Owners happy with tweaked financing plan

If, as everybody is saying, the agreement between Lightning owner OK Hockey and Palace Sports & Entertainment helps maintain the stability of the organization's finances, then the meeting between the parties last week in the NHL's New York offices was well worth the time and trouble. Consider, then, what NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said on Saturday.

"From our perspective," he said in an e-mail, "we are comfortable the Lightning's financial obligations are being satisfied, and will continue to be satisfied going forward."

What apparently happened is principal owner Oren Koules, general manager Brian Lawton and Palace Sports CEO Tom WIlson met to restructure some of the $70-million financing agreement OK Hockey got from outgoing owner Palace Sports.

Details were unclear except that Daly said the NHL is not involved financially. But the bottom line seems to be that the tweaks will allow OK Hockey to better deal with its debt while it searches for a bank loan to pay off Palace Sports, which it is believed provided OK Hockey a three-year financing agreement when it sold the team. OK Hockey put in about $100-million of the $200-million purchase price. Palace Sports and Galatioto Sports Partners, a New York sports investment firm, financed the rest.

It should be no surprise that a search for investment capital has gotten more difficult because of the wordlwide credit crunch. Even so, owner Len Barrie said the restructured financing agreement is a chance to "create value," and maintain the organization's stability.

"It's a positive story," Barrie said. "We're not dumb guys. We didn't put in $100-million cash to lose it in three months. We have a good business here. We think we can turn it into a great business in the next three years."

Bottom line, Koules said, "It gives us a lot of room to maneuver and do what we want to do with the team."

More in Sunday's paper.

Comments

[Patrick]

PD probably just has every friend, err, family member posting his message on here along with him.

[ignatz]

Truly unbelievable. That would be like you being accused of being Lawton or one of his lackeys.

[PD]

No Ajax you are just going through a complete personal delusional mental meltdown.

Its because you can never be wrong and wrong is now hitting your head with a sledge hammer from all directions.

As George Costanza put it, your worlds are colliding , the real one is where the Bolts are the joke of the league, hemmorraging 30 mill a year, 45 with debt service and are now forced to firesale their players.

Your answer to that, because there isn't one, is to say Ignatz and I are the same guy and the cause of the problem.

FReaking sad brother

Don nice to see you on the board.
Right about VFloat and the rest.

[ajax]

Flasher, I said the same thing, SWEAR!!
You were one of the guys that picked up on the Bear/PD BS too. Ignatz uses the same exact phrases etc. When I was doing my research on PD's quote I would see quotes 1 hr apart, one signed PD the other Signed Bear. He is desperate, d-e-s-p-e-r-a-t-e to be right about his doom and gloom. I am lost for words trying to understand what makes a guy like this tick. I think total self-absorption might be close??

[Boltflasher]

PD/IGnatz (dual IDs again?)...this is not a complicated matter...the league has to review and OK (no pun intended) any restructuring plan, therefore, the league's involement in the meeting...

[ignatz]

PD, I'm giving the same good advice you gave me. "Spare yourself the grief." He doesn't understand, doesn't want to understand, and will never understand...even after the deal unravels.

[Patrick]

PD,

Lol... here's my take on your "record"

You are years late on Vinny sometimes coasting in games - you clearly haven't watched him his whole career.

No one cares about the rangers on this board - irrelevant.

Stamkos has played less than 50 games - yours and anyone else's conclusions are premature.

Ignorantly simplistic on the attendance of the lightning, ignoring factors such as a global economic crisis and the effect of the last place finish the previous year.

Fire sale - you are right about something that hasn't happened?

Wrong about them not being better, check their standing last year (last) and check where they are this year (5th from last and only 2 points behind the maple syrup).

[ajax]

NHL guarenteeing the money. Silly. The implosion will happen Xmas, no Easter, no June. Sad...
100 stories the last three years about Vinny getting traded...no trade.
Owners handing over keys by Xmas??
I copied 2 posts where you said why resign Boyle?? You didn't even want him signed....Vinny a MVP candidate and 52 goal scorer and he is lazy....Rangers without OT are 15-15-14, you mean a dissappointment? Mezzy playing 25 minutes a night. Top 25 in minutes in the NHL....The Brand is good, as 16,900 a night will attest...in a horrible economy!!!! What fire sale, what did I miss??
For every story their is a non-story denying it. It certainly is what "YOU" want to believe. Actually attendance is down 2,019. Of course like every other stat/phrase/fact etc you know the real truth and it is always bad. Isn't it this simple when describing you. If it is a bad rumor, it is Gospel. If it is a good rumor/article its BS, from owners to Bettman. No one has credibility but the negs. What a perfectly screwed up world you live in PD.
Actually I am glad you posted your opinions. Gang, take a look at what PD thinks about his favorite team. This is why everyone, EVERYONE, should see the real light. From A-Z nothing is good. This guy writes 10 times a day about the Lightning and how much he likes them and it is his team and then look at that post.
Was he right about Smith?
Was he right about the Smith trade?
Has Marty missed a step, like you posted??
Was Eminger a good pickup??
Recchi was washed up?? I'd like two more of him at 1.5 mil.
Stamkos?? 18 yrs old, no Crosby but on pace for a 28 point year.
VL4 at 18, 28 points..
Eric Staal at 18, 31 points
Mats Sundin..not in the league until 20...
The real differnce in our lists PD??
Everything on your list sucks, just like everything you write.
Me, I see a team that has made great strides, not only from early this year..but from a horrible team last year and lame duck, don't give a darn owners. We don't have Richards leading the league again in minus. But hey remember your posts PD. You hated him with our jersey on his back. You throw it in all of our faces now that he is gone. That is how you work. Looking for negative angles every second of the day, for your team.
Come on folks, read PD's list. Let him know how nice it is to read a summary of what he really thinks about our team. 6-3-1 in last 10. We are perilously thin on D, but keep this team healthy and who doesn't think they are playing good hockey??
I for one am eternally hopeful, cause it is simple. I love this team. PD you are 110% negative, there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING, you can ever write. 6-3-1 and I dare anyone to find even one compliment the last 15 days. Even one play. Read the lists. It says volumes about all of PD's real truths. The guy is a hater, a downer, a really really bizarre dude. If you really felt that way about something, someone/somewhere explain to me why you would get on the old pc 10x a day to convince everyone about the end of the Lightning??
Read his list. Take a step back. The picture of PD is perfectly clear isn't it.

[PD]

actually I was right there naive boy, Bettman stepped in. He had to. He wasn't invited for tea.

Why do you think there were 100 stories on the Bolts Financial troubles?

Right about them not being any better just different too, from day 1.
right on no defense to compete from day one
right on the disasterous Boyle trade
ditto getting totally ripped on the Mezsaros deal
real on Stamkos being a dud
right on the rangers being a surprise
right on Vinny being lazy
right about Koules ruining the brand, down 3000 per game
right on the fire sale
right on you being a Koules fluffer\]etc etc

[PD]

Heh Marosh..I'm aboard

[leo]

No other team has ever wanted Vinny.
Only Montreal.
So why should WE pay top dollar?
We'll give you Dandy. And if you don't gripe too much, We'll throw in your favorite purloiner Ryan O'Byrne.
Once you drive Us to Our hotel, if you've kept quiet during the ride, We'll throw in a 2nd-rounder.
And you'll say "Thank you."
Or the deal's off.
P.

[Boltflasher]

"Bettman stepped in a guaranteed the loan to Palace after Koules defaulted to avoid a PR disaster, they already have one in Phoenix." I'll give you credit...you've got quite a fantasy life...

The only thing for sure in all this is that Mtl has wanted Vinny for quite awhile...

[ajax]

The owners didn't put down anywhere near half and...don't own it.
Where do you get your information? FInd even one article that says that. Just one.
The NHL guaranteed the other 70 million. Find one article other than Professor PD on that crapola. If the owners are lying and they are proved to be lying don't you think someone is going to call them on it. A media world and yet so many open lies. I just don't buy the conspiracy that all of you read into it. It is a tough world out there today, but the guys have resources.....
I read some articles today too. Bear Mountain sold over 300 million in Condo's before even one unit was built. Over 500 million before year 2007 alone. World wide the Saw Franchise has sold 658,000,000. So far figures are in on DVD sales for the first 4 only. Total for first 4: 200,000,000. With other sales (theme park rides etc) it is a billion dollar franchise, The total cost of the first five movies?? A little over 37 million and that includes DVD costs.The first one alone cost one million and it sold over 100 million/70 mil DVD and they split with no one, nada. As Executive Producer of Two and a Half Men, I am sure he is making oodles. Charlie Sheen makes 20 million per show. It has been a top 10 show for 5 years. OF course it is proably monopoly money to some of you. DVD sales are more profitable than the movie and The Saw franchise up thru #4 had sold 200 million. DVD profit is estimated at 50-60%. You do the math. Yeah I say they are broke and going to hand in the keys at Xmas. OOPS. PD we have it on record about your BS, does that mean you lie on every post (probably) but the witchhunt is so out of control.

[PD]

Bob McKenzies comments from today now online.

Its all up to Vinny now.

http://tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=262987&lid=headline&lpos=secStory_main

[PD]

Steve O , sorry, I'm a step ahead.

I meant look at the team as a new owner, I meant as the next in line owner after the snakeoilers.

They won't buy a bloated payroll.

Bob McKenzie was live tonight on Faceoff on TSN. Said for the 1st time ever he now believes for financial reasons the trade happens as long as Bolts can convince LeCavalier to go.

May have been already posted but the current framework has it:
V4 / Higgins, Plecanic Josh Georges, PK Subban and picks.

[PD]

Ignatz, the guys drooling over himself. Even I'm embarrassed for him.

The Cons didn't put down anything near half for the club and until they buy it, they don't own it.

They are bleeding red ink profusely thus the need to dump costs /salary.

Bettman stepped in a guaranteed the loan to Palace after Koules defaulted to avoid a PR disaster, they already have one in Phoenix.

He's trying to spin it like Koules is flush and fixed the problem.

Palace has a number guaranteed by the league, no matter what and its doubtful that these morons could possibly do any more damage to the brand.

You can bet the league is seeking yet another owner as we speak.

[leo]

Boy, you guys know Montreal SOOO well.
Yeah, you've hit our motivations right on the head.
Yes, conspiracies dreamed up by "excited nord des ligneurs INVENTING" these rumours.
Yes.
You've got it all figured out. Nothing to it at ll. All lies. All BS. YOU guys know the REAL truth and are rational UNconspiring, nice, nice, SMART hockey fans.
Unlike us stupid excited canadians who are only trying to STEAL Vinny and are prepared to INVENT radical stories to set in motion something that will NEVER happen.
Because everything's going FINE in TB and nobody is going anywhere UNLESS you trade a bucket of pucks for Crosby.
THEN, maybe, you'll consider it.
Cuz YOU guys have the straight dope.
And we're just out to get you. Lies won't stop us.
It's ALL our fault.
Pff.
I didn't start any of this. You got questions? I'll answer. But I admit it offends me a little to hear some of you GENERALIZE a whole population for what ONE clown told you.
Manage your emotions if you can and go ONE point at a time.
Questions?
P.

[ajax]

Iggy. You of accountant savy. There is due dilligence. And what you and I guess your one and only source are saying is Barrie has got some sort of Pyramid scheme going. If Palace is giving a 70 mil note they (unless they are idiots) know exactly where the money came from. And they know without a doubt the financial liability of where the buck stops. From your comments the past two days, you want all of us to believe the Davidson and Co. took a 70 mil note from 6 guys who have little invested?? I guarentee they traced every single penny of that money. Anyway I feel like I am explaining simple business basic. Barrie has creditors all over the place and Davidson isn't aware of them?? Take it one step forward, if what you say is true, then you are also saying Davidson had a meeting last week and gave them more rope with his asset?? Maybe people do give 70 mil notes without duing due dilligence and 2000 hours of accounting preparation. Is this simple enough. Davidson did not sell this team with even once ounce of doubt he would be getting the full 200 million. If you were selling a 2000 car and the guy gave you half, somehow I think you would want to be 100% sure you were getting the other 1000. But Davidson and them must of skipped a few steps based on what you print. Two things to believe. Davidson and Co. met and were 100% satisfied and it was business as usual, or Davidson met and were very skeptical and it was business as usual. I guess their is option 3, Davidson is worried to death and is going to sit by and hope is asset is secure?? My faith is in the inaction of Palace. They are going to do whatever it takes to make sure they get their other 70 mil RIght?? Or they are going to cross their fingers and hope it doesn't go down the tubes and they really get stuck with a rotting carcass in 6 months?? Anywho....I guess some of you should ask yourselves, if you had 100 mil in the kitty what would you be doing?? Handing over the keys?? If you were owed 70 mil, would you hope that you get the rest or make darn sure you were getting the rest?? Amazing how much some of you know abut the particulars of these transactions with nothing ever printed about them.

[Oscar]

This has certainly gotten ridiculous in one quick hurry, hasn’t it?

Vincent Lecavalier is the face of our Tampa Bay Lightning, period. For better or worse, he’s OUR stud.
I say we keep him and keep him happy here.

I’ll praise Brittany here and echo that I wouldn’t take the entire Montreal Canadiens roster for him. That most certainly includes that over rated goalie up there.

That entire roster would play with much different results night in and night out if they wore a different sweater. (Feh Leo, put Pricemonster in our crease with our D and just cringe.)
Forget that Habs Mystique jive, they play as if they invented the game and every barn is THEIR barn.
Expected impunity, I call it.
The look of utter shock when whistled, plays out nightly. Leo or whomever the Merry Melodious one calls himself, called me onto the carpet for pointing out that fact and first thing you know, they do it on Versus and I’m saying, “Where’s Leo now?” Then a missed interference call for the Habs and the Canadiens squealed like a grounded teenager on prom night.
Maybe I’m the only one outside of New England noticing…

Keep that Canadiens team and we’ll happily keep Vincent. And Marty. And Jokinen. And Malone, Stamkos, etc. Next year we hunt for defense. I'm down with that----Hang in there Smitty.

Here's a kicker, anybody who takes Vinny has to take AND PLAY Malik too!

We’ll get there, dang it all.

This smacks more of some nabob Norde de Lignes starting some crap about (their wet dream of a) trade when we are low as a way to incite the fans to pressure the dilettante owners into a done (mis)deal. (“Boo Hoo, give us what/whom we want or we won’t spend money and come to any more of your games! Boo Hoo Hoo.”)
Talk about kicking someone when they are down…. That’s how the Canadiens play. A win is a win. They can’t take your name off The Cup.

The interlopers are right about one thing: we do get riled in a hurry and make rash comments until they fester into a hopeless mindset.
Easy pickin’s, don’t fall into their trap.

On task, I hope to see the dvr version of the game tonight and see the steady, slow upgraph sometime tomorrow.

We will be okay. Don’t quit on our Lads and they just might come together and surprise.
Tortorella didn’t come in and zip things around in one season.
We got the time, we got the beer.
Keep ‘em intact and it’ll be all right.
Other turds may be so envious so as to upset the ointment before the healing takes place, that’s their hobby.
Stay the course.

Go Bolts!

[Boltflasher]

Likewise, I didn't see Brittany's comments until now...Thanks Brit and Talkie.

Jon Jordans take on the current state of affairs is an interesting read:
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Jon-Jordan/41-Down-41-to-Go-An-Honest-Assessment-of-the-Tampa-Bay-Lightning/90/18830

[hockeytalkie]

sorry brittany didn't read your entry. just started typing hen i got home.

[Steve-O]

Interesting link that gets to my point, a PR disaster to dump V4 in a fragile hockey market.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/The-Lecavalier-Trade-Why-it-won-t-happen-why-i;_ylt=AoiSJf.p9k4WOFJtWEspLch7vLYF?urn=nhl,133849

[hockeytalkie]

ig -i consider the finances settled for the moment. and certainly through the trade deadline. ergo, i think V4 will stay put.

while driving my son to soccer practice tonight i heard dumig talking about the rumors on 620 AM. he said he sources were telling him that mtl maid an offer a day or two ago and went and told a few people about it before cowboys gave an answer. thus the firestorm in mtl today.

normally i dont care for dumig's schtick , buti will say that his was a VERY believable explanation.

[Boltflasher]

I don't believe a word of the Vinny rumours at this point whereas its all on TSN at this point...just like I didn't believe that Bear Mtn was being sold till DC verified it. I may be wrong, but I think its all contrived hype to put pressure on the Lightning and Vinny. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to say, but let's see where all this is 24 hours from now...(and I'm one who would welcome a deal if its the right deal)...

[ajax]

PD in my world, and my business meetings the past couple of months, there are plenty of people with oodles of cash. Hard to explain to you I guess, cause maybe you really aren't aware of it. I guess. Maybe that simple cause I don't know how to react to that sentence. When times are tough the super rich often come out even richer, cause they have all the cash. I didn't just make that up.
I throw this out to all of you. Digest it before you post. If Palace had even a whiff that the Cowboys had trouble. Even a whiff that they would be getting the team back. DO You think they would sit back and watch them make mistakes to devalue their asset. If they were on the edge like a few of you insist, wouldn't Palace be deeply involved with everything and anything?? Palce is going to sit by twiddling their thumbs while the Cowboys make decisions that could drive attendance down and payroll up. They trade VL4, they replace him with nada to save salary, there are 8000 people at the game?? Palace left that meeting feeling pretty darn ssecure I assure you. If you owned the mortgage and had 50% in the bank, would you risk the other 50% OF COURSE NOT. Bear/PD incites these riots and most of it is with talk that all of the other parties involved with the Cowboys are bling and dumb. Palace has everything to gain by Cowboys successs. Is that the most simplest statement. But they are going to sit by and watch it get destroyed?? All cause they "don't" want it back with 100 million already in their wallet. Len Barrie must be the sweetest talker on the fricking planet. One thing I know for sure, Davidson and COmpany are businessmen. 110% hard core businessmen. They hold all the aces and yet Bear acts as if they are being backed into a corner by Barrie and the league. Stop the noise. Stop the madness. If Davidson thought for one second his investment was going down the tubes or even close they would be running it again in a flat second. Common sense again.
Isn't it this time every year that Vinny is leaving. By the way not one post to remind everyone. The Brad Richards trade was the best trade in years for our organization. IF he gets traded I guarentee it will be for more assests than the Richards trade. Could anybody look at the possibilities of good versus believing silly PD.

[Brittany]

Espo on the radio said this is all a bunch of bs. He basically said that the last time the Habs were in Tampa, the Montreal reporters were thinking this up while they were watching the game. He also said that he has talked to Vinny and he doesn't want to go anywhere. I'm going to take what Espo says as a much more reliable source than all of those talking heads up in Canada. Deumig (I know, not the most reliable, but hey, he is closer than Canada to this stuff) also said that it was Montreal who approached the Lightning with an offer, and when we didn't respond, they leaked it to the French Canadian media. After hearing all that, I feel a lot better about this whole deal being a bunch of crapola.

On to the game tonight. Hopefully the Bolts can continue their domination of the Kings in LA. We haven't lost a game in 11 years in LA, lets not start now! Smitty is in net and they may have to go with 5 defensemen and an extra forward (according to the Lightning Insider). I can't wait for these late games to be over though. I have to get up at 6:30 tomorrow and staying up all night to watch these games is hard. Astrophysics should not be allowed to be taught early in the morning, it is just silly.

[ignatz]

From yesterday's Vancouver Sun:

"In June of last year, the team was sold for around $200 million to a group that includes Barrie, Hollywood producer Oren Koules and several others. Barrie is believed to have invested $20 million in the purchase."

It certainly wasn't $20M of his own cash.

And from today's Edmonton Journal:

"The Tampa Bay ownership twosome of Len Barrie and Oren Koules seem to be Mark Cuban wannabes, rebels without a clue making a hash of a recently top-end team."

[Steve-O]

PD, I am looking at it from the new owners perspective. You got your butt handed to you with all the summer moves and predictions of a 1st place finish, a joke coach and a revolving door circus. Come up for a breath before you do something else stupid. You have a product to sell and you are sitting on lots of supply and little demand in the short term. You need to fill seats and a mega trade for your team captain, the face of your organization, right after you sign him to a lifetime deal makes you look more stupid. They had input into Boyles deal too and then traded him away. Sign your stars to major "big" contracts before you ship them away 3 months later doesn't sound like good business. Is there any foresight or planning or just fly by the seat mgmt. It would make me very cautious if I am one of the remaining stars and get a big offer. I start looking at teams I might like to be traded to.

Are you really trying to sell your product or did Daddy give you his keys to the candy shop. If Vinny goes elsewhere and rebounds fully from injury and porous defense, (ala Boyle's an All-Star) then you are an idiot again . You are just building team chemistry after destroying it so you bring in 4-5 more new guys by unloading V4? Help me out with the new Owner perspective. Whats the value in the short term (2-3 years) A rebuild is a rebuild, the difference is it will take more wins without V4 to sell the same amount of season tix. At least with him, the Forum is half full during the rebuild rather than 1/4 full without him. Where am I missing the grand new owner strategy magic?

[PD]

Ajax you appear to having a mental meltdown before our eyes.

If you work in high finance, then god help your employer.

Cheaper money to be had?..how about there is no money to be had.

They met with Bettman to avoid a PR disaster with a default. The league stepped in.They aren't going to spell it out for you.

spare yourself the grief Ignatz.

BTW Ign, My understanding is that they came up with 85 of the 200 mill, pretty much same as you and Barrie's part was pledged against Bear Mountain.
real estate

The value of the Bolts at time of sale had included large real estate holdings in Tampa.

See sub prime housing crisis for how this real estate all plays out, let alone the teams spread sheet and record.

[Brittany]

Now that I am home and able to read all of these silly stories, I think I have relaxed a bit (searching on the iPhone while in class isn't the easiest). I agree with Steve-O that how would trading Vinny help OK at all with finances? There is no team that would be willing to deal with us that can just absorb his contract without giving us substantial contract back. I also think that due to the reworked finances, this doesn't make much sense. If they had problems, then I think the NHL would have done something about it when they reworked the deal with PS&E.

I think this whole thing started because some guy on the radio in Montreal said that Vinny's girlfriend wanted him to come play in Montreal because it was closer to her (although I've seen her with his parents the last few games I was at so I find that silly). If that is where everyone is getting their sources, then this is just ridiculous.

If McKenzie is right, then it comes down to what Vinny wants. I can't imagine him all of a sudden wanting to play in Montreal. Yes, things here have been crappy this season, but honestly, he has been through worse with us. To think that the next 11 years will be exactly like this, is a bit crazy I think. Also, the article says that he is unhappy because he hasn't performed up to expectations, how in the heck is playing for the Habs going to help that? If anything, it would make it more difficult. He has never wanted to play there because of all of the pressure (like most Francophones). Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I can't imagine him all of a sudden wanting out. He has had numerous chances to go "home" and play and he has never even given them much thought. I remember watching an interview where he said that he only once considered going to Montreal. He convinced himself that he was only going to sign a 1 year deal with us, and then hit the free agent market to go to Montreal. He said he went to bed that night thinking about it, and when he woke up he realized that it was stupid. Playing in Montreal wasn't going to be any different than playing down here and he called up his agent and told him he wanted to stay in Tampa (this was when he signed this contract that is expiring right now).

All of this being said, I will still be very upset if he is traded. If they trade him without his approval, I won't support these owners any longer. If they trade him because he wants out, I will be a bit disappointed with Vinny. To jump ship because things have been shaky (not even a year into this new era) is a bit of a cop out. I would understand that he doesn't want to "waste" his best years down here, but it is kind of like Favre coming out of retirement. Either you want to stick with us through thick and thin, or you don't. Sign the life-long deal and worry about the consequesnces later, or don't sign it and live with it, but don't change your mind a few months into it.

This is the last I am going to worry about these rumors. Either he is traded or he isn't. One thing is certain, unless Vinny comes out and says "I do not want to leave Tampa" or "I want out", these rumors won't go away until July 1, when his NMC kicks in (even then, who knows). Also, expect them to grow to crazy proportions the closer we get to the All-Star game if nothing is said.

[ajax]

Now they used 3rd party financing and didn't disclose it. Any lawyers out there?? Palace needs one and so does Vinny. Barrie and Company are doing everything under the table and only our bloggers know it!!! Just read this, Bear Mountain files bankruptcy and Koules ex-wife getting all past profits on all Saw Movies.

[ajax]

Now they are losing 30 million a year. Maybe they renegotiated their interest rate and saved 3-4 million a year??Could it ever be good?? Could it ever be what smart business people do each and everyday around the world?? What a possibility. I was in some business deals in the last 3 months where the "money guys" went out and got cheaper money. That is called smart business. And Palace doesn't want back the team with 100 million in the bank?? Might be the single most ridiculous statement I have ever read. Barrie with 100 mil to lose, forced Palace into a deal they really don't want. Makes perfect sense to me?? Wow it is to absurd to address. Some people read "sources" and think of possibilities. Others must get their info on the back of their Spiderman comics.

[ignatz]

Talkie...I know you concluded that the financing is "settled" from the good link you provided. The fact is, though, this was a temporary fix. Don't be surprised if PSE reclaims the franchise within 6 months.

[Patrick]

HockeyTalkie,

That was funny about the montreal forums. Following your line of thinking there, heh, if Vinny4 does get sent up there, I think it will be one those cases where the fantasy was better than the real thing.

[hockeytalkie]

of course if they deal vinny now they'll also save b/c of the cancelation of his bobblehead night (as they did with melrose)

[ignatz]

Ajax, Damien took their "word" for it. I guarantee you that Barrie did not put up 50M of his own dough or anything close to it. Real estate "moguls" and movie producers are absolutely notorious for using OPM. I could say that I hope I'm wrong that these clowns go into forfeiture but that would be disingenuous. Zeus forced Cronos to regurgitate his children and the world was better for it. The Lightning will be a better franchise without Dumb and Dumber at the helm.

[hockeytalkie]

has anybody seen this?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3827457&name=lebrun_pierre

while i wouldn't put it past the cowboys to lie again (see dan boyle and uncle jay). on the surface i tend to agree with this story. i think that the rumor was fueled by the ok financing which has since been settled and 10 years of wishful thinking.

... but it is funny to read the mtl blogs. basically an entire provence just j*zzed in their pants. hey leo, how do you say "clean up on aisle three" in french?

btw. i still dont like these cowboys

[ajax]

Now that is a well written article and God forbid Vinny wanted out. Some of you think that is impossible. I don't. But notice this article opens up lots of possibilities and doesn't have a hint of "the Cowboys are screwing Vinny and the Fans" Nice to read a grown-up article that posts facts, scenarios, pros and cons, and at least hints at a win/win scenario. Does that really happen in the real world? It does in mine. What if we woke up 2 years from now and had 3 maybe even 4 starters from this trade?? I think I suggested that very thing 6 months ago. The constant negativity is driving me mad.

[PD]

Steve O--Look at it from the prospective of a new owner buying the team and you will see it differently.

[PD]

Pat I'm with you completely on V4 playing in Montreal.

I don't think that he could remotely handle that responsibility of being the French hero and face of the franchise.

[PD]

Tack mostly because they are losing 30 mill a year without being able to pay Palace.
The business model is untenable and they have to dump costs.

Brittany, I will be happy to bring the wine.

[Steve-O]

Interesting take from McKenzie on TSN.CA
http://tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=262987&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_main

I still believe the empty seats will be long term regardless of whether he decides to go on his own. If he wants to leave because of the current status of the orginization then who will the fans blame. Either way it does not bode well, this whole mess.

[Steve-O]

I still can't figure the angle. With V4's cap number, any team would have to make space by giving back a similar #. How does that solve anything in the short term? You then have to resign likely at a higher #, or simply lose the value you got from the trade. Then the trust that is lost with ownership with remaining players. They will all look for the first chance to get off the boat. So again, why would this make any sense in the short term (1-2 years) You have to put butts in the seats as you rebuild and dumping V4 or MSL will empty seats while you retool. Somebody tell me why this would make sense. It is shooting yourself in the foot, unless you want to shoot yourself in the foot. (que the moving the team rants)

[ajax]

The horrible new owners also did this to screw the team.
They resigned Vinny 85 mil, 11 years...Malone 31.5 mil, 7 years...Prospal 14 mil, 4 years....Smith 4.4 mil, 2 years...Mezzy 24 mil, 6 years....Vrbata 9mil, 3years.
Except for Vrbata I think those are the guys we are counting on to turn this around. No?? Just me??
If you choose to dwell on all the crap and every horrible rumor. Lucky you!!
Oh yeah, they lowered most lower bowl season ticket prices too.
Wait and see should be the word of the day. Anyone notice a horrible world of finances going on. Maybe just me. Don't follow the devil gang.

[leo]

He wouldn't be wearing the C. Not this year anyway. And with Komo? I don'y know.
Spotlight? Pressure?
Maybe.
We'll risk it anyway.
If the deal is real, Plecky won't compensate but he will produce. 60pts a year.
Higgy is a worker who never quits and understands the sacrifices it takes to be an winner. Elite 3rd liner but wants 2nd line duty. 50 pts.
But the kicker? Mark my words, you'll love him more than V4.
Subban. General defenseman.
80pts.
You can quote me.
P.

[ajax]

PD, when you manipulate your posts this year, and they are completely opposite of the same thing you posted last year, it is amazing you call them dishonest. You have flipflopped on every subject, all with the single purpose of spreading your truths. You will say anthing at any given time, and you have no problem conveniently forgetting your "beliefs" to fit "whatever lie you need today" In my world, that is a manipulator. Those who live in glass houses.....

[ajax]

Ignatz, I respectfully think you are way off base in your post. Barrie, from what I read is a majority owner, with as much as 47% percent ownership, and I have read zillions of articles that put him as the main investor, with anywhere from 50 to 90 million of the investment. Damien wrote an article in October/November? about the sale with 100 mil down, 30 mil financed thru a Sports partner firm? Palace holding 70mil note. You wrote, I doubt if they put very little of their own money. Somehow I think that is 100% your own conjecture, based on you read what/where?? Nothing could be further from the truth. Show me one article that backs that claim, and I will show you a hundred that say Barrie put in at least 50 million. You say the Lightning are tied legally to Saw franchise and Bear Mountain. Again show me one article that states this. You can't and you won't. You mean by that sentence, they could lose Bear Mountain and Saw royalities by missing a 10 million dollar payment?? With 100 million down I doubt if they have even a nickel of anything else pledged. I will give you this, maybe they do, but your post and some of these posts aren't facts a bit. I have never read even one sentence of assets pledged. Has anyone?? Actually I know alot more about big business and sales of a corporation than most. Been through it. And newsflash!! It was years and many additional negotiations/compromises before every single dollar changed hands. No one went out of busines, not even close. Real world financing gang. Happens everyday and ISN'T ALWAYS BAD NEWS. The Montreal Canadiens have restructured/refinanced and have huge debt. Must be going out of business?? I got news for ya. There is tons of refinancing going on in the world today. The world is a little different than 6 months ago and no matter who paints the doom and gloom it is business and it is effecting everyone not just the Cowboys. Goes back to Business101, and what Barrie said is so simple, We didn't invest 100 million to lose it in 90 days. In the world of high finances there are a zillion options, not just the ugly ones that some post. So much of this comes down to the perception each individuals brain wants to except. I for one know this is a tough time for many many poor people and many rich people. People are reworking deals and reworking financial packages. Some paint that as the end of the world. I paint it as a step in moving toward a more positive picture, a happy ending for all.
Look above for example and read this post: PD "unpublicized one year window was slipped into contract". Not one ounce of proof to that staement. Slipped into the contract??. Exactly how do you do that PD?? Go down to the courthouse and type it in after Vinny's team of lawyers go thru the contract. Dillusional thoughts from PD, who has lied about everything for a solid year. When you make up stuff to validate your thoughts. When you knowingly flipflop your posts from one year to another to backup your hate. PD didn't change his mind folks, he just thought no one would notice how if he changed from Bear to PD, he could magically start a new angle of hate. All of those things lead to only prove one thing. No Honesty. Certainly very poor character. A fraud, saying anything, changing everything, to keep pouring on the crap. Don't let him get away with it folks. Richards(Goldenboy) Boyle(why did they resign him??) Jay(just being Jay) This year, same rants, just changed his tune a whole whole lot. Mistakes are accidents. When you knowingly misrepresent what you said last year, that is usually labeled dishonesty. Call it like it is. Very poor character, hard to believe one thing he posts, because his motives are very very clear, and he will manipulate anything (especially his own posts) to further his cause.

[Patrick]

I think I'm pretty much in the same boat as you Brittany. Wow would this team be different if Lecavalier wasn't here - I don't care what we get back from Montreal - I don't care if we start winning next year. He's basically the only superstar type athelete I know of in Tampa (I don't know the Rays). And the guy has obviously set his roots down here.

Leo, I know you are too excited to care about it, but I don't think Vinny would thrive up there. Look at how he played this year with the scrutiny of the C. Can't imagine the pressure a player feels playing up there.

If they wind up trading him because of financial reasons, that pretty much disproves Barrie's statement they other day:
"We're not dumb guys."

[Tackleberry]

Brittany,
Strong RUMORS. I have posted several links talking about a possible V4 trade to Mont. Most of the reports say that Lawton is just getting feelers on V4.

TB is $6.9mil below the cap right now. These rumors were started because of ownership possibly being in financial difficulty. Since owners and PSE worked out a deal, WHY trade V4?

[Brittany]

Don't care if you gave us your whole roster leo. It isn't about making the team better, it is about how you treat players and fans. If they never planned on keeping him, they shouldn't have signed him, simple as that. He never would have agreed to sign for the rest of his life if he knew they were going to trade him. They would have been able to trade him no problem, probably even easier without the long contract, at the trade deadline.

I hope this is just the usual Vinny to Montreal rumors we always hear, but there is a part of me that worries it might be true. If it is true, I'll take back all the mean things I said about you PD and say you were right.