St. Louis makes a statement

Who knows how much has been said behind closed doors between Lightning players. All we know is Marty St. Louis took it public after Saturday's 4-3 loss to the Thrashers. He said he was embarrassed and fed up with the effort and execution of some of his teammates. "Clock killers" he called the players who he does not believe care enough about their teammates or winning.

Emboldened by one of their leaders, some others players jumped in. Goaltender Mike Smith, who is winless in his past 11 starts and has been generally hung out to dry by his defense (Marek Malik and Andrej Meszaros were pretty awful in Saturday's game), said he does not know how some of his teammates sleep at night. Left wing Ryan Malone said players from AHL Norfolk should be brought up. It was all quite a scene.

But the hero, if you will, was St. Louis, who punctuated his tirade with expletives and said it all loud enough for everyone in the locker room to hear.

St. Louis has every right to talk. He has been Tampa Bay's best skater for most of the season. He has seven goals and nine points in his past eight games. He had two power play goals and a season-high seven shots against Atlanta. He is playing with eight stitches in his face where he was sliced by a skate. If that's not leadership, I don't know what is.

If nothing else it was a line in the sand.

Coach Rick Tocchet said before Thursday's game against the Avalanche, this five-game segment likely will determine if Tampa Bay has any realistic shot at getting back into the playoff race. So far, one point in two games.

Really, though, this season has not been about the playoffs for a while. It is about perhaps building for the future with a core of players who actually want to play. It must be incredibly frustrating for St. Louis, who is as driven and committed to the game as any player. If his words, even a little bit, put some of his teammates back on the right track, the loss, in a sense, will be worth it.

Comments

[Scoot]

Hey Leo:

"Do you believe in miracles"

Watch the movie!..

Desire beats talent....

[Tackleberry]

Patrick, you are right. BR was strangling TB with his high salary. He was not worth that much $. If he were at $3-4m it would be a different story.

Over the next month the "clock killers" will have to prove themselves. I am sure that the owners know who they are. TB is about $6.9m under the cap right now. I would assume that several players will be traded or sent to the minors, thus saving $$. With that additional savings, TB can get a couple top D-men.

I tried looking at what D-men would become available in Jan. Who could TB get in Jan???

[Patrick]

PD,

You mean the lighning shouldn't have traded Richards and his 7 mil for Mike Smith (.924 save %), Halpern and Jokinen and come out 3 mil lighter on the cap? Try to find someone who agrees with you on this blog or any other. The way Smith's played this year, the consensus would probably be it's a steal.

You must not know much about hockey if you think a goalie's record is the measure of a goaltender's skill.

[PD]

You mean like an 8-30 goalie as an All Star?
You da man Patrick.

[Patrick]

Boyle winning the Norris would be more a statement about how the trophy is awared now than about Boyle. Boyle hasn't taken a quantum leap since he's been traded to the sharks - he's just playing with a much better team. The year he scored 20 the lightning were near the top 10 in goals scored. It's not a coincidence.

He's a -39 for his career and he's been on some good lightning teams back when they had an all star goaltender. He's just OK defensively. Calling him the best defensemen in the league is just wrong. Are you saying that if the leaves could have any defensemen you wanted, you'd take Boyle?

Analyzing who's in the running the for trophy now is counting your chickens before they hatch.

[Patrick]

HockeyTalkie,

I agree with most of what you said. You covered things pretty thoroughly as opposed to my anecdote battle with pd. "Playmaker" is a more much accurate description of Richards than "scorer". And San Jose is stacked.

Another thing Richards lost from the year he scored 90+ points was playing with St. Louis - every year afterwards, St. Louis played with Vinny and Vinny's numbers shot through the roof. Definitely a pattern there.

If Smitty continues to play the way he has this year, I don't care what Richards does - I would take an all star goalie over an all star center every time.

[hockeytalkie]

i think boyle finished 4th for the norris 2 years ago when he potted 20. can anyone confirm that for me?

norris and selke more than the other awards, dont always go to the guy who deserves it, just w/the most buzz at the time. esp selke, some years the voters seem to lazy to see who actually kills penalties. they instead just look at SHG alone. i will say this, as much as i wanted MSL to win it in 2004, draper was the correct choice, w/madden in 2nd. although i thought MSL deserved the nom. (and 3rd place) over Alyn McCauley.

[PD]

Guess then it's time for you to fire one up Hyj because Boyler will win the Norris this year'

"Boyle winning the Norris trophy as the league's best defenseman is like Downie winning the Lady Byng

What is in the cannabis around here that wipes out people's memories? "

Real World/ USA Today

By Mike Brehm, USA TODAY
The Norris Trophy for best defenseman has nearly been synonymous with Nicklas Lidstrom during this century.
He has won the last three awards and three in a row from 2001 to 2003. Before that, he was runner-up three years in a row. The only time he wasn't invited to the awards ceremony as a finalist was in 2003-04 when Scott Niedermayer captured it.

His run faces a challenge this season. In the latest vote of USA TODAY's NHL Power Rankings panel, he placed fifth, well behind front-runners Shea Weber of the Nashville Predators and Dan Boyle of the San Jose Sharks. Of the five panel members who vote for the Norris Trophy, one had him third, three had him fifth and one didn't have him in the top five. Four of those five are based in Central Division cities.

[hyjyljyj]

Boyle winning the Norris trophy as the league's best defenseman is like Downie winning the Lady Byng

What is in the cannabis around here that wipes out people's memories? Remember? Boyle was TERRIBLE ON DEFENSE. Good puck mover, but NOT GOOD AT DEFENDING. Minus-29 last season. OK? Second-worst in the NHL. Remember? Good.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...in the modern NHL era of 5-man defense and 5-man attack, if there's a Selke trophy for the best defensive forward, it only makes solid common sense that there be a Coffey trofey or something for the best offensive defenseman. Big hole there that needs to be filled IMHO

And for the inaugural winner of the Coffey, Boyle is definitely in the running so far this season

[PD]

Totally agree Talkie and Richards has a Conn Smythe Trophy to prove it.
Who will be the next Bolt to win one of those??

25 playoff games in the Cup year 12 goals 14 assists 7 on the power play
All huge.

Richards played an equally big part in Team Canada's Gold Olympic Medal the next year.

Boyler and Kubina, along with Habby were the other key players but Ritchie stirred the drink

Lets sum it up: a Conn Smyth Trophy winner, a likely Norris Trophy winner and what did we get back again?

Matt Carle, Jussi, a mid range guy with 2 reconstructed knee's and an 8-30 goalie. Oh and just for Ajax's sake the $ to overpay Malone. Malone I say.

The destruction of the franchise mostly.

[hockeytalkie]

patrick

i'm not taking any sides in this, but SJS didn't "just add boyle" to the PP they also added rob blake. combine those two with the front line scoring they already had in thornton & co. not to mention that Vlasic is also among the league leaders in D points. SJS is stacked from top to bottom with playmakers, great role players and up-and-comers like Setoguchi. and it's not like they've been missing the playoffs. the idea is with the added veterans on the blue line that reg season success will translate into the post season glory a-la Anaheim 2 season back (pronger and niedermayer).

i'm sure boyle alone would've upped their PP numbers, but he and Blake added at the same time? it's almost unfair.
+++++++++++++
to the richards side of it...

IMHO he's a play maker/opportunist. and by that i mean sometimes it's a goal, more often it's an assist. b/c his lslight frame he'll always need a modin or stillman type to go into the corners. he's just not strong enough to do that and anyone that expects him to wants to shorten his career. the modin trade more than anything is why his numbers dropped off.

dont think this is a newsflash to anyone here but while in TB DB22 advanced the puck and BR19 QB'd the pp once they gained the zone.

short answer BR doesn't have nearly the support that DB has at the moment. DB must think he's died and gone to heaven. that having been said BR currently has MORE POINTS than ANY player on the bolts. if he continues on his present trek and DAL gets back to respectability, watch the blog start adding the BR for smitty and co deal into the woes along w/boyle and the kuba/picard/#1 deals.

[Patrick]

PD,

As usual, as other people join in on our discussions, they point out it is you that doesn't have your facts straight. It's not about me misunderstanding hockey - I understand quite well that Richards is not at all a "pure scorer". Please, anyone else who thinks he is, please speak up and support PD on this.

To backup Mike's point, San Jose's power play has improved this year from 18% to 22% with Boyle on it. Meanwhile, Dallas's has gotten worse by 4% points.

[mike p]

PD, Boyler was the key cog in the great TB powerplay. Everyone knows that. (Aside from maybe Koules and Barry when they traded him)

[PD]

Patrick you saying that Ritchie wasn't the key cog in the great Tbay Pp?

[PD]

Its more about you not understanding hockey Pat

[Patrick]

"Richards is a pure scorer and is leading the Stars in points, what a surprise.
The death of the Tampa PP with him gone is no surprise."

The Dallas PP is 3rd worst in the league right now at 14.1%.

The Tampa power play is bad at 14.7%, but it's actually better than the stars power play.

Try checking your facts once in a while...?

[Patrick]

PD,

Yeah, I get it - you don't want to admit you said something silly. It's not that big a deal.

[BrianB23]

Give that St. Louis the Captain's "C"!!!

[PD]

Marleboro, unfortunately PB is still fighting off cancer.
He pro scouts Florida for the Devils.
Coaching is out.

He's also way to smart to have worked for a puppetmaster like Barrie anyway.

[PD]

Hey Patwick is rather easy.

Look at a scoresheet and you will see how you score an assist

Its called keeping score, goals and assists...scoresheet..get it Patwick?

[Not the Marlboro Man]

Time to stop the charades....fire Tocchet and bring in Pat Burns before he looses intrest in a come back. All the raving and ranting in the world isn't going to work with this team unless they have a solid system in place.

[Patrick]

"Patrick if it was pure goals , I would have said sniper."

PD,

Tell me how does one "score" an assist? I'd really like to know.

So I guess according to you, Craig Janney was another pure scorer - he even scored more than Bret Hull when they were on the same line. Awesome.

[Patrick]

Ajax,

Exactly - now that boyle is off the team, he is going to win the norris trophy and richards is a pure scorer.

I love richards, but hearing someone say he is a pure scorer makes me laugh every time I read it.

[leo]

Coach. More V4, less Bolt. Though, as a bonus, the latter makes for excellent drama, the soapy kind.
On Sundin,
No one is more disappointed than me (maybe PD). Not in Sundin as much as Modern Professional Sport.
After all the fine speeches, the assurances, the displays of honor to go where Victory would be in his grasp?
He goes to the money.
It's just so...whatever.
Now, I'm not saying Couver sucks and has no chance, but please. C'mon. A series against the Sharkies or the Wingers? Heck, the Duckies? The FLAMERS?! Seven games against Iginla and the Flamers??
Please.
Lang is working out VERY smartly for Us at the moment so We recovered from Our Swede mourning awhile ago. Still, We figured something would get worked out with NY or Philly or heck, the Wings, the Sharks.
But Couver? After EVERYTHING he said???
Oooohh...
I don't usually do my google studies when posting but I did'em now.
Feb 24th. The Nucks in Mtl.
I wonder how We'll react...
P.

[ajax]

Patrick you hit something right on the head without really saying it. When guys wear a Lightning jersey, PD is all over them. When they leave, the very next year, they become instant NHL stars. On the Sundin thing I was only repeating what the analysist on NHL network said. Mike P., From what has been announced since, Sundins got about 1/2 his money in a signing bonus so his cap hit is only 5-6 million, leaving Vancouver some space. Richards, 65 goals in three years with a 23.4 million dollar paycheck. Yes PD you are a good judge of talent. With him here and Homer still in net, we might not have any wins.

[PD]

Patrick if it was pure goals , I would have said sniper.

Regardless, his absence on the PP is sorely missed, no?

As a Ritchie fan Patrick you would also know he is one of the best shootout scorers in the game.
Something else badly missed.

He also gave the team a credible second line and secondary scoring.

Oh well, long live the Barrie era.

[Patrick]

"Richards is a pure scorer"

PD, I said a while ago you do a better job of making an @ss out yourself that anyone else could and you've proven me right again here.

8 goals in 31 games is a pure scorer? He's not even a sure bet to score 20 goals a season. You must be talking assists, but you don't "score" assists. Leo must be proud of you right now.

Where were you last year when I was consistently defending Richards while almost everyone else was scapegoating him. Even if you are clueless about everything else, I could have used the support. Regardless, even I now recognize Mike Smith straight up for Richards would have been a great trade. Move on, PD, move on.

[PD]

Leo was just laying out the truth Amanda and I'm sure your mom isn't ugly either.

Sugar coating things never makes them better.

Makes no sense to burry heads in the sand.

[PD]

Richards is a pure scorer and is leading the Stars in points, what a surprise.
The death of the Tampa PP with him gone is no surprise.

[Bob]

USF Dave, agree.

This team isn't a one player fix.

Boyle could make a difference, but not sure how much. Richards, he should be in the Ice Capades. He won't check and waits for someone to set him up for a shot. He doesn't make or cause positive things to happen.

It is sad to think that the Bolts could put 8 of us posters on the ice and the team's spot in the standings wouldn't be any worse than it is today.

[Amanda]

Coach Bill-
First of all, "insulting" and "telling it like it is" are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Something can be insulting and still absolutely true. For example, if I told PD his mom was ugly... (I kid, PD!)
I wasn't saying Leo was insulting us. I was just saying it wasn't necessary to rub salt in the wound. Yes, he's telling the truth, but I felt like it wasn't necessary to do AGAIN, when the conversation hadn't been about that.
However, Leo explained what he was actually saying, and I see what he was saying now. It just didn't come off that way to me on the first read-through. What he said was: "it might not be a matter of effort for the guys being called out; maybe they're really trying and they're just not all that good." The way I read it before Leo clarified was: "I don't know why St. Louis bothered calling people out, it's not going to do any good, the team just sucks. Give up."
See?

[USF Dave]

Tick Tock Tick Tocchet.

Tocchet has now been given as much time as Melrose and has not put the numbers up on the standings board. So why is he still here?

Don't want to pay another coach? Or is he buddy-buddy with the management?

At this point I see nothing to contradict what Melrose has said after being dismissed. It looks like the in-crowd is running this like their private club to the extent of even the player personnel needing ties to Barrie.

Boyle would do nothing on this team except post another huge +/-, he excels on San Jose because he's surrounded by a completely different set of players and system where his offensive defense game works. Here it would be a disaster again. Nor would Richards, expect to see him out of hockey in a couple years.

The problem is simply the clique attitude of the new management and the player and coach friends they have brought in. When I see Tocchet showing the shootout roster to Lecavalier and Roberts and see Roberts and Lecavalier arguing about it I know there is a rift and a coaching problem.

[mike p]

Ajax, last time I checked, with a prorated contract, depending on when they start the prorating from Sundin should have a cap hit of about $6.3 million. That leaves Vancouver with $1.2 million in cap space. Now Vancouver currently has 23 players up and healthy. However, since Luongo, Rypien, and Johnson are injured, but not on the injury reserve, their contracts count against Vancouver's cap too. Vancouver also has 8 Dmen up at the moment. Now, when the injured players return, the MINIMUM amount of space cleared up by sending down 3 players for the Canucks would be around $1.55 million. Also, they would have to send down another player to make space for Sundin clearing up approximately $2 million. So with the minimum amount possible sent down and the other extra space, that would leave Vancouver with approximately $3.25 million in cap space. That would leave them with more cap space than 17 other teams. And since the cap hit for a player depends on the amount of time they play for the team out of 186 days, should they want to pick up a player at the deadline, they could afford players with yearly contracts totaling about $14.7 million. I hardly think signing Sundin at that price 'handcuffed' Vancouver as you said Ajax. If you have any questions about the math, feel free to ask me and I will explain how I got everything.

[Tom M]

Anyone know if mastermind Len Barrie is still contending that the Lightning are going to win the division this year?

Give me 90 days in the front office with the same payroll and me and my colleagues in Section 214 will put a better product on the ice as well as get more fans in the building.

Barrie, Koules, and Lawton are the Three Stooges of the NHL!

[PD]

Leo has been blogging here a couple of years, have not once found him to be insulting.
Manic maybe, boastful maybe , insulting not.

[PD]

On the payroll thing, since going forward anyone over 25 doesnt really fit what the Leafs are putting together, I don't see why that is an issue with you.

They will likely sign Nash in 2010 but are better positioned than most for the cap crash that you hadn't heard about.

[PD]

Ajax no one else gives a fidoo about the Leafs here Ajax, I don't go on about them.
You happen to be right on the entertainment part though , Wilson has them delivering to the best of their ability . Laid a beating on the Pens last night.

If its true is that bad?

[ajax]

PD the difference between you and about everyone else on this post is this. When Toronto losses 6-5, it was an excitiing game and everything is going as planned with the last place perennial loser Leafs. Great effort with exciting kids. When we lose, it is a dullard effort and whispers in the locker room and the owners robbing the Pepsi till to make payroll. Your A-Z rants are bad enough, it is the constant, "I know what everyone is thinking and they are all evil, spineless, back stabbers" Just think what you have and ignore in Toronto, Billionaire owners 13 million under the cap, a THROW AWAY SEASON AND THEY ARE OPEN ABOUT IT. Can you imagine your blogs PD if our owners came in and cut payroll?? The old double standard with you, as usual. You ain't happy unless you are miserable. The definition of a hopeless pessimist.

[PD]

Sundin screwed Toronto?, thats a new one.

Call me crazy , Seems to me the Canucks just got a whole lot better.

Thats why they paid him 10 mill only 5 this year. Van has cap room.

[PD]

Now back to your straw man crap Ajax.
You said I called Smith a loser, I didn't, again don't make shlit up.

On how I can assume it was Vinny Marty was talking about, hello Ajax..there are about 20 others here in front of me on that one.

Its a no brainer Ajax

[ajax]

Watched a great commentary about the Sundin signing. The guy was 110% against it and he gave reasons. Sundin repeated time and time again he didn't want to be a "rent a player" and then did just the opposite. He stated did he really think his best chance to win a cup was with Vancouover?? Not a chance. He could of taken less, and played on a better team. And last which was a great point, he said by Sundin signing for the reported 10 million prorated it puts Vancouver squarely up against the cap ceiling and gives them no room to do anything else to the roster come playoff time. For a guy who said his only goal was to have a chance to win the cup, he handcuffed his team in everyway. NO KIDDING. Seems to me the honorable Mats Sundin, screwed Toronto, screwed Vancouver, but got himself some nice poker money. Wasn't that that the real goal??, and very obvious to everyone who followed this???

[PD]

Ajax while I'm at it may I blow up another one of your Canards?
This one:
We are close, obviously with 15 one goal losses and another 5 that were empty net 2 goal losses

If you watch as much hockey as you boast, you would know that in the vast majority of those games the Bolts were badly out of those games early and tended to pot a couple as the other team just ran out the clock. They were hardly competing in hard fought 1 goal games because they can't..no toughness.

[ajax]

PD, are you making some kind of assumption that Marty is talking about Vinny to the press?? Even in your state of negativism how could you possibly conclude that. The mind is a terrible thing. And yes he is a 52 goal slacker that was being touted as MVP the last two years. Two years ago he had 9 SH points. Yeah terrible two way player. (Are you sure you are not thinking of your man crush Brad) Hate/jealousy always skews your reality on such matters. On Smith twice you have posted about him not being a number 1 cause of his record. That is a fact not a paraphrase. Florida never made the playoffs with Luongo, so I think any intelligent person could assume you meant he wasn't up to the job cause of his record. That is what you printed, Twice. Nothing about his ability or how everyone from coast to coast thinks he is doing a helluva job. You stated he is not a number 1 cause of his record. That is another crazy bell weather, but like I have always said, you look at any stat to turn it ugly against the Lightning. Smith's save pct and GAA are better than either Detroit goalie, so they must be minor leaguers too. you see the folly in your logic?? Smitty is 6th in the entire league in SPct and let me assure you, he handles tough chances, but you have surmised he isn't ready cause of his W-L record. Brilliant. I have noticed a huge dropoff in net when Smitty takes a day off. By the way I am about 110% sure every goalie in the league would have a poor W-L record here this year. They must all not be ready according to your logic and criteria. Brilliant. And Marty was agreeing with you about Vinny not being a leader. Insanity rules once again.

[Nan]

Doesn't matter who the leaders are or who is wearing what letter. What matters is that the guys hold each other accountable and act as a team.

[PD]

Come on Ajax if you need to paraphrase me for some reason, then please get it right.

On Smith, vever called his a loser , thats crap Ajax, I simply said his record in a Bolt uniform is 8-30 and that doesn't prove him YET to be a number 1 or a savior.

On Lecavalier, never called him a loser either, said he was a slacker who continuously waits at the blueline for a breakout pass and is weak defensively.
Also said he was no leader.
I think Marty pretty much agrees.

I'll stand with that, if want a quote use it but don't make crap up.

BTW I said in Oct this team would never contend with this defence while many here were chirping about the great Boyle and Mezaros trades, that includes you Ajax.

and if you think Mike Smith is remotely in Luongo's talent snack bracket then, ..........nuff said.

[Oscar]

No 'I told you so's' from me on St. Louis' fiery leadership qualities.

Just tongue in cheek "Go get 'em Marty" and a reiteration that #26 and #41 are exempt from the blanket party.

I will repeat that I'm sick that young Stamkos has to witness this jive; and isn't it curious how a club deteriorates with Mark Recchi in the room and improves once he's gone?
Ship he and his superfluous numbers out for something worth a darn, while he's pseudo-hot.

Think of a club with Marty St. Louis and Jeff Halpern out there going ba... 'nads to the walls and some slacker doesn't finish a check. Those are your leaders, gang. Those with GQ subscriptions can follow Vinny Baby to wherever.

Go Bolts!

[Bob]

Marty might be the smallest guy out there, but he's got the biggest ballz. Agree he should be wearing the "C".

Insider tip, Thunderbug will be put on waivers on Tuesday.

[Boltflasher]

Currently traveling during the holidays, and havén't been on in a couple of days, did not see the Atl game but the outcome was as expected, another one goal loss. Looks like the D was awful....and way to go MSL, why aren't you the captain? ...short guy getting overlooked?

Agree that Malik should be #5 or 6, we do not have #1 or #2 or even a #3 D guy, Ranger and Mezzy are both #4s. We will not be able to compete until this is resolved. This team only wins with a 120% effort which they are unable to sustain.

The point of sending Jokinen through waivers was to show that see, no one wanted you...you better start playing better just to get off this team...

[mike p]

Atta boy Marty. That's exactly why this guy's been my favourite since day one. I love how V$ is nowhere to be found during these comments or in response to them.

[leo]

Ain't no leafer gonna be Our brother, Ajax. You should know better than that.
So if PD is the one who said it...
What do you want from me, exactly?
P.