Episode #103 recap: Final table deals

MAIN TOPIC

What do you do when you're at the final table, or the endgame of a satellite, and you're offered a deal? Or you're the one making the offer? Fasso joined us to talk about this delicate part of the game that doesn't show up in rules. Click here to listen to the show.

There are plenty of things to consider, from chip stacks, to the reasons you're playing, to the value of your time, to the blind levels to the abilities of your opponent(s). Some pros, like Barry Greenstein told us last week, say they never take deals. If you're not playing to win, why are you playing? Others, like Andy Bloch, who listener Blazman interviewed, get into the intricacies of the deals.

Fasso revisited the book Take Me to the River, which offers some really good anecdotes on dealmaking in satellites.

Listener Gambit offers us this formula to figure out the proper payment in a deal:

The payout amount for any player can be calculated using the following formula:
d(p) = deal amount for player p
c(p) = chip count of player p
c = total chips in play
t = total prize pool
m = minimum guaranteed payout (scheduled payout of the next player to bust)
n = number of players remaining
d(p) = (c(p) / c) * (t - (m * n)) + m

Here's an example with math ...
d(Player A) = (6000 / 10000) * (350 - (50 * 3)) + 50
= (.6) * (350 - 150) + 50
= .6 * 200 + 50
= 120 + 50
= 170

And if that's enough math for you, be sure to check out the this great stuff from Barry Greenstein's Web site. It's a chapter from his book Ace on the River that didn't make it into the book.

OTHER TOPICS

WORLD SERIES SEASON: The World Series of Poker begins today. Good luck to every member of the Ante Up Nation that will make the trek to Vegas over the next six weeks, and let us know how you're doing. Some of the final tables will be broadcast live on the Internet pay-per-view, with the players sequestered. And check out USA Today's great special section on the WSOP published today.

MICHAEL CRAIG ON NEXT WEEK'S SHOW: The author of The Professor, the Banker and the Suicide King, which chronicled Andy Beal's heads-up matches against the game's best players, has a new book out that uses FullTilt pros to talk strategy about a number of games. Post your questions here. Should be a great show.

HAND OF THE WEEK

We asked on Fasso to come on the show to give us his perspective on the hand that got Chris booted from Gambit's tournament. More than 70 comments had been made on the hand already on this blog, so this was a way for us to break it down with all three of us and hopefully, make it the final word. One guess on who actually got the final word.

- SCOTT

Comments

[Michael Paul]

I don't know if the Podcast from Itunes has this, but I downloaded the MP3 and from 5:21 until 8:16 I get nothing but dead air. There was also some around the 9:00 mark for a few seconds. I have'nt listened to it all yet of course so I don't know if there's more.

Not sure if it's a problem with your file or on my end. I'm playing through windows media player as I have for the past couple of months and have never had a problem before.

Michael

[Sharkey]

SAME HERE, I AM LISTENING THROUGH MY IPOD

[Mr Donkee]

yep there are dead spots in itunes too.

[Erwin Blonk]

me too, no iTunes.

[bitguru]

hmmm, my dead air was between 5:00 and 5:16 (itunes) weird

[I Like Ike]

iTunes here... but I have drop outs all over the place. 10 so far in the first 9 minites ranging from 10sec to 50 sec long.

[blazman]

Cutting out just long enough to make me forget that I am listening and then it scares the crap out of me when it comes back on.

-Blaz

[Jonas Leisner]

Hey Guys,

Another good show! Looking forward to the complete version.

Just a comment on a small thing in your discussion about the hand of the week. You briefly touch on something that i've always wanted to chime in on whenever you've talked about it. It's about when and how to play hands like the 89s that Fasso used to burn Chris' toast.

Fasso mentions that if it had been a limit game and 3 or 4 players had limped, it would be a raising hand. And iv'e often heard you guys say that you can raise these hands preflop in order to have the pot odds to draw at your hand later. I think this is a flawed strategy though.

If you raise, yes you will have better odds if you flop a draw. But, you will have paid twice as much for these improved odds! Suited connectors rarely connect well with the flop, so the idea is to see the flops cheaply! It can not be right to double the price of seing the flop - think of all those times you miss and have payed two bets instead of one. In the long run, the bets you lose when you miss, will be much more than those you win when you flop a draw and go on to win the hand. Don't waste money artificially 'inflating' the odds!

As youve also talked about you can raise to disguise your hand, a different, and i think, better reason to raise, and one that works much better in no limit where you can steal more pots after the flop.

Have always wanted to nitpick about that point ;-) I think its an important one, especially since suited connectors can be hugely profitable in limit if you play them right.

- Jonas (Ante up nation Denmark)

[Gambit]

I agree with you Jonas.

[boil dunce son]

I loved the line
Scott comiserating with Chris
"You're using third level thinking"
Fasso
" Thats no good against a reptilian brain"

[Swish]

I deleted my itunes version and downloaded directly from this site to my ipod, and so far it sounds good, no cut outs (not finished yet). just thought I'd mention that - unless someone fixed the podcast, then never mind!

[Erwin Blonk]

Scott, you were right on that karma comment, at least in my opinion.
For all intents and purposes it means cause and effect and that´s what you get here: it causes you to think about certain things and influences your mind (or mindset). Poker, at least to me, is instant karma, for what you think and do changes everything all the time. The one that keeps the clearest mind has the best chance of winning.