Crackdown needs some common sense

I'm not even going to write about the game tonight because I believe you're starting to see some good things happen for the Lightning, I really do. I know, they lost again, but, I don't know, just seemed like a little different team. Paul Ranger made a huge difference and the stars came through in the third period. Okay, so Olaf Kolzig made a bad play. Happens. Does a fighting spirit really mean anything? I'm willing to wait and see.

Plus after writing three straight days of very negative stories, I'm sick of being a downer.

So, let's get on the refs.

The NHL is cracking down on stick and obstruction fouls and the referees are calling anything, no matter how small. Seventeen minor penalties were called in Thursday night's game, 10 on the Lightning. Some were barely touch fouls. And can we please have some sense of game situations?

Tampa Bay already was killing off a second-period penalty when Ranger was called for holding. Even if that was a penalty under the strictest sense of the word, if a team is killing a penalty, you don't call another penalty, in my opinion, unless the play is affected. Not even close in this case.

This isn't a homer rant. It is a rant to let the essense of the game come through. Bogging the game down with so many penalties just kills the flow and momentum of the game. Look, I'm all for taking obstruction and stick fouls out of the game, but calling almost non-existant penalties is not the way to do it. There has to be some middle ground. I know I don't want to watch a special teams battle.

You think the refs don't know they are injecting themselves into the game? Listen to Lightning coach Barry Melrose after Thursday's game and read between the lines.

"If you look at the tape, they're penalties," he said. "They're ticky-tack or whatever you want. That's what the referee comes over and tells us when we ask him. He says it, 'The letter of the law is the letter of the law.' Obviously, our guys, you can't touch a guy in the pants. That's it. Some referees call it different. But that's the bottom line. If you touch a guy with your stick, hopefully, it will be called both ways. That's all we can ask for."

So, here is my plea: Call it close, call it tight. But, please, read the flow of the game, and let the guys play. Geez, sounds like I'm channeling John Tortorella, there.

Comments

[Casper]

I agree that this new degraded version of Sarasota Bill is a charlatan and knows d*ck about hockey. The original SB was a delight to read for his insights.
There is a skulking maggot or three out there that gets jollies out of impersonating and denigrating.

A lot of fantastic contributors have either left or gone ‘underground’ (wink-wink). The instigator(s) have always been here (Brad's Hair Stylist? Puhlease!), but have become vicious as they bask in the anonymity and expected impunity.

It was long ago suggested we institute a sign-in procedure to ensure accountability and left column by-law adherence; yet there remain ways around that too, if one is so inclined. It’s a shame so much energy is wasted on rancor and not insight.

Hint to the maggot(s): your domain ID can be hacked and tracked by someone so inclined. Hope you have a dental plan…

Karma is a good moniker and I don’t wish to infiltrate; but karma does tend to zap those who diddle where they shouldn’t and misery wears well on them in other facets of life. Rotsa ruck.

Ah, when I plead for a shutout the other day, I was hoping we’d score too, guys. Nice job anyways.

Go Bolts!

[coach bill]

Tampa Wine Guy- This isn't my party. It's ours! I'm looking forward to meeting all our friends. Sitting each night reading and responding makes us all kind of attatched. Hope Leo checks in at 7 (813)301-6705
Hockey Chic- I think Smitty has really looked good so far ( not that we've gone very far yet, but let's hope he's the real deal.See ya at Shots on the 25th

[ajax]

I have thought for sometime now that the Shrink is among us again. Seems pretty obvious to me. Good call Lrod.

[LightningRod]

C Bill, H Chic, leo etc. Sarasota Bill was a regular blogger here for a long time. About 1.5 to 2 years ago he stopped commenting here, as he didn't like the personal attacks by the Shrink and others. He finally stopped blogging when the Shrink started posting under his name. The above SB blogs don't reflect the tone or style of the SB I know; and he wouldn't make the comments made in the blogs here. It goes to show you that the person behind SB's name just wants to stir-up cr-p; and has to hide from the light of day. In fact, back then, this blogger even carried on numerous long blog conversations with himself using other's names.

I guess there is a 1/10th of 1/10th of 1% chance that I am wrong. If I am wrong, SB send me an email through Yahoo; and I will apologize to you and also post it.

[mike p]

leo, what is your major and where do you go to school? I must have missed when you mentioned it before and I'm curious.

[léo]

Twiner.
Never heard those terms?
In that case, I respectfully wish to disengage from the debate.
On second thought, it occurred to me that we do refer to them as fouls and I must have forgotten it.
I should have remained silent instead of looking like a fool.
You win.
P.

[léo]

Excellent. The rule book.
Well, guess what?
We never say "section 9", either! Or, "hey, did you see that 43.6 he pulled on that guy? Total FOUL!"
Gimme a break wit yer rule book. Two different contexts. 1)Book. 2)101 years of human hockey interaction.
I was talking terminology and so was Hullnoates. I'm sure the words "dying quail" do not appear in the baseball rule book, either.
Refs don't call "fouls"; they call "penalties" and we all know it.
I don't see the rule book saying: Physical Penalties, Restraining Penalties or Stick Penalties; do you? The "foul" is the ACT, not the CONSEQUENCE. "Foul" in this rule book refers as a DESCRIPTION of the penalty, c'mon. Yes or no? This sorta stuff just HAPPENS to be my major at school, I've mentioned this before, haven't I?
Lemme ask ya sumpin': Does the word PENALTY appear in the book?
The foul leads TO the penalty, doesn't it?
It's not a 2minute foul; it's a 2minute penalty. And it would BE for "fouling".
But we don't say "fouling".
We say hooking, tripping, slashing, boarding, roughing, fighting etc, that's what we say.
Well, those of us who know the difference, anyway.
Zinger!
Hey, you zinged first. And I'm still nice.
P.

[Twinebulge]

Come to think of it I never heard of a "dying quail"...or a "lob" in hockey either. Never. Ever.

Tennis, anyone? :^p

[Casper]

The Canadiens pretty much skate through the games as léo does along his keyboard. Sanctimoniously and in utter shock when called on a 'penalty'.

Other 'contributors' have said---pardon---typed often enough, don't enable these hacks. Press on with pride, Lightning Pride, that is.

When injuries decimate Mtl and sink their Century Season, we will show the interlopers a class act by not sticking our heads inside their kitchen window and yabbering about the causes with faux empathy.

Have a Bolts day!

[Twinebulge]

"Do we call a penalty a "foul" in hockey? No. Never. Ever."

Vraiment? Sacré bleu blanc rouge!

Not for Trolléo (since as a Montrealer he knows all) but for the benefit of all other readers who may have been misled by his blather, the NHL Official Rule Book is posted on NHL.com (2007-08 version) for your enjoyment at
http://www.nhl.com/rules/index.html.

Section 6 is titled "Physical Fouls", Section 7 is "Restraining Fouls", Section 8 is "Stick Fouls", and Section 9 is "Other Fouls".

(Maybe Trolléo could submit a suggestion for a section called "Foot in Mouth Fouls".)

OK, those are the Section titles, but is there anything more substantial to keep us hockey retards down south in Stanley Cup land from looking like dolts for crying foul? Just for fun, a Lightning-quick perusal (for the lazy, this means actually READING) of individual hockey rule descriptions that use the word "foul" reveals Rule 43.5, 43.6, 45.2, 46.3 (uh-oh...this one uses the word foul as both a noun and a verb!), 46.5, 46.6 and 53.6 (again, noun and verb). Remember now, these are HOCKEY rules, the exact discussion topic of this thread. After five minutes I grew tired of this exercise, but there are undoubtedly numerous other examples. Most of you get the idea.

Now we understand, in Montreal it's probably part of the culture to be...that way...therefore, coming off as a smug, obnoxious, holier-than-thou twit is expected and tolerated with a knowing grin and roll of the eyes by most. This is only the Official NHL Rule Book, after all, which is composed and edited in New York or Toronto if I'm not mistaken, so what the hell do they know.

Pretty embarrassing, though, for a Montrealer to be taken to school yet again in something hockey-related by a *gasp!* Floridian. This is getting old. You'd think he'd grow as tired of it as we are.

Our little friend up north might choose from the following age-old pearls of wisdom:

1. Look before you leap.
2. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
3. The empty can makes the most noise.

Paix

[Mike13]

1 piece too many Leo. Either don't give up Picard or the 1st.

Still, Meszaros was by far more in line with what this team needed to do in the offseason. They needed an upgrade at forward, but went way overboard without addressing the D until the Mesz and O'Brien deals. I'm not a Malik fan, but the guy is a legit veteran (unlike Krejcik) and is 10-times better than Heward.

[léo]

Sorry, MikeP. You're right. Bryan's movin' up here and he thinks he'll be able to resist the Artiste's appeal. Had to set'im straight.
Hullnoates is absolutely right, No-name:
No "fouls" in hockey. Generically speaking, SURE you can SAY it, but it doesn't apply regardlees.
If it DID, it would've been used at least ONCE in the history of hockey-TIME before Cristo used it now.
So call'em 2min fouls or 5min contraventions or 10min CRIMES; it's still a penalty.
Every sport has their terms. 2 minutes in a hockey-game, you call that a "two-minute warning"? No, it's 2 minutes left in the game.
Guy puts his hand on the puck in his crease, is that called "goaltending"? No, it's called "putting your hand on the puck in the crease".
Do we call a lob a "dying quail"? No, it's a lob.
A breakaway pass is a "through ball"? A one-timer is "off the volley"?
Do we say "It's 4-love, Rangers over Islanders! What an Ace by Drury!"
No, different sports; different terms.
Do we call a penalty a "foul" in hockey? No. Never. Ever. Can you? Sure, why not? You can say "what an Ace by Drury" too.
Hullnoates is right to get on a high-horse, Noname.
Plus, he attached his NAME to his opinion. Gotta respect that.
Oh, and folks,
Smitty is your guy. I'll say it again: if you bump him for Olllie after TRADING Brad for him + NAMING him your num1? You'll lose a lot of face. Smitty is your guy.
Kolzig was a GOOD signing, not your best. That would be Mezzy.
How much again for the ex-Sen, though? I forget.
P.

FYI hullnoates I came from an NHL city up north and when moving to Florida chose Tampa Bay in 1991 specifically because they announced a team would be coming...picked a home based on its being two miles from Sunblades Ice Arena...and lots of hockey folks I know use the word foul. It's a generic term, verb or noun, for committing an act disallowed by the rules. Basketball, football and even baseball have fouls too >:^D

But hey, no harm, no foul. Park the high horse by the trough, sidle up & set a spell

[mike p]

Leo, that was some habs rant! At least throw in some minor bolts comment at the end or something...the bolts fans (who don't particularly care for the habs) need something entertaining to read.

[hullnoates]

Look, I'm not one for picking on a non-traditional hockey city. Fans in Florida can be just as passionate as fans in Toronto. But Damian please, in hockey there are penalties. There are no fouls. You make it too easy.

[léo]

Why have our posts been erased? What gives? What's wrong with power rankings?
And we meant "poutine" as the FOOD, not the Ivan!
Boy'o'boy, they go all out, eh?
Bryan,
As fer the Kid, I'll say it again: Yes, he is.
As fer the Artiste, I'll say it again: Mr.Gainey. In fact, I'll say that one twice: Mr.BOB GAINEY, Bryan.
I assume you KNOW Mr.Gainey, Bryan. I don't need to explain how venerable he is.
He "Talked" to Kovy and unleashed the Artiste. Nobody knows what he said to the Artiste during the "Talk" on the bike path by the St-Lawrence but whatever it was, it dotted every eye and crossed every tee.
Been a Ruler ever since. The Brothers K hold him in absolute AWE.
That's the part you know about.
The part you DON'T know is everything he's been doing in the CITY since the "Talk".
THAT'S why he's "changed". The man has the City in his POCKET.
And he'll put you there too, mate.
That's why I KNOW that WHEN it happens, Bryan, you will be man enough to post it here.
Cool?
P.

[PD]

Those player names make sense in that light Flasher,certainly not in any other.
right on

Kolzig IMO was the BEST signing of the entire summer next to Stamkos. FINALLY we got the goaltending dyke plugged. Sure he's older, vastly more experienced and solid than the other two, has won the Vezina, seen late playoff action and been an All-Star... but why hold that against him. Yes Virginia, he mishandled a puck last night and it ended up in his net--something like that could NEVER happen to Mike Smith, right?

pffffff

[Hockey Chic]

I agree Herb. Kolzig sucks. Ramo is the future. I'm not sold on Smitty.

[Herb]

I was also wondering why Ramo didn't get a chance to back up Smith because he was fantastic in the pre-season. The Kolzig signing was not good in my opinion.

[Herb]

First of all I attended the game last night. From the opening faceoff, I was bored half to death. I wondered why I spent money on full season tickets thinking that this team might win a game here or there. I seem to be wrong. The MVP line was broken up and a VERY slow Ryan Malone was put on the same line with gifted skaters such as Vinny and MSL. That left me wondering, what the hell. The penalties made it just unbearable to watch by killing the flow of the game. One stinkin'(the 3rd) period doesn't make the whole game, come up smelling like a rose. When the Red Wings come to town, it will be carnage. Oh and by the way Carle is a very bad D-man.

[Boltflasher]

That was me, sorry..

I think Olie, Roberts, and Recchi were guys that Barry wanted. Of the 3, I think, long term, only Olie will work out. If the other things with Barry are as PD says, look for Barry to move "upstairs" at Xmas and one of the assistant coaches to take over....I would be surprised if OK will long tolerate their $$$ being squandered if their actions up to this point are any measuring stick...we'll see...

[ajax]

We need to play Smith 80/20, minimum. I can not imagine any other team having 4 days off and playing their number 2 goalie on the heels of a 3 game losing streak. A head scratcher for sure. If Olie wins last night they play him again Saturday night?? jeepers creepers I hope not.

[PD]

If you guys can handle the explainables and till now , many here can't, the problem with the Bolts isn't chemistry , its Melrose.

On very good authority, the players are seeing him as yesterday's man. The drills he runs are all unimaginative and the same. The organization of the team is herky jerky and incomplete. He doesn't use his assistants who are a very good resource.

Raider is a good x's o's guy, Tocchet and Waltz know the players side, yet it's all Melrose.

It's not playing in the room, what a surprise.

Lawton can't fix it cuz he didn't hire it.

There is a problem here Houston.

It's not one that self corrects with a cheap win or two.

[Steve R]

Ajax, falling in the for what it's worth catagory, last year Olie played his best hockey when he was in net every other game.

[Bryan]

I'm hoping you're kidding, Andrezej. I really am.

[ajax]

4 days rest, a team really needing a W, and they sit Smith, the goalie of the future. That is the true one unexplainable for me from last night.

[Andrzej]

Last Summer, for less than $1M TBL could get from Penguins goalie Ty Conklin, the future star of the goaltending. Instead, Kolzik was selected. We have to be ready for many games with three or more goals allowed.

To the referees: please penalize for every stick foul. Stick is only to pass and shoot, and not to hit or hook.

[rbc]

Power rankings, r u kidding me??? 4 games into the season!!!! Please, that's like saying the team that finishes 1st, plays for the cup. All you people complaining u can't watch them, don't and stop your bit**ing. Stop going to games, same people that the year they went to the cup say, i was there from the beginning, losers. They looked better last night than the previous game and hopefully they keep getting better and in another 15-20 games we will know what we have, could be great could be awful we don't know?? give them a chance until then don't watch or go to the games. About the ref's and this is not only about the lightning, i'm talking league wide, the games are boring to watch, they have no flow with all these ticky tack calls. Unless it affects the play let it go, also drop the instigator rule better product on the ice and most of all get rid of buttman!!!!! GO BOLTS!!!!

[Steve R]

Well, I'm trying to get up there next June for the draft. If I make it, I'll have to try the poutine's (or is poutine both singular and plural?).

[jeff]

well the coach is poor thats for sure and Steve R, You asked what a poutine is? Well its fries covered with cheese and gravy, and it is absolutly deliciuos!

[Bryan]

I forget what club we went to off St. Denis but we hit a resto across the street that had spicy poutine and I didn't expect much, the place was new, but busy for 2 am... that was probably the best one I have had out of all my trips.

And no, Price is not jesus... and no, I do not like Kovalev, and yes, I WILL wear my Vinny jersey just to stir up the crowd. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah.

[léo]

Good rules. Now here's what's going to happen.
1) Excellent. Saku is The Man. But Higgy is part of EVERY trade talk. Every team wants him. There's talk of Gaborik now. You KNOW this. Getting his jersey might be...well...you know.
2) You will find that NO ONE subscribes to this V4 business except the oldtimer French reporters. The rest of Us live in the here and now. You'll have no worries on this front unless you read those oldtimer's "editorials" in the Journal de Montréal.
3) The Priceberg IS Jesus. You will be witness.
4) No, Bryan, you won't wear your jersey. You'll be one of Us, by the time the Bolts arrive.
5) You will KNEEL before the Artiste. See if you don't. What, you think no one HERE thought the way you do when he first arrived? He's CHANGED. He had a TALK with Mr.Gainey; don't you understand what that means??? Mr.Gainey, Bryan! The "talk" (no one knows what was said) ACTIVATED the Artiste in him. He's changed. And when I say "changed", I mean "CHANGED". Into the "Artiste" everyone knew existed in him. You will venerate the Artiste as We all do.
See if you don't.
And the best poutine is regular. Don't add nothin'. My favorite is Alma's on Jean-Talon.
Chicken poutine, gotta admit, you go to any St-Hubert.
But if you like super different condiments, you go to Chez la Mère on Masson.
Think you c'n get some with crab over there if you've a mind to it. Bleeech.
Enjoy.
P.

[Bryan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine

Embrace it. Love it.

[Steve R]

What's a poutine?

Yea, Ov seems to enjoy knocking the crap out of Malkin every time we play the Pens. Malkin's boarding of Semin (BS call, only 2 minutes my a@@) will fuel the fire for the next meeting. If my guys can figure out how to play in the 1st period they'll be downright dangerous.

[Bryan]

I already told my girl i'll be a habs fan with a few ground rules...

1. Koivu is the only jersey i'll ever wear, although I am warming up to Higgins.

2. No Vinny to Montreal talk. Ever. Nope. He's a Tampa man now and thats the way it stays.

3. Carey Price is not jesus, but he is a promising young goaltender.

4. When Tampa is in town, my bolts jersey is on. No exceptions.

5. I still can't stand Kovalev and you can't change my mind.

Now, I could go for a chicken poutine at dixon poulet, that really killed the hangover last time I was up there.

[léo]

You sure it's a good idea to move up here, Bryan?
ESPECIALLY this year?
Hockey Chic was smart. In'n'out, few days, tops.
If you stay?
Within a month, you'll be one of Us.
Scratch that. Three weeks.
Are you SURE you wanna do this?
If you are, then you are most welcome, Bryan.
P.

[Bryan]

Power rankings are kind of... meh. What matters most to me is your record and streaks through mid January to mid or end March. Thats what counts.

Leo, going to be moving to Montreal soon so have that poutine ready!

[léo]

Sorry Bryan.
All yours.
P.

[léo]

Progressive power rankings.
http://thehockeynews.com/articles/18681-Power-Rankings-Oct-14.html
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/10/14/nhl_power_rankings_week1/
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/powerranking#
Not for weak TB stomachs.
P.

[Bryan]

Leo, you need to cut back on the typing and start making me poutine.

[léo]

Yoink!
P.

If you can play the Isles for the next 75 games, you're all set.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Hey, just a WEE jab; y'all can take it.
See Ovie and Geno trying to decapitate each other last night?
Yikes.
It's the old Moskva vs. Leningrad battle flaring up again!
(I don't know what I'm talking about)
P.

[Don in St. Pete]

Sarasota Bill, I guess you're not paying attention to or actually reading the posts. Nobody here is blaming the refs for the Lightning loss, they're just commenting that so many chincy penalties interrupt the flow of the game, making it less enjoyable for the fans watching. Hockey was meant to be played as a fast paced north to south game, not over half the game watching one team or the other pass the puck around the periphery, waiting for an opening. I'll buy your season tickeys if you hate the Bolts so much.

[Steve-O]

Haters and homers. There has been tremendous growth over the last 4 games. Guys are starting to fight for the puck, win some battles and heck, we even see someone park in front of the net once in a while. Puck movement out of the back is vastly improved (keep working) and now we need the forwards to shoot. If we can stay off the PK then I am optimistic that the offense will gel too. Its four games in--relax a little.

[Mike13]

The worst part of last nights game was the lazy stick slashing penalties.

The best part was Ranger's return.

He and Meszaros look like true NHL defensemen. The others still need a lot of work. But we already knew that going in to this season. Perhaps Malik will help build some real NHL quality depth to our blueline.

Dumb, unfortunate play by Olie in OT.

The backchecking by our centermen was attrocious. Same play, rebound in front with a wide open net, their forward totally beating the backchecking center (Roberts once, Vinny the second time).

[Mike13]

Wow SB, that's pretty harsh. Who wee-weed in your cool aide?

[Sarasota Bill]

I'm saving the posts from non-hockey town, USA. Blaming the refs? What a joke. This team is pretty horrible and the coach stinks up the proverbial wazoo. Too bad if you purchased season tickets to watch this collection of creampuffs, never wases, over-the-hill geezers, and temperamental whiners. Well, you can always mix with your fellow crybabies at Shots next week.

[Craig]

The ticky-tack hooking and holding penalties are killing the game. Game 7 '04 was replayed on the NHL Network yesterday, THAT is how the game should be played and how the game should be called.

The calls they're making now are gonna turnoff both the hardcore and fringe hockey fans. It's unwatchable. They should adopt the basketball rule on fouls where they only make a call when an infraction causes an unfair advantage, otherwise they swallow their whistles. You even lift your stick around the hand area blade down and they call hooking, it's a joke. It's only a matter of time until they take checking out of the game.

As far as Carle, I thought he played okay. Made some great blocks and was out of position a couple of times. He fumbled the puck at the blueline in an important shift but how many times did we watch Dan Boyle do that the past couple of years.

The overall effort was better(regardless of how bad the Isles are and w/o DiPietro), especially in the 3rd period and I credit that to Artie. He cameout hitting EVERYBODY and that basically set the tone for the period. He played well. Nice to see Malone finally payoff crashing the net which we still don't do enough of. Mezi looked good and Ranger looked better and fresher then I expected.

We need to play a complete 60 minutes of hockey, learn not to take the lame penalties and it's apparent that we aren't very good at 4-on-4 hockey right now.