My Evening With Hannity and Colmes Part II: The Media Matters Version

You know you've made it when Media Matters transcribes your words.

My infamous run-in with Hannity and Colmes has now been immortalized on the liberal media watchdog's web site, focusing on Alan Colmes' contention that Don Imus is a satirist whose racist humor should be condoned because its presented as a joke.

Near as I can tell, it's a pretty dead-on recounting of what went down, highlighting both Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes a attempts to turn the issue into a referendum on Chris Rock instead of looking at the substance of Imus' work. (isn't Colmes supposed to be a liberal who cares about issues like, say, stereotyping and sexism and anti-Semitism, anyway?) Here's Imus' original comment.

A sample:

COLMES: How long is the right amount of time?

DEGGANS: He was basically off for a few months -- he was basically off for a few months. He negotiated a very lucrative end to his contract with CBS Radio, and now he's returning to the air essentially without fully apologizing for what he actually did wrong.

COLMES: Well, first of all, he did apologize. He went on Al Sharpton's show and apologized. Al Sharpton accepts him back. Jesse Jackson accepts him back. The team that he allegedly insulted -- I would say "satirized" -- they accepted his apology. Why can't you?

DEGGANS: I think Don Imus hasn't really apologized for what he's done wrong. What he did wrong was build a 25- to 30-year broadcasting career on humor that's racist and that exaggerates stereotypes.

COLMES: Well, that's what satire is. But you call it racist --

DEGGANS: There's examples going back 15 years, 20 years, where he's called Gwen Ifill, who was then with The New York Times, a cleaning lady. He called another person of color who was an official a quota hire. He's called Howard Kurtz from Washington Post a "beanie-wearing, hook-nosed Jew." I mean, he's used the kind of humor that has been abandoned by other --

COLMES: He also goes after people from the South, on Oklahoma, Okies like he is. He goes after everybody. That's his act. Everybody knew that was his act. They knew that was his act when they hired him. It was in his contract. If they decided to act on letting him go because of those things, he ought to get a warning, which he didn't get, which is why he got a settlement.

And, again, what about the free marketplace? You don't like that kind of humor, you don't find it humorous, don't tune out [sic]. Other people have the opportunity to hear what he's got to say if they choose to listen. If advertisers choose to support it, and if ratings will substantiate his appearance, what's wrong with that?

[...]

DEGGANS: That's the mistake that you're making, is that you're boiling this down to one comment. This is not about one comment. This is about a 25- to 30-year history of cracking these kind of jokes.

What I find most interesting about this satire defense is that it's not a defense Imus himself used initially to explain his actions. What he said when the controversy first erupted was that he was being "thoughtless and stupid" by going after a group of talented students who were not public people. He never said he was playing a character or poking fun at the type of person who would use such language -- which is what a satire would presumably involve.

Seems obvious to me that those who want to like Imus will grab any straw to excuse his actions and those of us who find him objectionable feel our assessments have been confirmed a thousand times from his own mouth.

At any rate, if you didn't get to see our little conflict, surf to the Media Matters site and check it out there...

Comments

I'd congratulate you but you already did that. Attaboy might also be taken the wrong way too.

[channelXRFR]

Imus never meant to hurt these girls, his response was consistent with this view. Once he realized what that he had hurt them, he apologized and they accepted his apology. Lets move on, leave these girls alone.

Imus' stock in trade is satire. Playing a character and poking fun at people is what Imus does. He has always represented himself as an entertainer, his audience understands that he is an entertainer and not a news personality.

CBS contracted with him to perform as an entertainer. The employment agreement between CBS and Imus explicitly and in detail defined the elements of Imus' performances in the preamble of the agreement. CBS paid Imus $20M for breaching this agreement.

Imus as a satirist is not "grabbing at a straws" as postulated. Imus as satirist is a fact supported by over 30 years of performances and memorialized in the Imus CBS employment contract.

NHH Satire: Joke is an old guy talking "Hip-Hop"!

[Parents of Autistics support Don Imus]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/imus-autism-and-america_b_45864.html

[Anne B]

You never addressed my questions to you in the previous article: What law did Imus violate? What FCC regulation did he break?

He hurt someone's feelings. When you find out you have hurt someone's feelings, you apologize. That's what happened. He apologized several times, and to the Rutgers girls in person, at some considerable effort, because he obviously felt that was important. They have said they would like to move on and didn't ask for him to be fired.

So you would think that would be sufficient. But, no, people like you want to drain his blood. I mean, I believe you must be projecting every evil and racist act over the past 500 years on his back. I have come to the belief that one should not apologize because it is never enough and seems to be as the smell of blood to the shark. Kick a man while he's down -- don't let him have a job ever -- persecution.

I listened to one hip-hop song and in that one song there was every four-letter word ever uttered, the B word, the P word, N word something about half white, half black B -- in that one song compacted in a few minutes -- and some references and words several times. Quite a shock, actually. But I will tell you I don't care what is in these songs because I don't listen to them. It just seems to me it paints a bad picture and impression of a culture. And it doesn't seem to be meant as humor but as glorifying this type of language and lifestyle.

So in light of this, explain to me how an old white man saying NHH at 6:15 in the morning on cable tv has caused so much consternation.

[djtr]

"Seems obvious to me that those who want to like Imus will grab any straw to excuse his actions and those of us who find him objectionable feel our assessments have been confirmed a thousand times from his own mouth."

yes.. i like imus. you don't. yes he says things that are objectionable. who doesn't? he has apologized. apoloygy accepted.

have you ever listened any lenghth of time to imus?

what are your thoughts on his positive portrail of black culture? in the music he plays (blues, hip-hop, sacred)

what about his support for harold ford jr.?

what about rev. g.e. patterson?

what about martin luther king?

[MWJ]

So Eric, what is your favorite program? Movie? Book? What kind of music do you listen to? Just curious since you're judging us.

[Oscar]

The more this goes on the more tired it gets. I swear the biggest mistake Imus made was to apologize. If he just went on ala Cheney and Bush and refused to own up to it, things would be over now.

He apologized, and that is not enough for some people. I doubt a pound of flesh will suffice either. But hats off to you Eric. I wouldn't go on H&C for anything. At least you tried to get your point across.

[Bruce]

You know you have made it when your on Media Matters? Are you Nuts. The N.A.B. J. put you on that show because they knew whoever was representing the NABJ was going to be eaten alive. And Colmes did it. To put it simply, you were the sacrificial lamb. That N.O.W. women didn't fair too well either.

But frankly Mr. Deggan you made no senses. As an alleged journalist do you see the hypocrisy of your group? Or are you entrenched in the (Poor Me) attitude.

No one cares who you were or what you stood for. All we cared about is your were silented. As Citadel Broadcasting will do to the NABJ, Al Sharpton and N.O.W.

Farid Suleman is not a man who is threatened by those types of people. He has more to gain by leaving you all outside in the freezing cold. Because you will never get in to talk to WABC 770. Bring a warm coat.

[me]

NAJB is in bed with Media Matters. We all new that.

[me]

Oops I meant to say NABJ is in bed with Media Matters. Who care if one quotes the other.

[Harley]

I saw your "little conflict" LIVE. I don't need to go to Media Matters to see it! Trust me, you have not "made it" when you are on Media Matters. You have been USED, my brother. I will say it again, DON IMUS IS NOT A RACIST! Some of my colleagues and I left examples of this on your previous blog on this issue. Did you read them or are you content to blindly jump on the "I HATE IMUS" bandwagon? If you watched his show, you knew what kind of person he was. He would OFTEN REPEAT the things that were close to his heart! He went ON and ON about Walter Reed and those sick kids! Sometimes, I wanted him to talk about something else. That's how his apology came out. He kept saying he was sorry BECAUSE HE WAS! He was HURT by his foolish comments! He was trying to make a joke and it went wrong! You pulled up all of the quotes to prove that he is a racist. Why don't you pull up some of his tapes that show his passion towards those WOUNDED SOLDIERS AND SICK KIDS! Several people who wronged our WOUNDED SOLDIERS at Walter Reed were FIRED due to Imus' passion toward this issue. Pull up the tapes that feature HAROLD FORD, JR's MANY, MANY guest appearances on the Imus in the Morning Show. Pull up the tapes where he played DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING'S I HAVE A DREAM SPEECH. Pull up the tapes where he plays REV. G.E. PATTERSON'S SERMONS. Pull up the tapes where he talks about helping AFRICAN-AMERICAN youth. What do you guys want? Blood? PEACE!

[Anne B]

You have made a big mistake. You have characterized Imus as some evil person. You have joined Media Matters, NABJ, and NOW in a huge case of character assasination. Imus should sue you all for maligning his character and reputation, make you prove exactly what actions or deeds he has done to deserve such persecution.

You know, to be called a racist is a terrible accusation to make about a person and can cause great emotion pain, especially when it is a lie. Sounds like grounds for a lawsuit to me.

[JLS]

Judging from the lack of coverage of NABJ and their supposed opposition by the media, this story is over. Nobody is buying it anymore. The man has apologized over and over and the majority are okay he's coming back.

[Harley]

HEY ERIC, DOES THIS SOUND LIKE SOMETHING A RACIST WOULD DO?

The morning after the death in late March of the singing, soulful Bishop G. E. Patterson, the famous black pastor of the Church of God in Christ in Memphis , his widow, Louise Patterson, called Don Imus on the air. Expressing a teary and heartfelt gratitude, she revealed that Imus had contributed over time to the Bishop's church and assorted causes. The work of Bishop Patterson had often been featured on the Imus in the Morning program.

[PTBartman]

A link to the clip referenced by Harley.

http://imustruth.typepad.com/index/march-22-2007-louise-patt.htm

In case you missed it/ignored it the last time I posted it.

[mike]

It's amusing to hear you boil this down to whether or not someone "likes Imus." I don't like him at all, but I despise this poor me victim BS that comes from the black community. Grow up!!! Take a look at ice cube, one of the biggest black box office draws. This guy used to make the most overtly racist anti-white records you can imagine. Was he ever asked to apologize? Has he apologized? Did he "do something wrong" as you say? Or do we just gloss over that, excuse it, and let bygones be bygones? Give me a break!! You are a professional victim filled with phony indignation! Maybe next week you'll let go of being victimized by whitey, and do a story on the racist little uhuru-affiliated radio station right there in your back yard. Since you're so concerned with racist sentiment on the radio and all....

[Eric Deggans]

Thank you all for bringing so many hits to my blog.

I have been traveling -- I'm in Georgia right now at a conference convened by the academic department which administers the Peabody awards. So I haven't been around to reply to all the pro-Imus hysteria.

I guess my bottom line is, as much as you might try to shift the blame to Ice Cube or Chris Rock or Snoop dogg or whomever, it doesn't address Imus' actions.

I'm sure Imus has helped a lot of black people individually. I'm sure there's lots of black people he thinks of as friends and who are friendly to him. It doesn't change the fact that he has cracked a lot of racist jokes on the air over many, many years before people finally had enough.

Has Chris Rock had a 30-year career? Or Ice Cube? Imus has had a long time to do what he does in public before people finally drew a line.

And i'm not sure what planet ALS is living on, but i have seen coverage of NABJ's recent imus statements in the associated press, newsday, new york post, editor and publisher magazine, ms. magazine, CNN, MSNBC and fox news to name a few outlets.

So apologize and defend Imus much as you want. If he comes back to radio doing the same shtick as always, I think he's going to face a challenge...

[channelxrfr]

Referring to "Ice Cube or Chris Rock or Snoop Dogg or whomever" is not to place blame. The point being much of black culture has made it into mainstream America and is entertaining and acceptable to a vast multi-ethnic audience.

The H&C debate was lost, primarily because the proposition of journalists demanding censorship is fundamentally flawed. But it was also lost on technical merit, weak facts and counterpoints which miss the mark by a wide margin.

It would be a mistake to equate media coverage with success. Comments posted on MSM, Liberal, Conservative and even African American sites and blogs run decidedly against the NABJ demands. The public for the most part interprets the NABJ position as censorship and blacklisting.

"The only people outraged over Imus are the people who are always outraged!" Michael Harrison Talker Magazine

[Doug]

I think that it's a comical assertion that there are "winners and losers" on Hannity & Colmes.

[Melanie]

Doug, you obviously didn't see the particular show in question because H&C won the debate hands down. They called it a debate before they started. Debate means to argue opposing points so yes, there is a winner and loser.

NABJ and NOW embarrassed themselves and Eric is obviously trying to save face here. Eric's argument was that Mr. Imus hadn't apologized - WHAT? The man apologized over and over and over. The man met with the team after he was fired to apologize to their faces.

The woman from NOW was pathetic. I'm a woman and she in no way speaks for any women I know. I couldn't even figure out her point if she even had one. Imus has a legion of female fans and we would not be supporting a lunatic sexist.

Eric - I'm glad you finally admit Imus told 'jokes.' He told jokes at everyone's expense - it was part of what he was paid to do. I find it sad you are so closed minded and unable to see past your own prejudices.

[Rich]

Eris....help us out. You know this isn't about Imus. It's about the culture that led all of us to this point. You're a journalist. Ask a question: What circumstances led us to this discussion? Follow up: What circumstances can legitimately change our opinions?

[Melanie]

Eric. You should read this by Jason Whitlock - how hiphop is ruining the NFL and I say the NBA too

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7343980

[Doug]

Wow, I guess I just got trounced. I'm 0-1 here on Eric's blog. Melanie wins because she watched the show and kept a scorecard and I didn't watch it.

Actually I never watch the show, so you could be right. Eric and the other "guest" may have been buffoons who were ill equipped to defend their positions against Hannity and Colmes. If that what you say, I'll have to take your word for it, because I do not watch H&C. I've seen the kind of theater they do and it really doesn't look like "debating" to me, especially if they go into all the kind of "yeah, but what about Chris Rock" and "oh yeah, but Ice Cube said such and such" type moves. I don't think that's debating, but judging from the posts here, the weight of numbers is against me and I've lost again. Oh well, 0-2.

[channelXRFR]

Perspective from Marty Davis a fan of Eric note she is not an I-Fan!

"The excellent St. Petersburg (FL) Times media critic, Eric Deggans, submitted himself to Fox's Hannity & Colmes Imus segment last night...."

http://chickaboomer.blogspot.com/2007/10/al-quaeda-sharpton.html

[Melanie]

Doug, H&C rarely agree on anything so this particular show was very unusual - both of them being on the same side, pro-Imus. Alan Colmes supported Imus and now he's getting bashed by Media Matters. Good libs like Colmes are not supposed to support Imus because he doesn't support Hill. Guy had the courage of his convictions and I'm a new fan.

[Rich]

Eric: Your opinion please.
http://us.altermedia.info/news-of-interest-to-white-people/the-imusnappy-headed-ho-scandal_2115.html

[Rich]

It's not about Imus...it's about two distinct points of view: ONE is PRO-censorship... the other against censorship. Eric is a journalist...and to other journalists, it anti-american to consider censoring free speach.

[Harley]

I'm sure Imus has helped a lot of black people individually. I'm sure there's lots of black people he thinks of as friends and who are friendly to him. It doesn't change the fact that he has cracked a lot of racist jokes on the air over many, many years before people finally had enough.

SO DO YOU STILL THINK HE'S A RACIST? BY YOUR OWN WORDS HE HAS BLACK FRIENDS AND HAS HELPED BLACK FOLKS. SO IS HE A RACIST? IT WAS IMUS' JOB TO BE A SHOCK JOCK! IT'S LIKE YOU GUYS ARE PENALIZING HIM FOR SOMETHING HE IS PAID TO DO! WHERE WERE YOU BEFORE APRIL? HAVE YOU BEEN FULL OF VENOM FOR MR. IMUS FOR A LONG TIME AND JUST WAITING FOR A CHANCE TO POUNCE ON HIM? 'CAUSE IF HE WAS SO BAD YALL LET HIM SLIP FOR 30 YEARS!!! HAVE YOU WRITTEN ANY ARTICLES ABOUT HIM THROUGHOUT THESE 30 YEARS??? ARE YOU THAT SENSITIVE? I HATE ALL OF THIS PC CRAP!

Has Chris Rock had a 30-year career? Or Ice Cube? Imus has had a long time to do what he does in public before people finally drew a line.

IT DOESN'T TAKE 30 YEARS TO DO DAMAGE IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY! HAVE THE RAPPERS AND YOUNG COMEDIANS THAT ARE OUT TODAY BEEN PERFORMING FOR 30 YEARS????? WHEN IS THE NABJ, NOW, JESSE, AND SHARPTON GOING TO DRAW A LINE ON THAT FILTH? OR BY YOUR LOGIC SHOULD THEY WAIT ANOTHER 30 YEARS? I DON'T SEE WHERE YOUR LOGIC FITS!

AND DON'T PATRONIZE US! I DON'T CARE WHERE YOU ARE OR WHAT YOU'RE DOING! HOPEFULLY, YOU'VE HAD TIME TO DO A LITTLE REASERCH AND RE-ASSESS YOUR OPINION ON MR. IMUS AND WHAT KIND OF PERSON HE IS! I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT ICE CUBE AND/OR CHRIS ROCK, BUT YOU ARE GIVING THEM PASSES AND HOLDING IMUS TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD DUE TO THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN AND I DON'T THINK THAT IS FAIR! PEACE!

[Harley]

I guess my bottom line is, as much as you might try to shift the blame to Ice Cube or Chris Rock or Snoop dogg or whomever, it doesn't address Imus' actions.

OKAY LET'S TALK ABOUT MR. IMUS' ACTIONS! ALL OF THEM! BUMP EVERYBODY ELSE!

[Harley]

Sources: "Bigfoot" lands on his feet
Sources have emailed to let us know Imus' former MSNBC producer Tom Bowman is headed for a new gig at the Weekend Edition of the NBC Nightly News.
Bowman was the executive producer for the television side of Imus in the Morning. Imus nicknamed him "Bigfoot," often mentioning him by name when MSNBC screwed things up. Bowman has remained at MSNBC since Imus' firing in April.
Bowman's name surfaced a few times during the Rutgers controversy after Jesse Jackson charged MSNBC "practices the discrimination that Imus peddles." At the time, the website TVNewser.com pointed out that Bowman is African-American. CLICK HERE FOR LINK
Also back in April, columnist Pat Buchanan mentioned how he liked Bowman and Imus' other producers, in a column defending Imus, titled: "The Imus Lynch Party" CLICK HERE FOR LINK
Bowman's name can still be found on MSNBC.com under the credits for Imus in the Morning. CLICK HERE FOR LINK

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/msnbc/imus_slur_jackson_says_msnbc_practices_the_discrimination_that_imus_peddles_56702.asp?c=rss

[Anne B]

"has cracked a lot of racist jokes" you say, over 30 years. So what?

I was for a two-week suspension for Imus. Imus felt bad about it, I felt bad about it, I think all Imus fans felt bad about. But that was before I got serious about this and listened to the hip-hop language that has actually set the stage for some old white guy shock jock to borrow a couple words. Now, I don't even think he should have been suspended

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YejWqS0ufUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO5jtG-2dR4

You can defend it if you want to, but I have never used this language in all my silly old white life. But now that I know black people use the language continuously and to each other, it does not make sense to me that I couldn't use it. That is discriminatory right there. Rap music is now a part of America and the diversity that we at least say we want. You can't then say "whites can't say it".

So by this foolish argument, you took down an advocate for blacks and others, and you are slowly losing me, too.

Because now that everybody has had their day, Imus has been brought down, now you want to kick him to death. I just don't go for that.

I watched a video of a young black girl speaking about how Imus words had hurt her. I was trying my best to see her point of view. But in the final analysis she was saying that she has a preconceived idea that any white person actually thinks, "oh, there's a N" when she walks in the room. Now, that sounds paranoid to me because how can she know what I am thinking when she walks in the room. One cannot overcome being a victim by becoming a victim. Why let what a white person says or thinks matter at all. Just say it ain't so and move on up. She also said something about blacks who had made it, didn't "care about her struggles". Well, now get this: Do you think whites who have made it care about my struggles? Jesus, get real and start thinking out of the box and refuse to be a victim.

So you and others who make the argument that all the ills of the black race are embodied in one old white DJ, is really hurting your cause, IMO.

[PTBartman]

Your right eric, Your's and the NABJ's pro-Censorship position has gotten phenomanal coverage from the Associated Press, Newsday, New York Post, Editor and Publisher Magazine, Ms. Magazine, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News to name a few outlets.

Just remember we're laughing at you not with you.

[Anne B]

"I'm sure Imus has helped a lot of black people individually. I'm sure there's lots of black people he thinks of as friends and who are friendly to him. It doesn't change the fact that he has cracked a lot of racist jokes on the air over many, many years before people finally had enough."

Before people finally had enough -- now, who are these "people"?

Now, we all know this was a manufactured event, Eric. We know how Media Matters employed little Ryan Chiachiere to listen and record every airing of the Imus in the Morning Show, and how it took two solid years for him to finally find the two/three words heard around the world. Then your NABJ rushed in, along with NOW, to take it to the ready and willing media (the same media who now broadcasts your same lame attempts to keep Imus fired) to make sure that everybody with ears was offended by these deplorable, disguting words "The Great and Awful, just Awful" Imus made in the wee morning hours when only the faithful were watching.

So it was a "production" not an actual event where those who actually heard it were outraged. So we know how it happened, Eric.

Oh, Eric, the show was actually great. I loved it, and I loved Imus and all the crew. It was a truly creative show and such a relief from the canned stuff you usually get on tv. It had everything, news, live music, comedy, sports.....And now I can't watch it because it's not ON. More than six months now. And I miss it sooooo much. It's unfair and unjust and mean and hateful and selfish for anyone to try to keep it from me any longer. I am hearbroken.

[Bruce]

You are becoming as bad as Al Sharpton. Hope you don't have a task problem like he does.

All you love to blog about is Imus, Imus, Imus.

Get with the correct issues of the day. Like the election. The possibility of counting Florida in the delegate count for HRC?

I like you Eric. But this is CRAZY,

[Bruce]

Make that Tax not TASK. MY BAD!

[Eric Deggans]

Dude, you really need to read the rest of my blog. This post is from OCTOBER.

[Bruce]

First of all Eric I am not a dude. Secondly and most important "Imus" never said Gwen Ifill was a cleaning lady.

Would you like Martin Garbus contacting you?

Watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElNN9ybVlOo

[Eric Deggans]

You might want to listen to the clip you linked to yourself. Gwen Ifill said to me what she said on Meet the Press, which is that one of Imus' producers offered to apologize to her years ago for the slur. I echo her question -- if Imus didn't say the slur, then what was he apologizing for?

what I know is that two journalists have said that he cracked a joke about the New York Times sending the cleaning lady to cover the White House when Ifill was chosen as White House correspondent. I have seen other accounts where Imus claims it was a character on his show who said that as a joke.

But it's not really a joke. What it was, was a reflection of some of the racist stereotyping Imus indulged on his show before the Rutgers insult.

And finally, "dude" is a slang term which could refer to anyone. And it doesn't really belie my core point -- which is that the blog item you're referring to was written in October.

I believe the last time I wrote about Don Imus on this blog was early April. So I'm not the one who is fixated on him....