Will Vinny be ready for training camp?

Apparently, it is going to be a closer call than what the team acknowledged after his April 15 arthroscopic procedure on his right shoulder. Tampa Bay declared a 12- to 15-week "recovery period," but Lecavalier this week said his understanding is it will be five to six months before he is completely healed. He said it will be 12 to 15 weeks before he can work out without restrictions but five to six months before he can be cleared for contact.

As Lecavalier said, "That puts us into September."

And that could start bumping into training camp. Lecavalier, though, said he is in great hands with assistant trainer Jason Serbus, who is monitoring his rehab. Lecavalier said he can move his arm forward and sideways about 90 degrees, but reaching backwards is a problem. I thought the most telling things from today's story were that the pain has been so bad from the surgery that sleeping five hours straight was a blessing, and that he uses a golf club to help his rehab because his right arm still does not have enough strength. He holds the shaft of the club in his left hand and pushes the head of the club into his right to get some lift.

He also said he is not sure about having an arthroscopic procedure on his right wrist because the rehab on his right shoulder will be so extensive that, "I Just want to get this right." He said he played most of the season with the painful wrist, though it did not worsen, so he might just forgo that procedure all together, if he can.

That point brings up some other topics. Some of you have blogged as to your distaste that Lecavalier was even playing in the April 3 game against the Capitals in which he was hurt. It was a strange circumstance as Lecavalier was scheduled to have the wrist surgery on April 4. But as we know, Lecavalier was hurt against Washington on a questionable check by Matt Cooke.

But Lecavalier said he considered not playing only for "a fraction of a second. ... To tell you the truth. I play because the year is not over yet. That's why I play. I just care. You want to finish the season with your teammates, and that's the most important thing. ... There was talk. The surgery would have been the next morning. I said, 'Let me just play the last game against Washington. Let's do it like that.' ''

As for the hit by Cooke, who apparently was trying to hit puck-carrying Michel Ouellet but hit Lecavalier skating next to him, Lecavalier said he, kind of, doesn't believe it was intentional. Still, he said, "The way I looked at it on tape, (Ouellet) was right behind me with the puck, and (Cooke) is coming at 100 mph. He's not the cleanest player in the league. He's a dirty player. But I think it was just a combination of at the last second trying to go around me but hitting me at the same time, and me pulling up my arm to protect myself. That's what made it."

Whatever the circumstances, Lecavalier may have a tough time being ready for the start of training camp. But as GM Jay Feaster said in a statement, "We remain confident that Vinny will be ready to join us at the beginning of the 2008-09 season."

Comments

[Another Joe]

Still about 4 1/2 months until camp opens. My money is on Vinny to being ready.

[Casper]

I didn't really want to weigh in on this one, every-body is different (and I hope the best for Vince).

Some folks (a-hem) are shelved up to a year for the simplest of procedures, no matter their mettle.

I'm thinking that by the time this shoulder is back at 90-95%---December at the soonest---(soonest, start looking at the end of January and just leave him alone to heal properly) soonest----- his wrist will have rested to either not need surgery, or healed off kilter and become a permanent irritant.

The bigger concern is the money aspect: putting butts in seats and rushing Vincent back before the shoulder is ready---despite any and all rhetoric.

The fact that he wanted to play that last game, and Boyle coming back too soon, are the reasons why athletes don't just go out there and perform. They need level headed coaching. I could repeat that under #36 font and still it won't hit under skulls. They need level headed coaching---bang---cross body check.
Now do we get it?

My money says, no.

[Nan]

From what I have read and heard about shoulder dislocations, depending on whether there is surgery or not, it does usually take around 6 months before a person can participate in contact sports. So the story in today's paper did not surprise me any and I think that the Lightning trainers who say he should be ready for camp are being honest and believe that he will be. The Lightning, if need be, can at least hold him out of the preseason games and have no contact during training camp to give him extra time. Vinny is tough, he will be ready by the beginning of the season for sure!

[Another Joe]

Vinny is young and in good shape which always speeds up the healing process. Maybe he isnt 100% come camp but im sure he will be good enough to work out and get ready for the season.

Now lets get this sale complete and move this team forward!

[Herb]

How about that GP, the Flyers knocked out the Hab-nots and now the Bolts get a second round pick in 2009 to go with Picard for the Prospal trade. Well done Flyers!

[Not Oren!!]

I tried to have a little fun as Oren, Nero, and well........ it didn't work out too good. So I am now known as "Not Oren." Apparently the SPT was concerned that someone would read this and actually believe Oren was posting. I guess it's a valid concern considering the average IQ of humanity today. Some people wouldn't know a spoof if it hit em in the face. So I am now "Not Oren." But if I was.....................here's what will happen..........

First of all, I have no interest in what happened before I got here. Wait....excuse me. Before someone else got here, not me. It's time to turn the page. I have no interest in discussing anything that has been belabored here more than a thousand times. Gets a little boring doesn't it? Time to turn the page. Here's what we do........

The forwards first.

The lack of secondary scoring has been glaring for 2 or 3 years. That's clear. I've heard talk about making sure we sign a couple of "top 6" players. Do we want to go that route again? Do we want to toss big bucks at another player or 2 and continue to be limited in filling out the roster? Not Oren says....Fuggetaboutit! Time for a new approach and this is the perfect year for it. If I was Oren, and I'm not, here is what I'd do.

Forget "top 6." Just forget it. Let's change the perception. Think top line and then "next 6." Forget about the perception you need 2 scoring lines, one checking line, and an energy and muscle line. Actually you need the latter depending on what you have for the first 9. For now, think Vinny, Marty, and another, followed by 6 quality players. I'd much prefer to see 6 guys going for playing time behind the top line. Perfect time to take that angle here now. Is Stamkos going to step in and be a bona fide 2nd line center? Maybe. Are you willing to take that chance? He's going to be all of 18 when he shows up here. We have seen some young guys perform well over the last few years but he's still 18. Is Halpern a 2nd line center? He's played there at times in his career and has performed well but he's not a big time scorer. So..........do we sign a 2nd line center and have one of these guys play on the 4th line? Hardly. Let's load up on 2nd tier guys and have the depth we haven't had in a few years.

No superstars, but quality NHL players. Not AHL guys. That's what "Not Oren" is talkin about!!

I prefer to let those who know more than me decide who should be signed. However, I'll toss out a few names for fun.

I'm not a fan of bringing back the entire 04 team. Not by any means, but think about this. We need a guy to play LW with Vinny and Marty. Why not an affordable guy (albeit a few years older) who skated with Vinny most of the 04 season and had an outstanding year. Stillman. He's lost half a step but the man can still flat out play and could be a very affordable addition to round out that top line. Someone mentioned picking up a guy who could play the point on the PP so Boyle could get a little rest. Here comes my main guy. Jason Williams. If I was Oren, but I'm not, I'd go after this guy with some gusto. He's a right handed shot, did well while buried on a heavy Detroit roster, and this season while healthy racked up close to a point a game with Chicago. He also spent a bunch of time as the PP quarterback on that team. He fills a need as a "next 6 " guy and brings even more to the table. A 2nd shift PP quarterback and a PK guy. What's not to like about this guy. Somewhat affordable (I would think) and someone who brings a big bag of tricks here. I'm "Not Oren" but if this team doesn't take a shot at this guy I'd be surprised.

OK, so we need another LW. Now is where I lose those of you who are still following. If offseason hip surgery heals well, why not resign Gratton? Before anyone chokes please think about this. Gratton has spent most of his career as a "top 6" guy. Recently he has evolved to his rightful place which is a 3rd line center and a guy who can step into a top 6 position if need be. He clearly stands up for his teammates, can score a little, and is a veteran presence. Why not move him to LW where he is no stranger and have him skate alongside Stamkos? Toss Williams on the right side, Little Stevie at Center, and Grats on the LW. Let Stamkos and Williams see if they can find some magic and let Grats watch Little Stevie"s back? Make no mistake, they will run at the 18 year old but not nearly as much if Grats is lurking. Stamkos will appreciate it. More than he knows. Then you fill out with a line that was partially our second late this year. Halpern, Ouellet, and Jokinen. Not a Cup lineup but one that can easily get us into post season play.

Spread the talent, see if Jokinen and Ouellet are keepers and figure what else is needed. Should Jokinen hit stride, should Ouellet show he belongs here, should Little Stevie kick some, we could have something. Let's not plan on a Cup win next year. One step at a time. Let's get back to the show and we will see what else we need. With that lineup we might be short a LW. If we can find another and Grats comes cheap enough, he's our 4th line center with Tarns and Arty? Roy? Whomever.

Let' land a guy to play with Vinny and Marty, land a few 2nd tier guys and roll 3 lines. Spread the wealth. Let the "next 6" fight for their ice time. Go with who is hot but make sure there are NHL'ers on those lines.

By the way, what do we do with Craig? If Grats can't be signed, I'd rather see Craig as a 4th line center over Macdonald. Then again can he stay healthy?

Now that I've mentioned a few names..........forget em. Pick your own. I just hope you get the jist of where "Not Oren" is coming from.

Defense next..............

[Casper]

ROTFLMAO 'Not Oren'. Good one (wink, wink). Hope all is well with you.

I'd go after Jason Williams with gusto as well. Grats for grinder and protector of the Lil Phenom swings with me.

I have a funny feeling Jokinen is not a keeper though. Nothing substantial, just a feeling and wouldn't mind dangling he, Craig, and Ouelet (Pittsburgh's version of prodigal Prospal) out there to bring in whatever 'chemical element' fits in our locker room and gives an honest 20 'go hard' shifts per game.

Sounds like a Stillman type, or younger version thereof.

[GP]

Herb,

Thanks for the congrats. I would have been happy just making the playoffs after finishing last overall last season. The upgrade of the pick is huge for the Bolts. The 2009 draft should give them enough time to actually get some new scouts that actually know the difference between a 2nd round draft choice and a mistake.

[Not Oren!!]

That Damn Casper is on to me!!

Can't pull the wool over your eyes!

Got some things to say about your guy Boynton soon. Your comments about him didn't go completely past the radar. Not mine anyway. He's very high on the radar. Love that guy! I'll tell ya how we get him in an upcomming episode.

Can't help but chuckle here. No disguise is good enough for the intelligent.

I'm all for turning the pages on the last few bad chapters. Time to forge ahead. And yes, I am not sold on Ouellet, Jokinen and a few others. I think you know I don't like Ouellet at all. However, he did seem like he just might be getting it late in the year. Sometimes it takes a while for them to get their heads screwed on straight. Maybe he's one, then again, he could be another teaser.

With him or without, lets work on the "next 6." It's the way to go now.

[Herb]

No problem GP. I had to chime in on the playoffs when the Flyers (who had no chance in the opinion of a certain pain in the rump blogger) came up with what should have been a sweep of the Hab-nots. I am very glad for Prospal (who was my Army son's favorite Bolt). He called from Alaska tonight and I forgot to tell him about the Flyers win. He will be deployed to Afghanistan at the beginning of next year but will be home for Christmas before that will happen. Go Army.......hooah!

[ajax]

Sacrebleu!! That might have been the worst goalie series in a long long time. I would be close to saying that Price single handedly cost them the series. I am sorry, but I have seen him play quite a few times now and he shows me so little. He seems to almost have no sense of urgency. I know you want to be cool and all, but move a little, snap to it a bit. I would be really surprized if Philly gives Pitts any sort of a series (unless the Rangers take every bit of energy out of the Pens) Philly will have to work alot harder for goals then this series.
Leo, adieu and tant pis
Le mot juste GBY

[GP]

Ajax,

As for the Flyers working harder next series for goals. That's the way it should be as you go further in the playoffs.

Just remember. They said the Flyers could not cover Ovechkin et all. Then they said we couldn't cover the Habs. We won both. The Pens season series has been very even against the Flyers this season. Very physical and the Pens in no way ran away from them. They even half a%%ed the last game of the season so they did not match up against the Flyers. The Pens want nothing to do with Philly. It should be a good series. I'm hoping for Rangers comeback to at least make it 7 games.

[boltflasher]

Philly has shown 2 things: 1) no telling what can happen if you just get in the playoffs and 2) you can turn it around in one season if you have the "want to"...question is does the Lightning brass have the "want to"....means spending to near the cap and making some meaningful roster additions...

[Hockey Chic]

Ajax well said. I am so glad that the flyers won. Did I just say that? Leo, I love you man but I want to see Vinny P go all the way.

Hey Not Oren, I agree with your choice with the exception of Mac. I loved what Craig did when he was out there but Mac shows a great deal of grit. I am not sure how many people could lose eight teeth and how many stitches in the mouth and skate off the ice.

I like the Stillman idea and I agree we do not want all the 04 team to come back. But Stillman is always bringing it.

I like the idea of Grats coming back if healthy and I would love to see a move to get Vinny P back here is at all possible. I realize Vinny P and Torts had a falling out but if that were a reason to lose a member of the team we would not have a roster. lol

I think Stamkos can cut it and if not what the hell throw him and see if he can swim or saw him out of the picture totally.

Let the fellas fight for ice time and watch the production and goals rise.

Go Bolts!!

[Tackleberry]

I hope that V4 is not rushed back onto the ice like Boiler was. Dont make the same mistake twice.

Not Oren,
What do you think the plan will be for the new owner concerning the GM and scouting positions? I think it is obvious to ALL that huge improvements need to be made in those areas.

[boltflasher]

Torts using his "system" with Team USA: Utilizing a fore-checking, attacking style they hope to continue through the 17-day tournament, the Americans managed a 49-24 shooting advantage over Latvia in their 4-0 win Friday in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

"That's the way we're trying to play with the rink size and the players we have," U.S. head coach John Tortorella said by phone after the game. "We're trying to be a puck-pursuit type of team. When you don't have it, go get it. We're a hard fore-checking team. We're not going to trap to put pressure on the other team."

[léo]

Yessir, GP.
Congratulations. Superior or not, the Flyers wiped us out fair and square.
I can only thank gosh that I didn't see the game but yeah, Ajax, that's what I also heard, that the Kid wasn't up to the challenge.
I thought we'd crush the Flyers. I was completely wrong. The better team won. They knew how to battle, they knew how to clamp down, and more importantly, they knew how to Finish, all of it, better than Us.
While I don't wish your team any luck, cuz I hate'em, I DO wish YOU good luck for the remainder of the series, GP, of which I care for nothing anymore.
You've always exposed your point of view with class and elegance, even when I was at the peak of my smarm, and for that, I commend and applaud you, sir.
You were right.
Biron stopped us and Umberger stepped up like I can hardly believe. No matter the season stats, the Flyers were and are a better team than the Habs in the series. Can't deny either the truth, or a 5-game smackdown. Snif-snif.
A sad day for the greatest team in hockey and the best team in the world, whose future looks brighter than it ever has. Boo-hoo-hoo.
Oh well,
Next year, we'll be back! Mwah-ha-ha!
But I'll face the music as I said I would, and not hide behind anonymity, like the child, or behind intolerance, like Herb.
Chuck those tomaters!
But watch the face!
sff

[ajax]

Leo wake up dude, one more month of the best hockey on the planet. I am just getting into overdrive watching and in my mind tweaking all the time. I often wonder does Torts turn on the TV and say, yeah I want to use this or that. Or is he above learning? Anywho I do wonder?? I think Washington proved you can teach a old dog, new and better tricks. Let's hope for some fresh air come September. I don't see nothing, short of injuries, stopping Detroit. So far they have toyed with the other teams. I almost think they get bored for stretches of the game. Can't wait for the next two rounds of awwwwwwwsome hockey.

[Tackleberry]

You said it Ajax. Great matches coming up. Phili vrs Pitts. Wow! And Detroit vrs Dallas (if they win tonight). With all the teams reamining, I would put my money on Detroit. I will be routing for Phili just because I want to see Prospal get into the finals.

Looks like Torts is doing well with Team USA. Assuming that he is not back next season, who are the top avaialbe coaches to replace Torts (besides Barry Melrose)? I cant believe that he is even being considered.

Whatever line they put Stamkos on, I hope they do not put too much pressure on him. He has a lot of growing to do. Heck, he cant even rent a car or buy a beer.

[léo]

Agree about Detroit.
Euro captain and all.
But Ajax,
If you don't get the girl of your dreams, do you care who DOES?
Last year, I was rooting for Ottawa out've patriotism, but I didn't really watch any of the games and once it was over, it was no skin off my nose, either way.
I rooted for Edmonton cuz I grew up there and I desperately wanted Carolina to be denied after what they did to Saku, those bastiches, but once it was over...feh.
I wanted Calgary to win but I watched none of the games and once it was over, double feh, thrilling series as it might've been. Highlights are good enough for me at that point.
Might take a look at Pitt vs Det...
Stanley belongs in MTL. Once it signs off, who cares? Good luck to everybody; I can't MANUFACTURE an interest for another team. Now I move on.
To the Euro-Cup 2008.
And Team France. Ribéry, Henri, Gallas, Sagnol, Viera, Trézeguet and stargazer coach Domenech. (He aligns the formation according to his horoscope; I kid you not! Hey, got us to the Finals in 2006.) Let's get it on!
Italy sucks! May Poland take their spot in the pool. Azzuri goofballs.
Hope Materazzi gets the flu, though...
Peace.

[ajax]

pithy it will be. I just love hockey and will watch every triple ot game I can. That is why they give you sick days.

[satch]

Stanley belongs in MTL.

Posted by: léo | May 04, 2008 at 06:49 PM

Lord Stanley's Cup belongs to the team that has earned it for that year. They deserve it. That's why the games are played.

MTL didn't earn it. Doesn't deserve it. Get over it!!

Hey ajax. funny new name but hey who cares?

leo keep your head up wherever it is and try to convince me and the rest the cup belongs someplace other than with a team who didn't earn it. good luck jack. you are full of it but not slick enough to convince anyone with brain mass over that of a worm that the cup belongs anywhere than with whomever earns it.

The team that earns the right to hoist the cup is the team, and city, where it rightly belongs. nowhere else.

[bear]

Philly matches up better against PItt than they did against the Habs.
Biron's the better goalie.

Sell them short at your own peril folks.

Leo, still don't get why Habs couldn't put a player in the Blue. That's what cost them the series, not Price.

[ajax]

Satch, where the heck have you been?? You are back from the abyss. It has been what, three months? Most of the personel insult players have left, which is one reason I know you got fed up. Actually we fight pretty clean now a days. Probably because we are all bored with no Bolts to beat on. I have even found it in my heart to forgive Mr. and Mrs. Richards (Patrick and Lisa) just kidding lovie!!! Glad to have a keen hockey mind back on the blog. Leo actually does know some hockey if he can get past his alterego (eddie haskell) anywho, the more the merrier. GBY

[léo]

Hey child, how is yeh? Your references (again) to other bloggers "brain mass" or "cranial capacity" or "credible intelligence" being beholden to them reading my posts or not, give you away. Little boy. Do your thing and let others do theirs, whaddaya say?
I'll say it again: If you applied yourself as much to analysing as you do to insulting, you would be a formidable opponent. As it is, I have no time for you.
Bear,
Totally agree that forsaking to crash the blue was ONE of the main problems.
But last night, they DID crash it, so I'm told, maybe GP can confirm. We got 4 goals.
Other main problems included lack of confidence, lack of "sacrifice" and an anemic PP that was stupendous in the season but unimaginative in the playoffs.
But my Boy letting in 3 goals in 3 minutes...I don't know Bear; I think that counts for alot. He let in FIVE goals.
I can admit it: Biron was Superior to the Priceberg all the way.
And I also agree, especially after what I've seen, that the Flyers will represent more of a challenge to the Pens than We would've.
I dare not sell them short now, Bear, but the Pens, yikes!
sff

[bear]

Not to stir the pot, the Habs have quite a few playing pieces if they want to make a Bolt move this summer.

[ajax]

Where is everyone? 2:26am and the Stars just clinched in 4ot's. And who said their was nothing left to watch. My first thoughts were, that this game assured Detroit of making it to the finals. How could either team have anything left? The most awesome game I have watched since game 7 many moons ago in our house. That guy Morrow for Dallas is a stuuuuuud!! Man, when he is on the ice good things happen. What a player. I think I will use another sick day tomorrow and get ready for Dallas-Detroit. Hockey: the greatest show on earth.

[ajax]

I had to look at one stat from last nights game and try to digest. In the last 4 games of the year, our TB Bolts were credited with a total of 63 hits. Dallas was credited with "88" hits last night. The captain, Morrow, was credited with 19 hits (NHL record, maybe?) Now no one laugh when I tell you this (or cry) Mike Lundin was credit with 18 hits the entire year!!
oops, (Brad Richards had 13 hits for the entire year) He did step it up in the playoffs though, with 6 hits in 6 games, Morrow had 66.

[boltflasher]

Ajax, I tried to make thru all the overtimes but couldn't and went to bed after the third one...truly, nothing is better than playoff hockey, except if the local team is in...

[boltflasher]

Montreal has NO players I would trade Vinny for and is not the team I would trade with if forced to...

[léo]

Totally agree with bofe of boltflasher's posts. (sorry,dyslexic) Didn't say there was nothing left to watch, Ajax, said there was no interest in it for ME, a Canuck watching 4 Yankee teams battlin' it out, feh. I'm watching Team Canada at the Worlds, in that case. That's great hockey, too.
If I was TB GM, I wouldn't trade either, if I base myself on what I've seen in the last 3 weeks.
Who gets honorable mention that you could trade for? Saku?, Kovy? No way. Old, nebulous, possibly broken. Never.
Kostopoulos? A mucker? Never.
Who Stepped up? Who got noticed? Really, one guy. Ever since We traded Rivet for him and a 1st rounder (McDonaugh), he has consistently gotten better and better and was the ONLY one who elevated even more during these playoffs. One of the kids,
Josh Gorges. Best of the lot.
The Brothers K get a pass, especially Sergei.
Kids/V4? Never.
My Boy might've failed in his 1st year (at 20 yrs old), like Fleury last year, but I persist to say that he's the Future of goaltending and the PRIME trade-bait for V4...IN THAT CONTEXT, of course, of us discussing it and not wanting it.
Because either than that, what could I, as TB GM, get to compensate for V4? Nothing.
Boltflasher's right.
sff

[Ted]

New owner moves:

Fire GM & Coach

Hire Mike Milbury GM & Rick Dudley Coach

Trade Vinny & Ramo for Price-Komesark-Kovlev and 1st round this year and 3rd next year

[léo]

Whatever you want except the Priceberg and the Brothers K, that's Our reality.
With that in mind; it'll never happen.
TB should look elsewhere to get better value from V4.
HALAK, Komo and Kovy + 1st rounder? Sure.
We're even prepared to throw in Plecanec to compensate center loss. Sound good?
Whatever you want, except what mentioned above + Gorges, McDonaugh, Pacioretty, Emelin and Chipchura, imho. That's our REAL future. Superstars waiting to explode. (Yeah, I know Chpchura is a mucker, but he has Charisma in spades, future captain, it is whispered.)
Our other interesting assets won't satisfy TB management or fans enough to overcome superstar V4's loss.
TB should look elsewhere because either way, next year,
MTL is going to offer him 100mil for 10yrs.
sff

[ajax]

Ted is back and added Jay to his pithy and concise assessment. Very interesting thought. When I see these other "good" teams I can't buy for one second that we are "not very far away with our present roster". I find it hard to believe even the most rosy of Bolt fans could buy into that crapola. We need minimum 4, but more like 6 solid NHL players to get back on track. The only way that happens (unless you buy into the three year plan stuff, NOT ME) is to get a GM that is willing to wheel and deal our best assests for multiple assests (see Richards trade then multiply return by 2) Look at Washington, Phoenix, Edmonton and look how they got competitive (quickly). Need a true hockey man calling the shots though. One more time Ted: Fire coach, Fire GM.
The worse suggestion I heard all weekend was from one of my buddies who said, save the money, take our lumps this year, and get another #1 draft pick next year, then spend. Scarry to think that just might happen. Ugh!!!!

[BolfFlasher]

Chicago, with Kane, Toews, Keith has young, very good players whom I would trade V4 for (would want all 3, though) and these guys are better and younger than most of the guys that Mtl would offer...doubt Chicago would do it though they could have a super line of Havlat, Vinny, and Sharp...

[ajax]

I see the year as this. We keep Marty and Vinny together and they are top 20 scorers and we get alot of oohs and aahs and we finish 32-41-4-4 and my last five set of tickets are worthless games (again).
Status quo is not the answer, for me.
I find it a stretch to believe ownership will throw bags of money around.
I can't imagine anyone in our minor league pipeline providing help.
What else is feasible? I scratch my head too often on this and I always come up with the trade "one" for "many" theory. If you liked the Richards exchange for players and cash, you would really LOVE the Vinny scenario if handled right. But that is another big "if" with Jaybird.
Next few months will determine the next few years is my motto.

[Stacey]

I truly wish everyone would just pipe down about trading Vinny. It's just not cool.

[léo]

Well, what would be cool, Stacey?
Never bringing it up?
Signing him for a colossal amount of money, thereby handcuffing TB FOR GOOD for the next however many years with no defensive corps, issues in net (tho maybe not anymore with Smith), no forward depth and no future help from the minors?
Or not signing him, having the same season next year as the one you had this year and then watching V4 leave for NOTHING?
What would be cool?
What's the scenario then? D'love ta hear it.
Cuz otherwise, I think it's an extremely interesting blog question considering that he is without a doubt, one of the top-5 players in the the world and that even the Possibility of losing him for nothing would be a tragedy for TB.
Nothing wrong in hoping for the best.
As long as you're prepared for the worst.
P.

[ted]

Also v4 will never be the same, we need to get a good package for him lots of youth that is the new NHL, you can not tie up lots of money for one player when the owner can not dish out the money and oren can not even get financing do you think he has a bunch of $ laying around, it is called reality...

Fire coach and trade v4

[Hockey Chic]

Ajax for Coach and GM we could get two for one right Ajax? What if they throw in season tickets. Hell you have been right on all season. Maybe Feaster needs a hotline to you.

On another note Leo one of my friends who is a Huet lover was ticked off today after they lost in the playoffs and he took all his Canadiens stuff down in protest. I think he is just mad and will hopefully continue to root on your guys.

It would take a hell of a lot more than that to get me to take down my bolts stuff at work. Not a chance as it is the only thing that gets me through the days. My motto is sticks and pucks and season tickets that is why I work.

Go Bolts!!!

[Casper]

Chic, I adore that motto!

[wahls]

I had a much longer response, but I didn't think anyone would want to read the novel I wrote so here is the condensed version:

If we trade Vinny, who do you think will come and watch the games? Vinny puts butts in the seats (not to mention 40+ goals in the net). Also who will we have as our first line center? Or are we just going to throw Stammer into the fire the way we did Vinny and hope he doesn't burn? If we do that then who will be our second line center? If we get some young talent that is the next best thing how are we going to be able to afford them in the future? Its not always about quantity...

On the topic of the blog, I wish Vinny the best. I hope he doesn't rush back into the game too soon like Boyle did, but I have no doubt that he will be back to 100% in the not too distant future. He isn't your average joe who busted his shoulder and had to have his insurance pick his doctor; he is an in shape 20-something millionaire who has the best doctors and trainers money can buy, not to mention a team that has a vested interest in his complete recovery. It does sound like he needs some help getting around though, I bet if he auctioned off a couple of days for someone to just help him around the house he would have that $3 mil raised for the hospital by the end of summer. I'm sure there are some ladies that would be willing to cut his food, drive him around, and help him get dressed for charity.

[boltflasher]

For the Bolts to get back to playoffs, the entire defense needs revamping, O'Brien needs to start performing, and 4 to 6 free agents need to be signed in addition to Stamkos coming in, ....that's alot to ask, and goaltending is still a question mark...team needs a Philly-like housecleaning...

[léo]

"Who will go to see the games", Wahls? The age-old response to this question.
Far as I know, the 29 other teams DON'T have V4 and lotsa people go to see THEIR games. What gives?
But you know what will REALLY empty out the Forum? Stagnation and ruin.
That's what might happen if V4 leaves for nuthin'.
Unless I'm missing something...
Hockey Chic,
Was he a Huey fan or a Hab fan? Why would he tear his stuff down if Huey was on other team? Did he not have Capital stuff to tear down? Was he against Gainey's move? Tell him he's a bandwagoner and not a real fan, then we'll see what's what.
I DELICATELY removed the Flanelle from my window; I certainly didn't TEAR it down.
Sheesh...
P.

[GP]

Leo,

Thanks for the kind words regarding the Flyers. I didn't think you had it in you ... ;). I know you said that you will not be watching but please be sure to root against the Flyers because they seem to win when you do that. Great series and I must say, the Habs will be around for a while. We'll meet again.

I personally say do not trade V4. Trade Boyle, O'Brien, Kuba. V4 would bring a boatload in return but Boyle will bring 3 NHL players and a pick as well. You can not win with one line in the NHL. Just look at the Pens Flyers Stars and Wings. They can roll their lines and any of them can score. It's time to be patient and rebuild here in Tampa. If OK can spend to the cap, then we may be able to make a Flyers like turnaround next year. If not, rebuild.

[bear]

Ajax remains the voice of reason.

Keeping V4 is the crazymans option.

Nothing matters though unless the team pony's up the cap but they can't and won't.

[ajax]

The thing I always get out of the blogs is this, right or wrong, this team has HUGE AND NUMEROUS problems.
We went from the best team in hockey to the worst team in hockey in three short painful years. It isn't bad luck, it is every level of our management has stunk. Like any business that declines(fails) the management of our assets were done very very poorly and now we all get to discuss the why and how to fix. I have always maintained it would get worse before it got better. I love VL4, I hope everyone never forgets that. I would love to see him continue to woo right here, but plain and simple I think their is sooooo much to fix. The simple fact that they are expected to play 10-20% more than any other stars in the league can't be ignored for even one more game let alone another full season. See a coach that totally lost his grip with the scenario of I have to play them 27 minutes a night because I have no one else to play!!!!!
I believe with every ounce of me that a blockbuster trade could happen where we could be competitive in a hurry. A all-star number one center mixed with 6 players who don't belong at this level equals the past two years. Lots of points, lots of ESPN moments and a team that is lite years from the one that dominated the cup just 3 years ago. There are teams in this league that look in their minors and see 3,4,or 5 players that they have plans for. They have good players that are getting only 15 minutes a game. With the right guy on the phone (not Feaster) we can get 2 or 3 Jeff Helpern's plus a couple of high draft picks to boot. Imagine losing Richards and Vinny and getting 5-7 players in return??? PLUS extra money to spend. I look at Dallas and they have 4 forwards who get more minutes than Richards, who had to play here until he couldn't even move. And that isn't a bash on Brad it is a statement that says, Gang Dallas has 9 forwards that play 16 minutes a night. We use to have that. We are no where close to that mix today. But that should be the goal.
And the whole conversation above is worthless if we are stuck on 43-45 million in payroll. Sooooo, I've gone full circle. There is so much wrong.
Signing VL4 to 8+ million with Boyle at 6.7 and Marty at 5 million gets us right back to square one, thank-you Bear. Same exact dynamics of the last two years of diminishing returns. 45% of your payroll tied up in three guys. 6 guys making minimum wage that are bums and a long long season, AGAIN.
I am a die hard but I will not spend without commitment from someone (new owners??) that they have a plan and they actually put their money where their mouth is.
Can you imagine three months from now, we all wake up and they have made no improvements to the roster, the payroll is the same or less and Jay is at the microphone assuring everyone that this last place club with no real changes is going to be better and compete for the cup. I didn't buy it last year and predicted we wouldn't make the playoffs. I will not be a sucker again. Love the Bolts but will not be spending my 4k on a minor league team playing in the NHL.
Give me VL4 and 52 goals or a team that has a chance to advance in the playoffs?? I will take winning over hi-lite reels anyday.

[wahls]

Sure I understand that 29 other teams don't have Vinny, but almost all of them have that "untouchable" player (I know anyone can be had for the right price, but you can catch my drift). Trade away Brodeur and see what happens to ticket sales for the new Devils' stadium. How about the Flames minus Iginla, Caps minus AO, Pens minus Crosby (and Malkin). Fans from those teams won't be very happy.

The Lightning don't have the luxury of being in a huge hockey market like some of the other teams. We need all of the fire power, big name players we can get. I understand we aren't the worst off of the "unconventional" market teams, but take away Vinny and the ticket sales will plummet. I know that more years of cellar dwelling will do the same, but there are many other players (and even a #1 draft pick, though I think that should be almost as untouchable as Vin) that can be traded first. We just traded away Richards, and now people want to get rid of Vinny? I don't think fans will take too kindly to kicking 2 of the "Big 3" to the curb for some young kids who may or may not make a difference. Like GP said, I would rather trade Boyle, OB, Kuba, etc. before I would trade Vinny.

If Vinny refuses to sign, then trade him for everything you can get. Leo, I am assuming that is what you mean when you keep saying what will happen when Vinny leaves for nothing. Last I heard Vinny said he wanted to retire a Bolt, unless something has changed in the couple of weeks since he said that, I don't think he will be all that difficult to sign this off season. I don't think anyone disagrees with trading Vinny if he won't sign, but just trading him for the hell of it is a very bad idea.

[GP]

Ajax,

Agree with what you said. However, if the owners can spend to the cap, (I know it is a bog if) they can afford to have V4, Boyle, and MSL on the roster. Look at the Flyers who spend to the cap:

Briere - 10Mil
Timmonen - 8mil
Gagne - 5.25 mil
Hartnell - 5 mil

It can be done and fairly easily. Now it will take is OK Hockey to pony up the money or add an investor here along the way that will.

[boltflasher]

Because of the cap, no matter if Vinny stays here or goes somewhere else he will chew up a significant portion of someone's payroll space. So any team with him will be forced to put cheaper younger players around him...the problem in Tampa, there aren't any coming up from the minors and Jay didn't keep any of the veteran defense because of all the money he gave Brad.
This broke the team's back in more ways than one...so what do we do? Brad's gone so room has been freed up and with no prospects from the minors the team can not be competitive unless it goes after 3 to 4 free agents and team payroll is near the top as a result. The free agents will only be a stop gap measure as the real job needs to be building the minors and getting some bonafide prospects. Jay can thank himself for the mess that he created thanks to the money he absurdly gave Brad. If they don't up the payroll and add at least 2 forwards and 1 defenseman from UFAs, then forget anything but last again. Adding just 3 UFAs plus Stamkos will probably put them in the thick of things in the weak Southeast but still no where near what they were just a couple of years ago...Vinny may wait it out and continue to play here or he may get impatient, if he does then we have to try to get what we can. Before that however, I agree with trading Boyle may be a better solution...he is not a great defenseman, however, he can pass the puck out of the D-zone unlike most of the other Dmen the Bolts have and of course commands the point on the PP, but the Bolts still lost with him when he came back from injury...

[Hockey Chic]

Leo the guy always wore a habs jersey and of course it had Huet name on it. He wore it to all the bolts games. So I guess he was a huet fan but never stopped wearing the jersey.

Like I have said many times before, they would have to cut, rip or tear team my MSL jersey off of me or out of my hands before I would give up on my team.

Ajax I am with you about waking up and seeing nothing changing with the team and or the roster. I bet the players are worried as well. I know I would have hard time playing especially after last season if nothing changes. Lets play along with chic and go the half full route.

Go Bolts!!

[ajax]

GP, The Flyers are at like 10-15 million more than we ever were, see link below.
Without a doubt, if we have owners who will spend the cap we have no worries. Spending 15+ million in free agents this summer brings lots of joy. But we are all dreaming aren't we??
That said, I think we all know we have worries about the ability of the new owners to compete financially.
P.S. The Flyers will be doing alot of juggling this summer. Richards cap hit goes up 4 million alone and they are smack up against the cap.
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=PHI

[léo]

Hockey Chic,
Like I said, tell him he's not a real fan and that he would lynched in MTL for his despair; his reaction will then tell you everything you need to know.
GP,
Just doing my duty, mate, as I said I would. But arrgh!, rub it in, why dontcha?
Wahls,
I'm not denying that or refusing to believe it. In fact, I DO believe it. Blogger Lisa has brought up this subject numerous times. It's referral code is "ties to the COMMUNITY". I'm SURE that V4 loves it here, loves the community.
As it was PROVED to us that Sundin ADORES his community. Do you see THIS insidious point? (Hey, now that my Boys are out, I'm back to primary incendiary protocols.)
So TB resigns him, Wahls. For a little bit more than pocket-change, we can assume. Which is gonna chew so much off your cap that later possible Big Moves will be limited, agreed? Cuz you won't have the financial leeway for jeez, a few years, right?
Now, there's no problem with that if you have a solid supporting cast and a Bright future, but you don't. You NEED more than 1 line and you NEED more than Boyle to captain the blue-line. That's a just a Fact that you're gonna have to accept, like it or not.
V4 can get you all that. And like I said all year to Lisa AND Ajax (whom I converted,ha!):
Nothing fills up an Arena like Victory does. Noone KNEW who V4 was before 2004.
Victory presented him to you.
P.

[bear]

Something that may be overlooked.

Even if the Bolts had a miraculous cap infusian and could spend an extra 10-15 million, what free agent of real value is going to sign on with a brutal team with no farm system whatsoever?...and really why would LeCavalier, unless he turns into a Sundin that could care less about ever winning another cup.

That list of UFA's is short to non existent, a pipe dream.

[ajax]

Good teams, good franchises are usually built, not bought. Vinny ain't no dummy, is agent ain't no dummy, they will be asking the same questions we's all a asking. Some of you are asking us to believe that thru the prime of his career he will be willing to play 27 minutes every night for a 70-80 point team? Just can't buy it, and I is a dummy. Mr. Leo, me's been banging the one for four deal for a long long time, probably back to October or November,
when it was obvious that one of the big 3 had to go and VL4 would be the easiest and most profitable to move. (and everyone despised me then) I have to eat my hat for the Richards deal (never thought we could unload that salary) as I feel it was one of the greatest steals in history. My whacked out thoughts are bad enough without me following your scent, whew, what is that smell!!! Quickie on Price, the pressure was to great for the yute. Only thing that could explain a complete whiff on a shot. To tense to move. Love ya Leo!!
I see Wings in 5, Pens in 6 and then Wings in 5, maybe even a sweep. P.S. Detroit has got a great organization, top to bottom. They develope young talent second to none, and we are at the bottom of that skill.
GBY all.

[léo]

I know you said it, Ajax. I was just teasin'. Everyone despised YOU, you say, though? I don't know, everyone seems to like you just fine, more than me, tell ya that fer nuthin'.
As fer the Kid,
Yer right. The pressure, the mental breakdown after 2 years of non-stop hockey, no breaks, no time off, yeah, it got to him.
"whiff on a shot"?,
Do you mean he's "too tense to move" in his crease or on the market? Cuz both are funny.
Ah, We'll keep him anyway.
sff

[ajax]

I'll be pithy Leo. Price sure ain't no Homer!! GBY

[bear]

L'il Price will be fine. When Dryden and Roy became Goalie Gods in Montreal they both had much better teams in front of them.

Ajax, come on you are picking Detroit over Dallas in 5??? Man I'll take some of that.

I see Dallas in 6 and Pens in 7 (if they are lucky).Flyers could easily prevail especially if they win game one in Pitt.

Ritchie's heading back to the show.

[ajax]

I base my pick most on the fatigue factor for Dallas. Dallas has beat two very good teams and that does make me scratch my head a bit. Their defense just swarmed and shut down Anaheim and San Jose. They are a great great skating team. Detroit has had a cake walk with Nashville and Colorado, and this should really give them an edge over Dallas who played basically 7 grinding games in 8 nights (the last game was actually 2+ games) The number one line for Dallas has been killer and they should be at least neutralized a bit by the speed of Datsyuk and Zetterberg. More than any reason though, Dallas dominated with speed and that will be negated against a deep and talented Red Wings team. I am curious Bear why you think Dallas can beat Detroit. In four games this year, Dallas scored 5 goals against Detroit and they have had problems scoring this playoff run, winning very tight low scoring games. If Dallas doesn't score on their PPlay I see them having a tough time cracking Detroit's D.
The other series believe it or not I will be pulling for Philly. As talented as Malkin is, I have seen some real dirty play from that guy and he has turned me off.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AsjVfmmBPd3Rr3P4xOlywIF7vLYF?slug=rm-stars5reasons050608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Read the above artice on 5 reasons the Stars can win the cup. The Yahoo hockey guy wrote it, and I like his insite over the year. A pretty long article hitting the high points for this Dallas team. I can't help but read it and notice one big "local" name not even mentioned anywhere in the article. Maybe the writer is slipping??

[léo]

Dallas and Detroit deems itself dandiful, imo.
The Pennsylvania war promises to be bloody.
And Ajax,
Name Tom Barasso mean anything to you? Look'im up. Interesting career. Yet nowhere near as my Boy's is gonna be.
Pivy.
sff

[léo]

On another note and to my surprise,
Marc Streit!'s poor showing in the playoffs have maybe brought down his value a tad.
Apparently, he's not such a UFA priority to sign, especially at the number we're hearing.
Don't know what's gonna happen, but considering that We want him as a 3rd liner and he wants to be a defenseman...for the price we're hearing...maybe his return isn't set in stone.
Much more worrisome is Kostitisyn senior as RFA. Kevin Lowe sure threw a monkey in the wrench and because of it, the kid is the Priority.
TB should pitch for Streit is my point.
Won't cost too, too much and can pilot a PP as well ingenious passes, swell dekes, good 1st/forward passes out've the D, good (but no more) overall play in defensive zone AND a wicked, precise slapper.
Now, he disappeared in the playoffs, but that surprises me because he's so great on international scene. He adapted to the NHL, I know he'll adapt to NHL series.
That's why I don't mind keeping him, but if not, I think he would be a good fit in TB.
That is all.
P.

[Casper]

I dunno, I'm lousy at picking goalies. Remember? I said I thought J.C. Bergeron was going to be our guy for 15 years. Little did I know Ramage and Reekie would leave and eight+ years of non-existent defense would be endured, and they've been here again since Ramsey told Tortorella to "stick it".

IMHO, and I do mean humble, Dan Ellis looked more like the next thing than Carey Price. Thank the defense, but what do I know?

[ajax]

Carey Price, I just got a call from a friend in Vancouver who played with Price near Westminster Junior High? They said they use to call him "Swiss" until he grew like 5 inches between 9th and 10th grade. Could they have meant "cheese"?

[Bear]

Ajax, Dallas wins on depth, guts and goaltending.

Sorry Richards will play a big part too.

Wings have had a cakewalk so far and are in for a surprise.

[bear]

Oh and the Euro factor too..see Phily.

[Casper]

I agree to a modest extent on Euro factor, and goaltending. More so on depth and guts, and _____ defense. More blocked shots and bodies taking bruises at this end of the year. We sit and watch (or Sh*# and stink) because we consistently let Novembers slip by without any urgency whatsoever.

Pricemonsta may've been 'Swiss' the way Hal Gill is 'Tiny", but I'd still take Dan Ellis over him at this juncture. And remember, Ellis was one grade ahead of Mike Smith in Dallas' goalie kindergarten.

Defensively responsible without being trap boring is what I find most intriguing about the Stars' game. I also tend to notice that kid we almost got, #28 Fistric doing unsung D-Man stuff. A youngster, he'll get 'pantsed' here and there, but the system is golden.

Got to feel for Big Mike in that he was plucked away (but hasn't Turco been awesome though!) and sent to where defense is a fantasy and he has to steal games with no help. If you think that $6.7M Boyle is help, I thank you. It's always good to start the day with a laugh, sardonic as it may be (cough).

Do I have to start worrying about surgeon's competence and capability? All the best to Jeff Halpern mending that knee. See you in January, '09.

Is there a way Feaster can go on IR while somebody else fixes this mess?

Go Bolts!
Go Orthopaedics!

[bear]

Ellis over Price in a flash Casper

Right about Dallas's D its team D

They have 4 lines they can roll till 3 in the morning and Turco is in a class by himself right now.

Wings are not likely ready for these guys.

[léo]

They use to call him "swiss" when he was 14 yrs old? ooooooooh...
Hey, that's nuthin, I heard that when he was in kindergarten, he totally sucked. The teacher would take slapshots at him from 3 feet out and he could barely stop any.
Pascal Leclaire, Dan Ellis and Mike Smith are certainly in the crop of future stars coming; said so all along,
But none've'em have accomplished what the Priceberg has, regardless of what we've seen in the last 2 weeks.
You're all entitled to your opinion and y'alls arguments are valid ones at that. Goalies exude a certain...aura, that TELLS YOU if they're reliable or not. (Example: your "cringe factor" when opposition winds up for a shot. Do you "feel" confident that your goalie will stop it? In TB, more often than not, the answer was "no".) I respect that feeling cuz players respect it too.
Ain't gonna argue over who any'a'yehs would choose over my Boy, cuz it don't bother me.
I KNOW he's gonna be the best of the lot by a mile, and that for 10yrs. HE'S the new Brodeur. Our players feel it too. EVERYONE in the league is STILL talking about him. They see it too.
And that's it.
sff

[bear]

The new Brodeur or the new Steve Penny?
Good luck with that one Leo.

You are about the only guy I know that pumps flopper Smith too..saw nothing from him. Cousins?