Melrose: "I'm going to move on"

First, let me thank those of you who e-mailed to inquire where I was over the weekend. I know there was a lot of news going on but the weekend was a long-planned break and my first days off since Aug. 31, and I thought Joe Smith kept everyone up to date.

Now, it's time to wrap up this Barry Melrose thing. Talked to him today and he reiterated what he has said during the weekend, that he believes the players revolted against him, though he said he would not name the players he believed were involved. That was a little disappointing, I have to say. Not that I want to start a he-said, she-said, but I just think if you're going to make an accusation like that, you should say to whom you are referring.

Instead, Melrose, who said he is going to be back in broadcasting "pretty quick," offered this when asked if he could say to whom he was referring:

"Nah, I don't think so. I'm done with it now. It's water under the bridge. I'm going to move on with what's going on."

For what it's worth, both Marty St. Louis and Vinny Lecavalier, the team captain, said they had not spoken to either owner Oren Koules or Len Barrie or GM Brian Lawton about Melrose's firing.

"We were not involved in any decisions," Lecavalier said. "I don't think anybody went up there and talked to ownership about it. It was their decision. It's their team."

Melrose said one of the biggest bones of contention he had with ownership and management was the minutes played by No. 1 draft choice Steven Stamkos.

"It was a constant battle between me and the owners," Melrose said. "They wanted Stamkos to play more. They wanted (Radim) Vrbata to play more. They wanted Roberts to play more. Every day was a constant battle. Every conversation was about it. I wouldn't do it. I'm a big believer you have to earn your ice time. If you're not one of best guys, you don't deserve to play, no matter how much you make."

Melrose said Stamkos will be a "great" player. "But he's not a great player right now. ... What you teach is the better he plays the more ice time he gets. That's how you teach people."

So, what have we got here. The bottom line, as Melrose said of Koules and Barrie, "I wasn't a fit for these guys."

But it went both ways. I spoke to enough players today who said Melrose's on-ice structure wasn't what it needed to be. The game certainly is not any more about throwing the puck on the ice and let the best players win. It is about giving players detailed instructions. If this happens, you go here. If that happens, you go there. It's systems. There is a lot to be said for that. I don't think anyone will argue the Lightning was the best team in 2004, but under then-coach John Tortorella, it had the best structure. The players bought it, and the team thrived.

The Tortorella regime also made extensive use of video. Did Melrose? The sentiment was, perhaps not enough.

Melrose's response: "It's (BS). we were one of the best defensive teams in the NHL. We gave up fewer goals in the first period. How do you do that if thet eam doesn't have any structure?"

Melrose is actually correct on the point about first-period goals. Entering tonight's game, Tampa Bay has allowed nine, lowest in the league.

Still, take these two quotes from new coach Rick Tocchet for what they are worth. Neither was in response to any question about Melrose. in both instances he was speaking generally.

"You have to let players know exactly where they are supposed to go and supposed to be. There are no excuses now. For whatever reason, we didn't battle as hard as we should have, and it didn't look like we knew what we were doing on the ice."

And this:

"There won't be any excuses on this team. Guys will know what is expected and what their role is, and once they hit the ice, that's all they'll have to worry about is their play. They don't have to worry about where am I going, I don't know what I'm doing. They're going to have a ton of information."

In a related matter, Melrose said he does not want to coach again. "It was really perfect. My last game was against the Detroit Red Wings, the organization I started with. I think God was trying to tell me something."

So we move on to tonight's game with the Panthers.

Tocchet said an MRI exam on Ryan Malone's injured leg was negative, but did not say when the left wing, who skated briefly this morning, is expected to return. ... Mike Smith is in net. ... F Ryan Craig will be scratched. ... Tocchet spoke of a two-player setup in which he will try to keep two players together to develop chemistry (such as Jussi Jokinen and Mark Recchi) and rotate a third player onto a line. " ... Tocchet said Stamkos will take shifts at right wing with Lecavalier and St. Louis but also play some center. "We have to get him a little more minutes and see what he can do," Tocchet said.          

Comments

[PD]

BTW,Man did Barrie get hosed big time in both deals for Danny/Brad and Kuba/Picard and a 1st.
What do we have back again?
Oh yeah a 3 and a 6 and some $ to buy crapola.

Not to mention the other 1st gone for the remnants of Shane Obien.

[PD]

Ajax with your Tampa limited knowledge, I know some things are tough to process.

When a guy is named the 1st star of a game, he was deemed to be the best player on the ice.

That would be Picard.

[Ajax]

Upon further review, the call is reversed, hockeytalkie, you are right, and yes it was game 2. I love Boyle but he was far less effective in the scheme of things during the playoff run, especially as we went deeper each seres. By Calgary it had become HS date night at the drive-in(those days were fun!!! Hands everywhere!! Clutch and grab was an awesome way to play the game!!!) and the bigger stronger Dmen became more and more important. That was only 4 years ago but man do they call the game different now. And Mr. Danny Boyle thanks the leagues rules committee about 6.7 million times a year!!! Another guy who's name you barely heard was Stillman. To this day I believe he was hurt more than he ever led on. Last comment on the good ole days film. Brad Richards actually scoring goals around the net, and taking some punishment to get er done. That part of his game left with the 39 million green. He would be so much more effective if he pushed himself to pay the price, but I haven't seen ole Brad around the crease in a long long time. Pd, Picard the best player on the ice?? I wish you could see my face. Some of your comments are just so derned anti-Bolts in every which way. Every guy that left is a stud, every guy that game is a bum. It is impossible for me to understand with all of these studs that left how we ever finished dead last in 07/08. Maybe coaching??

[hockeytalkie]

my bad, it WAS kubina. i miss-read the shift chart at nhl.com.

re: 2004 cup dvd not mentioning boyle

in game 1 recap, i think they talk about boyle's house burning (as if the evening didn't suck already). then him scoring a goal in the next game (2) dont they? seems like they interviewed him about it as well.

[PD]

Was a great game, Sens should have won it.
Picard best player on the ice.

[Ajax]

Only at an Ottawa home game could Ottawa lose and still have the 1/2 stars. Ottawa has a worse record than we do. They have zero transition game, just like we do and hence, their D is below average. When Kuba and Picard are 1 and 3 in minutes you KNOW you are in trouble, and they are. Their pplay has struggled and they are absolutely dead meat 5/5. Just the facts man. Is anyone meeting before the game tomorrow night?? When and where?? I am about 86% sure I can go. Need two tickets though(free) HAHA. IF PD goes I suggest we play pin the tail..... You know, just some good ole kidding fun with our Toronto fans. First round on PD, oops I forgot he doesn't actually go to any games!!!! I love this sign in thing, technical geniuses the Times!!! And right on cue, the only complainer is PD, although for once, just once I agree. What's with the LZ Boy junk. Furniture stores will be having 80% off sales in about two weeks. Go Bolts Go!!!!!

[PD]

Well on the same topic,ex Bolt Dmen: tonights 3 stars in Montreals Shootout win
Three Stars
1. A. Picard - OTT (Goals: 0, Assists: 2)
2. S. Donovan - OTT (Goals: 0, Assists: 0)
3. C. Price - MON (Saves: 23, Save Pct: .920)
Scoring and slamming.

[Ajax]

Actually Richards, Modin, Kubina and Sydor were on the ice. Check the film. If you watch the CD, Boyle is not mentioned one time in the series hilites versus Clagary, except when he almost became Bill Buckner with his Game 6 booboo bigtime. The rule changes benefitted Dan Boyle more than any player from our cup team. Come to think of it everyone thought with our forward speed the new rules would be gravy, but oops probably only Boyle has been near himself since that day, and we have yet to rebuild anything close to a D since then.

[hockeytalkie]

one last stat on 2004 G-7 final moments:

dingman, richards, modin and sydor were on ice as time expired. andy was in the box. it should be noted that sydor got the benefit of catching his wind first when MSL got high sticked and then again when andy went to the box. else he certainly would have come off for 30 seconds. as you may recall we forechecked (that's the fwds) so well in the last two minutes that Kipper wasn't able to get off the ice until about 16 secs left.

i.e. the D men that were out there were still fresh.

as a side note:
wow, who puts 3 fwds out in the last 30 seconds of game 7 when on the PK and leading by only one? very ballsy Torts, very ballsy indeed

[hockeytalkie]

i agree that DB is not meant to be a PK guy but bolts were in the cellar when boyle returned. and i dont think using him any differently in Feb and March would have changed their fate.

again if these other D men are sitting for 2 minutes, coach has to use who's left on the bench. and lukowich's injury overlapped DBs return as i recall.

i dont know that JT had many choices. unlike in 2004 when cullimore was the only injury of consequence during the regular season.

[hockeytalkie]

just did some looking up:
2004 playoffs defensive leader in even strength TOI for tbl...
drum roll please...

Dan Boyle

PP-TOI boyle
SH-TOI kubina
over all it appears boyle took few shifts/game but his shifts were longer.

here's the link

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20043TAMDADAll&sort=evenStrengthTimeOnIce&viewName=timeOnIce

[Boltflasher]

Check Boyler's penalty kill minutes in SJ vs what he did last year with Bolts. Boyle is misused as a PK killer. Yes, would agree that GM was at fault that if Torts felt compelled to use Boyle that way but either way, it is still misuse...that is not his forte'...no question Boyle is one of the best offensive defensive when used properly, but he needs a surrounding cast to be effective whereas a Souray can still be counted on to check and hit and move the guy out from the front of the net in addition to his offense. Silly comparing the two...

[hockeytalkie]

point well taken about contract length (esp on VL4), but the D that was allowed to be played in 2004 puts you in the box in 2008, which is why is was easy to let Kubina and Cullimore depart. Sydor's role is a bit of an enigma in the new nhl. i think he was let go in favor of youth/money as well. Sarich got a good payday in Calgary but not great b/c of what his role is. look around the league: Pratt and Cullimore are just vet 6th D-men. while i think Pratt is better than OB, i think the hope was OBmight be better longer term b/c of age, so they went with youth over experience, similar thing w/ranger over sarich.

if there was no cap everyone except cullimore and stillman would have been back after the 04 cup. alas, there is. so everyone but detroit (great pipeline), must decide win today or 2 years from now.

one more thing. i think you would agree, had they NOT re-signed DB he would have gotten a much bigger (although shorter) payday as a UFA. in effect, he took a pay cut to stay and then got shipped out anyway.

kinda of a "at least kiss me before you flux me" move by OK. if i were him i'd be bitter too.

just checked out Sharks Current Defensive stats leaders:
goals: 6 boyle
points: 16 boyle
PP goals: 4 boyle

boyle is 2nd in toi to Vlassic (and he's 2 min ahead of Blake in 3rd)
boyle is 2nd in +/- by one to ehrhoff
boyle is 2nd in shots by 2 to blake
boyle is 2nd in PP points by 1 to blake

doesn't really sound like a situational player to me. SJS would have been happy with HALF of any of that production from Carle. probably the deal that puts them over the top this year.

[RF]

To Leo -
Even though you sound as if you know of what you speak in regards to hockey & 80's hair - you obviously have a supercilious attitude towards we southern hockey fans. Next time you go south to enjoy a beach somewhere, remember the locals probably have the same attitude regarding your usual lack of fashion sense.

[ajax]

hockietalk, Boyle is a great player. San Jose is a 5 star team w/out him. They have two of the top 10 scorers this year and niether is Thorton. The kid getting all the minutes on D is the rave of SJ. Boyle is a great player. His contract was to long is my beef. Just like VL4 contract was to long. Last to reminice a bit. The last 5 minutes of the game versus Calgary. Danny was not on the ice much if at all. I think Kubina played half the third period, but that was a different era gang. Danny is a great player. In year 4-5-6 of his 6.7 million dollar contract I don't think I would want him, or VL4 when he is making 10 mil at age 37 to be honest.

[léo]

Pat Burns would be a STUPID choice, noname guy, so it DEFINITELY won't happen.
And if Burns, HIMSELF, wants to return (which he doesn't), then he's a suicidal fool.
P.

These guys are paying millions to three (3) head coaches. Watch them give Tocc a chance, then bring back Torts after Xmas. "How'd you like the chance to EARN some of that million-dollar salary, Johhny boy?"

That loud sound you just heard was Lecavalier and Artyukhin gulping hard

(In reality Pat Burns would be a better choice...so that won't happen)

[hockeytalkie]

look at my post from yesterday night at 8:47, melrose's nhl coaching numbers speak for themselves.
at 5-7-4, 2008 was his second best record as an NHL coach.

my point:
HE SUCKED 13 years ago and he SUCKS NOW! only now he's a bit richer.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
back to Boyle's minutes.
when you consider how many times OB was sitting in the box for stupid lazy penalties last year, the bench gets shorter and you have to play who's NOT in the box. i.e. D F'n B!

also, if you guys are going to parse up DB's minutes as PP and non-PP from 2004, then you need to do the EXACT SAME THING with his minutes from all the years since! otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. kubina and kuba were the only other two in that era that had significant PP minutes.

once that's done i think (i dont know), but it think that you'll find that Boyle's minutes went up b/c our number of PPs went up. all part of bettman's "new NHL" remember?

moreover, in the last 10 years there have been only Nine 20 goal scoring D-men. of the Nine only four where a plus in the plus/minus. and two of those four were a +1 and +5. what does this tell you?

D-men who score/assist a lot generally do it on the PP and therefore their +/- rating will suffer as a result.

OR
by your logic Souray, Gonchar (twice), Aucion, Blake, Leetch and Boyle were all used improperly. and only the coaches of Schnieder in '06 (+33) and Lindstrom in '00 (+19) and Phaneuf in'06 (+5) knew what they were doing? c'mon! you're smarter than that.

bottom line is injuries (or lack there-of) and steady goaltending is more than anything what helped us make the 2004 cup run.
and injuries and inconsistent goaltending is what caused us to finish last in 2008. add Smitty and remove Richards from last year... even w/the injuries to DB and VL4, we make the playoffs as 8 or 7 seed. b/c no long range glove-side softies hitting our net (sorry Homer, it's true).

torts (or even melrose, who i dislike) is only as good a coach as the players he's been given. if you want to lay blame i'd say it has to go to the GM. unless of course his hand were tied from above.

regarding the big four's salaries, what are your options as a GM? you either overpay them or if they go & everyone will say how could u let him be a UFA?

i'm not saying DB is Pronger, Borque or Phaneuf, he's only 5'11 for chri-sake, but he's waaaaaay better than most of what i see on our blue line this year, meszaros included. and SJ is significantly upgraded w/him out there.

[léo]

Disagree, Rod.
If Melrose is LYING, that's libel. How can he expect to get away with that?
You know that I bring up "face" all the time. But after 13 years out've the league, what "face" did Melrose have to begin with? No one is surprised to see him get canned. So why LIE to explain his departure?
As for owners not listening to their players, you must be joking, Rod.
They might not listen to the plumbers but they sure as heck listen to their INVESTMENTS, the ones that bring butts in the stands.
The 500 pound gorilla doesn't care if it's 16 games or a 100. He ain't happy; you're gonna hear about it. Much louder than the plumbers.
P.

[LightningRod]

Leo.
I said in my comments, Melrose's only, and I say most, logical reason is to save face. He's ego. It had to be someone else's fault. I was told it was some of the mean, sneaky, vindictive players who got me fired. If he was doing such a great job, what owner would listen to any player(s) and just fire a guy after 16 games. Doesn't hold any water, especially given the way these 2 owners are involved with this team (their new big money dream toy). This was simply an ego vs ego thing. Melrose wasn't listening to the owners about ice time, the team wasn't playing well, and Barry was given them attitude. They wanted results now, and what did they have to lose given his negative attitude from their perspective.

Big Barry was just deflecting (as it's called in TV land) what happened, on to the players,by stirring the pot so the focus turns away from him. Did a good job to, as we are all still talking about it. I never said or thought he was dumb. He just apparently wasn't going to pay the price of getting back up to speed as a coach in today's NHL. That's all that (his quote) "God was trying to tell" (me) him.

[Boltflasher]

I miss Danny, I wish we could have kept him but he should not have been a #1 or #2 guy...the only time he has been, he was in the - in +/- despite the powerplay points...he is not killing penalties in SJ, they have other Defensemen for the bulk of that...ever heard "its not necessarily the minutes played but when they're played"?...

[Boltflasher]

Boyle's minutes in 2004 were indicative of regular shifts plus powerplay time, not because he was one of top 2 dmen...as I said, he was a #4 (with pretty much same time as top 2 as per Ajax) but add power play time to that. Since you brought it up, yes, Boyle played 39 games last year(1/2 the season) and was -29, playing 27 minutes a games including penalty kill...awful stats worsened by misuse by Torts. Danny should have never been on penalty kill and wasn't in 2004 where he was +23 with more appropriate 22 minutes...

[ajax]

I like to pipe in on the "past" The past for me had awesome memories that were tainted by a joke of a team last year. I absolutely new 110% before the 1st game that with all the SStars and nothing else we were doomed. On to Boyle and his role as savior etc etc. Last year SJ went on an 18-0-2 run before losing their last two games of the year. That's right, 2 ot losses, prevented a 20 game winning streak. They had the 2nd best record in all of hockey and were eliminated by Dallas in 6 tough tough games. I know I watched all 6. Safe to say SJ was a pretty darn good team w/o Boyle. They have tons of money to boot. When we won the cup Danny got the same minutes of all 6 guys. In fact game 7 everyone got between 16-20 minutes. The forwards only played 19 minutes. Funny maybe that is why we won versus the Fantastic Four (Boyle included) getting 26-30 minutes a night while we were losing the past three years. I still find it amazing everytime I read about people reminiscing about last year. We were the worst team in hockey, with 3 Olympians, one of the better offensive Dmen in the game and the worst Defensive---by far-----in the entire NHL. When you miss Danny and Brad, remember Homer and 6 other minimum wage Euro bums came with the Big 4 and their Big 4 salaries. I just checked something, the year we won the cup all 6 Dmen averaged at least 18:30 on ice with Boyle leading the way at 22:45. That stat alone tells you why we were a team versus 4 stars and 8 bums, like last year. Marty St. Louis led the forwards in minutes that year at, get this, 20:34. Those stats more than anything sum up why things had to change from the star system. Do you also know that the first game back for Danny last year he played 10 minutes. If you take away that one game he had more average minutes a night than any player in the entire NHL. All on a losing team with nothing to play for. Things were real real bad last year folks. Stop living in the past. It didn't work. Danny is in a perfect situation and that is awesome for him. He is 2nd in minutes in SJ. If he were here he would be 1st in the entire NHL again, he would probably be a minus 8, and lots of you would have to find another reason to blame this miserable team. I will remind people till my fingers are sore. These owners inherited not the worst team, BY FAR, THE WORST TEAM. Enjoy the Bolts and give it more than 6 minutes!!!!!!!!

hey boltflasher

boyle only played 37 games last year (6 of which he had no busines playing in). by the time he got back, Vinny had already hurt himself and his numbers began to dip.

and BTW from 2002-3 on, he was NEVER the 5th defenseman. check his ice time and see (always 22:28 or more). kubina was the only one of the guys you named that could advance the puck. the rest were all stay at homers. barring injuries, sarich wasn't a top 4 guy until his last year with us. again check the ice time if you dont believe me. Cory has NEVER averaged more than 19:36 in his career!

check THE FACTS next time. just b/c you say it, doesn't make it so.

i think KAS's point is now SJ may be over the hump. with boyle AND blake on the blue line it doesn't all fall on joe thorton to create from up front anymore.

[hockeytalkie]

KAS,

i'm glad ALL of them made it to the life rafts, torts and jay too.

Melrose, the jerry glanville of the NHL
-what a joke-
1992-3 39-35-10 88pts 3rd place

1993-4 27-45-12 66pts 5th place
1994-5 13-21-7 33pts 4th place

2008-9 5-7-4 14pts 3rd place

Career
225 games 84-108-29-4 .447 win percentage
all of his REAL success came in the minor leagues.

i'd said all summer he wouldn't make it to christmas. heck, he barely made it to veterans day!

[Boltflasher]

KAS,...San Jose was a top team without Boyle but failed in the playoffs, again, which is why Wilson was fired. Stop trying to say SJ is #1 because of Boyle. They have a few other players there....

That said, Boyle is perfect there as a #3 or #4 and not out there against the other team's top line. Danny was best here in the same role when Kubina, Sydor, Cullimore and Sarich provided the top D...
Danny was misused by Torts last year against the other team's top lines and hence his awful +/- last year...

[KAS]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand where all the 2nd guessing is going to get us. Let it go !
The owners, I do not trust. AT ALL!

They could stop all this crap, they dont want too..it's publicity for them!
Again they are wrong..its bad publicity and that just insures those of us who revolted and didn't renew season tickets.. were right not too !

HockeyTalkie.. you were right on.. everything said was, the facts ( 11/ 19/08)!
Torts and Feaster tried to make sure that Boyle would stay w/ the team.. they knew beyond a doubt how valuable Dan was to the Bolts.. NOW, so does the Bolts and the Sharks, as well as the rest of the NHL!
Can't say they were wrong .. not any more, can we ? lol Sharks #1 team!
Thank you Boyle and Lukowich! This is one of those times I hate it that am right..
If I were to guess about who .. complained, I'd say.. it was the friends and co-owners .. they are the one's w/ money enough to get their attention. Any one can guess at the "mouth piece", but a locker room and attitude's flying.. they probably didn't need a hidden mic to her the displeasure.

1) Art Williams saved this team from moving to Phoenix.

He saved it from going belly up,bankrupt out of business

4) Feaster was the key for bringing in Khabibulin, aka most of 2004's Cup.

Cliff Flecther is the one who really got the deal done

7) St Louis is falling from prime and still has value. Face it, he's not the same Marty, we all love him but he could land us some huge help on D, but not for too much longer.

How, Do you think anyone is going to take him ,with his play of late? they watch games also

[McGz]

I haven't weighed in on this yet, but Melrose is/was a tool. The owners are tools for hiring him for three years at $2 mil a year because Rob Blake and Gretzky said he was a good coach. Are you kidding me? Where is the due diligence? What happened to hiring a GM, and have HIM hire a coach.

I saw the Melrose interview and he looked awfully jittery the whole time. He never stated players went to the owners. He said it was obvious players went to the owners. IMO, he was just saving face.

Barry took everyone for a ride and is laughing his way to the bank. He will be back on TSN or wherever bad mouthing the Lightning by the end of the week. Good riddance!

[ajax]

Considering how Barry says he will be doing a TV gig soon, doesn't it sadly make just a little sense that Melrose played everyone? HE said I can take another shot at coaching, no one ever accused the man of out working the other coach, it turns out that it wasn't what he thought it was, and poof he is out of here in a second flat with a nice golden umbrella. I get the idea that teflon Barry isn't shedding any tears and is a tad greener for it. Seems like he got his dreams fulfilled without doing any work at all. That is the Melrose we all warned about the day he was hired. Ownership is enthusiastic but sure are leaerning some life lessons along the way. Let's hope they are fast learners. Great attendance compared to many cities I have seen lately. Although the true insider in the group (PD) knows it is monopoly money. I think I will sum up your blog history PD. You are the only "fan" of the Bolts that is unhappy when we win three in a row. About sums it up.

[bud]

For the record, there is absolutely no substantiating evidence that Recchi did anything to undermine Therrien in Pittsburgh. None at all. That rumor was started by a fat talk radio guy who has since been fired and is now a disc jockey. I'd look somewhere else for a scapegoat here.

[léo]

Yes, Rod. That is CERTAINLY the story as it should be. Of COURSE the owners saw what was going on.
So now here's the million-dollar question: Why did Mullet then say that certain SPECIFIC players got him booted?
That's what this is all about, no?
MikeP,
Ok. That's a very interesting point about Boyle. But your statement isn't exactly the same as your first.
You went from "PROMISING to be a contender" to "trying their best to make Tampa a contender". I agree totally with your second. But still, Roberts isn't one of the "Men" in Tamper to open his yapper.
PD,
Look again for the post my friend. You will see that I was minutes ahead.
As for the V4 thing, that's not exactly what I said. Never implied AT ALL that my boy was doggin' it, just presented his results as reason why Mullet felt the need to call him out. My allusion was that since V4 was back from injury, Mullet was WRONG to do so.
P.

[hockeytalkie]

skp,

good post. i expressed a similar sentiment to my brother last week, "work harder", "win the battles", "no more cheating", "keep your feet moving" etc. is nothing but a load of crap without Xs and Os to go along with it.

what are the odds Toc has an ACTUAL plan. (i bet he could tell us -sorry, too easy :-)

[skp]

"I spoke to enough players today who said Melrose's on-ice structure wasn't what it needed to be. The game certainly is not any more about throwing the puck on the ice and let the best players win. It is about giving players detailed instructions. If this happens, you go here. If that happens, you go there. It's systems. There is a lot to be said for that."

exactly what i've been ranting about on this blog...melrose seemed to think the team would coach itself and his job was to talk to the media after games about who he yelled at.

[LightningRod]

For all of the speculation that players went to the owners to get rid of Melrose, I say all you have to do is pay attention to the simple facts stated by both sides, and ignore the excuses and posturing that comes with this type of situation. There are some simple facts that explain what basically went on.

1. The owners didn't need anyone coming to them and saying Melrose wasn't working out. Helll, if you watched one or more games, you could see that something was wrong. I know many don't like the new owners; but let's be fair they both have played pro-hockey and know the game. If an 11 yr. old, who sits next to me at the games and is in his 2nd yr. of playing, says it looks like pond hockey at times, you can bet the owner's know it to. I don't think it was an accident that Lawton went on the last road trip "to evaluate players"; and a few days after the team returns to Tampa Melrose gets the boot.

2. I don't think many would question that these owners want a competitive & winning team, ASAP. They both have publicly stated that they knew they would make mistakes in trying to change this team, as quickly as they did, which would logically include a coach they really didn't know.

3. I think the key is what Melrose said himself, that he and the owners were "continuously" butting heads over the ice time of several players, especially Stamkos. If the owners were paying attention to players ice times each game, why wouldn't anyone think they weren't paying close attention to what was going on at practice, in the locker room, and during games.

The end result is that neither of these owners needed any players coming to them and telling them what was going on at practices, in the locker room, and at games. If we could see it, I think it's a safe bet that they knew Melrose wasn't working out. END OF STORY. All the rest is just BS, to cover someone's EGO.

Just ask yourself this, is Melrose the kind of guy that would say this "Well guys I gave it my best and it just didn't work out. The game has moved past me." Just ask yourself that 1 thing.

[hockeytalkie]

Torts wanted to jump ship when he saw the writing on the wall with Boyle. Torts and Feaster had to fight to keep them from dumping him at the deadline. he KNEW they would dump 22 before season started and Kuba as well.

when torts spoke to TSN about OK everyone said it was "sour grapes" and nothing else. but you know what? he was absolutely right.

"hellava deal for OTT" -john tortarella regarding: kuba, picard and a #1 for Meszaros. i said it before and i'll say it again...

AZZ-CLOWNS!!!!

[hockeytalkie]

Hey Jim- NJ

get your facts straight

1)Phoenix already had a team for 3 years before art williams got here. art kept bolts from going to LV or Hamilton, ONT.

2) your one goal stat is really quite naive. when you get outshot 40-20 most nights, its the goalie and HIM ALONE that is keeping it close. but that doesn't mean you're competitive. D sucks right now and that is the fault of management. same thing was true when khabibulan first got here.

3)speaking of which it was Rick Dudley who got Khabibulan here not Feaster. Adreychuk as well. a fact Jay and Torts both acknowledge. Dudley got most of the 2004 gang here. but b/c he was so impatient to win, many of them would NOT have stayed long enough to develop the chemistry they did. he was trying to move VL4 before he was canned.

4) Feaster's big moves were making Vinny stay and LEARN inspite of himself. the Feds draft day deal. picking up Sydor for nothing, getting Stillman for half price trade in summer of 2003, while allowing prospal to go to Ducks for too big of a contract.

late 2002-3 deal for john grahme from boston was a good deal to. -(16 wins as a b/up in 03-04)

5)if owners care so much about team, why would they trade away one of the top 4 puck moving defensemen in the league (and a 20 goal scorer to boot) for a headcase project like carle? -you can tell who conventional wisdom thinks wins in a trade by the headline. headline on that day on NHL.com read "SHARKS ACQUIRE DAN BOYLE FROM BOLTS"

6) WE AREN'T TURNING ON THE TEAM. it's these Azz-Clown Owners! OK Hockey has NOT BROUGHT ANYTHING TO TB but a movie premiere and a bunch of fossils for OK's autograph collection, lately they've been trying to land Sundin. i love hockey and i will always stay true to TBL but these guys have turned us back into an expansion team! what's next? a smudged fax offer sheet? are you a stud t-shirts? missing payroll?

expansion teams win 22 games and have another 10 or so close. last year we won 31 and had another 10 that were close. do you see the difference? THE ONLY THING we truly have NEEDED in the last 4 years is a GOALIE! Mike Smith, Jokkenin, Halpurn and Kolzig on last year's team (minus Richards) makes the playoffs easily. even with an Boyle only playing 30 games. we were a top 10 PP team last year. it wasn't scoring that was the problem, it was out-scoring!

think about how many times Homer gave up those softies from long range, glove side, top shelf.

oh, well. it could be worse. Doug McClean was originally part of the ownership group. he'd be coaching them right now after they dumped the mullet. :-)

[pd]

i'll shed one for you ajax
delusion and man crush rule
lol

[Hockey Chic]

Susi,

I am not sure how to tell you this but walking the concourse in the club level does not constitute rubbing elbows with the regular peeps.

I would love to have Oren not Owen join us in the 309 section and hell I will even throw in a beer. Now that is what I would call rubbing elbows..

See ya at the game.

Go Bolts!!

[Susi]

Glad you are back!
Anyhow, I agree...lets put this to rest and move on BUT
does anyone remember how Melrose disliked TBL...esp Vinny. Basically said we dont belong in the Stanley Cup series (when we won it)....it was always obvious he had no use for us....
anyway, its over, he is gone, good luck Tock, hope the new owners (Owen only, Lawton should get the boot ASAP and Barrie is an egomaniacal loser) get it together........Owen is the only owner that is generally in his box watching.....he walks the concourse (on club level) and talks to anyone. A real down to earth guy......nice change

[deanhall]

Melrose is a better broadcaster than coach. Having said that, he sucks at both. Just that he's much worse as a 21st century NHL head coach

[ajax]

PD, simply you are dramatizing to be neg, as usual. Torts came in for his interview and suggested someone else could do a better job, then he recanted but Jay, AS ANY GM WOULD HAVE, had heard the key phrase. Torts threw in the towel. Didn't want to do the work to turn it around. I am sure Feaster couldn't keep that out of his mind no matter how fast Torts back peddled. I always think of Ruff in Buffalo and how he somehow always makes it work no matter what management does to the roster(no money in Buffalo) then I think of the zillion temper tandrums of Tortorella. Men show their character most, when the chips are down. Torts was crystal clear on how he really is. Then you write Koules had a choice of either Vinny or Torts. How do you possibly connect those dots. It wasn't even the same time frame, the same dialogue, it is just your conspiracy theory gone wild. The doom and gloom of PD's everyday life. I think it is 110% transparent to everyone from here to Toronto that the team gave up on Torts, a total meltdown the last 20 games of last year. No one shed a tear....but you.

Great intensity of action last night, a franchise-record 52 shots on goal--NOT AGAINST! Amazing, furious flurry of action right at the end, I thought sure Marty was going to end it. Did I mention shootouts suck? Sure would have been nice to see the teams settle that one with some more high-tempo battling. Maybe open up the ice 3-on-3 or something.

Jim in NJ - did OK till ya went off the rails there at # 6 & 7. Let's appreciate all who had a hand in bringin' us the Cup...EXCEPT Vinny and Marty. Plenty of love for Feaster, giving him the credit for having the vision and courage to bring in Khabibulin after two years out of hockey, when even casual fans like me know it was RICK DUDLEY who did it. But zippo for two of the top guys. Let's strip Vinny of the C again, let's dump Marty..."This patient has eight gangrenous fingers, doctor--quick, let's amputate the other two!"

[Tony]

"Scouting,We're always Scouting" No wonder he couldn't coach he was too busy scouting...Back to TV mullet...

[Don in St. Pete]

Nice to see 3 of the Bolts score their 1st goals of the season. Especially Vrbata and Artyukhin who we need to get on the board more if we expect to turn this around. Recchi and Jokinen on the ice for 2 more goals again.....I'm not sure we can afford to keep these 2 together as they seem to be a defensive liability. Nice to see the high energy attack, causing the Pansies to ice the puck on numerous occasions. Our d still seems a little tentative when they gain control in our zone. Let's hope we see the same style and energy against the Preds on friday. Go to the net, attack, force them to make mistakes. GO BOLTS!

[Jim- NJ]

1) Art Williams saved this team from moving to Phoenix.

2) Davidson got us to win A STANLEY CUP

3) How many games this year were lost by more than 1 goal? We're still extremely competitive!

4) Feaster was the key for bringing in Khabibulin, aka most of 2004's Cup.

5) The owners care a lot about this team and they are doing the right things with their circumstances. And things will always get better.

6) Vinny needs to give up the C. A captain should be by de facto, not cus the owners and fans want it. He's the best player but he's not a true leader and he's proved that.

7) St Louis is falling from prime and still has value. Face it, he's not the same Marty, we all love him but he could land us some huge help on D, but not for too much longer.

8) Boyle went through 2 surgeries on his and anyone with a surgery will know you cannot ever be 100% again. It was a safe gamble to let Boyle go, as much as it sucked. At least we got Emminger.

Amazing how people are so quick to turn and bastardize those who brought more success than anyone could've imagined for a team from Tampa, Florida.

[shock therapy]

Well compared to the last months of drama, I for one enjoyed the effort last night. Lots of positives to take home.

I do heed the warnings we got of Malik - I watched him over and over from my second row seat behind the goal and I was wondering if he has a clue what to do out there. We gave up PP goals, but if watch his positioning on the ice, he circles, he hits nobody, he doesnt fight for pucks.

All in all, great comeback, great effort, great team play, I think there is a glimmer of hope that maybe, maybe, even after just one performance, we could build from this game.

we MUST score on shootout breakaways!

[Hockey Chic]

Morning everyone,

I agree with coach Bill the late games are killing me and the shootouts well lets just say it is a point fellas and let it go at that.

I guess Tocchet is playing a different kind of game than than the Mullet and all I gotta say is woo hoo. I am happy to see stammer get some ice time and way to play with the Big Guys.

I still do not see enuff forechecking to make me happy but it is getting there. Excellent seats last night thanks to the Boss.

Got to see the game with my other team mate so it made it that much more fun. Keep playing in your face hockey and we will get this ship turned around. Way to hustle and way to get us back in the game.

Coach not sure how I keep getting on the tron but if it gets people rooting for the team lets do it.

By the way the peeps in 100's section need to wake up and scream their heads off. I could hear my peeps in 309 way to go baby..

Go Bolts see ya on Friday... Lets keep the MO rolling!!!

[The Voice of the Turtle]

I believe that Melrose's assertion that he chooses not to coach again will discourage teams from making any further offers owing to...er...their profound respect for his wishes.

Now let's see. So far Barry has blamed his players, the management, and the owners for unfair treatment in connection with meddling and, ultimately, his discharge. Certainly, he should find a little room for the fans, the media, Leo, and the CIA/FBI conspiracy in his next round of finger pointing.

What a man child this self-deluding fellow is!

[coach bill]

Whew! These 2 hr rides are killing me. But what a game! I thought we really played alot better tonight than any other game this season. The D was trying to hold the neutral zone and was having alot of luck (Esp. Malik and Mez) Ranger was aggressive and wasn't afraid to move the puck up. His partner ( Lundin) has a heart of a lion ( unfortunately his body is that of a much smaller critter). He gets bounced around too easily. The Fla goals were results of us in the box,although I couldn't see the calls at all. The offensive output was tremendous ( 52 SOG). Our tying goal came as a result of Recchi getting in their face so much they gave him so much attention that we blew by them. Great job,Rec. R2 went up to the top line with V4 & MSL. He still looks a bit timid. I thought it was a great game. rdc, we missed you ( me.Chic,Flasher and Tampa Wine Guy were hoping to meet you). We're on for a happy hour at Shots on Dec 18 (Colorado)6-7:30. I'll post more later and have Damian announce it. Don't ever believe anything "I" say until DC lists it. Hockey Chic- How did you get on the jumbotron again? You looked good.