It's a salary cap world

A little more than a month before training camp, the Lightning has a salary cap number of $55.66-million, very close to the limit of $56.7-million. This, of course, is not where the team will end up. Tampa Bay has, hypothetically, spoken in the past of a payroll anywhere between $45-million and $48-million. But asked Tuesday about a target, owner Oren Koules said, "We're not really looking at a number."

There are many ways payroll can be lowered. For instance, no one expects Steve Stamkos to earn all of the performance bonuses that could raise his salary from $875,000 to $3.725-million. Still, for season-opening accounting purposes, those bonuses, along with bonuses for Gary Roberts, Ollie Kolzig and Mark Recchi, have to be included in the cap number. If Jeff Halpern misses 30 games because of his knee injury (and he is not expected back until perhaps Christmas), Tampa Bay starts getting salary relief.

For now, though, what the team is looking at is trades. Though things have been quiet the past few weeks, vice president of hockey operations Brian Lawton said that has not diminished the team's desire to deal. Neither Lawton nor Koules would talk about specific names, but it seems certain Jussi Jokinen, Michel Ouellet and Jason Ward are being dangled. Speculation Ryan Craig also could be moved now seems unfounded. As Koules said, "Ryan Craig can do anything. Ryan Craig can play all 12 forward positions. He can cover guys. He's good at draws. That's a heck of an asset. We signed him for two years because we wanted to get him rolling again."

Given the team's cap number, it is much more likely to swap players for minor-league depth or draft choices. That means the rumors about Bryan McCabe, Darryl Sydor and Pavel Kubina can stop.

I know it's been mentioned a great deal around the Internet before, but it is worth repeating here: Nashville seems a likely trading partner. Think about it. The Predators have 13 draft picks next year and a ton of defensive depth that includes prospects such as Cody Franson, Alex Sulzer and Jonathon Blum.

Two things are at play: The Lightning believes it is set at forward, and, as Koules said, "We feel better about our kids (on defense) than anybody else."

The top five blue-liners are Matt Carle, Paul Ranger, Alex Picard, Shane O'Brien and Filip Kuba. The feeling is Mike Lundin, Janne Niskala and Andrew Hutchinson will battle for the final spot, though Matt Smaby and Ty Wishart will get long looks. Muddling the picture slightly is Lundin has to clear waivers if he was to go to the minors and likely would be lost. So if he loses the battle, he could be moved. Niskala has a clause in his contract that could send him to Europe if he did not make the team. Hutchinson has a one-way deal, so he also could be traded if he bombs.

However it plays out, there are still plenty of moving parts that must bet settled through training camp and preseason.

Follow the money.

Players with one-way contracts, except Lundin. (Salaries in millions):

Player                Salary           Cap hit

Vinny Lecavalier  7.167           6.857

Marty St. Louis   5.0               5.25

Ryan Malone       6.0                4.5

Steve Stamkos     .875            3.725*

Vinny Prospal      3.5               3.5

Matt Carle          2.95             3.438

Filip Kuba           3.0              3.0

Radim Vrbata     3.0              3.0

Ollie Kolzig         1.5              2.5*

Gary Roberts      1.25            2.07*

Jeff Halpern       2.0              2.0

Jussi Jokinen     1.875           1.812

Mark Recchi       1.25             1.5*

Michel Ouellet     1.3              1.25

Chris Gratton      1.25            1.25

Shane O’Brien     1.125           1.0

Marc Denis          1.0              1.0**

Mike Smith           .950            .950

Evgeny Artyukhin  .900            .950

Paul Ranger          .950            .933

Alex Picard           .750            .800

Ryan Craig           .775            .787

Mike Lundin         .738            .688

Jason Ward          .700            .675

Adam Hall            .600            .600

Janne Niskala       .600            .600

Nick Tarnasky       .525            .525

Andrew Hutchinson .500           .500

Totals:                52.030        55.66

*Includes performance bonuses; ** Buyout. 

       

Comments

[Don in St. Pete]

It's comforting knowing the previous owners ( several generations ago ) had the presence of mind to build the St. Pete Times Forum up above anything except cat 5 storm surge levels. I'm betting the owners and the new management team are probably outta here, not wanting to sit through even a minor blow.

[Pd]

Fearless in so much that he does what has to be done to advance the puck without worry and isn't afraid to head to the blue...according to Leaf pro scouts anyway.

He wasn't going to get much ice in Montreal even if he was a choir boy.
Hopefully he takes full advantage.
Good to know about the speed, thats 1,2 and 3 in today's league. Maybe he plays with Blake or Hagman.

I'm with you on Sundin Flasher. Brutal how long he takes to make a decision. A lot of trades will hit in a flurry though once he signs, so that will be interesting.

[Boltflasher]

I have heard enough of Sundin and his summer long melodrama (the NHL version of the Favre drama), enuff already...

[léo]

Grabovski:
He can fly. Fly like you can't believe. DEFIITELY one of, if not the fastest on Our team.
Good vision. Good shot. Nice moves. Excellent passes. Great hands.
Can't keep the puck.
Fearless? What does that mean? He doesn't shy away? He CAN'T shy away; he's a rookie! He WANTS a job! Of COURSE he goes, goes, goes to the man.
Can't keep the puck.
In a corner or in open ice covering the puck.
He can't keep it. He is SYSTEMATICALLY pushed off of it.
He CANNOT keep the puck.
K the Younger then got HIS chance.
He not only kept the puck, he shoved it down opponents throats and started punching if they didn't like it.
THAT'S fearless.
When Grabby was told to bulk up to keep the puck, he pouted. When he was taken out of the Phoenix game, he abandoned ship, flew outta town, went to his agent, cry-cry, Mtl hates me. He coulda been salvaged, but he blew it, like Ribeiro blew it.
They'll be ok, even good maybe. But they're NOT Mtl Canadiens.
Buh bye Grabby.
He looks really good. And he'll surely BE pretty good in Toranna. As for services rendered to Us?
We got to "talk" to Mats Sundin for a week!
Fair deal, ask me.
That's Grabovski.
P.

[PD]

No doubt Don but the Leafs problem last year was actually more Maurice than anything. He was the only coach in the entire league who insisted on using a man on man defence vs some form of zone.
Great potential there for a Ron Wilson upgrade especially with Toskala.
They finished top 10 in goals and have lots left with or without Sundin.
Steen and Stajan really came on last year and Grabovski just may be a perfect # 3. Who Knows?
No one at this point.

[Don in St. Pete]

PD, Sundin can still play some pretty good man up defense, especially in his own zone. Unnamed poster at 12:34 AM, those are opinion pieces, not necessarily fact based. In recent history look at Ponikarovsky's goal scoring numbers and imagine him with out Sundin creating a lot of open ice and quality scoring chances for him. If Sundin doesn't return, watch some of his ex linemates struggle until they can regain some chemistry.

[PD]

Yeah Leo, Tlusty actually is a pretty good pick, Kulemin should surprise too.He was MVP and scoring leader last year in Russian Super League. Formerly Malkins winnger.

I'm looking forward to Grabovski too, I understand that he can fly and is fearless.

[PD]

Leo, thanks for the complement, (I think).

Ajax, Sundin and the Leafs have played over .700 vs Bolts lifetime.
Get over it.

Your making a strawman out of V4 but since you ask, if it was one series last year, yes I would have taken Sundin. A complete dominent horse BOTH ends Ajax. He's obviously a lot older long term.
It was Don who said he makes the players around him better.

Steve Caps need Nylander he is excellent, I can't see him going anywhere. Backs/Nylander and Federov 3 pretty good centers. Can't see Caps not winning the SE.

[Don in St. Pete]

Steve, Thanks for reminding me about Pothier. I'm guessing you guys are crossing your fingers hoping Alzner can make the jump. Better to have Erskine in the press box as a seventh defensman, than as an eveyday guy, I'm thinking. Regardless, It doesn't look like you'll be in a position to make a Huet type deal at the deadline this year, if a need develops.

[léo]

Shloop.
P.

And I can't BELIEVE this got by me:
Antropov, a "great winger"?
Bwaaaah-ha-ha!!!
Good golly, you REALLY are a leaf, ain't ya PD?
Yikes.
Pure preposterousness.
Lemme guess: Darcy Tucker is a power-forward, right?
And Tlusty the second coming of Crosby, right? Well, tell him to keep his clothes on this time.
The perv.
P.

[léo]

That's exactly correct, Steve.
Calder? Pacioretty.
And Ajax, though I thought your post was brilliantly ladled with generous toppings of zing, I have to point out that it's been 3 years in a row, and not 5, that the leafs have missed the Dance.
Also, it's not "was"; it's still "is". Not as much of course, but he's certainly not a shlep. 72 pts is pretty dang good, ya ask me.
And PD never compared him to V4, did he?
Now, just as you must take much of what I say with a grain of exaggerated salt, the double applies to PD. He is a master. Good enough to not only understand the overall aspects of the game but to create Absolute Truths out've half-butted hockey ideas or incidental chains of events.
And then rile you really, really good with'em. You break his point? He won't mention it again and SWITCH points. Take it easy; PD's a good guy.
But tread softly or he'll bite ya!
Ask me: and I take V4 over Mats without thinking twice and you KNOW Leo means that. But right now, on Our team?
Mats is MORE than good enough to the job We want him to do. I don't know about any other teams' analysis of him on their team, nor do I care.
I do know that EVERY other team could use him MORE than We could, except Detroit.
He doesn't come? We'll finish 1st.
He comes? Stanley Cup.
And that's it.
Oh,
And we finally got some medals.
Sheesh.
Wait till Vancouver 2010, I tells ya! We're winter-folk!
Peace, good buddies.
P.

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/212495
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/43457-good-night-mats-sundin-and-good-luck
Found some of these articles interesting, especially the first one, I think it was stolen from me. I like the hilited part that talks about Sundin not making any of the players around him better. And it ditto's one of my strongest points. 11 years in Toronto and 3 playoff appearances. Ouch.
Also didn't Toronto at one time last year have McCabe Kubina Kaberle and Gill playing D for them?? Let him try to play forward with Janek Lundin Kuba and O'Brien a few nights. That would make him want to stay in Toronto for good. I think the best line I read when people say Sundin never had any help (in 8 years??) was the guy who wrote, "who did Crosby and Ovechkin have when they put up 100 points as rookies?? "they played on last place teams and produced" Good night to all God Bless Ya.

[Steve R]

leo,

To make sure I have it straight: as long as Komo is re-signed, the rest of your UFA's can scatter to the four winds and be replaced by newbies in your system and you're ok with it? Gotcha. Which of the 6 newbies is going to win the Calder?

[Steve R]

Don,

For the Caps to get under 2 things will happen: Pothier will be LTIR and his $2.5m will be moved off the list and Alzner is going to start in the AHL. If Alzner has a monster camp and is looking to make the big team, then I'd guess a combo of Erskine or Jurcina and Gordon or Flash to be moved to free up the cap room for Alzner. Either way Pothier is done, Lucic really rattled his brain, poor guy goes for a jog and ends up in bed for a week.

Story I'm hearing is that Nyls is looking to sell his house in Potomic and buy a new one in Georgetown closer to Kettler. Will add more when I hear it, though I'd question why the Caps would move him when Fedorov is under contract for only one year. Doesn't make sense unless Komo is part of the deal...

[ajax]

Don you stole a golden stat from me. VL4 was plus the whole year until the season was done and then he and Marty tanked it the last month.
PD I never understand some of your statements. He makes everyone better around him?? They haven't made the playoffs in 5 years, 8x's in his career. He hasn't had more than 80 points since 1999. Nothing he has accomplished or his team has accomplished has pointed to this top 10 player you are so obviously biased about. He hasn't been an all-star in 5 years. Seems the coaches and the players aren't so impressed by this stud either. PD, explain that one if he is so respected by the league etc etc. And about VL4 I think you forget he has a Stanly Cup ring. He was MVP at the Gold Medal World Championships, he did lead the league in goals in 2007. And more importantly he has a ton more 5/5 goals than Sundin the last few years. He was in top 5 of even strenth scoring 2 of the last 3 years. Sundin meanwhile has 78 even strength points the last "2" years total. Another unexplainable stat. Don said it would be a long year in Toronto without him. Not making the playoffs for 4 years running, I think it is a long year in Toronto with him. How can any of you who know hockey throw aside such a large fact. Mats Sundin hasn't been in the playoffs in 5 years. Spin it how you will this is the measure of leaders and dominant players. Give me one reason other than age and ability that he would bow out from being captain of the Sweden national team?? I promise you I read that in doing my search last night. Anywho I see alot of reasons given to explain his low point totals and his teams failures. Difference makers don't let that happen. We have one big difference in our opinions of Mats. The word "was" versus "is"
Last in a post yesterday, you said they would put Sundin against Vinny and Vinny would be done for the night?? You might be the only person on the hockey planet to suggest Mats Sundin would totally neutralize Vinnie. There ain't a GM from here to Honolulu that would rather have Mats Sundin in 2008 than Vincent Lecavalier, not one. PD you would rather have Mats this year than Vinnie?? Honest question.

[léo]

Steve,
I was talking about Us not caring that ANY of them leave. (Except Komo.)
Then I added that Kovy would sign for less. (I don't KNOW that; I'm just sayin'). Bottom-line: We want to ABSOLUTELY keep Komo. We can live with everybody's else departure. Don't listen to the leaf; listen to me.
PD,
Don't tell me what I "know", please.
Cuz I obviously don't "know" anything about what you're spewing.
If you're such a wizard, why don't you give Bob a call and tell him how to run a hockey club, whaddaya want from me?
I don't understand leaf hockey and therefore, can't follow your reasoning.
P.

[Don in St. Pete]

PD, Even more intersting is how the CrAPS, Ducks, Flames and Flyers will be getting under the salary cap. I read on NHLline.ca that Nylanders has put his house in DC up for sale. Here anything about that Steve? It will be interesting to watch the process shake out. May be some quality talent available cheap. Ducks may be lucky to get a bag of pucks for Schneider before all is said and done. Maybe Nylander is the backup plan for the sHabs if Sundin doesn't sign? To continue on this thought train, many of these and other teams will have little or no manueverability to make a deal at the trade deadline. I feel like the Bolts are in pretty good position at about $3 mil under and some pieces left to deal for picks and/or a defenseman. Will also be interesting to see who the Thrash and Kings sign to get to the cap minimum.

[Don in St. Pete]

PD, Even more intersting is how the CrAPS, Ducks, Flames and Flyers will be getting under the salary cap. I read on NHLline.ca that Nylanders has put his house in DC up for sale. Here anything about that Steve? It will be interesting to watch the process shake out. May be some quality talent available cheap. Ducks may be lucky to get a bag of pucks for Schneider before all is said and done. Maybe Nylander is the backup plan for the sHabs if Sundin doesn't sign? To continue on this thought train, many of these and other teams will have little or no manueverability to make a deal at the trade deadline. I feel like the Bolts are in pretty good position at about $3 mil under and some pieces left to deal for picks and/or a defenseman. Will also be interesting to see who the Thrash and Kings sign to get to the cap minimum.

[PD]

Leo, Gaineys got to put a 10lb cabbage into a 5 lb bag. Rotsa Ruck with that.

Its win or else this year, you know it. Especially after blowing last year when you had all the mojo on your side. Big waste. One crack left.

Wouldn't Huet look good right about now, or last year!!. instead of that stellar 2nd rounder?

[Steve R]

leo,

Which is it? You're fine with the Habs not looking the same because of the kids waiting in the wings, or Komo and the other guys are going to sign with the Habs at a home town discount? I've read your post a number of times and I'm seeing you presenting conflicting arguments. Please clarify.

Oh yea, Malone sure gave the Pens a home town discount too, eh?

[léo]

Just Kovy, PD.
Because you read "somewhere" that these guys are UFA doesn't mean they're gonna bolt for the door, leaving Us holding a sack of pennies from 1932.
Tanguay is not even in the equation. That's Matt D'Agostini's job he's holding.
Kovy MIGHT leave if he has another great season. I DON'T see Bob offering him more than 5mil next year.
Koivu has his Kid's section in the Cancer Ward, are you kidding me? He stayed when We sucked and NOW he's gonna leave? Try a V4 parallel in this instance.
Komo? Think Bob's gonna let HIM go? Never.
Higgy? Maybe. The Isles will make a heck of a pitch. So what? Pacioretty is TWICE as good NOW, nevermind next year.
Dandenault? Wake up. We're trying to dump him.
Kostopoulos? Gregory Stewart.
Boullion? Are you kidding? Frenchie's gonna leave? Bob can't keep this guy? Yeah? Go where? For who? Oh no! If he does? Hmm. David Fischer. Ryan McDonaugh. Pavel Valentenko. Alex Yemelin. PK Subban. Yannick Weber.
Bégin? Frenchie? Ok. Kyle Chipchura. Ben Maxwell.
So take Our UFA's. Take'em. We are NOT worried.
Say "kaboom" if it pleases ya, but it's preposterous again.
The truth is, personally, I WANT the UFA's to leave (except Komo and Kovy of course). I am POSITIVE We'll be even stronger when these new maniacs hit the ice.
Like last year when: 1)Gorges replaces an injured Brisbois and never gives the job back.
2) Sergei called up to replace an extinguished Ryder and makes an INSTANT impact. How? Two ways; a) his strength, speed and grit notched him something like 25pts in 40 games and b)
3) By jumpstarting his older brother who DETONATES and starts scoring highliters after highliters.
The truth is, HabNation KNOWS Pacioretty, McDonaugh and Emelin are gonna kick some serious butt. We can't WAIT for these kids to get here.
That being said? Watch Kovy sign for less.
And Bingo?
Excellent post. THAT'S a hockey post. No amount of my BLUSTER can counter anything you bring up. I can't even attack the weak glove and in fact, I feel kind of goofy, because I have NEVER seen this weak glove. I've seen pucks go in on his glove hand AT TIMES. We ALL saw them go in during the Dance...when he melted.
But We are the only ones who've watched him FOREVER. He doesn't have a weak glove hand. So I say. But like YOU say: who's to say?
Can't argue that.
Let's wait and see. Everything else is posturing.
You betcha!
Brilliant post, Bingo. From now on, if I'm backed up, I will defer to it.
P.

[PD]

Or the Leafs , Habs and Sens.
Mats is sharp with the pennies, the rangers could be offering him deferred $$$

Pretty good assessment of the Leafs D in Brownscombes blog, since you are on Hockey Buzz. Its rather positive going forward.

[Boltflasher]

Latest rumour from Eklund has Sundin with Rangers for only 2 mil...only 2 mil?? What happened to Canucks?

[PD]

No dispute Donald but he's not my captain.

[Don in St. Pete]

PD, One note on V4.....he was -19 in his last 20 games after they traded Prospal. Remember, Feaster and the incoming ownership had thrown in the towel by then. Sundin is a horse but V4 is a faster, more complete player at this stage of his career.

[PD]

Always with the phony bluster eh Leo?

"The Canadiens may be in better shape if they don't land Sundin, considering the number of big-time contracts GM Bob Gainey will be scheduled to negotiate next summer. Currently scheduled to hit the market: top-line right wing Alex Kovalev, captain Saku Koivu, sniper Alex Tanguay, shutdown D-man Mike Komisarek, forward/defenseman Mathieu Dandenault, and valuable core guys Steve Begin, Tom Kostopoulos, and Francis Bouillon. That's two of your top five 2007-08 scorers in Kovalev (84 points) and Koivu (56), and four of your top seven hitters in Komisarek (266 hits), Bouillon (168), Kostopoulos (128), and Begin (119). Montreal also has forwards Tomas Plekanec, Christopher Higgins, Guillaume Latendresse, and Kyle Chipchura hitting restricted free agency next July. Considering the healthy raises sure to come for Kovalev, Komisarek, Plekanec, and Higgins, there's no way the 2009-10 Canadiens will resemble the top-flight club that was poised to make a Cup run in 2007-08. One of the skills required in the post-lockout world is overlapping players to ensure that a big block of contracts doesn't expire at the same time".

You say preposterous , I say Kaboom

[Don in St. Pete]

Leo, So YOU say. I say. let's wait and see. Seems your projected #1 goalie had a meltdown in the playoffs last year and that you lost one of your PP quarterbacks. We'll see if these end up becoming weaknesses or if the sHABS can move on past these issues. We are all starting with a clean slate 0-0-0 and everyone will state their case on the ice, not in a blog. I'm at least realistic in admitting the Bolts have serious questions, that could be weaknesses. Our young d, our unproven goaltending, and questions about chemistry both between the many new faces on the roster and the new coaching staff.

[bingo]

Wow, you are still going at it? Here's the scoop that counts. 40+ years since toronto did anything to speak of.

15 year's since that Habs did anything

4 years for the bolts and they have the additional appeal of being on both piles the Top in 04 and the absolute bottom in 08.

Injuries will tell the tale the Habs were lucky last year can it continue. Will the "kid goalie" find a glove hand? Was it the pressure? First time jitters. I'm not that smart and will let year '1' full season tell the tale .

Toronto - from my view thugs of the Canadian world like the flyers. They always seem more interested in running someone into the boards, high stick cheap shots. The abundance of penalties always takes the toll. They IMHO don't have a team of any value yet.

Bolts - Far too many questions. They Will they be better than last year. However, the 'D' and goaltending are still a question amd until the season is in Jan / Feb we can't make predictions.

Soothsaying about kids whether it's a #1 pick, hot shot goalie, great 'D' pickup mean nada, nothing..... it's only about the show me not last year, THIS YEAR the rest of course is BS.

Vroom Vroom start your engines.

Bingo

[léo]

No, don't ask Gainey; ask me. The team doesn't "contractually blow up" next year. That's ridiculous.
Tanguay was NEVER here. What do we care if he leaves?
Saku will never WANT to leave. At 34, he'll stay near HIS children's hospital.
Higgy? We can afford his loss. Pacioretty will take over nicely.
Komo? Never. 5yrs. 25 mil.
Kovy? Who knows? Maybe.
So this blowup, you're talkin' about? 1 guy.
Now PD, I'm sure you THINK you got it all figured out, but you don't. Don't tell ME about my Boys; I'll tell you. We are getting STRONGER every year. We'll be even stronger NEXT year...after the "blowup".
What'd I tell ya, Ajax?! PREPOSTEROUS, I mean it! Lucky you DIDN'T ask Gainey; he woulda said, "Yeah? Take'em. Take'em all; We'll keep Komo. And Our kids are gonna kick your butts anyway."
Don,
Our "biggest weakness"?
What are Our "other" weaknesses?
(snicker)
Our ONLY weakness, Don, IF you want to call it that.
"Only"
Remember.
P.

[Kincaid]

"plus give the sHabs an answer to Malkin, Lecavalier, Thornton, Ovechkin, Iginla and the other tops power centers and forwards".

That is it in a simple nut shell.
well said Don.

A power center changes the whole game- but maybe you have to play or have played to understand.

You do!

[Don in St. Pete]

Sundin makes everyone around him better. Watch how Andropov and Ponikarovsky perform this year. I'd be surprised if either got more than 15 goals. If Sundin doesn't come back to the Leafers it could be a long season for their fans.

[PD]

Great assessment as always Don(grudgingly)
I think Ottawa is going to sweep in and grab Mats
I think he and Alfie were linemates with the world champ team

They can then ice the Heatly and Spezza line, then Mats and Alfie..doesnt get any better.
They would just camp Sundin against Vinny for the night and its game over unless you win one on the PP.
They have depth they would be my favorite to win the east by far.

They are after Habby as well. Think of that with Mats.

He wouldn't have half the performance pressure that he would get from Montreal and a much smaller media.
Montreal has to win, the team contractually blows up the next year.
Ask Gainey , he will tell you.

Our friend Ajax should be advised that there are two equal sides of ice and a pro center excels in both

Mats +17 Vinny Minus 17

[PD]

I see him they play a lot Ajax and you aren't even in the ballpark, the guy is a stud.. Money. He"s never had a great winger before Antropov last year..

You maybe are more upset that the Leafs have played .700 vs Bolts lifetime.Sundin has kicked the crap out of you non stop. LOL.

He's an 8 mill guy, I think.

If he gets 10 then he is worth 10

Unless I misread then you missed a very significant eastern team and if he signs there the scenery changes.

[Bryan]

I've always been a big fan of Sundin since I was a wee boy firing pucks through my parents bedroom windows (sorry, mom). The guy is a champ, hes solid, consistent, steady, supportive... the guy shows up to play, always. I know he doesn't always get a fair shake cause of Toronto and the media, and its a shame to see them blast the guy after YEARS AND YEARS of production to help that team win, some idiots in the media, I tell ya... anyways, Sundin is highly underrated, BUT.... he is no 10 million dollar man. Thats just silly. I can't really agree with you either, Ajax - I don't think hes lost a step, they just keep burying him deeper and deeper in sh*t in Toronto and it shows.

[ajax]

I did a little research to be fair. PD, I went to many articles from New York to Detroit and I say this with as much honesty as I can, 99% of the hockey world sees Vancouvers offer as "insane" I think most of our blog dittos that thought.
I found a zillion websites and here is the concensus about Sundin.
One team is offering 10 mil---Vancouver and then
Montreal has offered 7.5 million.
Only two other teams have believed to have made offers, Toronto and NYR. No money was reported but I think it is safe to assume niether are near the other two. Common sense??
Detroit is out and not pursuing Sundin (I assume after Hossa was signed)
Am I buying into, "he might just be the one piece that fits theory". I can sorta see that for one year, two tops. Lucky him to be at this perfect time. While doing my research I also read that Toronto has missed the playoffs 8x's in his career. I also read where last year was his best season in his last 7.
I also found something I thought very interesting to say the least.
The Hockey News THN (I know fluff fluff) but be honest, it ain't a mom and pop operation.
It list the top 50 players regardless of position and I went back three years
2006:
Sundin 15 VL4 27 Marty 9th.
2007:
Sundin 48 VL4 21 Marty 47th.
2008
Sundin NA VL4 7 Marty 15th.
I think this illustrates (opinion only) of what I have been trying to say. Sundin is getting old, he has lost a step. I think alot of people see this (including himself, see previous post about not playing on National team anymore)
anywho fun reading, we all have our favorites. PD, I officially quit, you win. By the way Joe Sakic is in top twenty of all three years listed. I know he was banged up a bit last year, but he would get big bucks. Funny I read a Colorado article that said Sakic was considering retirement wondering if he still could compete with the elite at his age. I really believe Sundin has the same thoughts in his head. But I am sure PD doesn't!! gotta love ya PD. God Bless Ya!!

[Don in St. Pete]

Ajax, Many good points in your post, and many with which I agree. However, i do have to say that Sundin has always given the Bolts fits, unless we played V4 on him straight up, and if you don't see it, in Montreal's eyes that is the point. The whole game changes it's complexion in the playoffs and if you don't have that #1 power center that can pick up his game a notch, then you need all 4 centers to pick their game up a notch or more. Nobody is worth the $10 mil unless they can bring you the ultimate prize. Montreal know this is their biggest weakness and are smart in offering all they can to attempt to plug this glaring hole. The Canucks are just trying to keep the fans interested until some of their younger players are ready, a waste of money for them IMO. For Montreal Sundin makes all the sense in the world and he would put up much better #'s there with better linemates, plus give the sHabs an answer to Malkin, Lecavalier, Thornton, Ovechkin, Iginla and the other tops power centers and forwards.

[ajax]

PD, VL4 had 178 even strength points the past three years. Sundin had 127.
For gosh sake he didn't even make the all-star team the last 4 years. And I did look it up on the internet, where Sundin said he would not be joining the National team. He is on the far side of the Mats Sundin of 10 years ago. Stats show it(he has averaged 75 points a season over the last 5 years, certainly nowhere close to elite status) , peers see it (all-star game snubs) and even he sees that he no longer deserves a spot on the National team. In the last 5 years VL4 has 48 more even strength goals than Sundin ( and yes, Sundin does have more PP goals than VL4, back to my statement about 5/5 he is no longer close to a dominant performer). I think of OVie and Iginla that literally single handedly carry weak teams and then their is Sundin way way down the list. Do we speak about intangibles?? His team hasn't even made the playoffs in 5 years. What intangibles?? He never killed a penalty in his life. Other than the Leaf on his jersey I can't see anything that points to this awesome player you love so much. The fact that they haven't made the playoffs says volumes about his status as an elite player, doesn't it??
You bring up International success, and again he is a power play guy for the Swiss. PD if he is so at the top of the center list in the NHL why the heck would he bow out of International competition?? He wouldn't is the obvious answer.
Anywho, you said something to the fact that I lumped Sundin as a PP guy like VL4. Nothing could be more from the truth. VL4 I have never said was a PP boy. Just the opposite, in 2 of the last 3 years VL4 was top 5 in the league in even strength points. That is an awesome awesome stat PD. And it is a fact PD. One year VL4 had 72 even strength points and Mats had 76 total points. Which goes to so much of my criteria as a dominant player. Mats is just not a 5/5 guy anymore. PD two of the last three years Sundin had 42 and 36 even strength points for the entire year. That is a 7-10 million dollar guy??? The Sedin brothers together earn 6.7 million and we are arguing about givng Sundin 7-10 million. Insanity rules!!! A 75 point scorer on a team that never makes the playoffs. What are we arguing about PD?? Anyway I never like to argue and I respect your opinion PD, let's keep it friendly...go Bolts!!

[PD]

Leo I'll be the 1st to jump back on the kids bandwagon..

[léo]

And I hear your pain, PD. Funny how some folks can watch one of your guys for a game or two and suddenly know all about'im, eh?
And then make all-encompassing remarks about'im, eh?
Without knowing AT ALL what he can do?
I hear you, mate.
..wink, wink..
P.

[léo]

Totally agree with you about Sundin too, PD. I DO think he's one of the best in the league. Considering that so few 1st line power centers EXIST, Sundin's cachet is underrated, far as I'm concerned.
Steve,
You're right. Sundin is NOT worth the crazy money that some teams are offering.
But he sure as hell is worth it to Us.
P.

[Steve R]

Never said that Mats sucks, just that in my opinion he's not worth the crazy money that some of the teams are willing to throw his way. While he might be the best center available right now, he's not amongst the best in the league any longer. Again, my opinion.

Look at it this way, for the last 10 years he's averaged 76.3 points a season, and had 78 (I think) points last year. Is that worth 10m? Is that worth 7.5m?

[PD]

Leo I am anything but trying to paint #13 as superific but I do take offense when people who quite obviously don't see him play draw some bizarre conclusions based on nothing but whim.

TSN had him @# 5 Center spot last year. I emailed and asked them what their formula was. Response:

Sundin was at #5 among centres.

I use a weighted formula that incorporates the following statistics:

Goals per game, assists per game, plus-minus, power play goals,
shorthanded goals, game-winning goals, shots, blocked shots, hits,
giveaways, takeaways and faceoff won-loss.

Sundin's plus-17 rating obviously helped.

Regards,
Scott Cullen
Writer/Producer, TSN.ca
scullen@tsn.ca

Enough of that, not my job to be his PR agent. With teams lining up to pay him millions including 20 million for
14 months work, well he doesnt need one.

[léo]

That's all I ever said Ajax. Maybe not as superific as PD paints him but certainly more than you do.
The man is STILL 6foot5, 230 lbs of MASS with a WICKED wrister who plays 1st line center who tallied over 70pts on a garbage team. we think he can kick butt in Mtl. We might be wrong, but what would YOU do?
As for Olllie the goalie,
I think he'll be a good mentor for Smith.
P.

[Steve R]

Martee,

Lighten up Francis. Bolts fans will figure out how to spell his name in due time.

[Martee SantLoooey]

Hey dumb @$$, learn how to spell your goaltenders name. It's not Ollie as in short for Oliver. It's Olie as in short for Olaf! Only one "L" you moron!

[PD]

Your full of it Ajax..total BS

Leafs were in the top 5 teams last year 5 on 5 goals.

What causes that Ajax??..you said he was a PP boy like Vinny.

Sad on your part. He's rated #5 last year.

You have dropped a few rungs.

[ajax]

Leo, you summed it up perfect. Sundin is the best center available at this moment in time. Lucky him. But to associate top center because he is the top center available, I think most people just don't connect that set of dots with one Mats Sundin. I believe Sundin himself said he wouldn't be playing for the National team anymore (age?? better young players??) I also think he hasn't made the NHL all-star game in 4-5 years. ALl which leads to my main point on the guy. He is way past the player I think PD saw him as a long long time ago. God bless the rich who spend their money foolishly (Sundin should say a double Amen to that) Over their careers Sakic and Forsberg were better players than Sundin. Forsberg is one of them Sweets and without a doubt when he was healthy he was head and shoulders better than Sats. Anywho I am not a Sundin basher, all of this to me is about spending Cap dollars wisely and getting the best bang for your buck. Glad we got rid of both Richards and Boyle's contracts and glad we aren't rich enough to blow zillions on Drury, Gomez and Sundin. peace to all

[Pd]

Ajax why don't you look up the top 5 teams last year scoring 5 on 5. Just for fun Ajax.

Ottawa, Montreal, Vancouver and Rangers all have big offers for Sundin.

I'm surprised that they didn't call you for advice.

[léo]

Wagga-wagga. I'm losin' it!
P.