As the I-Man Turns: Ifill and Kurtz Offer Differing Views of Imus Debate

When I called her for comment, she initially hesistated, wondering if she really wanted to get into what she called a "public p---ing match" with Don Imus.

But eventually, Washington Week host Gwen Ifill decided to talk to me about an issue she hasn't spoken about publicly very much: the racial insult hurled her way by Imus 14 years ago.

"When i was working at the New York Times (in 1993), his producer would call and ask me to come on the show. And I wouldn't return the calls, because I wasn't interested. Shortly after that, I would get questions from people asking, whatever happened with you and Imus. I didn't know what they were talking about. And they'd go, 'Oh, nothing.'

Turns out, what they were talking about was a insult she wouldn't learn about until New York Daily News writer Lars-Eric Nelson decribed it in a story five years later: "Isn't the Times wonderful? It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House." (Imus insists the line was said by a fictional character on his show; former media critic Philip Nobile says he heard the shock jock himself say it)

Ifill has written a pretty amazing column about this issue for her former employer in today's edition. When we talked, she pointed out one reason why Imus has gotten away with such remarks for years -- until the age of YouTube and his MSNBC show's growing popularity, there weren't many objective records of what he said.

"How do you prove it?" said Ifill, who was working at NBC when Nelson's column ran, and immediately asked her boss -- Washington bureau chief and Meet the Press host Tim Russert -- to allow her to stop appearing on Imus' show. "Who has a copy of a tape from a 1995 show -- except maybe him?"

She couldn't say why her old boss, Russert, still appears on Imus' show, given his history of such comments. "I have lots of thoughts, but no insights. I don't know any black journalists who appear on the show, and that should speak for itself."

Washington Post media critic Howard Kurtz, who Imus reportedly called "a boner-nosed, beanie-wearing Jew boy"  years ago, had a different reaction. In an email to me yesterday, Kurtz said he didn't think imus was a bigot.

"He engages in locker-room humor that sometimes goes over the line or, as in this case, obliterates it. What Imus said about the Rutgers women was offensive, insensitive and stupid, as he now recognizes. I've been watching a chastened man on the air who seems to understand that he must clean up his act, and his apologies seem to me to be sincere. He should be held accountable for his comments but they should also be weighed against his career and charitable fundraising."
 

And as for the boner-nosed comment? "I wasn't offended by what he said about me nine years ago, during a trumped-up feud, because he was trying to be funny and I'm fair game. The Rutgers women aren't fair game for that kind of abuse, which is what makes this much more serious."

Nobile, a former media critic for New York magazine who spent years chronicling Imus' racial humor, said the shock jock hasn't been honest in his apologies -- denying the Ifill comment and other insulting comments, while trying to use his charitable work and friendships with the powerful to minimize the damage.

Nobile said he contacted many black journalists who once appeared on Imus' show, including columnist Stanley Crouch and CBS News legend Ed Bradley, to convince them not to appear, given the humor Imus often applied. Now, he hopes Sharpton and officials from the National Association of Black Journalists who have spearheaded the protests against Imus, demand a meeting with executives from NBC and CBS Radio to gain assurances they will rein in the shock jock.

"If we can document his lying in the middle of his apology, then there's no reason to accept it," said Nobile. "He's trying to hide behind his charities and saying that this is humor."

Critics remain skeptical about the two-week suspensions imposed by NBC News and CBS Radio, concerned that the corporations are just hoping the whole controversy will blow over. Imus himself remained relatively contrite on his radio show this morning:

"I'll serve my suspension with as much dignity as I can," he said. "Am I trying to save my job? No. I also don't want this to be the final note -- it's been a pretty good career."   

Comments

[chris]

But seriously, why are some words and phrases allowed to be used by African Americans and not by whites? Isn't that quite similar to only allowing certain people to use a rest room or drinking fountain? Sounds all too familar. Stinking hypocrites!! LONG LIVE THE I-MAN. Don't worry, he'll be back in another form before you know it. Ha ha, you loose again!

[Eric T Clark]

Eric Deggan

Is it safe to come to the conclusion that there are many here who do not believe that racism is still a ever present problem in our society?

That is the conclusion I have come to after reading these posts.

[Eric T Clark]

Eric Deggan

Is it safe to come to the conclusion that there are many here who do not believe that racism is still a ever present problem in our society?

That is the conclusion I have come to after reading these posts.

[tom l]

Shining a light on what the I-Man is saying is one thing, but I just hope that some more attention will be paid by their corporate bosses to true hate mongers like Michael Savage, Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh. If this good comes out of this that would be great. Problem is, I am not hearing any of this except for Randi Rhoades on Air America. Imus does not have true hate in his heart like these other cretins do.

[Eric Deggans]

I want to thank everybody for posting such interesting responses. Even when I don't agree with you, you bring interesting points. But I wanted to make a few points.

First, black comics and rappers do use terms like ho and the n-word. But I will agree with Imus and say that context is everything. I've written pieces about the destrctuve effects of gangsta rap, but i've also written pieces noting that there are rappers who use these words to artistic effect.

So I don't think you can just look at a word and say no one can use it. but i do think you can look at the context in which Imus used the word -- and his more than 20-year-history of presenting race-based humor along similar lines.

Peopel have also criticized Al Shaprton and Jesse Jackson for speaking up on this, given their pasts. I'm not defending their past actions. I'm not saying they are great leaders, even now. But on this issues, in this case, they are making pwoerful points (although I don't agree that imushould be fired).

Finally, there is a realtively recent example of a black DJ losing his job for racist talk.

Peepe this item from Wikipedia:
Star Controversy

Troi Torain, who previously worked at Power 105's rival hip-hop station Hot 97 until he switched to Power 105, is known as "Star" from the Star & Buc Wild morning show. He had a running on-air feud with Hot 97's DJ Envy, whose real name is Raashaun Casey.

In a May 3, 2006 broadcast, Torain mentioned DJ Envy's wife and two children and threatened to find and sexually abuse Casey's 4-year old daughter. Torain said he would pay $500 to any listener who told him where the girl attended school. Torain, who is black, also used racial and sexual epithets about D.J. Envy's wife, Gia Casey, who is part Asian.

New York City Council members called for an investigation by law enforcement and the Federal Communications Commission. After the protests, Clear Channel Communications, the corporate owner of Power 105, suspended Torain. After reviewing transcripts of the broadcast, New York City law enforcement officials called Torain to police headquarters in Lower Manhattan to surrender his target pistol license and 9-millimeter handgun. Detectives from the Hate Crimes Unit charged him with endangering the welfare of a child.

Leaving the precinct house, Torain leaned back and grinned for television cameras, saying "You're looking at the new Lenny Bruce." He also told reporters about a new philosophy of his, which he called "objective hate," said that "life is beautiful," and that he was shopping for a book deal. Torains lawyer's defended his broadcasts on first amendment grounds.[1]

Star and Bucwild was replaced with Live With Big Tigger and Egypt on May 4, 2006

[Jim Harper]

All the debate about whether Imus is racist or sexist obscures a larger point. His paid comment about the Rutgers basketball players is just plain wrong-headed and gratuitously cruel, and for that he deserves to be excoriated.

On the other hand the racism/sexism charge is not just another outbreak of "political correctness." White folks who think it is should ponder how they'd feel if Imus had used a different stereotype. Imagine if the women's basketball team were all-white, and he called them a bunch of "blond sorority sluts."

Ugly and wrong, any way you phrase it. It's a shame that part of our media audience rewards and defends this sort of stuff -- and that a person could get paid for saying it.

... ifin you don't know, you butta aks somboday...

Just Write a check, Don... and all offensive feelings go away. That's Big Al mantra.

[Laura]

I think if these so called words were so offense how about everybody stop using them not just white people.

[HCB]

All the pointy heads trying to one up each other on why this is bad. At best it's stupid. Anyone who listens to Imus knows he's a jerk. Anybody who listens to Imus and is insulted by anything he says is a hypocrite - he makes his living like that. He's no different than the scandal sheets in the checkout line - ignore him the way you ignore the "Star"

More serious, I think, is the "gangsta rap" But, since the rappers don't give a rip what you think, they are not going to have Sharpton, et al yelling at them.

[KL Starks]

Whether it makes a huge difference or not, I'm so grateful that somebody is keeping watch.