Should we hear from Koules?
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March 09, 2008

Should we hear from Koules?

A reader brought up an interesting point in response to today's story about Hollywood producer Oren Koules, who is trying to buy the Lightning.

I said in the story I believed Koules needs to be heard about such topics as keeping the team in Tampa, signing Lecavalier, others in his ownership group, payroll and the basic question of how much he wants to win. The reader said Koules doesn't owe anyone an explanation. It is the current Lightning ownership and management that has to give answers.

My response was that if Koules is going to own the team, it is his voice that, at this point, is paramount. What this team is going to do going forward is much more important, I believe, that rehashing what has gone wrong. And we certainly have beaten those reasons to death; bad personnel decisions (especially at goal), horrible drafting, allowing free agents to depart without compensation instead of trading them at the deadline.

Still, I thought it worth a discussion. Like I said, I'm in favor of knowing more about the guy who is going to own the team than going over again what we already know has brought the team down. That's why I want to hear from Oren.

By the way, how about Vinny finally scoring after going 12 without a goal. How about Marty scoring? And how about that it happened after they were taken off each other's line? ... And we knew Mike Smith was eventually going to get burned with all his puck-handling, didn't we? ... How much do we like Jeff Halpern?

   

Comments

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I about spilled my beer when I saw Smith come that far out of the goal to challenge someone who was already being defended. Any further out and I'd have expected him to puck handle to the other side and shoot on goal himself. Alas, at this point we just have to look forward to next year. We'll see how the draft picks go.

I love the posts "Oren Koules". They are fabulously humorous.

Bolts72, you are right about the impact of the sale. It has to get resolved before free agency begins because who will sign on to a team that has that type of issue looming. YOu don't know who will be coach, or GM or who will still be on the team. Too much of a risk for any free agent to take.

IMO this entire season was affected in a very negative way by the potential sale of the team. NO ONE is stepping up to let the players and fans really know what is going on. NHL and present ownership are really at fault. Until OK Hockey actually owns the team are they held accountable. Unfortunately this has affected the fan base and will require an immediate impact star from the entry draft in June and acquisitions of quality FAs this summer to rectify.

That will be nice anyway. That is in my wish list

Well will see, I thing that son or later, Torts will go on public, and he going to say that he is resigning because this and that, and that hi make same mistakes too, and that its time to try to take a break…blab la bla…
I hope that is going happened, and I think very soon.

Rudy,

Richards said that after he left, and he really had no reason to talk about the team (and he said that Tortorella and Feaster built the team the right way and now outsiders were ripping it apart). So he basically came out against Koules and in complete support of Feaster and Tortorella. And i also know people that know Brad, and they were always saying that Brad is completely supportive of Tortorella.

I don't know if Vinny is as supportive. If you look, no matter how poorly Brad played, he was never punished for it and never called out for it. Torts was always supportive of him, even when his bad pass would result in the other team's game winning goal. But Vinny is constantly criticized publicly by Tortorella, and yesterday was even demoted to play with Tarnasky and Lessard. I think that is going over the top, and if Vinny really has given up on the season/team, then maybe Tortorella does need to look at himself and see if he is the cause. But I am not going to jump to conclusions and because of that, I feel that before any changes are made by the new regime, they need to talk to the key players and find out what is really goin on in the team and the locker room.

That is way they don’t have problem like other organizations, baseball, football…
It’s no drugs nothing. Maybe we just don’t know about it everything stay inside.

It’s like Military, so you better understand. NHL has stricter rules then anybody else.

Lisa, they can’t comment on coach, referees… that is in NHL rules. What Prospal did, it was against rules, possibly he got fined for that. Its big business, all are part of it. Brad was just saying what they told him to say. If he want play, he has no choice. That are NHL rules. They are presenters of big company.

They just can’t comment on inside situations.

I don't see any reason why Koules would look to move the team to Las Vegas. We have one of the higher attendances in the league, and that is even with the economy going bad and the team playing poorly.

As far as answering questions, sure, I would love to see him answer some questions, but if the league has actually place a gag order on him, I can understand him staying quiet until the process is resolved. Maybe by listening to the league, the process could be sped up a bit. If he alienates them by going against their orders/wishes, then they can drag their feet a bit longer and make the process more difficult for him.

I hope that when/if he does purchase the team, the first thing he will do is meet with the top players and talk to them about what is going on, and what they feel the problem is. I hate to see people coming in and thinking they know everything and not listening to the input of the people that are currently in the situation and have the inside knowledge about what is happening.

I don't know if or when Tortorella lost the team. I do know Vinny and marty are not playing with the same intensity we saw at the beginning of the season, or in the last few years. However, to automatically blame it on Tortorella without the input from them is jumping to conclusions. It may be the problem, or there may be something else going on.

Something I find interesting is that Brad was completely supportive of Feaster and Tortorella when he left, and yet he looked like he had quit the team 2 years ago. Does Vinny also support Tortorella, how about Marty, Danny? There may be something going on that we know nothing about (in fact, I guarantee there are lots of things going on we know nothing about), but the players should have their say before any decisions are made, one way or the other.

Vinny needs to be kept. I know the second half of the season has been a disappointment, but we know what he can do, and I expect him to be back to that form next season.

Anyway, that is my say, we now have to wait until May or June or whenever to really get a better idea of what will be happening with the team. And of course, July, when the team can extend Vinny's contract, if that will be happening.

Oren,
Thanks for the responses. PLEASE, keep tuned into the blog. There is a lot of venting, but there are some excellent insights. Being a military man, it is always a HUGE + to know your people. In this case, your audience.

I dont envy your job a bit. A lot of big decisions ahead of you. I HOPE that the bolts make a very good pick-up with their draft pick.

Also, as far as the stadium is concerned, what changes might we see next season?

Q - Oren:

Is there any truth to the rumor that Andre Roy will be released or traded by Feaster at the behest of Coach Tortorella, and the primary color of the Lightning uniforms will be changed to pink?

Posted by: Ahh..nonviolence in the NHL! March 10, 2008 at 02:36 PM

A - (This team in pink? Some of these guys could wear pink and be proud. Maybe some do. Trade bait as far as I'm concerned. Oh....the Lightning and Andre!) The answer is "Andre brings a certain element that has lacked here over the last few years. I will talk to Andre, after taking full control of this team, and we will go from there."

Oren:

Is there any truth to the rumor that Andre Roy will be released or traded by Feaster at the behest of Coach Tortorella, and the primary color of the Lightning uniforms will be changed to pink?

Q - Very clever but how come nothing about Koules' role model Mark Cuban?

Posted by: jr | March 10, 2008 at 02:05 AM

A - Cuban a role model? Not for me. I'm much prettier than he is! Next........


Q - Here is a question for Oren. With the team slumping to the bottom of the NHL, how do you justify increased $ in season ticks?

Posted by: Tackleberry | March 10, 2008 at 08:16 AM

A - PSE is upping ticket prices? I'm shocked!! They didn't tell me that. I hope I can get this thing closed before the increase goes through. All I can say is I will be accountable for any future ticket increase AFTER I own the team. I guess you need to ask PSE about any changes in ticket prices. It's out of my hands. For now anyway! At this point I have no plans to raise ticket prices after taking ownership. PSE has already done the dirty work for me.

Q - How about some reassignments. Do you guys think Torts would be good at leading the scouting department?? The guy we have now(Gertzen?) hasnt really done anything.

Posted by: Another Joe | March 10, 2008 at 12:49 PM

A - (Torts a scout? He can't see 40 feet across the ice and we want him to judge talent? He can't see he's taking a few years off some players careers by playing them 30 minutes a game? being a scout takes a keen eye for talent and the ability to remain emotionless in evaluating talent. 2 qualities he clearly doesn't have.) For the record the answer is " John has been a huge part of this team and his expertise is behind the bench."

Can't say I disagree. We picked up Khabibulin when? I think it was March 2002 and we were out of it as usual. But he came in for a couple of games to let the gang know things were going to be very different in 2002/03 and they were. Then we saw a *slight* improvement the year after that. So the time is getting ripe all right. Some things are over-ripe and need a heave-ho.

It hurts and it s**ks but it is also madness. I stood by the Man and said 'fire the team, not Coach', only to look the fool in my mirror. It's like repeatedly hitting yourself in the head with a ball peen hammer; it feels awfully good when you stop.

No tears for Torts.

He started with a 20 card hand and won a cup. He still stayed in the game when it got down to 3 cards.

Easily he has another, better head coaching gig assuming they realese/pay him prior to summer.
The decent time to do it is now.

He has to learn he is working basically for us, he is no God, and he is there to help players, they are not his slaves, but talented guys who are making money so he can get his paycheck. He has to learn some human bean respect. Wait after game and credit a players when they do god job while they leaving from ice, not run over them to be first in lock room. Maybe he has prostate problem.

He has to go to Canada, learn how to be nice, and how to listen . They will teach him to be nice. With his attitude he has now, will not last long, like after game interview.

That what I was praying for before they start trading. For right change, which would be change coach, and listen to new one on who to get. Those two hockey geniuses already screw up more than enough for my taste. That is way Torts can’t be in scouting department, because I thing most of those trades are from him. Like he coach them before, or new them, or Martys friends.

How about some reassignments. Do you guys think Torts would be good at leading the scouting department?? The guy we have now(Gertzen?) hasnt really done anything.

Also do you guys think Andy could go right into a head coaching job or maybe making him Sullivan's assistant would be a better move?

Im sure Andy would be good but turning over the reigns to him right away im not sure about.

Im not against a change but it needs to be the right change.

In newspaper last week he mentioned that “part” of it his fault, but you right.
It’s money!

Agreed Rudy, but you know that he won't.
That's admitting failure.

I think, Torts going to resign, then they don’t have to pay him. All those guys who Olin mentioned not going to be too expensive.

Joe it will be someone who works cheap because they will still have Torts on the payroll. My bet is Sullivan.

Joe,
this is post from Olin:
If I were GM as I've alway's maintained, it'd be Andreychuk, Ramsey and Larry Robinson,Esposito in any order.

Id like to hear from him but I understand his silence for now from a business point of view. i also understand him being in on trade talks.

Also Dudley gets some credit but not all. Feaster brought in Stillman,Sydor, Grahame(lets not forget he was a big part of our cup season even though a bust as a #1).

Why not credit Art Williams he was owner when V4 was drafted?

If they were to get rid of Torts who would they bring in? Any ideas?

Here is a question for Oren. With the team slumping to the bottom of the NHL, how do you justify increased $ in season ticks? Herb is one case to where his tickets were increased $400. Dont know what seats will have changes in $. Luckily, my seats stayed the same price (Section 206 row B seat 3 and 4 the Marty Pack).

Can you post the 2008-09 ticket prices? Or do you DARE, in fear of chasing off potential buyers for season tickets?

I plan on renewing my 1/2 season tickets. I am planning on adding a 3d seat for my 2 yr old son.

In my opinion, the honorable way to keep the fans is to keep the ticket prices the same. Why should the fans pay for the mis-management of the past 2 years? When this team turns around, then increase prices (a little).

With the economy, foreclosures, job loss in Tampa, and a 2nd-to-last place team, good luck trying to sell tickets.

Oh ya, thanks for the earlier post.

I love the Bolts, but make it more apealing during these HARD TIMES.

Damian Cristodero wrote:
“But after Sunday's 5-3 loss to the Blue Jackets at Nationwide Arena, in which two Smith misplays led to goals, including Jason Chimera's winner with 3:44 left…….
Here we go again! That is what I meant , when I set, it’s only matter of time, when they will start going after goalie. Now is his fault, his mistakes, everybody else , specially Torts are perfect.
When Boile made hat trick to our net, nobody mentioned it. Somehow this guy, Damian Cristodero, is against any goalies we had, but Dennis, he like him. First day perfect best goalie we ever have, and now last place will be his fault. See how easy it is , to solved problem in our hockey! It’s goalie stupid! This must be from Torts, Damian can’t be so stupid. Or he is on Torts payroll.

True enough wiggy, I’m no financier. But I’ve never willingly (wink) left a card game topless. And I have left a tooth on a frozen lake. (Well not really, I still have it in a jewelry box. Wonder how the other guys made out?)

Your point is solid; he usually makes movies for 1/10 of this enigma. Anything this big is going to take an awful lot of help. Right too, about the devaluation.

Man, can they really pull off swiping the Bolts from beneath us in this manner? Can anything that diabolical be that competent? If so, then we’ve lost our kids, because everywhere you go today is rife with short attention spans and rank incompetence. Big bucks and people who know what the heck they are doing will attract more and more of our youth in America. Sad.

"There are negotiations being made that are going to answer all of your questions and solve all of your problems. That's all I can tell you right now."

---Michael Corleone, Godfather I
---Oren Koules, Deal Gone Bad II

The figures you threw out, Casper, are way beyond the thinking of the underfinanced prospective owner. He can't get a loan for a lot less than that.

And I agree with jr that the franchise is worth less than $206M. Maybe the banks see it that way too.

Don’t care for or about Koules. I’m not seeing more or less integrity than the Michigan hermit. What am I saying? What lately in this country, does integrity have anything to do with 2-300 million dollars?

And 300 won’t hack it. You’ve got to shell out some serious quesadillas to fix this Yugo. Figure 300+ in acquisition and operation for 24 months, and 100 million to repair the foundations---the minors/global scouting---and another Ace for hurricane[sic] relief. Balance your return against that sort of an outlay, and it’s the old poker slogan- ‘Go big or stay at home’, Oren. I’ve said before, he should marry in to Davidson’s family if he wants to have toy Bolts. (Say that three times fast…) Or we could ask Elin Nordegren (Mrs. Tiger Woods) if she’d like another hobby.

Spot on Ajax, we need to have a four letter word with Coach.
Ta-ta counts, don’t it?

Herb, *It is hard for a NHL team to compete with AHL talent.* Right on Bro, the b alls of that is they aren’t 19 year old AHLers that will command payback someday soon.

Very humorous and true on point commentary by Oren and his Press Secretary. If his movies were that clever, he’d have to ask no one for money to buy the Club.


Hang in there Big Mike! Two brain dumps in one game, so what? Rather have a real dude like you backstopping than some cardboard clown. Welcome to the Lightning, sorry we are best at bringing out the worst in net minders. Please hang in there and don’t disintegrate. Help is coming and then we’ll all begin stomping forward together as a new unit.

Nice to see V4 and MSL show signs of life. Hey Coach, this is one of those instances where the forwards try to steal a game for your goalie, for a change. Oh forget it, who am I asking?

Can we at least give the Islanders a rough time?

Even if Oren Koules finds the financing to buy this team for over $200 million, he'd be crazy not to consider his current investments in this prospective investment a sunk cost and run (not walk) away from this deal.

As has been soundly pointed out by other posters: except for three players on this team, the talent base has been meaningfully depleted; the drafting has been a disaster for years; the minor league (development and feeder system) for the Lightning is, to all intents and purposes, bankrupt; this team is bereft of any depth (requiring the call-up of largely unsuccessful AHL-grade players to fill in the roster); the coach has ripped the heart and will out of these players (and, incidentally, he needs to be Baker-Acted); the GM is a bulbous dummy who tends to brandish his ignorance about hockey every time he opens his cakehole; the value of the 5 1/2 acres attached to the deal appears to be declining in value at this particular time (and, it might be a long wait before it bounces back); fan support appears to be extremely compromised by the team's poor performances and the management's ouster of some popular players; and, nobody seems to have confidence in this floundering group (who the hell is involved in this melange, anyway?) that wants to buy in.

Particular thanks for bullseyes from jr, olin, ajax, and the entertaining guy who called himself Oren Koules. A salute to DC as well for sending a coded message to Koules who may have a lot more to learn from the people who contribute comments at this site than he does by listening to the prevarications of Wilson and Campbell, the blither of the current GM, or the apoplectic rantings of Coach Queeg.

Very clever but how come nothing about Koules' role model Mark Cuban?

Didn't expect to hear anything else did you?

His actions will speak louder than any words you will hear from him right now. For the time being, he'll keep his mouth shut as Bettman and PSE have requested.

I'll answer anything you want to know!!

Q- Do I have plans to move the team?

A- (If I did, I certainly wouldn't say so. I already watched Bettman cut one guy off at the knees for his plans to move a franchise. If I was planning to move, I'll hold the league's feet to the fire after I own the team. Not before.) So...the answer is "I love Tampa and have NO intention of moving the team!!"

Q - Do you plan on signing Vinny to a long term deal?

A - (If I was to say no it would create panic among the faithful. Can't do that. I need the ticket sales to pay the debt on the loan I may or may not get. What road I decide to take after the purchase will determine if I sign him or not.) Till then the answer is "I love Vincent Lecavalier and have every intention to keep him in a Bolt jersey for the rest of his career!!"

Q - Will you keep Torts and JF?

A - (If I let it be known they are history within hours of the closing, how is the team going to respond? Torts will ask em doing pushups in practice and they will look at him and laugh. "you kiddin coach? I'm gonna be here next year, are you? go scr$w yourself!" After a statement like that JF won't care about taking care of anything since it won't be his problem anymore.) So the answer is "I have a lot of respect for these guys. They built a winner here and that's not easy. As is typical in organizations we will review everything at years end and go from there. As for now, I look forward to working with these guys to bring us back to the finals!!"

Q - Where do you think the team will be as far as salary next season?

A - (I knew this was coming. If I go low, I might as well kiss off season ticket sales. If I go high and don't spend it then I'm a lying cheap basta$%. Watch me skate through this trap.) The answer is "After closing we will sit down and determine what we need to add to this team. There are a lot of roster issues to deal with as far as potential trades, buyouts, and so on. I have no set dollar figure for salaries but I can assure you I'm buying this team to make it a winner and I will spend whatever it takes to make that happen while being as fiscally responsible as possible."

Q - What seems to be the hold up with financing?

A - (It's none of your business actually. Can't say that though. Let me baffle em with somemore bs.) The answer is "We are moving along and progressing everyday. Closing is in the very near future. The economic environment has changed and dotting the I's and crossing the T's is more time consuming then in past years. As for now everything points to a sooner than later closing."

Thank you for your interest. Feel better now?

I am waiting to see when the Times runs a poll: "Should Tortorella be retained for next year?"

I frankly don't trust PSE or Koules and if either of these parties did actually come out and say something, I don't know if I would believe them so it doesn't matter.

I would truly like to see Torts gone, I am tired of his antics with the star players. If Vinny and Marty didn't like the Tampa Bay area so much, I don't think they would want to remain here.

It will be an interesting summer.

Nailed it Jr.

"An astute lender won't fall for that crap. Their research would show a deteriorating fan base, an inferior product to sell, no TV revenue to speak of, depreciating land values, and the uncertainty of retaining the centerpiece of the franchise".

Add one more bullet point..they lost 20 million in a good economy. Florida has done a 180 in that respect. Any banker understands the economy first and foremost.

The bellweather will be LeCavalier who should know.

The cap space comment was in response to Steve's expressed hope, nothing you wrote olin.

Why do you think the saved cap space will be used for that purpose? Do you think PSE will suddenly boost its self-imposed cap?

The ownership situation is key. Unfortunately, the new guy is no Warren Buffet. He has been vetted by who knows how many lending institutions and still can't procure financing.

PSE and Koules are taking steps to improve their balance sheet and projected income. They will present potential lenders with increases in ticket prices and will base projections on this year's attendance. They will project the same $42 million, maybe less, in player salaries in order to show a year-to-year gain in net income. They will inflate the value of the land and whatever fantasy development they conjure up. They will present an unrealistic timeline for completion of the development.

An astute lender won't fall for that crap. Their research would show a deteriorating fan base, an inferior product to sell, no TV revenue to speak of, depreciating land values, and the uncertainty of retaining the centerpiece of the franchise.

We've got a present ownership that won't spend because they see themselves in it for the short term. The potential owner lacks the financial wherewithal to obtain a loan without the above financial hocus pocus.

One more thing: this franchise is not worth $206 million or anything close to it.

thank's jr, you are also right with what you say. PSE is the problem, just seem's they do not care about this franchise and the fan's who support it. Who ever said that we the blogger's here represent probably thousand's of fan's the same viewpoint's we discuss here is so right... We DO want hockey here, I love it, never played it, but played other sport's, and wish I had the opportunity to play it. It's arguably the best contact sport there is. I truley admire these guy's and their profession. I am just so sad to see how this team has fallen from the rank's. I was down there right behind the bench for game 7, I high five'd Pavel when he came by for the fan's he could reach, my camera was hot and went through 2 set's of batteries afterward's- it was awesom...
Now what do we got???An angry coach ripping apart the player's constantly for this and that, a GM who does try to make good decison's, but has failed numerous time's. It all seem to start when Mo was required to come back to tampa instead of celebrating with his team in Stockholm, that's when the downhill run started. Retiring the "CAPT. hurt as well. So what happen's now???? We get a good draft pick, and re-build, what other choice do we have...but please do it with a new coach and GM, which should have been done long,long ago at the beginning of the season same time as Cap's-Thrasher's by PSE, but no, they let it ride and the fan's got s____'d. Now believe it or not it may happen again next year if OK deal fall's. I've been doing ticket's for 9 season's myself, not as long as some, but long enough to realize my money is staying in my pocket until their is a coaching change with respectable new blood. It's time for Tort's to go and Feaster as well. This team need's new life,spirit and leadership.

Dont care who owns this bucket of crap of a business/team. Wont be getting any more of my money until something msjor changes at the team level. New coach, some NHL caliber players...whatever it takes. If PSE is losing money as it is, what will next season be like for profitablity with no changes.
Vinny and Marty are always going to score, thats what they do. May have a dry spell here and there, but not for long. As for Halpern who was for the first time in his career with a good team in Dallas....its deja vu buddy. Welcome back to the cellar. Poor guy has always been on a dog team despite his effort.

Bill, I agree with much of what you said. Dudley built the Stanley Cup team, what has Feaster done? That's right, he traded Modin and Norrena for Denis and overpaid for Richards. Our scouting staff, under Feaster's watch, has failed us. Alright he acquired Sydor, but he was hardly a key to our cup run. We have one of the worst defenses in the NHL and he's failed to fill our goaltending need for years (hopefully until now with Smith). And as previously mentioned, we have a roster lacking in NHL talent. I do think the Richards trade was the right move, I just hope he takes advantage of the cap space it creates to build our defense and round out our top lines. We'll see?

Who is in charge? My answer: current ownership. Until the team is sold, I don’t want to hear about Koules. Period.

And there is no escaping that the level of the talent on this team has dropped precipitously since the Stanley Cup win. Comparing that roster to the current one is a depressing exercise. Sure, we lost a couple players to injury and retirement, but too many got away with little in return.

Feaster seems to fancy himself as someone that can find that diamond in the rough. He’s looking for that guy that can move up to the next level and make him look like a hockey genius. Unfortunately this has backfired enough times now that it has systematically downgraded the team a bit at a time until we are arguably one of the least talented teams on the ice today – certainly one with little depth on the roster.

I’m a season ticket holder from Day 1 and I see the writing on the wall. I’ll be holding my application over the summer to see what happens.

If this guy don't clean the whole house out from Wilson, Cambell Feaster and Tortarella on down there will be very few difference in the way this team will do business.

As I said earlier this season this team needs an enema...a huge one. This is the worst team in the league right now, they have deteriorated to pure poo.

Commissioner Bettman needs to step up and get the sale done quick and stop dragging the fan's hearts through the mess he's partly responsible for.

Bill if you are going to making such big Statements,at least make them true.

The above one is Blatantly unture.

Looks like present ownership is going to blame on Oren for payrool and trades! The problem is present Management! The BOLTS that won the CUP were from Dudleys days and trades! ALL trades since have been duds, except for this trade time frame and now coaching is making these players look bad as to deals made! PLEASE LET THE COACH AND GM go away as we have a good start of a very good team going into Summer months to grow on! Go BOLTS and do not let Jay and Torts put you down!

You've got a point, olin, although Koules' silence is deafening. But I'm wondering....if he said he plans to spend $50 million on payroll, how many fans would trust him and reup? So far, his actions (and inactions) have proven him totally untrustworthy. And, although I'm the last one on this blog who would cut Koules ANY slack, he just couldn't comment on whether or not he will retain JF and JT. A better scenario would be for PSE to man up for a change and perform the necessary deeds ala the antagonist in the fantasy owner's flicks.

DC perceives himself in a difficult position. As part of the media entourage reliant on taking the team plane and team bus, he probably feels he must stay within certain unwritten parameters with his coverage. He already has his hands full dealing with an over-the-top volatile coach on a daily basis. This is unfortunate. I do not know what the SPT policy is in this regard but it can't be a good one whatever it is. An ethical media entity would not lend its name to a building whose owners it covers on a regular basis.

Asking PSE questions about the sale. personnel, payroll, etc. would be futile as well. Campbell and Wilson have repeatedly lied to the public (through the media) from the start of the season.

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