BLOG BATTLE! Off the Wall vs. Thriller

Sure, super-sized Stuck in the '80s stud Steve Spears and I look scarily alike. Two muscle-ripped dudes with fashion-forward hair and prodigious cheez-eating skills. And yes, people think we get along all the time and agree on everything.

But if you look beyond the Funyun crumbs and killer moves with the ladies, you'll see Steve and I are actually worlds apart. For instance, he's a dumbass. Just the other day, as we fed fried shrimp to each other at Long John Silver's, he said "Thriller is Michael Jackson's best album." In response, I (1) recoiled in horror (2) spit tartar sauce in his eye and (3) shouted demonstratively, "What? Are you some kind of monster? I feel like I don't even know you anymore!"

I then proceeded to tell my good buddy why 1979's Off the Wall is actually the better Michael Jackson album. Not that Thriller isn't a classic; it very much is. In fact, when the 25th anniversary of Thriller comes out Tuesday -- complete with full remastering of the original, B-sides and full-length vids of all your faves -- I'll no doubt play Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 25 times then moonwalk to the bathroom.

But that doesn't make it better than Off the Wall. And this is what I told Steve Spears as he wept softly, nodded his head and bogarted the remaining hush puppies:

THREE REASONS WHY "OFF THE WALL" IS BETTER THAN "THRILLER":

1) Michael Jackson's two best songs are on Off the Wall. It's not even close. There are scant musical moments as life-affirming fun and danceably orgasmic as Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough. Jesus, is that good or what? Plus those echoey fills ("I'm melting now") are the stuff of sugar-smacked goodness. And then there's Rock With You -- are you hearing me? Rock With You, people!!! -- the most perfect 3:23 minutes in the pop music canon. "And when the groove is dead and gone / You know that loooooooove survives / So we can rooooooock forever!" Am I the only one with chills?

2) Off the Wall was the last Michael Jackson album you could listen to without feeling creepy, guilty, icky. He had yet to cross the Michael Jackson Line. He had yet to order the Elephant Man's bones or give Macaulay Culkin curious noogies. By the time he hit Thriller, MJ was on the bullet train to Never Land. Sign No. 1 that his judgment was impaired: The Girl Is Mine.

3) Simply: She's Out of My Life. (Down goes Spears! Down goes Spears!) Not only is it his best ballad, but before he did God knows what to his nose, his face, his soul, MJ could sing like nobody's business. That vocal is the very definition of powerhouse.  "To think for two years she was here / And I took her for granted / I was sooooo cavalier." There is no greater fuel for a Dark Night of the Soul than this song. And yes, finally...the crying at the end, that tear-choked "liiiiiife." Tito, get me a tissue.

If you so desire, you can amble over to Stuck in the '80s and see Steve's rebuttal. But c'mon, we're the party people, night and day, and living crazy, that's the only way. So I think we know who won this Blog Battle.

Comments

[Thaddeus Buttmunch MD]

the sad thing about OTW is that you just KNEW it was the end of the disco dancer craze (but not a bitter end.) Sybolically also the sexual revolution as herpes was here in 79 and we would soon know how bad AIDS was. "Streetlights" by The Crusaders came out about the same time and "I feel like a million bucks" or whatever also Chic (ruled) and Cher (sucked). Even Dolly Parton and the Stones got in on the Dance Craze.

Thriller was a historical album. It out sold the Beattles and was the clarion call of the MTV/VH1 generation with the cool title track video. Great Halloween song (maybe not as good as "Monster Mash" or "Purple People Eaters" but still...)

[TV on Wall]

Thanks a lot

[markadocious]

Off the wall goes down in my book as the greatest jazz funk record in history, at the time it came out there was nothing like it, nothing sounded like it, Mike,s vocals, Greg,s key,s, Louis Johnson,s bass and Q,s production was the perfect marriage.
Rolling Stone described it at the time as a masterpiece in modern day recording, it was the first of it,s kind, I still crank it in my ride to this day and you can see the people nodding their head,s as I stop at lights. Michael looked right to, he was cool, he was funky, strikingly good looking, there wasn,t a brother in my school who didn,t want to be him. Thriller came out at a time when MTV was just calling out for a black artist to come along and kick it,s racist butt into touch, it needed someone so talented they just could not ignore and Michael was that someone. I think the former D.J Paul Gambachini said it best when he said, this was the perfect time it just needed the right artist, the right album and Michael stepped to the plate, it was all about timing.

[Chase]

Thriller is miles better than Off the Wall (which I love, btw). Anyone who says you can't dance to Thriller needs to spin "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" again. Beats "Don't Stop..." easily. And "She's Out of My Life" is beautiful, but "Human Nature" is gorgeous, musically and lyrically... Plus, it doesn't have that ridiculous crying at the end! The lyrical content on Thriller is far superior. There's nothing like "Billie Jean" on Off the Wall. And sure, "The Girl is Mine" and "Thriller" are campy, cheesey, simply ridiculous. But have you forgotten "It's The Falling in Love"? "Rock With You" is phenomenal, but don't overlook "Baby Be Mine." Off the Wall is fantastic disco record. It's the one to play at a party. Thriller is a cross-genre blockbuster phenomenon that has permanently changed pop culture. It's the best of the two.

[Roxy]

My vote goes to Off The Wall! Thriller had some epic songs, but overall Off The Wall just gelled perfectly.

I also agree that you don't need big choreography to get down to the songs. You can just go out there and it'll make you move naturally.

[John Hays]

This is like asking me to pick between children! Oh wait, I guess I shouldn't mention children...

As much as I love Rock With You and Don't Stop, I have to say that Thriller has more hits so I have to side with Steve on this one!

[Ola Ray's cousin Vern Ray]

The answer is Thriller:
Eventually, it combined worlds of Miles Davis (who started regularly performing Human Nature), a Beatle, Vincent Price, Eddie Van Halen, Toto (Toto!) and Playboy Playmate Ola Ray.

Next topic: The best back-to-back releases. What can possibly top Off The Wall and Thriller?

[Jeff in Cuba]

Sean,

Sadly, my world view no longer allows me to render all of my qualitative analysis in the framework of "late night boogies".

But I do miss the days when it did.

[jane]

I've listened through my MJ playlist twice. While I did boogie happily to the "Off the Wall" contingent (especially "Working Day and Night"), my original analysis still stands. Plus, I realized that I just don't like "She's Out of My Life." Sawry.

It's still "Thriller" for the win with this groovanista.

[Marissa]

Oh! No joke. I Googled Tom. Uh, hmmm. Hetero fantasies just flew out the window.

Okay, back on topic.

[jane]

Not Safe For Work... which is quintessential Tom Ford, when you think about it.

"Billie Jean is not my lover..."

[Marissa]

I always wondered how to spell that. I'm all sweaty from my crazy dance moves around the living room. Heck, I even moved it into the dining room if that tells you anything.

NSFW?

[jane]

Digression... Miss Riss! I just saw a very hot picture of Tom Ford and immediately thought of you... it's very NSFW, though.

"Ma Ma Se, Ma Ma Sa, Ma Ma Coo Sa!"

[Marissa]

...and "Don't Stop 'til you get Enough" is on here. Boogie showdown!

[jane]

... and calls that dangling baby "Blanket." And used to be Elvis' son-in-law.

I'll stop there... Beat It's on and I'm totally in the groove right now.

Let the music play!

[Marissa]

I can't believe we're debating over the musical/cultural significance of a guy who sang a song about a rat and dangled a baby over a railing.

[scooterbucs]

Sean-
You've been hanging with Amy Winehouse too much.

[jane]

Great point, Erin, about the dancing AND talking. Both of those really appeal to me -- just call me a smart-a** booty shaker. Hell, just call me... but I digress.

I don't have either complete album on iTunes (yeah, I know...) but I'm listening to all the appropriate tunes I have with a critical ear and rampant rump-shaking-groovin'. For what it's worth, I have six cuts from "Thriller" but only four from "Off The Wall."

So we'll see. But I think my original assessment's gonna hold up...

[Erin]

I thought so Jeff..I'm not really thick-headed I just wanted to hear you say it...thanks for the clarification.

Marissa, now put on "Wanna be Starting Something" and tell me you're not toe-tapping to that.

Sean, I am not lying, I would put on ANY of these, PYT, Wanna be Starting Something, or Beat IT....People will dance AND talk about the music/impact it had.

[Marissa]

I just cranked up, "Workin' Day and Night." No theatrical choreography required to dance. No Thrilleresque V-formation dance troupe needed! Take that, Thriller!
It's all about the free form boogie.

[Sean Daly]

No argument about cultural impact here. I wrote an essay about "Thriller"'s meteoric kaboom last year:

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/13/Floridian/Monster_of_a_video.shtml

HOWEVER, all you people with all your fancy book-learnin' are neglecting to break things down to the human element, urges and needs and late-night boogies:

Jane, Brad, Jeff, Erin: If you're throwing a party, and somebody says put on some Michael Jackson, do you go with Off the Wall or Thriller? Don't gimme any smart-aleck Jackson 5 answers. Of the two, which one do you choose? If it's Thriller, so be it. But you're lying.

By the way, I loooove this debate. Love it. Spearsy is launching an MJ multimedia package today, so I hope more people get into it.

[Mike in Austin]

Off the Wall wins. The original. Everyone here has valid responses, etc. but the facts are facts, Off the Wall is just a bad ... MJ album.
And the Rock with you video, friggin awesome. Simple, groovy and to the point. Who doesn't own Off the Wall on vinyl?

[Jeff in Cuba]

Erin,

That was supposed to be a pro-Thriller piece.

[Erin]

Jeff in Cuba - that was extremely well written but you don't really say which one YOU like better...

[Jeff in Cuba]

Just to show that I can stay on topic, regardless of the audience, I'm going to post exactly what I just wrote over at SIT80s. Sorry SD.

"Off The Wall" was probably MJ's finest work as a musician, and certainly was the radical departure from his "Jackson 5" path that put him on the course for "Thriller". Music historians 100 years from now will more likely cite it as MJ's "landmark" recording.

Nonetheless, there's no denying the cross-cultural impact of "Thriller". It's tendrils reached into every aspect of popular culture: music, TV, movies, fashion, comedy and even politics (MJ didn't get to meet the President because of "OTW"). The music cognoscenti may have noticed MJ turning the corner with "OTW", but everyone on the planet noticed him jam on the accelerator as "Thriller" raced across the cultural landscape in a tire-squeeling cloud of blue smoke.

If "OTW" is a finely carved jade figurine, then Thriller is a 150-pound concrete lawn ornament. Sean can argue the intrinisic artistry of the former, but when you throw them both into the pop culture pool, there's no denying which one makes the bigger splash.

[Erin]

Sorry Sean, my vote goes to Thriller.

[Brad]

Sean -

Your points are cogent and well-presented. I agree that "She's Out Of My Life" is one of the greatest singles evar. And "The Girl Is Mine" is annoying dreck.

However.

You're wrong. Sorry. "Off The Wall" is a fantastic album. But putting it up against "Thriller?" It's Bambi vs. Godzilla all over again.

[Rock_Vbrg]

Good call on this one Sean. The radio was pretty much playing non-stop when I was growing up, and every song you mentioned I could immediately put a tune and a good vibe with it. Thriller, on the other hand, tune yes, vibe not so much. Thriller just didn't get it for me. I liked it, but Off the Wall just works so much better. Artistically, Thriller may be better but, speaking as one of the rhythmically challenged (my best dance move is the "White Boy Shuffle"), I just can't dance to it. When it comes down to cases, with most of the those songs you are required to have much finer motor control than the average geek possesses (out side of an arcade). When the inevitable thrusting starts someone is either going to jail or the hospital.

[Sean Daly]

Yes, yes, DG. We are often at odds, but today we rock as one!

[DG]

Kind of summing up what's already been said, but I agree that while Thriller stands as the more culturally substantial album, Off The Wall is better musically.

The funky sounds of "Get On The Floor," "Workin' Day And Night," and "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough" far exceed the funkiest work on Thriller ("Wanna Be Startin' Something").

Thriller was like the Supernatural of its day, in that it contained songs that would appeal to the widest (whitest?) possible audience.

[Marissa]

Thank you, Sean. I think my tears from being called traitor might actually begin to dry up, now. ::sniff::

[Marissa]

Thriller was awesome. However, "Off the Wall" has greater nostalgic value to me, personally. It may not have turned out as many hits as "Thriller," but it was a soundtrack to my high school days.
My friend's and I would get together and it was OUR album. I think I can sing along to more of the songs, too.
"working day and night" is a particular favorite.

[Sean Daly]

Don't fret, Marissa. I still love you. And unlike Spears' love, which is only redeemable at your nearest Econo Lodge, my love is good everywhere, baby.

[jane]

Good point, Miss Riss, about the videos contributing to the success of "Thriller" -- but for me, it's more about MJ and his people really capitalizing on the burgeoning visual medium that MTV was fostering. The songs and the accompanying videos are now inexorably intertwined in our collective unconsciousness -- thus contributing to the iconic status of the record.

As an aside, the fact that MJ and his label (which I think was CBS) took a stand against the fact that MTV had few to no African-American performers running on the air by threatening to pull all their artists' work from MTV unless the network wonks reversed their refusal to run "Billie Jean" was pretty damn groundbreaking.

Musically, "Thriller" is great. Culturally, it's phenomenal.

(But... I can't stop from grooving whenever I hear "Don't Stop 'Till You Get Enough." Dancibly orgasmic is right.)

[Marissa]

and I meant hands. See, I'm so distraught I can't even type or spell ... My green eyes can't see clearly through the puddles of tears resting on my lower lids.

[Marissa]

Now I'm going to cry! Thank God my mascara is waterproof, or you'd have that on your hand's, Mr. Spears.

[Spears]

Traitor.

[Marissa]

Man! This is a tough call. I loved "Off the Wall" because Michael still looked like the Michael who sang, "just look over your shoulder honey!" Which happened to be a record I cut out of the back of a Sugar Smaks cereal box.
Also, some guy crooned, "She's out of my life" to me when I was a freshman in high school. He kinda looked like MJ, but it wasn't creepy ..well, okay, it sort of was, but all the same, it's a great record.
Will you protect me from Steve if I agree with your dissertation on why "Off the Wall" is the superior album? I wonder if Thriller would have been so big if it hadn't been for the scads of videos on MTV.