an UFA. Instead, he chose to sign a long-term deal, the length of which included UFA years, which is why Feaster was forced to pay (or overpay, if you prefer, as I am sure you do!) so much. In addition, prior to this year's free agency frenzy, at least from everything I've read, there existed a sort of Gentleman's Agreement among GM's not to poach other teams' RFAs. I still remember the eyebrows that were raised when Bobby Clarke tried it with, I believe, a Vancouver RFA last year. It was very much a rare occurance. This year, however, as GM's are getting more familiar with the new CBA, and having to deal with the resultant salary cap, which, let's not forget is only in its second year, the gloves have apparently come off. Evidenced by the rather spectacular offer made by Edmonton for RFA Vanek in Buffalo. Anyway, my rather long and tortuous point here is, that the most probable reason there were no offers for our RFA's in previous years, is that it just wasn't the "done thing." Let me conclude by saying I also agree with you that NHL (or any professional)coaches do not and should not last forever. "New blood" is sometimes a good thing. I believe it was Sun Sports who posted the graphic during our all-too-brief playoff run this year, that the Lighning is only 1 of 6 (I believe it was 6) NHL teams to have made the playoffs in 4 or more consecutive years. I attribute that in no small measure to Torts doing the best he can with the players he has had. However, if, at the end of the upcoming season, we don't make the playoffs, or we suffer another early playoff exit, Torts will probably be fired and then all of the Torts haters can finally rejoice. I will remember the Stanley Cup and 4 years of playoff runs. Thanks for your time.

[HockeyQueen]

"Dan Boyle took a little less to accomplish a little more. His gesture was rewarded quickly....I took a little less that might allow us to sign another player somewhere else on the roster... (Boyle)...The top priority should always be to be on a winning team.... Feaster spoke to Lecavalier's agent for an hour Tuesday and came away "with a very high level of trust" that Lecavalier will not file for salary arbitration today...We've basically come to the understanding of, if we don't get a long-term deal done, what a one-year deal will look like, Feaster said. He (Vinny) is willing to do a deal that is less than what he could command on the unresticted market next year." (St. Pete Times article 08/10/05)

"According to Hughes, Lecavalier has also offered to give the Lightning a "home team discount" on his services if it means keeping the core of the team intact. That likely includes fellow restricted free agent Martin St. Louis." (TSN.CA article 8/12/05)

"Dating all the way back to the summer of 2004, there was never a moment when we were not firmly committed as an organization to getting Marty signed long term. The fact that he was willing to take less and give up the chance to explore unrestricted free agency demonstrates his commitment to our team, his teammates, our franchise and our incredible fans." (St. Pete Times article 08/25/05)

Boyle, Lecavalier, St. Louis ALL took less $$, to give us fans great hockey. Don't know if you guys were ever thanked for the gesture, but thank you!

(My apologies Damien, for quoting a competitor source)

[Satch]

I apologize for that last comment. Might have been a little harsh and it's not what belongs here.

Mike, you have every right to state your case anytime you want. Please stay with the facts. Your history is well documented. You are not talking to a group of idiots here. Wild @$$ comments will be called.

Mike, we need to agree to disagree. Nothing more. Post on, but stay within the realms of reality and truth. It's in your best interest!

[Satch]

Vinny gave up part of his money on his contract so we could keep Marty too?? According to whom? They were playing for Team Canada at the time and Marty was worried the Lightning wouldn't have enough money left to sign him.

Oh wait, I get it, it's my good buddy Mikey lying his @$$ off again.

Do you really think most of the people here buy your bs? maybe you should go post on the cbc boards since you like them so much. It would raise the IQ level on both.

Yeah bear,

and how many times have you seen Richards actually hit someone. Almost died of shock at a game.

[bear]

Richards couldn't carry the jock strap of Iginla or Joe Thornton and they both JUST signed long term for 7 million a season.

Just because Briere and Drury got nut case contracts doesn't justify the mistake as both of those teams will likely find out.

Richards is a -30 even strength and hates to be hit.

Please

Crosby is looking to sign long term at 8 million so that they can sign some others around him and he's the best player in the game.

[Another Joe]

Not only do I think Richards will have a better year then Drury and Briere, but I also believe the bolts will have a better year then the Rangers and Flyers!!! Im right with ya Shannon.

Briere will need a year to adapt to Philly. Drury is not a big point producer and the NY media wont give him a pass because he is a good leader. The NY pressure will hurt him. However I think Gomez will do great in NY. I hate that the Rangers got him I was hoping he'd go to the Western Conference.

[HockeyQueen]

Quote: "...Richards is gonna put up 90 + points next year with decent linemates..."

It's funny, but last I checked, there were only so many players in the NHL. Just how many does he go through to find ONE single decent playmaker?

It's a darned shame that players like Lecavalier hadn't been given the same excuse. No, he was expected to get out there and do his job regardless of who his linemates were. Or guys like St. Louis or Boyle who are expected to be able to play two and three lines deep to the point that they're ready to drop from exhaustion. Just shut-up and put-up (numbers).

Last I checked, hockey players aren't paid to be that 'special someone', they're paid to play hockey. I think that $7.8M should hold a player a little more accountable for their own career than blaming someone else for having short coattails.

If one wants to be one of the Lightning's Four Horsemen, then be prepared to pull the load - and without whinnying!

Oh and to add on. Vinny gave up part of his money on his contract so we could keep Marty too. Wouldn't it be nice if Brad took a leaf out of his book.

Ummm...no Richards didn't win us that cup and didn't deserve the Con Smyth. Habby deserved it. If it wasn't for HIM we wouldn't have won.

[Mike13]

I would agree that Richards' contract handcuffed the Bolts last season, but not this one.

This season's handcuffs we put on by none other than own venerable owner, Davidson. We should have 5-6 million to play with to bring in a bonafide #1 netminder, defenseman, or forward. But we don't. Right now, that's why teams like the Rangers, Avalanche, and Flyers are out there making the headlines. They are allowed to operate at the Salary Cap, not a budget that is about 10-15% less than the cap.

[mike babnik]

i found an interview done by 4 canadian hockey dudes....go to yahoo....type in...brad richards huge contract cbc.ca hotstove....then search.....cbs sports online will come up....hit on it....and see interview about richards....it starts after the first minute and goes on for another 4 minutes.....all i can say is I think these guys are stealing my material......see 4 yourselves, addresses alot of concern.......1 of the 4 loved richards....one of the guys talked twice...oncce out of turn but he was pretty adament on his concerns on how it would hurt the lightning...depth...payroll...how manyh of their other top players they would lose.....anyway it always starts a good argument....go gettem gang....idiot mike

[Shannon Long]

You guys think Richards is overpayed? Richards is gonna put up 90 + points next year with decent linemates and you guys are gonna jump back on the bandwagon. Briere is gonna make 10 million next year. Drury is making 7 million and he hasn't ever had more than 69 points in a season. You forget Richards pretty much won us the stanley cup, and he won the con smyth. He is probably in the top 3 playmakers in the league. (Thortnon, Crosby). The big three's salaries aren't huge anymore that the cap went up.

[bear]

Pretty bang on Rico and if Torts gets this team into the playoffs he should be sainted. I'm sure he feels the same way, thus his outbursts.

I just can't buy the Feaster is great apologists out there.

Take away Vinny and Marty and you now have an AHL team that Norfolk might support.

People seem to gloss over the fact you made Rico about resigning Richards as an RFA. Bolts panicked and blinked.

Brad was restricted and Feaster could have just waited 6 mo. to get a real sense of his value rather than over paying 3 million a year. (For year after year after year). That's the Bolts game set and match right there, let alone trading NHL'ers Norina and Modin for , ahem, Denis.

[Rico]

I have to say, all the Perrin bashing in here is pretty funny. He left town to play a more substantial role (3rd line vs 4th, more minutes) on a better team (division winners, 97pts to 93pts) who offered more money. It isn't rocket science. Go to just about any player in the NHL and tell them "we'll give you more money and let you play more", and they'll take it. If you think it's any different, you're fooling yourselves. And the lower down the totem pole/less money a player is making, the more likely they are to go. If you're making $8m a season, you can pass on an extra $150K for a "home town discount". But when you've never made more than the league minimum, and $150K represents 10% of the total contract offer, that's a different situation. If you got a job offer from another company, and your current employer responded by saying "we'll give you 10% less and offer a more menial role", would you take it? Really?

Patty: Lecavalier, Richards, and St Louis didn't stay because of any affection for Torts, and they didn't turn down big dollars elsewhere. Lecavalier, Richards, and St Louis were all RESTRICTED free agents when the Bolts re-signed them. Which means the only way they could have gone somewhere else was if another team had tendered an offer sheet and the Lightning failed to match it. No teams did so. That's why they are still in Tampa. And despite bidding against only themselves, they still managed to badly over-pay for Richards. Feaster has tied so much cap space up in three players that they can't be a serious player for any top-shelf UFAs. Wouldn't it have been nice to be in the market for a real goalie? Lots of good netminders on the move this off-season. And Tampa hasn't been in the market for any of them, because they can't afford it. So they'll continue to get by with guys who would be a #2 (or in the AHL) on most other teams.

And "Uncle Tim", those three points you made really had nothing to do with Tampa failing to repeat. Did the lockout suck a lot of wind out of the team's sails? Sure. But reason for the lockout, the salary cap, came about to help small and "non-traditional market" teams like Tampa, they were among the teams lobbying for it. Then they tied their own hands with the contracts they gave out. And the rule changes had nothing to do with Tampa's failures, that's easily one of the more foolish statements I've heard in a while. The rule changes, if anything, should have helped Tampa, the changes favor a speed game. But the team has pared itself down to a one line team, and opponents know that if they just shut down Marty and Vinny, they'll win.

Bottom line, coaches are hired to be fired in the NHL. Torts is no different. Ted Nolan was fired a month after he won the Adams for Buffalo. Pat Burns has won it three times for three different teams, and been fired within a couple years each time. Just about every great coach has been fired at one point or another, from Scotty Bowman to Herb Brooks. Tortorella will be fired someday too, there is no such thing as "coach for life" in today's NHL. The risk with evaluating coaches is that they tend to get too much credit when the team succeeds and too much blame when the team fails. At the end of the day, the players have to actually go out and play the game, not the coach. But as the old saying goes, you can't fire all the players, so you fire the coach. Another mediocre season, squeaking into the playoffs as a low seed and exiting early, making more noise off the ice than on, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Torts get the pink slip. He'll coach again somewhere else, and Tampa will move on. That's how the NHL works...

[Another Joe]

Come on Nara! Feaster and Torts were building this team long before Perrin got here. Somoone compared Marty's rookie numbers to Perrins. Lets not forget Marty's rookie numbers were 5 years ago when he was 25 years old. Perrin is now 31 and just finished his first full NHL season.

I dont blame him for taking more money that the way it is now. However Feasters offer to Perrin was more then fair.

And maybe im missing something but Perrin and Marty rarely played on the same line and they werent going to this year.

And also lets not forget the bolts put Perrins name on the cup when he wasnt technically eligible only playing a few games at the end of the year and little in the cup run playoffs.The bolts have shown Perrin plenty of respect. Im not sure its been returned.

Bottom line is i liked Perrin but he wont do anything in Atlanta that will make us miss him that much. My loyalty will go to Torts and Feaster!

[Nara]

We need a new GM and a new Coach, because I believe the team has lost respect for both of these guys. Torts has a 'don't take it to the media' rule for the players, but is not practicing what he preaches. Both him and Feaster got a bit of an ego after the Stanley Cup win, and now is just screwing up this team.

Perrin, you will be missed, and I hope both you and Feds takes it to the Lightning for dissing you guys! It's not Perrin's fault that Richards can't pass, shoot, or score, that's all Brad's doing for being the lazy, whiny, bum that he is! Put Perrin on a better line and you will get results, I promise you that!!! He did amazing with Marty, and after Torts badmouths Marty's best friend... that's just uncool!

[dave douche]

It makes sense to leave for 150,000 dollars if it is your money! That is alot of dough, and a better chance for Perrin to excel on the 3rd line not the 4th. The Thrashers came with more money and better opportunity, really Perrin did the only thing he could, didn't he?

[bolts26]

Bottom line is that Tort's has won this "Vote", and is a keeper. To me he is one of the top 5 coaches in the NHL and Feaster obviously is a great GM, voted 2nd best in all of pro sports. Everyone needs to just let them do their job and stop whining! Everyone acts like we should be in panic mode! When in fact we have been very fortunate to have had 4 straight years of playoffs, and a stanley cup! Lay off Torts, he is very passionate about what he does and his team, I mean he even got a lightning tatoo on his leg! Torts is here to stay whether we like it or not.

[Mike13]

A quick stat check before I jump back into the melee...

Perrin's freshman year (06-07): 82GP, 13G-23A-36Pts-30PIM

St. Louis' freshman year (00-01): 78GP, 18G-22A-40Pts-12PIM

I won't count the ~50 games that he spent with Calgary. His stats really stunk there.

Strikingly similar numbers, although Marty's were back when defensemen were allowed to basically tackle forwards whenever they wanted to and he was 6 years younger than Eric was for his full season debut.

Perrin probably should have stayed and not really listened to the 4th Line Center crap. He wouldn't have been on the 4th line for long. I think what Torts was trying to do was send him a message, a throwing down of the gauntlet so to speak. He did the same thing to the other guys who are now considered stars in this league. Had he stayed and stepped up his game, who knows where he could've taken his game.

Perhaps he took the Thrashers' offer in order to step out from behind Marty's shadow. Given the tenacity that he showed over and over again last season, I doubt that he is running away from Torts.

As for Torts, I think that he is way too abrassive with his players. But hey, who am I to question his methods. Because of his methods, the Bolts have the fewest games lost to injury for 3 seasons running and the "Michael Jordan of Hockey" finally stopped patroling his own blue line (for the most part anyway) and is finally living up to his potential. Not to mention a couple of division championships, an Eastern Conference championship, a Stanley Cup, and 4 straight years in getting into the real dance. Make no mistake, I am by no means in favor of how nasty Torts is to his players publicly. I especially came to dispise how harsh he is on the netminders. I guess, to me, Torts is one of those people who I consider a gigantic jerk with his approach, but he's usually right with what he says. He is right you know. It would have been nice for Grahame to come up with a save during the 04-05 playoffs. It is also true that Tampa gave Eric Perrin a chance when no one else would.

That said, Eric will now try to prove to the hockey world that he can play at the NHL level and that its not only because he is best friends with one of the team's superstars, but its because he really can. But who really knows. We'll see. Like so many things in life, only time will tell. I really liked Eric and I am sad to see him go. It hurts (although not that much) to hear Tortorella rip him a new one. Especially when Perrin seems like a really great guy.

[michael babnik]

satch, i checked on max payroll and you were right.....but you still have nothing to say about the whole darn thing????even at 7.8 he was about 20-30% higher than any other free agent at the time....and even with some huge names this year he is still about 10% than thorton and briere.....and stach please, please for my sanity...don't email all of us and tell us richie is better than thorton and briere....please......my intent always seems to be picked up by some of the readers.....but never by you.....the richards...outside of tampa fans is hammered on every web site from here to russia...new york "post?' quote, double quote....might go down as the worst contract in the history of the nhl....just another idiot writer from new york, right satch??..the fact that 3 of the top 10 or 12 salaries in the whole nhl were our big 3......and it had no effect on how we built the rest of the lines......again, nationwide everyone else did not buy into it...I don't think you can think of any sport at anytime where 3 of the top 10 players in the whole sport were on one team....and i might add....in a salary cap world.....in a hockey world where money is tight.......not even the money hogged new york yankees have ever had a payroll as lopsided as ours....that is my intent satch....and a great deal of the people on this website i think see that....next......the o'brien thing........look it up on the web yourself....o'briens own words.....he wanted to go somewhere where he would play more......the ducks were making a run at the cup.....they would trade one of their top defensemen for futures??? you know that just doesn't make any sense....next....tarnasky, perrin or craig versus fedetenko.......i can't even argue that.......fedetenko has accomplished more in the nhl than any of those guys ever will.....period.....your rebuttals are usually dotting i's and crossing t's......but the fact remains.....we finished the season playing about 12 guys.....our stars played half the game.......and depth according to you was never a problem??? do you have the internet?????type in feaster and richards and contract and see what the rest of the world is saying about his contract.......it ain't pretty!!!!anyway satch, i might be off a few hundred k or a goal here or there....but this team is a shell of the one that one the cup.....make all the reasons you want but we lost some darn good hockey players and replaced them with "projects"......i can not get away from the fact that our top 4-5 guys were all in the top 7 of minutes played.....and I am sure your answer is....that is because torts is smarter than scotty bowman and lindsay ruff and every other coach who ever coached....no one ever dreamed of playing his forwards 28 minutes every fricking night......come on satch,...you gotta see the light just a bit.....but i still love ya, idiot mike

[michael babnik]

satch, i checked on max payroll and you were right.....but you still have nothing to say about the whole darn thing????even at 7.8 he was about 20-30% higher than any other free agent at the time....and even with some huge names this year he is still about 10% than thorton and briere.....and stach please, please for my sanity...don't email all of us and tell us richie is better than thorton and briere....please......my intent always seems to be picked up by some of the readers.....but never by you.....the richards...outside of tampa fans is hammered on every web site from here to russia...new york "post?' quote, double quote....might go down as the worst contract in the history of the nhl....just another idiot writer from new york, right satch??..the fact that 3 of the top 10 or 12 salaries in the whole nhl were our big 3......and it had no effect on how we built the rest of the lines......again, nationwide everyone else did not buy into it...I don't think you can think of any sport at anytime where 3 of the top 10 players in the whole sport were on one team....and i might add....in a salary cap world.....in a hockey world where money is tight.......not even the money hogged new york yankees have ever had a payroll as lopsided as ours....that is my intent satch....and a great deal of the people on this website i think see that....next......the o'brien thing........look it up on the web yourself....o'briens own words.....he wanted to go somewhere where he would play more......the ducks were making a run at the cup.....they would trade one of their top defensemen for futures??? you know that just doesn't make any sense....next....tarnasky, perrin or craig versus fedetenko.......i can't even argue that.......fedetenko has accomplished more in the nhl than any of those guys ever will.....period.....your rebuttals are usually dotting i's and crossing t's......but the fact remains.....we finished the season playing about 12 guys.....our stars played half the game.......and depth according to you was never a problem??? do you have the internet?????type in feaster and richards and contract and see what the rest of the world is saying about his contract.......it ain't pretty!!!!anyway satch, i might be off a few hundred k or a goal here or there....but this team is a shell of the one that one the cup.....make all the reasons you want but we lost some darn good hockey players and replaced them with "projects"......i can not get away from the fact that our top 4-5 guys were all in the top 7 of minutes played.....and I am sure your answer is....that is because torts is smarter than scotty bowman and lindsay ruff and every other coach who ever coached....no one ever dreamed of playing his forwards 28 minutes every fricking night......come on satch,...you gotta see the light just a bit.....but i still love ya, idiot mike

[HockeyQueen]

In defense of Perrin: If anyone bothered to check his numbers against St. Louis' first year one would note that they were pretty much in line...especially when you remember that his very first NHL goal was disqualified on a bogus call (puck was still in motion) as well as one other questionable Toronto disqual. during the season. For an NHL Freshman his numbers were acceptable. His relegation to the 4th line smacks of not being able to finish which impacted someone ELSE's stats year end. Fact.

'Difficult' to sign? To a manager who's counting on him to play the following year, and anticipating undying loyalty? You bet. But Perrin's age doesn't play in his favor, he has to position himself for visibility... disloyal? To a point...but one shouldn't hold it against a man to have his priorities in the right order, regardless of the outcome.

In defense of Torts: He's got a temper. No kidding. I'd rather have him on the bench than some woos... and he's not had too many years as head coach himself to lead a squad of the Bolts' caliber. Not saying that he's not heavy handed, and not saying that he's not made a mistake or few (player crucification seems a real fave), and certainly he could use some lessons in style and diplomacy 101... but that's Torts..

All in all the new NHL isn't really that 'new'... I think our management was better positioned to adjust to the newer rules that the rest of the league was, and have been impacted by deferring to a more technical style of play than the older aggressive style which remains in vogue. Too bad older players aren't in the same camp.

And as a footnote, Feaster remains brilliant.

Last year's squad, with some minor tweaking, held real promise.

[SarasotaBill]

Lisa, never apoligize for a long post! Especially when it makes sense.

We love to hear from our lady fans. Talk all you want! Make no mistake, a woman who can talk hockey is always welcome here. We love ya!!

You.......Nan......and damn, brain cramp on another! LOL

Stay with us, you and Nan! We love to hear from you!

[bear]

Lisa, whats not to love about a Ukrainian girl? Nice post
prechudovyy

Timmy, come on I have never said one bad word about Tortsie. It makes me antsy watching him on the bench, but other than that he gets his cards and plays them.
No one can sqeeze a lemon any drier than him.

Its the front office that drives me up the wall.
Get me the job and I'm there.

[Lisa]

Well, I remember moving here in 1994 and going to see the Lightning in the playoffs against the Flyers. I became a true blue fan from that day forward.

I was there through the really tough times, and I must say, being there for the Stanley Cup run and win was one incredible moment that I will always remember. I found it so emotional to watch these men that went from being in last place just 2 years previously, win the Cup.

There are many people to thank for that, but I must say, I want to thank Feaster and Tortorella for bringing the team that far and that quickly. also, of course Andreychuk was key.

I will support Torts, I think he can be harsh, but at the same time, you know where you stand with him and you know what is expected.

As far as Ruslan, I have always loved him (no, I am not the Ruslan girl, but I am Ukrainian) so he has always been special to me. Who can forget the Stanley Cup run and all he did for our team. Good luck to him, wish him the best. But even with my partiality to him, I am sorry to say that he didn't live up to expectations, especially last year. I don't know if it was the 2 hip surgeries, or what, but I hope he does well, and good luck to him.

I can understand Perrin moving on. I can understand Torts being mad, he did get a chance here when noone else would give him one, but he did work hard with his opportunities. Since he is with a division rival, I wish him well personally, but hope the thrashers crash and burn!

Sorry for the long post, just responding to so much that I have read.

[Tim A]

Well said Patty...
Bear, back at ya brother...you seem to have all the right answers, why don't you apply to become Coach and GM. I'm sure we'd win. Heck we might even become a dynasty.

[Patty]

I like Torts. I think he is a hardworking, decent guy who is passionate about winning hockey games. It must be incredibly frustrating as a coach to have the ingredients for a Cup-winning team only to have many of the players take the money and run. Also, to be hamstrung by the artifically low salary cap forced on him by ownership. I think his passion for the game makes him say things that he later might regret, but who among us can claim to never had said something we later regretted? I disagree with a previous post that said players don't want to come here and that Torts is hated throughout the NHL, or some such nonsense. If that were the case, why didn't Lecavalier sign elsewhere when he had the chance? Richards and St. Louis (who was the league MVP at the time) could have signed for big dollars somewhere else, but they chose to stay here. Why would Brad Lukowich return? Vinny Prospal? Andre Roy seemed very happy to be coming back to Tampa. Johan Holmqvist chose not to test free agency in a thin pool of goalies and sign with Tampa; he probably left some money on the table. Ditto Jason Ward. Why would Michel Ouellet say that Tampa's offer was not the most lucrative offered to him, yet he chose to sign here? Yes, I imagine some players might get tired of a certain style of coaching, but that's no reason to throw out a Jack Adams award-winning coach; let the player move on. All of us get disenchanted at work sometimes and decide that it's time to burnish the 'ole resume; doesn't mean management gets fired. I think the position of head coach in professional sports must be one of the most difficut jobs out there; fans demand a championship every year, most players want big raises each contract period and owners prefer maximum profits on minimum spending. Keep on truckin' Torts.

[Satch]

My good friend Michael. Are you a glutton for punishment or what? This is unreal!! I can't believe you continue to do this. Thanks for the laughs though. I appreciate it.

You broke the news about Feds when everyone else on the planet knew he would play elsewhere next year. Your on it!!! He played himself down from the top 2 lines to a healthy scratch. Maybe you missed that. He's on your "virtual all star team?' I don't need to address the all star team. Goldenbolt has done that and in fine fashion I might add.

Got nothing to say about that after being called upon? What a surprise!

I love the comment about the 6 or 7 guys we have as minimum wage guys. Gave me a great opportunity. Let's look at one of your virtual all stars. Fedotenko. From January 1st of last year, with 42 games left in the season, Rusty bagged a whopping 2 goals. OHHHH Take my breath away. Oh wait, it was because we had all these minimum wage guys and we all know they all suck. I see a few interesting stats here since you like the numbers. Shall we look at them?

Here's a look at a few minimum wage, or very near, players who you seem to think are useless.

During the same time Rusty was struggling for ice time and getting beat out of it by these low life minimum wage guys, scoring 2 goals in the last 42, I think it's important to see what they were bringing.

Craig - 5 goals

Perrin - 4 goals

And the mighty goal scoring machine - Nick Tarnasky - 4 goals.

Feds - 2 goals

Damn...............I really wish we could have kept that "virtual all star!"

You get called on that and you have nothing to say about it? Come on dude, defend your honor!

You made one of the most off the wall comments I've ever seen. Something about JF pulling a florida marlins? I asked you about it. Nothing to say? No explanation?

I called you on O'Brien being a #7 guy in Anaheim when he was a clear #4. You come back and tell me his time was diminishing. Once again, I prove you wrong........and it ends. Tough to answer BS isn't it?

You avoid any responsibility of the facts and here is how you respond to things you can't answer because there is none...

"pleaseeeeee.... after all the signings of big name free agents you still are adament that the richards contract was not a huge mistake....."

As your spell checker I will say that it's "adamant." Good try though!

Please tell me where you and I discussed Richards or his contract and most importantly, explain yourself on how I'm "adamant" on something I have never commented on. Go back forever and show me where I have even commented on the contract let alone being "adamant" about this contract being justified. Show me how I did that just once. Your on the clock dude. Defend yourself like any self respecting person would. Unless of course you can't!! I don't expect to hear from you on that anymore than I expected you to respond to any other thing you have been proven wrong about.

One last thing.........as you posted.....

"WHEN BRAD RICHARDS signed he was signed for the largest amount he possibly could of got..let me be clear....he could not of held out for even one more penny from anyone.....feaster gave him the MAX..."

Do you think everyone here is stupid? When Ritchie signed, the cap had been raised to 44.mil or something near that. The max payroll would then be somewhere between 8.8 and 9 mil. And he got the max? Good Lord brother. Express your opinions all you want but please express them based on truth. You have expressed opinions based on BS and now is the time to make your case.

Until you answer these things I have no more interest in talking to you. Defend yourself or not. All eyes are on you. Either defend your comments or not. The balls in your court!!

Your Friend.......Satch

[bear]

Ludzig a moron? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Actually the pot is likely writing some of the posts too..pass some along.

Feaster isn't really getting the full critism he deserves on the idiotic Richards contract that cripples the club now and for years to come. How many of you are aware that when he signed Richards to that "contract" Richards was actually a RESTRICTED free agent still a full season away from any ability to move? Feaster could have just matched any offer. No GM would have offered what he did.

Secondly as bad as the Modin deal was, how many are aware that Feasty included a goalie in that deal along with Modin?
His name, Frederick Norina. His record last year in the NHL with Columbus 24 wins , 2.78 GAA .904 save percentage with a non playoff team.

Not only did Thornton sign a 7 million a year 5 year contract renewal so did Jerome Iginla..Richards isnt in that class but for the last two years has been making much much more.

Crazy crazy crazy.

I don't know how they ever recover from both those mistakes.

BTW, Kubina was paid 20 over 4 years not 5.8 a year, but heh why quibble.

[Johnny]

1) It isn't the commisioner fault that they have a salary cap, and the lock out was because of the greed of the players. Your statement might be true if you left the commish out of it.

2) The goalie wasn't the only one to run. Sydor, Cullimore, Stillman and Lukowich. Losing three D doesn't help the cause, especially experienced one. Prospal came in and Stillman out. Why not have both. Then you lose a Modin for a crap goalie. Imagine our second line if we still had those two with Ricahards. Yes they players we lost didn't amount to much, but we didn't get anything in return.

3) Rule changes were said to help teams like Tampa Bay. The speed game was in our favor. the momentum was lost because of the year off and that the new guys coming to Tampa weren't as experienced. They fit the system, but you need time on a line to be able to work well together. Torts, the juggler, did to much of that in late March and April this year for the players to see if they would be comfortible with certain players or not. Way to close to the playoffs for that. A good reason why they dropped so many late games.

[michael babnik]

satch, as you can see half the guys think i am nuts...the other half....they are nuts!!!!we had 8 minimum wage---or near it----players on the roster last year.....i named 8 players we lost-----allstars-----olympians----and one of you guys actully stated.....player by player...why we should of lost all of them... we couldn't keep all of them, but geeze did we pay a price for keeping the top 3....guys!!!! we had last year....3 of the top 12 paid players in hockey.....i do not believe any other gm would agree with this path to the cup....not one....and i would of felt better if he would of went a little deeper and said how each and every replacement were better than the bums we dropped....but he stopped with a simple explanation that kubina and stillman etc were all overpaid losers.....once again the theory that jay knows more than all the other idiot gm's....all i know is our third and fourth lines had about a total of 50-60 "career" nhl goals among them......but you see no drop off since the cup year????.....you may argue why the drop off....but how can you argue the dropoff??? by the way....i can not wait to see your thoughts on this.....joe thorton just signed for 7.2 million the cap being 50 million.....when richards signed he signed for 7.8 mil with a 39.2 cap.....but silly me....that has nothing to do with our inability to keep or resign or sign up new "proven" nhl player instead of 6-8 31 year old rookies/journeyman????pleaseeeeee....
after all the signings of big name free agents you still are adament that the richards contract was not a huge mistake.....get on the internet I found an article in montreal and one out of new york that basically said the same thing......it is the wrost contract in nhl "history" ......you can still love the bolts without daring to question there blunders.....feaster has been financially irresponsible....period....i wish i could take out an add in the st. pete times and get a poll. WHEN BRAD RICHARDS signed he was signed for the largest amount he possibly could of got..let me be clear....he could not of held out for even one more penny from anyone.....feaster gave him the MAX.....and no one has even sniffed this contract despite two raises in the cap.......somehow i think the majority of tampa bay would be alot nearer my opinion than yours....but...take care....love, idiot mike

[Tim A]

Hey Uncle Rico, Maybe you weren't here in 2004 when the Lightning won the Cup. Tampa Bay was cheated out of another cup or a chance to repeat as Cup champions thanks to three events... 1) the stupidity of the NHL Commisioner to enact a salary cap and cause a one year lockout 2) the greediness of a Russian goaltender who left the Bolts and went to a loser team for about a hundred grand more a year. 3) The un-timely rule changes altered the Bolt's momentum and destroyed their chances or repeating as Cup Champions.

All of these problems were not advantagous to the Bolts but I never heard any of the Lightning Coaches or staff whine about it ever. Torts and Feaster were blessed with a championship team but a league in utter turmoil. What would you have done, Mr. Genious, I suppose you have all the answers. You and many others like you are the typical arm-chair GM's and coaches that think you know it all and have the answers.
Torts style is one of gruffness and perfection, but I tell you the man's heart is big as the Gulf of Mexico. Torts always has and always will demand perfection from his team and players but they must buy in to what he preaches. Players must perform to a high level of exellence or they are sytematically removed. If players don't like it... that's too bad. Torts and Feaster have my respect because they have utter control of the situation at all times and they don't allow the inmates to run the asylum the way allot of the candy a*# teams out there do.

Since Bill Davidson bought the Lightnng and installed the current management the Tampa Bay Lightning have been a competative, top-notch orgazation, mostly due to the Coaching of John Tortarella.

We had a Steve Ludzig in here and others before him. They were all wash outs and morons, heck one of them couldn't even read. At least with this coach we have a proven winner, he backs off when he gets too heavy into the Butts but he knows when to stop the madness and knows when to turn it up.

Given the current list of players, I know that they are just as capable of winning more than any other team out there. Everyone can't be a superstar but they can all find their nitch in the team and make a contribution.

Ask Daniel Snyder of the Redskins if he could do it over what he would have done different and I bet you he would tell you, I'd build around a few good leaders. We have them here with 4 great players. These guys don't need much to take them back to Glory. I trust that Jay Feaster and John Tortarella know what they are doing and until they completely fall on their face or shoot themselves in the foot or blow their leg completely off, they deserve the chance to repeat as Cup Champions.
It wasn't their fault that a big pile of the NHL commisioner's crap heaped up on their shoulders and they shouldn't be held to a different standard than everyone else.

[Rico]

Thought I'd chime in with the view of things from someone who follows the Bolts from way up north. In most hockey circles, Torts' rep as a coach is unfortunately exceeded by his rep as an absolute raving blowhard. Some of the biggest dis-incentives free agents have to signing with the Bolts are these routine eruptions from Mt Tortorella. Yup, he won a Cup back in '04. Since then, the Bolts have squeaked into the playoffs as a 7/8 seed and failed to get out of the first round (heck, they've failed to even make the two series competitive). He can only live on that 2004 Cup for so long. Hard-a** Keenan style coaches, regardless of the sport, have one thing in common; The act wears thin eventually, and the players tune him out. Happened to Keenan everywhere he's been, happened to Hitchcock in Dallas and Philly, happened to Parcells in every NFL city he's been to, and it's happening in Tampa right now. The thoughts of many in the NHL are best expressed by a recent posting from Adam Proteau of The Hockey News:

----------

What a charmer. Perhaps the notion that worker bees such as Perrin only have a limited window to make a financial splash hasn’t yet occurred to Tortorella. Perhaps the Lightning coach would rather there be an "indentured servitude" clause in the collective bargaining agreement.

Or maybe the guy is just a sour, mean-spirited control freak. If Oilers GM Kevin Lowe is looking for a way to sell Edmonton to free agents, "Tortorella Doesn’t Work Here" might be as good a slogan as any.

[Pete]

I don't blame Perrin at all. You see how much time the third line gets in Tampa, and the the fourth line is lucky to average 3 minutes a game. Eric was grateful to get his chance in the NHL and wants to continue to play in it. If he was greedy, he would take his paycheck with the Lightning and just play those 3 minute (plus penalty kill time). It looks to me he wants to contribute more.

Perrin is a Center. It is tough to transition to the wing after playing there for so many years. He did an ok job while playing with Brad, but had many scoring chances and couldn't finish. Mostof the time is because he was being knocked on his butt by the defense...so if he wants to succeed in the NHL at center, he better bulk up a little and be able to be on his blades and not his a$$.

Finally Torts has a way with words. Yes he wants to send a message, but his choice of words are classic. Does he have a goal to alienate someone every year?

Torts also seems to have tunnel vision on the top two lines, and when a player plays well on the other two lines he brings them up until the flater. Artyukin would be a huge force if given a chance, but good riddance (imagine him and Tanarsky on the same line). Blair Jones has the talent, but never has gotten the ice time. It took until after the playoffs to recognize Karllson. Who will be next?

[Lightning rod]

Michael B., as I was reading your unsigned volume of mostly angry opinions, I was thinking of a name that might be a fit for you. Mr ..... to me would have been a good one, until you typed in your name on one of your posts. Where you see loss and bad moves, I see overall organizational improvement. Add up the cap money given to feds, sydor, cullimore, kubina, and sarich. The total $$ for just them is to much for any team to handle. With the exception of maybe Sarich, they are being paid to much for their skill/production level. With the cap structure in place, keeping players and a team together for years is no longer realistic or possible.

I remember how really bad the Lightning were pre-2001, and making the playoffs was just another dream. If someone had of told me in 2002 that the Lightning would win the CUP and be in the playoffs 4 years in a row, I would still be laying on the floor laughing; and I would have missed it all. Look at Buffalo, and see the results of the cap. Maybe we all will be surprised by the Lightning team this year or next, then maybe not.

[goldenbolt]

A couple of points:

All Star: cully traded and dumped. Montreal ate the rest of the 3mil a year contract.
Habby: The biggest five hole in chicago history. Not the same player, out of shape, injury prone...... another chicago all star being dumped.

Kubina: toronto fans rip his butt after each game. 6mil ok 5.8 for NADA, NOTHING.......

Stillman: Lost due to arbitration. He could only be signed for 3.9 mil a year by the bolts out of the lockout. Carolina inked him for 1 mil. Thank you arbitration.

Andy: He should have retired after the cup year. they tried I watched the games he had no more legs. I will always cherish his cup dance.

Sydor: He wanted 3 mil a year and played like crap for the Bolts in 06. Not worth it and is now bouncing along to his next team. All star????? give me a break.

Feds: What a bust. nothing in the last two playoffs..... point total fell of the map. no longer could finish, often disapeared during the game. You'd look up and he played 12 - 14 minutes and you did not even notice him on the ice.

Sarich: Do you really think he is worth 3.7 mil a year? give me break. He was useful when he used his body...... he gave that up after the cup.

perin: He could not finish. He had ample opportunity. Remember, they did not think he would play much last year. He worked his way onto a very weak 2nd line. He chose to go...... to play on the 3rd line. Time will tell won't it.

So much for the all stars....

NYR: Gomez - 7.5 mil, drury, 7 mil, what do they sign, shanahan, lundqvist, avery with? Soda pop!!!! Oh, by the way Jagr's salary is what.....

[bear]

Sure Tim

As you may have noted, there are a line up of bonifide free agents knocking Tampa's door down to play for the guy.

sheesh