Lundin clears waivers, and other matters

Defenseman Mike Lundin cleared waivers at noon today, meaning he will be assigned to AHL Norfolk. Coach Rick Tocchet spoke about Lundin needing to be more aggressive on the puck. And for those wondering, Lundin's low AHL salary precludes him from having to clear recall waivers if Tampa Bay wants him back.

Center Chris Gratton also reported to the Norfolk, though he is not expected to play until next week while he gets back in game shape. He had been suffering from a lower body injury that was either an ankle or knee problem. Or as Tocchet called it, a "whatever."

Lots of other little newsy things going on as well: Tocchet said center Jeff Halpern (knee) likely will play either Wednesday with Norfolk or Thursday against the Avalanche with the Lightning. Halpern had indicated he would have liked to get a game in with Norfolk. But other saying he is "excited, nervous," to play, he said he will do whatever the team wants him to do. ... Tocchet said if tonight was Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final, left wing Ryan Malone (upper body) could play. But with a four-day break between games beginning Sunday, one more night off will help Malone to "lick this injury so when he gets in, he's in for good. We can't have him going in and out of the lineup." ... The Lightning has been rotating defenseman Marek Malik on the point of a struggling power play. Tocchet said he likes Malik's passing ability there, but the power play needs more help than that. It is 0-for-21 in its past five games. ... Center Jussi Jokinen has not scored in 13 games and has just two assists. Jokinen said his role has changed somewhat recently to a more defensive posture. But Tocchet said Jokinen "is one of the guys struggling right now, and to be honest with you, I'm not happy with his play." Tocchet said Jokinen is not hunting pucks and is tentative with the puck in the offensive zone. "We need him to play well," Tocchet said. ... Defenseman Andrej Meszaros, who tonight makes his first visit to Scotiabank Place after three years with the Senators, said it is killing him that he hasn't yet scored a goal. Tocchet said he advised Meszaros to take a little bit off his booming slap shot to help him better hit the net. "Sometimes it doesn't have to be  a hard slap shot, just a little wrister," Meszaros said. "I'll just keep trying and shooting. Hopefully, once I get the first one, they'll keep going in." ... Is Meszaros worried about the reception he will get? "I'm trying not to think about it," he said. "It should be an exciting game. I'm looking forward to that."

And it is not as if we really expected it to happen given the Lightning's terrible start, but just to put a capper on the Mats Sundin thing, Sundin's agent J.P. Barry said his client has narrowed his choices to four or five teams, none of which are lower than sixth in either conference. Missed it by that much.

Comments

[Patrick]

PD,

You are the one who made the claim you have been right about everything, so the burden of proof is on you to support your claim.

[PD]

Brittany hope you are right for your sake.

If I post so much Patrick then you can easily tell me where I have gone off the tracks.

[Brittany]

We aren't going anywhere. PD, I know you are just licking your chops for that second team in Toronto, but you need to look someplace else buddy. The Lightning have been one of the better franchises in attendance down here in the south. Not to mention that Florida, and especially Tampa have been hit among the hardest in the country during this economic nose dive, yet we still pull more people than New Jersey, Boston, Colorado (places where it actually snows!). And really, to be hoping that a team gets moved is just mean. The fans of those teams would be heartbroken. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[Boltflasher]

I was joking about those guys...nobody wants 'em...

[Patrick]

PD,

You've gotten everything right? List everything you've gotten right. Since you post 10-15 times a day on this blog alone, it should be a very long list.

Flasher,

You don't really want anything PD has to sell do you? Kaberle or a washed up Sundin? Kaberle is -9 on the leaves and they are only not-quite-as-bad as the bolts. Scary to think what it would be given our offense thus far.

I think our offense and PP is going to improve once Malone gets back. PD - someone mentioned Malone, this is your chance to repeat for the 50th time so far that the bolts overpaid him by an insane 500 k!

[PD]

Sarasota Bill, different financial times abound.

[PD]

Flasher you are right about a 2nd team in Ontario, actually a second team in Toronto sharing a 40,000 state of the art arena that the Leafs will get free.

Who knows who gets there 1st, Nashville, Tbay or Phoenix/

[Sarasota Bill]

Of course another team is wanted in Ontario. Or wherever, north of the border. They may get one some day. Probably soon, but not the Lightning.

For anyone to think this team is moving anytime soon, look no further than Nashville. Look no further than Blackberry Boy. A deal was made. Blackberry Boy made a promise not to move the team. Next thing you know, this moron is selling tickets to the Hamilton Predators. What a friggin genius!!

Was it just me or did anyone else see Bettman swoop in and squash the deal in a heartbeat?

Right or wrong, Bettman is on a mission. His wet dream is to grow the NHL in the US. For all of you who think this team is moving anytime soon, you're insane. The owner, whomever he might be, has no control over it. If they didn't allow Nashville to move and won't consider Phoenix or the Panthers as relocation candidates, the Bolts will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

End of discussion!

[PD]

Boltflasher thats Tampa's problem..crap player abound. No one would take any of those guys.

[PD]

Heh Patrick do I want it to blow back on the Cowboys , yup

When I get one right? Patrick I have had everything right you just aren't paying attention.

Would I support a real owner in TBay absolutley, will that happen, not a chance.

[PD]

Well since those numbers came out of recent NHL Board of Governors meeting and are widely publicizied lets just say I didn't pull them out of a coloring book Ajax.

Leafs would trade Kaberle for a #1 pick and will and its a win win for both sides.
Leafs have 5 of the top 50 rookies playing right now, can you possibly see if Burke gets 3 picks in this years top 10 to add to that mix it might be a good thing.He already has a pile of good young defencemen.
Do you see if Leafs chop another 4.5 off their cap its a good thing? JUst askin Ajax cuz I'm frankly afraid of the answer.

Yes to answer your question about the other teams with a number of high contracts , they will have to jettison some of them at bargain basement prices. More great opps for teams with cap space.

Teams will be dumping very good players and adding in picks to take them.
Pitt will have to Jettison Stall
Rangers will have to dump Gomez or Drury

You think the NHLPA is going to give dollars back? They will scrap the cap before that happens.

[Boltflasher]

Guys, PD and other Ontarians want a second team there and some of them have their sites set on the Bolts so yes, they want the team to move.

[Boltflasher]

maybe Gratton and Lundin as well...

[Boltflasher]

We'll give you Vrbata, Krajicek, Roberts, Craig, and Jokinen for Kaberle...

[Patrick]

Leo,

Now you are advocating that we boycott the owners as well? So that we get new owners? Yeah and there's no risk of the team being relocated when the team is sold. You're starting to sound like PD as well.

Do you wish the team would be relocated to Canada?

[Patrick]

"Yeah actually Patrick, I spend a lot of time in Sarasota and was a huge fan of Torts and what they put together.
Bloggered here for over two years.

I saw Len Barrie as a con man from day one and have everyright to my say here.

What gives you the right to say not?"

PD,

You've openly admitted you are rooting for the owners to fail. The owners won't fail unless the team fails, so you ARE rooting against our team on a blog devoted to it. And you do so by posting your negative "predictions" based on speculation that stretch as far as the year 2010. And when you get one right, instead of being sad about being right as a true fan would, you proudly boast about it repeatedly. You seem intent on making what's been bad for the fans worse by making sure no negative stone is left unturned. You seem to enjoy it.

Can you honestly tell the people reading this blog you don't want the team to be relocated to Canada?

If you don't want the franchise to succeed, you don't really have any business posting here. Post on whatever team you want to succeed. Relishing the failures of others, as I said before, is just a sad statement about yourself.

[ajax]

Kaberle is one of the best values in the league at 4.5 for an All Star puck moving defenceman..Heloo Ajax, the line forms to the right when Burke puts him up for grabs. PD if he is such a value why would they get rid of him?? One or the other, but not both. I have read a zillion Toronto blogs wanting them to dump both Dmen. A zillion. The only differrence being I don't poison the Toronto blog. Common sense would dictate that. PD explain this to all of us. Toronto with more money than God makes no effort to make playoffs. What is the sinister truth behind that PD. They could actually go out and easily sign two more 5 million dollar players but sit on their butts. Why PD?? Maybe something you don't know??? Maybe Canada teams are clutching their checkbooks with the economic turn down.??
You pull an article off the internet and wah lah it is Gospel only cauase it is what you want to support your hate Vinny campaign with. I have read articles that suggest the players union will have to concede 10% or more in the next few years. Would that change your thinking just a tad PD?? State all the facts not just your hate Lightning, Please go out of business bs. Now would Malkan,Heatley, Spezza, Drury, Gomez etc etc would all of those 7-8-9 million dollar contracts be anchors too?? or just VL4?? Would Ottawa file Bankruptcy with potentially 50% of their payroll tied up with just three guys?? How about Pittsburgh with two 9 million dollar contract?? Do they ask for 125.00 per seat or do they have serious financial troubles. OR IS IT JUST TAMPA PD???
And Tampa gives away 2500 tickets and only 9000 really pay?? Do you dream this stuff up?? Do other teams give away cheap tickets??? OF COURSE THEY DO. Just cause you say it twice a week for two years ain't ever going to mean intelligent people buy your bs PD.

[PD]

Ajax if you Google 2010 NHL salary cap, voila.

heres one of many
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/pro-hockey/279631-nhl-cap-could-drop-9-million-2010-2011-a.html

Teams that are sitting pretty are the ones with lots of cap space.

[PD]

Ajax please don't equate truth with hate, makes you look foolish.

Heard of the recession Ajax? Mike P has and the numbers he has quoted could be conservative. I said 2010 Ajax

If the cap is down even 5 million then Vinny's salary is the leagues anvil..sorry buddy , you'd be wrong again.No one would touch that contract , its a franchise killer.

Kaberle is one of the best values in the league at 4.5 for an All Star puck moving defenceman..Heloo Ajax, the line forms to the right when Burke puts him up for grabs.

On attendence you are aware that Tampa gives away 2500 tickets a game and sitting in 19th they have a lower revenue base than quite a few below them.

They are losing millions a month and have the highest debt load in the league. Just do the math instead of calling me names.

[ajax]

Our attendance is fine considering all that is going on in the world. New Jersey is below us, Boston is the beast of the East with worse attendance. Anaheim has 6 million people and averages 200 more, with a payroll 8 million higher than we do. These our tough times, ALERT, Pittsburgh is tearing it up and is DOWN from last year. Must be headed towards Bankruptcy?? ANd their actual payroll is 6 million more than ours. OH OH, doom and gloom for Pittsburgh. And help me out here, when you say we are 19th, doesn't that mean 11 other teams are below us?? I wonder if they are being repossessed like we are??

[leo]

Last year, at exactly the same time, I remember we were all talking about this.
Were you not 5th in attendance at the time?
P.

[mike p]

P.S. leo, fans HAVE been skipping games. For a team that's been in the top 10 attendance for 3 years solid now. To fall from 8th to 19th should send a pretty big message to the owners. (If you recall, we were in last place last year too and not doing much better in the standings at this point of the year). However, the fact that the team is still 19th on the attendance list and not dead last again proves my point that there is little to worry about financially with the team. Especially in the long run.

[mike p]

Also, in terms of the teams financial situation, something interesting to note...Tampa Bay has quickly become one of the most talked about teams in the NHL. I have never seen them get as much media coverage in Canada EVER (in terms of games and just being talked about by TSN, CBC, etc.) And, as leo and PD will be quick to point out. Hockey LIVES north of the border. So, call me naive, but all in all, I am not too concerned for the financial well being of the team. They have a good fan-base and, with a little retooling, will have a team that will put up W's and be competitive again. It won't be long before the Forum is packed again.

[leo]

I don't know about Joe Tampa, Harry, but you sure sound like Joe Hockey to me.
Winning is everything in hockey. Especially in hockey. Because in hockey, it's Winning that builds character, not losing. That's the way We see it anyway.
We listen to other teams say "Our goal is to make the playoffs." Stuff like that makes Us shake Our heads in contempt.
Up north, We've only ever had ONE goal. Just one, single, solitary goal. It's the same all the time:
The Stanley Cup and another one the following year.
That's the ONLY thing We want.
Anything less is absolute failure. Anything less is total surrender. Anything less and you may as well lie down and take a long nap.
Listen, my Club was run by a clown too. I can feel your pain. But I can assure you that while it looks bad now, the NHL CANNOT allow the loss of a franchise.
I'm not talking "relocation"; I'm talkin' "loss". If you follow Harold's lead and SKIP GAMES, it will have a DIRECT IMPACT on the future of your particular "clowns",i.e. "cowboys".
That's what We did. And it worked beautifully.
"What, Leo?! Habfans NEVER skip games!! You've shown your 'ignorance' again!"
Nope. That's EXACTLY what We did. Look it up. We want to Win. And We'll do whatever it takes to Win. So We skipped games. Year five. Look where we are now.
You can get your cowboys canned if you really want to. You can send'em a message which they won't be able to ignore.
NHL'll step in if they do.
P.

[mike p]

ajax, I agree with you that teams would not be too concerned with Vinny's contract. As it is not as monstrous as PD is making it seem. However, I also read that by 2010-2011 the cap could fall as much as 4-8 million. However, that is speculation and nothing is certain yet. So all PD is doing at this point is spreading his fear mongering and negativity and wasting everyone's time with pointless arguments.

[ajax]

PD you are back (lucky us) and once again talking your nonsense. They could trade Vinny in one second flat, only you and your hate for Vinny could try to spin that crap. Dallas took on Richards at 7.8 to find a spark. Dallas is going to eat about 4 million just to get rid of Avery. Some team is going to throw 6-7 million at 39 yr old Sundin to win the cup. Lots of rich owners out there PD and lots of takers for a guy with 52 goals on his resume. You are the champion of looking for miniscule facts to spin your crapola. You love Torts, but no one else does. you loved Richards and the huge mistake we made. Richards has 21 points this morning and is -7. Two perfect examples of how you hate isn't really facts, it is just trying to find something/anything to justify your constant carping. Who isn't tired of your constant, "I know what everyone is thinking crapola" You not only know every trade that was wrong the last three years, you know every conversation and every thought process. Vinny is a back stabber, another of your favorite "insites". Everything I have ever read about the guy is that he is a "class act" One of those rare guys who takes the responsibility of being an athlete very serious. Yet he is the reason for two coaches getting fired. He scored 52 goals and we should of traded him according to you last year. He is playing on the worst team in hockey and is a plus 2 (by the way he would be plus 7, if not for the 5 empty net goals) When is your next vacation, can I send you a check to extend it a couple of weeks?? Why don't you chime in on the Brad Richards trade PD?? See how you can spin that awesome move. How about chiming in on Kubina and Kaberle, 9 million of dead Dmen in Toronto that they can't possibly move. Take a look at Drury and Gomez, and their 7 million dollar contracts and then try to convince the blog that know one would want Vinny. Once again your biased doesn't give us any insite PD, it just gives us insite to the mad mind of you. Before I forget. The cap will go down 5-6 million?? Where do you get your junk?? Never heard that number even once. I saw two interviews and one guy said it probably will stay the same, the other guy felt in might go down 1-2 million. Attendance is up. Oh I forgot they are all freebies and Koules is going to flush 100 Million down the toilet. Where do you get your knowledge?? Coloring Books?? Must of been the same guy who told you the the NHL was dependant on the strong Canadian financial picture, but the reality of that "lie" was 50% of the strong Canadian dollar. Now it has changed and Canada is worried again. Your spin is always one that only you believe. Take the cruise to nowhere take time!!!!!

[Harold]

What exactly qualifies as Joe Tampa?
Im a transplant from the North (Pittsburgh) so I cant be Joe Tampa. But I dont know many True Floridians

As far as The comments on this season. Yea it sucks but at least we can go see Hockey. I have to admit I havnt used many of my tickets and its getting harder to give them away. I think that winning does make a difference. Its hard to watch the guys stinking the ice up night after night. I couldn't make it thru the game last night I think I switched to the History channel. I dont post here often but i read most of them and I think most people know that Crap runs downhill. The Crap is in the Owners box. When People are successful in somthing and make a buch of money they start fooling themselves that they can be good at anything they want to do. The Okey Dokey Boys are doing that. If they were half as smart as they think they are they would hire somebody to run the team and Stay in the box out of the way and sip Martini's with debutants and groovy Hollywood types.
There is no turn around. there is only suffering this season. Hopefully they get smart. But I doubt it. Anybody that thinks "Saw 5" is a good idea isnt smart enough to evaluate their own choices.

[PD]

Yeah actually Patrick, I spend a lot of time in Sarasota and was a huge fan of Torts and what they put together.
Bloggered here for over two years.

I saw Len Barrie as a con man from day one and have everyright to my say here.

What gives you the right to say not?

[Patrick]

PD,

Did I say something about your behavior that isn't true?

You complaining about someone else's class is a hoot. You live to kick the lightning, their fans and organization while we are down.

[Patrick]

Hockey,

Joe Tampa reads the local sports page. Over Vinny's career, which lightning player has been mentioned in the sports page more than any other - with all his early draft hype, with his much publicized problems with Torts, Dudley getting fired over trying to trade him, he's been in the local news plenty of times. Plus on billboards and on the side of the Forum itself. Like other fans said, he's the face of the franchise.

Of course we are nothing like even Hockeytown in Detroit, let alone Canadian cities. But I guarantee you more people know him here than either the canadians would give credit for. They probably think we sit on hay bales for seats at the games.

[PD]

Boom there gors Patrick in a pile of dust with the personal insults..
you are one classy guy
See Hockey Talkie and tell him

[Patrick]

PD,

As far as getting where you are coming from, it will be never. I have no idea why you post religously on an obscure newspaper forum for a team you hate. That's just sad.

I'd take a bet with you for any amount of money that more than "Only a few 1000 would have had a clue who the car salesman or Vinny even was." Back up your talk for once. Just extremely biased hate as usual from you.

[hockeytalkie]

actually patrick, i've got to agree with leo on this one.

the hockey fans in tampa all knew vinny from the start. but joe tampa? no way. before the 03 an 04 playoffs i couldn't give my seats away on nights i couldn't go. but my phone didnt stop ringing in may of 2004. joe tampa is indeed a fair-weather fan (as are most fans) and sadly it's football first around here. but hey welcome to the south. wins is what will bring them back. joe tampa heard the michael jordan comment of course but never saw the highlights on sportscenter. in fact i remember VL4 one time talking about how nice it was to go out to dinner and NOT get mobbed. as opposed to when he was back home. you think mike allstot was ever allowed to eat in peace? also if the rays go in the tank next season, do you think they'll get 15,000 a night? sadly we're surrounded by fair-weather fans.

see leo, i prefer not to sugar coat anything.

[PD]

Patrick Joe Tampa doesn't even know what hockey is. Only a few 1000 would have had a clue who the car salesman or Vinny even was.

Winning brings in the bandwagoners and Leo is dead right.

[PD]

No Patrick, pathetic is taking 3 months to get it. We didnt.

You and Ajax still haven't.

[Patrick]

Leo,

You are an @ssclown and your canadian ignorance is on display again. Joe Tampa has known about Vinny since he was proclaimed on draft day to be the next "Michael Jordan" by the car salesman owner.

[Patrick]

You guys are pathetic lining up to say "I told you so" first.

[PD]

Well Brittany agree on not taking away the C because it would be the 2nd time that would have he been stripped of it.

That would be a big personal knock and PR nightmare.

No team in their right mind would take on his lfetime contract now with the cap collapsing by 5-6 mill in 2010.
At that point he will be insanely/critically overpaid.

No need to lose sleep over it, they should have done it two years ago.
Will never happen now.

[leo]

Can't take the C away, that's for sure.
P.

[Brittany]

I know what you mean Leo, and I agree with you. Victory makes everything ok. What I am saying is that victory takes time. Time that I don't think we would have if we got rid of Vinny (and Marty would go too if Vinny got shipped off, lets be honest). Fans would be angry, and we wouldn't be able to compete for a couple of years. You see how crappy the showing of fans is in Atlanta, I bet we would give them a run for their money. Just ask the Rays how many people went to their games when they stunk up the joint. People don't like OK already for shipping Brad and Dan off, you think they would support the team if they sent Vinny and Marty off next? I don't care if we got OV and Sid the Kid back, people would be mad. Vinny isn't just the Lightning, he means a lot to the community as well ($3 mil to All Children's Hospital's cancer center named in his honor). Heck, people are still mad we traded Brad and look what we got in return. We got ourselves a #1 goalie for a player that was making way more than he was worth. With the economy in the crapper and the NHL one of the smaller sports leagues, we don't have the luxury of not having fans come to the games. We need to find a way to make this work with Vinny still here and I don't think that is out of the question.

And PD, you really think they would have shut him down? You mean, like they shut him down at the end of the year last year when we weren't making the playoffs? You mean, like they prevented him from getting hurt in the first place by letting him have his wrist surgery? Why would they shut him down now? If Vinny wants to play, they aren't going to be able to stop him. As long as they tell him it won't get worse, he will be out there. And how do you know Vinny isn't doing his job as being the go between for the management and the players? None of us are in there and I think placing the blame on one player, who I think is obviously no where near 100% is a bit unfair.

And would taking the 'C' away from Vinny do any good? Would we just be called a circus again for making a needless change? Would we seriously tick off our franchise player? Would the Vinny to Montreal rumors turn up? Is that what we need right now? We need stability. Taking the 'C' away is the opposite of that and really, I think, a needless thing to do. If giving the 'C' to someone else would suddenly make everyone start winning again, then there is something seriously wrong with that group of guys in there...

[PD]

No Herb and in that respect you go to the front of the line.

[PD]

Brittany actually being captain is rather important in the room, the C is the liason between management and the room. Its a position of respect.

Vinny got however as a position of marketing spin much as Stamkos was kept up in ther Nhl because of the Seen Stamkos marketing campaign and again similar to how melrose got the job as coach because of perceived marketing spin.

The team is run by clueless drama queen owners.They don't compute

I can't buy the Vinny is hurt thing, the team has zero chance of making the playoffs, they would have shut him down in a second and collect the insurance $$ rather than paying him the 10's of millions. Also if he was hurt there would be a huge risk of making any injury worse or even chronic.

All he is missing is torts kicking his a** everyday.

[Herb]

PD.....do you have Lightning full season tickets? Are you a 4 year full season ticket holder? Do you own any Lightning sweaters, jerseys, t-shirts, and other team items? Are the Bolts your favorite and only team that you are a fan of? I don't think so, therefor what your opinion of this team does not count in this instance. No disrespect intended, but I meant as far as the Bolts are concerned, I am the first real Lightning fan to give up on this season and say they are not a good or even decent team.

[leo]

Brittany,
I don't disagree with you on keeping V4 in TB cuz he's the face of the franchise. That part's fine.
But it's not STARS who fill the arena.
It's Victory.
Before 2004, Joe Tampa had NO idea who Vinny was.
It's the STANLEY CUP that filled the St-Pete's Forum.
Unless I'm mistaken, of course.
If you trade V4 for a coupla players'll get you to the Show in a few years time, you'll whistle the beauty of the deal and forget all about V4's.
As would anybody. Victory is the most important thing in hockey, not how pretty someone looks in pink.
P.

[Boltflasher]

I agree Brittany that wearing the "C" should not make that much difference but it does, especially with this group of underachievers...

But mainly, it would take some heat off Vinny and maybe help to not make that stick be gripped so tightly and less of a focus of the "trade him" calls...

[Brittany]

Sorry about the novel I wrote. Guess I'm the odd "man" (or gal) out so to speak. I don't think any of this is really Vinny's fault...

Well Coach Bill, I'll bite. I think the thing that is hurting Vinny is his shoulder/wrist (he never did get the surgery on that one like he was supposed to). I don't think its a lack of trying or caring, I think he is just really hurting. You don't see him hitting anyone, you don't see him being a big physical presence like we know he can be and I think this is because his shoulder is worse off than he will let on (or maybe psychologically he is worried it will get hurt again, who knows?). I agree with you that he isn't the in your face, yell at teammates kind of guy but he is more of a lead by example. Now I know you guys are thinking "well what the heck, he hasn't been leading by any example!" but I think he has. I think everyone in that locker room knows that he is hurt (I think he is anywhere from 75-85% healed) but he still goes out there and plays. When the best player on the team is hurt, but is out there still trying, I think that says a lot. Of course, I think he is still hurting pretty bad, he just won't use it as an excuse or take any time off. The game against Buffalo he got hooked and they pulled his arm back and afterward you could see him trying to move his shoulder around and wincing. I don't think he was ready for the games in Prague either, but there was no way anyone was going to keep him off the ice. I think that shows leadership.

Now about the 'C', I think that the 'C' is more for the fans enjoyment than anything else. We all know most fans wanted Vinny to have the 'C' to show that this is his team (and in almost every way, I think we can agree this is his team). The guy with the 'C' gets to yell at the refs for being dumb but really that is about it. It isn't like you aren't allowed to talk in the locker room if you don't have a letter on your chest. Whether or not you have a 'C', an 'A' or nothing on sweater, you can be a leader. Take Smitty for example, I think it is safe to say he is a leader of this team from all of the reports we have read, but he doesn't have anything on his sweater (of course he can't, but still). I think if you are a natural leader it will show through no matter what. The guy with the 'C' just has to take all of the heat when the team isn't playing very well (see everyone blaming Vinny right now). I don't think the 'C' really adds that much pressure on him or he even thinks about it. I know we haven't seen too many quotes/interviews with him after games and I think that is because as soon as the game is over, he is getting treatment on his shoulder (of course, this is just speculation on my part, but I think it is a safe bet). Also, when there are rules about who can and can't wear letters on their sweaters, I think it shows just how little affect it has in the dressing room. If they mattered all that much, Smitty would be wearing a letter on his sweater too. I also think that stripping him of it would be a big mistake. I think when it was taken away before, it really hurt him. To take it away again would just be a slap in the face. And how do we know that he isn't a good leader in the locker room? We can all make our own assumptions, but none of us are in there and able to tell if he is or isn't the problem. Until someone actually calls him out for not doing his part, I don't think we should. We haven't seen Toc call him out yet and I think that is because he is hurt and doing his best out there.

On trading Vinny, I think that would be the worst thing this franchise could do right now. You think the Forum is empty right now, imagine how empty it will be without Vinny. Like I have said before, Vinny isn't just the face of the franchise, Vinny IS the franchise. If you trade Vinny away, there is no need for Marty either. So in a matter of less than a year, you trade away the 4 most popular players the team has, what do you think fans are going to do? Would you support the team that just sent your favorite players packing? Most fans wouldn't (I mean, these are "fans" who wear Lightning stuff all year except when the Red Wings and Sabers are in town, then we Bolt fans are out numbered). Something like that might be okay in Canada where people will go watch crappy teams play (see Toronto), but down here you need that big draw to get the most people to show up. If you stink and you got rid of all of the players everyone knows then you are toast. I know, winning solves everything, but winning takes a few years and I don't know how if we would have that long to become good again.

I think Vinny needs to take some time off and let his shoulder actually heal. Maybe these few days they have off will help, but I think he needs a good month of rest. Will he do it? I doubt it. Of course, I think that shows his true leadership, even when he is hurting he knows the team needs him and he is out there every night. Because lets face it, having a Vinny at 75-85% gives us a better chance of winning than having no Vinny.

In order to fix this team, I don't know what to do. We need a real training camp. Melrose left us with a big pile of crap that Toc is trying his darnedest to correct. I think we need to limit the transactions over the summer (obviously we need to get rid of some of the old, dead wood and bring up the young guys who deserve a spot). We need to make one big move over the summer to bring in a real #1 d-man. That is what this team is majorly missing. We have a bunch of guys who might be #1 or #2 guys in the future, but just aren't ready right now. I also say give Toc a shot with a real season and a real training camp. I like his honesty in answering questions and I want to see what he can bring to the table with a full season to work with.

Guess I should have written a CliffNotes version of this...

[PD]

Bird Col. is about right talkie

Great one flash except there is not the financial means in Tbay to wait out anything. I'll be very surprise if they make it to April..
no one will be buying tickets after xmas

Problem with V4 is as you identified, in addition to floating, he's a cap killer. In 2010 the cap will plummet by at leat 5-6 mill putting his contract off the charts for anybody , even Montreal.

[hockeytalkie]

agree with much of that coach bill

regarding VL4 the expression "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. no torts to nudge him around, no shared limelight, every previously perceived distraction is gone. he got the linemates he wanted (twice). he's now the leader but has never truly learned how to lead. it's the difference between a bird colonel and a general.

[Boltflasher]

Whew, I felt like Ajax on that one...

[Boltflasher]

Yes, coach, the current team is passionless. There is talent on the team but little heart. Its time to move the "C" to Malone and hopefully Halpern will provide some leadership and passionate play out there soon as well. The constant rehashing of trades and moves from last year and the offseason does not solve anything for the now. The current roster players need to understand that they are now playing for their jobs on this team and if they want to be somewhere else, then that can be accomodated.

I have said before, lose due to the other team just being better, not due to being outworked or lack of passion.

I think Smitty, Malone, MSL are the only keepers from a passion-play standpoint (and, mabye, a "C-less" Vinny). A diplomatic way of changing it would to be have all "A"s, perhaps?

As far as the D goes, I think Ranger, Mezzy, and Eminger are being asked to be #1 and 2 defenseman when at this stage they are really second line, 3 and 4's at best. Won't be able to fix that this season without a Olie Jokinen-like trade. A Victor Hedman may fix one of those, but even so, like with Stamkos, how long will it take for him develop? It took a few years for Chara to become the player he is now. So, the questions are:

1) Do we blow it up or make tweaks? do we move Vinny to open up the cap and to bring in some additional D, a couple of young forwards and picks? or do we sit and watch and wait for another #1 or 2 pick, along with Smaby and Mihalik, to develop? ...could be a while. Will anyone be willing to add that cap killing contract of Vinny's?
Can we trust our current management to make a trade with V4 that will make TB a better team? ....I say we do not move Vinny because he is the leading scorer and the team's franchise player, and its unlikely they would get back equal or more value...remember the Joe Thornton trade..

2) there should be some good D men UFAs available after the current season. Do we do nothing and wait for them? ....Sort of, we make what changes we can at the trade deadline but sit down now and identify those UFA's we will want...

3)If we blow it up do we do it now, at the trade deadline, or after the season? or a combination of all 3 or does it just new a few tweaks with some UFAs? ...Again, see #2 above, whereas with a number of players with 1 year contracts are on the current roster, this team will sort of be ready for rebuilding at year's end anyway.

The Bolts have put themselves between a rock and a hard place. They made a lot of moves and decisions during the offseason when they did not have a bonafide GM in place and are paying the price for that. They have a talented but passionless team that is a hodge podge of mixed talent not matched for any particular style of play or plan. The fannies in the seats will start dwindling if the team continues its passionless play, yet, blowing it up again now would make them look they're desperate and grasping at straws...an unenviable situation. Bottomline, I think moving the "C" is a simple tweak that will take some heat off of Vinny, correct a mistake from the offseason and will start the transition to the "new" Bolts team without losing your leading scorer and franchise player.