Ranger likely out of European games

Never, ever go crosstown into the heart of Manhattan's theater district just as people are lining up to see some shows. An hour from  the Lincoln Tunnel to the team hotel. Brutal.

Anyway, coach Barry Melrose said he was not counting on Paul Ranger to play in the games Oct. 4 and 5 against the Rangers in Prague. That's a tough one for Tampa Bay in the short term as Ranger is the Lightning's most experienced blue-liner after Andrej Meszaros. No real setbacks to report, said the team. And even though Ranger's right shoulder surgery was to repair a torn labrum, same as Vinny Lecavalier, Ranger's injury was long-term and degenerative. Lecavalier's was acute, happening in a moment of a game. That means Ranger apparently will take longer to heal than Vinny. So don't be surprised if Ranger goes on injured reserve, which means he must miss at least seven days.

As we have explained before, that is not a terrible scenario. The Lightning plays just seven games in 26 days after returning from Europe, so keeping Ranger out does not sacrifice much of the season. The same equation will guide whether Lecavalier is held out or put on IR. But Melrose said it seems as if he is counting on Lecavalier playing.

Lecavalier is scheduled to play his first exhibition Sunday in Berlin.

"I want to get it out of the way," he said. "I want to get hit. I want to start using my instincts and playing like I usually do, and not just think about my shoulder."

Even so, Lecavalier said if he doesn't respond well in Berlin and Slovakia, he has no problem sitting out or even going on IR.

"Better to be safe and wait a week or two than forcing it and something happens and I'm out for six months," Lecavalier said. "But it feels pretty good right now. I'm confident I'll play in that first game."

In other news: The Lightning did not release the lineup for Thursday's game against the Rangers at MSG. ... Why was the Lightning outshot 40-18 Tuesday against New York? "We were weak on the puck," Melrose said. "I can think of 10  times right now when we had the puck and gave it up and they got shots out of it. But that's an area we can clean up very, very easily."

Comments

[PD]

Your on track with that thread Leo and it was about a month ago. I think Don or Puck Daddy were saying Orr and Gretz weren't the conditioned athletes of today or some similar southern hockey patois.

Don your evaluatation of talent is with your heart. Tampa finished as the leagues worst team for a reason and you can't buy your way out.

You have to grow your way out.

[léo]

Say the word, Ajax, and I will personally FIND the post I wrote (what was it, PD? The Orr, Gretzky speech that started it all? a month ago?) and I will retrieve it and copy/paste it here.
It is almost word for word what you and Harvey have just said.
Would Gretzky get as many points in the New NHL? No.
Would he be SIGNIFICANTLY better than everybody else? Yes. By the same shocking margin as between Crosby and André Roy.
Not 215 pts but 140pts EASY.
Which is WAY more than Sid, Ovy and Geno in the New NHL.
Say the word, mate, and I'll find that post.
And Don, quit cryin'. Don't be looking to find dirty motivations in my postings to cover up of the fact that you're afraid of debating me. And don't tell me where and when I "would" have a life if I wasn't here, please. You're in no position to make those kind of remarks. Please and thank you.
P.

[ajax]

Ok, open forum for anyone who actually knows hockey and will talk hockey with their answer. We won both Ranger games but gave up 87 shots in 2 games?? I didn't see any of the games. Has to be some concerns with that number. Is puck possession 2:1 also?? Arty took 2 more penalties 2night as well. Knee jerk reaction is to scratch the old noggin with 40+ shots on goal two games in a row. Talk hockey to me, don't just type "cause ya stink" (some of you are crystal clear and that is your answer to everything "cause ya stink", pretty please.

[Don in St. Pete]

Ajax, You have to remember the Habs inside out blog is about the most boring thing next to being a mortician. Leo would literally have no life if he couldn't stir up crap on our blog. In reality he has no idea about our team, he just knows that we play fair with him when he post's here. Pd on the other hand is a negativity machine, and believes if you have anything less than the Wings D or the leafs, then you are destined for failure. Keep the perspective of what the plebes are bringing.

[ajax]

Leo, you ignored the facts and poked fun to deflect the truth. No one said he was a regular joe, no one denies his mantle, but 215 points in todays NHL, Jagr lead the league twice in the clutch and hold era with less than 100 points. Gretzky easily twice the player than anyone from the late 90's right?? I guess using your argument the talent level back then was just soooooo much better than today's NHL. Must be, look at the record book. It won't kill ya not to be 110% right every second young man. That was my fatherly speech for ya Leo. R U A Politician deep down??

[léo]

Ok, Ajax, you convinced me.
The Great One does not deserve the credit for being the greatest of all time.
He was just a regularly talented punk in a long line of punks who LUCKILY benefitted from a adapting league (for 15yrs!, hell of an adaption-period!)
The mantle of "greatest" should go to a player who gets 130pts in a league un-watered-down, ok? And, you know what, I get the feeling that that player will somehow have a bolt on his chest, right?
Settled.
...floridians...
P.

[harvey]

I heard ya loud and clear ajax. Simple fact is Gretzky was without question the best of his era and arguably the best ever. I only say that because some still think Howe and/or Orr were the best ever. I'll let those who know more than me make their own call.

Fact is, great as Gretzky was, he came into the league just as the too rapid expansion of the NHL had without a doubt "watered down" the overall talent level.

At that time there were guys playing in the NHL that had no business there. You compared 86 to 04. Tremendous changes have taken place since then. Changes in the game and in talent depth. Look back at 86 and count the number of Europeans and Americans that were on rosters. I didn't because I'm too d@MM lazy but I'd guess there were much lower percentages than today. Improvements in hockey programs started several years before 86 in Europe and the States, slowly but steadily started to increase talent depth in the NHL. In the early expansion days many players were guys who were minor league players.

Before long, the States and Europe began to develop bona fide NHL'ers. The overall talent level began to rise. No longer would real NHL teams play against such inferior talent. I wonder how many European and American players were qualified to play in the NHL back then. Look at the Wings. They were one of the first to sign a bunch of Russians. They won a cup with Federov, Vladdy, and the rest. How many Sweedes did thay have on their team last year?

I completely understand the "watered down" theory. Actually, it's not theory at all. It's fact. Gretzky played in those years. Good for him. Would he score 90 goals today? I would guess not. Would he be a superstar today? Absolutely. However, I believe he'd have a tough time producing the same numbers today that he did in his career. No disrespect to him. It's just a different time.

[ajax]

Geeeez I must of really irked our Canadian geniuses. I wasn't even talking about Smith and his head. I was talking about the whole team being out to sea at the end of last year. Mind wasn't in it. Feet weren't into it. And most of all heart wasn't into it. I think Smith was saying in a very nice way that the players appreciate not being under the Torts microscope 24x7x365. Geezerino guys!! Anybody out their with a job that stinks and they just can't get into it. I think that is what it was like last year for the whole team, and my comment was we will be better if for no other reason we have fresh heads wanting to come to the rink everyday. AHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Now back to Gretzky. Leo my young whipper snapper. When 4 guys in the league score 131 points or more. When 5 guys on your own team score 100 points, you can cut thru all the cheese ya want. The league was watered down during that time. Paul Coffey scored 126/121/138 with 48/46 goal seasons. Soooooo using your ultimate wisdom, he is step for step with Bobby Orr, right?? In fact his goals are 25% better than Orr's BEST year. His offensive numbers during that period make the record book look silly (steroids!!) Why?? Even that chump Orr never scored more than 37 in a season. Leo I looked this up so I know it is a fact. One year the Oilers had 4 guys score 48 goals or more. Read that again and then give me your best dissertation on how scoring wasn't watered down those years. Vinny led the league with 52 and he would of been 4th on that team. Last silly stat for you on Gretz, who don't get me wrong is the greatest player of all time (just the numbers are a bit out of skew Leo da Lip)
In the year he scored 92 goals he has as follows:
6 hat tricks
3 four goal games
1 five goal game
35 goals in just 10 games
He didn't put up those kind of numbers in peewee. OK he did, but I have a feeling most of you (everyone south of Canada) get my point.
Yeah Leo, it was all Gretzky that year. You ever heard the hockey phrase, Swiss Cheese?? (other than on this blog about Price??)

[PD]

Steve R
Rock the Red with Ovie
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/mike_zeisberger/2008/09/25/6870931-sun.html

[PD]

Not that much difference in a pro goalie, they all stop 9 of 10 or they aren't there.
If they don't have mental toughness they don't get past midgit.

The D in front of them makes a significant difference.

[Steve R]

Don't worry leo, it's from a baseball quote of his.

[léo]

Yogi don't know jack-squat about goaltending.
P.

[Steve R]

To borrow from Yogi, goaltending is 80% mental and the other half is physical.

[léo]

I think, in this case, Ajax means 80% of a GOALIE'S possible 100% output, not the TEAM'S 100%, PD. No one can see how the overall output of the TEAM can be affected by a goalie's psyche to the tune of 80%. He did apply "everything in life" to Smith.
80% of a goalie's play is in the head is what Ajax's implyin' as complement.
Well, I disagree.
I say 40%.
Which is a HECK of a lot, Ajax, and a number that more closely resembles the point you're trying to make not for "everything in life" but NHL goalies.
80% leaves little room for superior talent to express itself, don't you agree?
Forgive me if I'm wrong.
P.

[PD]

Ajax you say 80% is in the head for goalies? Only if in fact they are head cases to begin with,in which case they don't last long.

I would argue that 80% is what lines up on the blue line in front of you.

[léo]

The reason your friend didn't post, Ajax, is because he would've gotten eaten alive.
Let's say in 50 years, the leading teams are scoring 700 GOALS! Ok? Well, Gretzky would have 75% of the pts on his team while the other "stars" would have 45% on theirs. PLUS, he would lead the league in goals, assists and pts by a SHOCKING margin. Ok? More so than Marty.
Now let's say that in 60 years time, the leading team has 100 goals. Ok? Well, Gretzky would have 75% of his team's pts and the other "stars", 45% of theirs. Ok? PLUS lead the league in goals, assists and pts by a SHOCKING margin. More so than Marty.
Hope that clears everything up.
And this Mario business: in 2004? Are you kidding me?
A) He was 53-years-old. But that wouldn't stop him, granted.
B) Came back from Hodgkins disease. But that wouldn't stop him, granted.
C) His back was SHOT to heck and his vertabrae had turned to JELLO. THAT stopped him. Funny how the obstruction didn't bother him when he would CARRY two opposing guys on his BACK on his way to the goal. It was the REASON he retired the first time, c'mon! Ajax. C'mon.
Tell your friend to look at hockey, not stats. And if we're all mindless egotists, it should be EASY for him to come on here and back up his "findings", not send an emissary, who must now defend a point that doesn't belong to him.
Put Gretzky in his prime in THIS NHL? And he leads the league in goals, assists and points, probably by a shocking margin. That's MY conclusion.
I don't see what conclusions your buddy is presenting. Pure bunk. Play with the stats and you can retire Raycroft's number. So who then, Ajax? Oh, wait, lemme guess,
Vinny?
P.

[PD]

Don right as always on the Mezaros steal but wrong team. Bolts blinked.

[ajax]

Had to pass this along from one of my hockey buddies. He reads the blogs but won't post (calls it mindless egotism) Who me?? He did some homework on the past versus now blog that was running last week. He believes the 80's and 90's were watered down hockey and hence all the scoring records. But what he sent me is quite eyeshocking. The year Gretzky set the record with 215 points(85-86). The lowest scoring team in the entire league that year was Detroit (with 17 wins, yikes) they scored 266 goals. The year(2003-04) Marty led the league with 94 points Ottawa was the NHL leader with, hard to believe, 262 goals. The highest scoring team in the league would of been dead last in the Gretzky era. And defense?? In 1986 Philly lead with GA of 241. In 2004 only 5 teams gave up that many (Philly would of been 25/30 teams) Every other team in 1986 gave up 271 goals or more. In 2004 only one team gave up that many(last place Pittsburgh)
1986 13 100 pt scorers
2004 none
1986 goals/game 7.9
2004 goals/game 5.1
with 2 asssists on most goals, that is 8 more points for each game. The offensive numbers are mind boggling for this era. For everyone.
Gretzky was great for sure, but remember 2003-04 hockey was when Mario wanted to hang it up because all the obstruction was ruining the game. Anywho, great reading and great opportunities to drink Bud Lite and converse hockey (the greatest sport on da planet) Hockey was invented in Toronto, not Montreal right?? No one all Canadian players want to finish their careers in Toronto.

[Tackleberry]

We can survive w/o Ranger for the first two games. Dont want a repeat of what happened to Boyle returning too early.

Get the players healthy and give them a chance to work together. I dont think it is panic mode for the team to get a #1, 2, 3 blue liner.

Does anyone know if the game will be televised? I know it will be on AM640 radio.

[ajax]

I liked what I read from goalie Smith this morning. Reading between the lines a bit I really liked what I read. He commented about playing for Melrose and how guys aren't gripping the stick to tight and it is easier without someone breathing down your back all the time. I truly believe that 80% of most everything in life is between the ears and Smith was saying, gently, how hard it was for "everyone" to play last year. Melrose might not be the answer but I am 99% sure the new attitude from everyone will make for a much better effort, hence a much better team. You can say all you want about professionalism etc etc but in any job when it is a trudge to work, the results suffer. Last year, to put it gently, was the definition of bad work environment. Enthusiasm is quite a cure all. (I hope) Signed by Mr. Koolaid (rosies in hand!!!)

[léo]

Don,
Who would you rather have? Rivet or Mezzy?
Can't compare those trades. Rivet isn't worth MORE than a 2nd rounder. Mezzy is. And yet, he's NOT a top2 D-Man. So to get one, you're gonna have to up your equations to fit the market as well as other's teams' practical necessities.
The fact that Bob got Josh Gorges AND Max Pacioretty for Rivet was HIGHWAY robbery that MORE than made up for the Samsonov debacle.
And PD?
You're learnin'.
May be hope for you yet...
P.

[Don in St. Pete]

PD, By the way, we got a dollar for 3 quarters in the Meszaros trade.

[Don in St. Pete]

PD, RBC and NTMM, We still have to step back and look at the larger picture. Decent offensive forwards are not a dime a dozen commodity either, especially this late in the season. Why do you think there are still so many trade rumours floating around out there? Top 2 guys don't come cheap, but if a team thinks it can't sign a pending UFA within their budget or if the holes on the forward lines are to big to ignore, then some players could come into play. Especially on teams that have solid prospects on defense that they figure might be able to step in and contribute immediately. A #5 or 6 defenseman does us no good. We have 5 of those now. I wouldn't be surprised to see a group of forwards traded for draft picks and picks dealt for Schneider. However, you have to believe that Pitt, St. Louis and LA all have an interest in Schneider as well. I also believe Ohlund could be traded by the Nucks if the price were right and that the Preds have to be looking for some forwards as well. The Stars may also be looking at Schneider though they have cap issues and I'm not sure Burke would trade him to Dallas. I'd be surprised if we didn't see 2 or 3 deals done by the end of the weekend. Not necessarily by us but throughout the league, though I sincerely hope we are a player.

[simple]

has anybody heard anything RE: jay boumeester contract with the panthers?
rumors were he wasn't happy.

[PD]

Thats about right RBC.

Don I get it now, you are calling an expendable 5/6 guy on another team a top 2 guy here.

No one trades a dollar for 4 quarters in this league so packaging Ouellette, Craig Ward etc and expecting gold is a non starter.

A real top 2 d man costs us MSL.
Can't afford it.

[rbc]

top 2 defense men do not come cheap, you would have to unload 4 lesser tier players to take on that salary. Get real, is not going to happen unless we unload a msl caliber player which is not happening. Let give some time to the team and see what happens and next year we can pick up an top 2 defense man, if needed and we won't lose a top six forward to the team. Everybody wants to win the cup, but i'm willing to wait and see what happens this year and then go for the big fish next summer. I just want a competitive team this year that maybe sneaks into the playoffs.

[Not the Marlboro Man]

It would be my guess that Jokkinen will draw some trade attention by the way he has played, coupled with Oullette and Craig or either Jason Ward, I wouldn't say that this is garbage. But the bottom line is that teams aren't willing to let go of their defensive assets right now, especially when the season hasn't even started yet. They will have to wait until the trade dead line or at least well into the season before they will be able to get someone off a trade. Someone is bound to be a bottom feeder early into the season looking for offensive help or they might get plagued by injuries. We'll just have to wait and see. But right now it is what it is. They should have looked for the defensive help at the beginning of the free agency period if they wanted quality veteran help. IMO, they have enough to compete and keep up with their division just because of the offensive talent. Give a chance to some of the young players to step up or and develop before you go morgaging the farm before the season begins.

[Don in St. Pete]

Pd, You might be surprised what can happen, especially if the teams that have depth on defense have serious holes on offense. Nashville for example have 4 guys who could play top 2 minutes for this team, and a couple guys in the minors who could probably make our club. But they have serious holes on the frontline with Radulov gone and Sullivan unable to go. Likewise in Vancouver who has 13 UFA at the end of this season and six RFA and so may not be able to resign Ohlund, but has serious holes at forward after losing Naslund, Morrison, Linden and Shannon and only bringing in Wellwood and Demitra. There are other options out there as well. The Sabres got Rivet for a 2nd round pick.

[PD]

Don you keep going in the same crazy loop on getting a top 2 D man...

Who I ask on this team is a chip that gets the Bolts a top 2 dman???

A bag of garbage won't do it..only MSL will. Is that what you want?

Just askin

[Don in St. Pete]

Olin, I think the Nucks might be willing to part with Matthias Ohlund. He's a free agent at the end of the season and the word is they haven't made him an offer yet. They are also desperate for help at forward. it would seem to be a good match for the Bolts.

[olin storahund]

....Don in SP- hopefully to Stockholm as well for Matty Norstrom. I need a Swede to cheer for.

[Max Hunter]

*L*

DC after reading the remarks about the traffic, I just want you to know I feel the pain. I just moved here (NYC)from Sarasota, and have now discovered the joys of the subway! *LOL*

Max

[Don in St. Pete]

In a way Ranger is tougher to replace than V4 as we don't have a surplus of defenseman. Turtle, this certainly changes the dynamic and Lawton may be forced to pull the trigger on a deal for a defenseman in the next couple days. With the recent injuries to Erik Johnson and Sergei Gonchar, plus teams like the Kings and Thrashers who are woefully short on the backline, there may be some serious competition for the services of a top 2 type defenseman. I'm hoping that Lawton is burning up the phones lines to Anaheim, Vancouver and even Florida.