For a serious Prince fan like me, it was the perfect interview.
I had secured some talk time with Lisa Coleman, the keyboard-playing half of the songwriting and performing duo Wendy and Lisa -- two proteges of the Purple Genius himself.
I was such a fan that back in college, when I was playing drums in a band that had a record deal with Motown, I wrote them a letter offering to be their drummer -- like a kid asking for Santa Claus to swing by his house for milk and cookies (I got back a publicity photo with a hastily scribbled signature).
I got Stuck in the '80s guru Steve Spears to let me conduct the interview in the podcast studio, so we had an excellent recording of it and it went amazingly well. Turns out, she and partner Wendy Melvoin, who joined the conversation from afar, washing dishes or something in the background, had done some studio work with a friend who was the guitarist in that Motown band I talked about, and Coleman talked candidly about everything from the breakup of her and Melvoin's 20-year romantic relationship to their work scoring TV shows such as Heroes and Crossing Jordan (the one question she wouldn't answer: Who's crazier -- Prince or Me'shell Ndege Ocello?)
But I never found a good time to pull together a story from the interview, and eventually the material seemed to get too old to publish. But I've always regretted not getting it out to the public in some form, so I'm publishing it here, during a week when I'm off work and trying not to do too much.
Here's the edited transcript. Hope it's as much fun to read as it was to create:
Eric: Of course, I noticed when I started watching Heroes 'cause I’m the TV critic here, I saw that you guys were scoring it and I think, for some people who haven’t really been paying attention, to them it may seem like you went straight from Prince to scoring TV shows. So could you talk a little bit about how you got involved with scoring TV and particularly how you got involved with scoring Heroes?
Lisa: Okay, sure. It actually, after Prince and the Revolution broke up, we didn’t get into scoring for a while, although with Prince we did, you know, make a couple of films … worked on a couple of films, one of them being Purple Rain, which we actually wanted to score at that time because I … this is Lisa speaking …. I used to do string arrangements for our band – you know, cellos and violins and things, so I was kind of into that already, but the film company felt more comfortable having, you know, hiring a composer. There is a little bit of score in Purple Rain. I’m sure people don’t even really realize that.
E: Yeah. That would have sounded cool if you guys had done it.
L: Yeah, it would have been fun. They actually did use one of my string pieces at the very end of the film when Prince is running after Apollonia or something, and there’s some kind of crazy string thing that’s going on behind it. But anyway, after that we played with lots of different artists. We worked with Seal, we worked with K.D. Lang, I mean, a whole kind of array of different people, and Neil Finn, who’s a great songwriter. He lives in New Zealand and we traveled all over the world with him and did a bunch of things. So when we were working with Seal, I think it was on … we did two or three of his first … the first three, I guess, of his albums. We were working with Trevor Horn on those, and Trevor was approached by Michelle Pfeiffer for a song for Dangerous Minds, and he was just learning and hearing our first album, the first Wendy and Lisa album, and he liked a song on it called This Is the Life. So he presented that to Michelle Pfeiffer, who really liked it. So, anyway, to make a long story short, we ended up scoring that film because they didn’t like the score that they were getting from another composer and they thought, given our background with Prince, it might be better suited for the film 'cause it was, you know, about gangs and kind of in the urban plight film.
E: Yeah, you know that black vibe...
L: Yeah, you know, being that we’re two black chicks (laughter), we could really get that together. It’s really funny. I mean, it’s great, you know, and we can totally do that and it is part of who we are. It’s just funny. I mean, people have literally met us sometimes and we walk in and they see these two white chicks walking in, and they’re like, oh, we thought you were black (laughs). Like, oh, well, we are.
E: Didn’t they look at MTV at all in the ‘80s? I mean …
L: Oh, my God (laughs). Well, you know, speaking of MTV, we weren’t even allowed on MTV at first. It was all like, you know, white hair bands.
E: Oh, yeah, I remember that.
L: So anyway, that was our foray into film scoring and I guess from there we just, you know, kind of dabbled, did a few films … again, like Soul Food and, you know, black films (laughter). You know, it’s funny that we’re doing Heroes now because it’s so different, you know. I mean, musically it’s something completely other … I think it kind of matches the subject matter of the show, which is very supernatural and, you know, world music meets outer world music.
E: So, I just wrote a piece about how there are no theme songs on TV anymore, and so scoring Heroes, for example, I mean, you have this really recognizable snippet of music that plays when the show starts, but it’s not really a theme. I mean, does that bum you out at all that you don’t get to actually write a theme song, like The Brady Bunch or something like that?
L: Yeah, it does, and it was funny when they asked for a theme at one point because, you know, when we did the pilot there was this whole opening … the first act was almost entirely scored and so we had to write kind of several themes to present the show, you know. We were introducing Peter, who was standing on the edge of a roof and you didn’t know if he was committing suicide or … we didn’t know what was going on – what is this show about – so that was kind of cool in a way because, you know, we could … we had a lot of opportunities musically. I’ll just put it that way. So then, you know, a few shows in, they decided, okay, well, there has to be like a title card where we, you know, where every week they do a thing and then they show Heroes, blah-blah-blah. And when they asked for the theme, we were like oh, okay, great, we can do a theme. How long do you think it should be? And they said, 10 seconds. (laughter)...So that is really a challenge. Talk about a challenge 'cause it’s like, okay, how do we make 10 seconds be really Impacting and memorable and …
E: So how did you?
L: Well, we actually took a piece of the opening we had done on the pilot that we thought was really striking. And there was this big chord, and the voice. There’s this singer … this singer Shankar that we worked with. You probably know that.
E: Yeah, yeah. I’m a huge Peter Gabriel fan too, so …
L: Yeah, exactly. So he’s that guy, that Peter Gabriel guy. He’s amazing and we knew that if we just used his voice … because we had decided … by that point it was very easy to decide that his voice was gonna be a huge part of the signature of the entire show. And whenever we use his voice, it signifies the power, this otherworldly, supernatural thing that is happening to these people. All these people are discovering these powers that they have. And it’s most always a surprise to them and they’ll do something and then they’re just like, oh, my God, what was that? And that’s when you hear Shankar’s voice. It’s always … because we thought that that was the best way to represent all of mankind, in a way, because it was a human voice, you know? There was a kind of a search in the beginning to decide how do we score this show because there are characters from all over the world. We’ve got, you know, a Japanese guy, an Indian guy, you know, a girl from Texas, you know, just all these different elements. What’s gonna tie them all together? And, you know, pretty obvious – the human voice does that 'cause we’re all human. So we found this guy Shankar, who happened to be working in the very same building downstairs with a friend of ours, and we just would see each other in the hall and then … I think our engineer mentioned, why don’t you ask Shankar? Like, oh, my God, that’s it. Eureka!
E: So I do have to ask, you know, the obligatory Prince questions, so …
L: Okay, no problem.
E: But there seems to be like a love-hate thing with a lot of people who worked with him for a long time.
L: Yeah.
E: Is that true for you guys, too?
L: No. I mean (laughs) … no, I just hate him. (laughter)
E: Well, I appreciate your candor.
L: I can only say that because …
E: I now have a lead to my story.
L: No, we totally love him. We both love him so much it’s like … it’s stupid. And he is not an easy boy to love sometimes. He is crazy, yes. I’m sorry … you can quote me. I’ve said crazy. And we’ve been through so much together with him and we still communicate, we still come back together all the time. And, you know, I guess you could say it has gone through periods of love-hate but I think we’re always gonna love each other. I mean, we really did go through a lot together. We spent … (Wendy says something out of earshot) I need to really have patience for the man. I mean, and it’s true. He always knows he can always get us … ah, damn it, you know. He’ll just, like, you know …
E: Right.
L: Even to this day, he sends tracks. Like, nowadays, he can like e-mail a track, a pro-tools file or something like that and “will you put the guitar part on it?” (laughter) “Okay.” “Are you gonna pay me?” (laughter) Like, no.
E: And if I write something that becomes like a hook, will I get publishing?
L: No. (laughter) No, but we get to talk about you in interviews, nanna, nanna, nan-na.
E: Yeah, so the confidentiality agreements have expired.
L: Oh, man, I never honored that thing anyway.
E: So, now, you guys, your plot in Purple Rain, I mean, for a lot of people that’s a real touchstone. You know, people remember that from the movie, and so was that art imitating life or did life wind up imitating art later, when you guys eventually left?
L: That’s a good question. I would say that both actually are true because … I mean, now, that all these years have gone by, it seems like it’s happened repeatedly, so it seems even more true (laughter). Like, back then, it had only been five years or something like that, so it was like only kinda true. And he actually, you know … he actually really did count on Wendy and I for a lot of stuff, and he didn’t really make that a secret, and he wanted us to be his spokespeople, especially Wendy. He really counted on her for all the interviews and things like that because she was very charismatic and energetic and young and a little firecracker, and he really loved her to go out there. It was like, you go, you go talk, you go do, you go accept the awards, you know, stuff like that.
E: Right. She accepted the Grammy, right?
L: Yeah.
E: His first Grammy.
L: Yeah, so, you know, so that was kinda nice and he always was really gracious and everything, so I don’t know … and we were just so young, you know. Now it’s just kind of like I wish we had had a better business sense or something because, you know, it’s only reflected in our love-hate relationship and not really in our bank account (laughs). And, you know, the same goes for him. His business wasn’t very tidy for himself, so he’s always going up against it and then going out and charging a million dollars a night and then making it all back, you know. So we were all young and foolish when we could have been a little more savvy and planned things better.
E: It feels like pop music is sort of filled with these American Idol-, Hannah Montana-type creations and the days when you had folks who kinda came up through a scene and paid some dues and were real musicians, you know, just less and less of that these days.
L: I know. It kinda surprises me because I always felt like we were kind of pioneering some ground and that there would probably be this whole new generation of amazing kids … and a lot of girls. I thought, you know, oh, there’s gonna be some amazing girls coming up, you know? And there are some but I think that the industry is so polarized at this point, really all you do see are the American Idol kids and, you know, and the other people who are trying to get bands together and make records and stuff, there’s kinda no place for them to go other than there’s My Space and that sort of thing. So you have to just look for it yourself. It’s not really presented the way it was, you know, a while ago.
E: I agree. I mean, you guys, you seem like you had this whole ethic of kinda girl-power music that, for one reason or another, just did not break through like people thought it would.
L: Yeah, I know. I don’t know if it was timing or what, but it just didn’t like connect or the problem again with just being black and, you know, they’re trying to keep a brother down. (laughter)..It’s a black thing (laughter). Again, it was like that timing of, like, with the relatives, a perfect example. We had just been signed to Virgin Worldwide and, you know, then all of a sudden, Virgin was sold and like all these changes happened, and we got lost. And then nobody knew what to do with us and thought, are you guys a funk band or an acoustic … what are you? They didn’t know quite what to do with us.
E: If you and Wendy were black, I felt like you would have gotten a fairer shake from the record industry.
L: You know, I know, I know. I’ve had that thought, which is very odd, you know.
E: It is. They don’t know what to do with white folks who want to play, you know, quote, unquote, black music.
L: Yeah.
E: You have to be behind the scenes, basically.
L: Yeah. (pictures courtesy of NBC publicity, Wendy and Lisa publicity)
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