Sunday catchup ...

Though RHP Andy Sonnanstine had a rough day, getting knocked around and knocked out in the fourth inning, the Rays got some good news in that RHP Jason Hammel felt fine the day after testing his previously tight right shoulder and will make his next start as scheduled on Tuesday in Detroit.

Otherwise, the most interesting development of the day was that manager Joe Maddon plans to give veteran Josh Paul three consecutive starts behind the plate - Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Maddon said he liked the matchups with Paul involved, but also said Dioner Navarro is playing better. Hmmm.

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Comments

[Gary Jordan]

Ownership/management/Maddon please stop insulting the fans by sending Fossum to the mound in the majors… His #s are astoundingly horrible and having the lefty for selected matchups has bought us zip. The new bullpen looks better with this glaring exception!!

[Warren]

Does anyone understand the logic of putting Wilson at SS & Harris at 2nd (where neither has played much) instead of flipping 'em? Seems to me the Wilson/Zobrist at SS & Harris at 2nd is just another example of Maddon's floundering. If Harris is tires, so spell him at Short - don't replace him

[Bill]

I agree, this team has no clue. Why move the best thing you had going in Harris? That makes no sense at all.

[Bob R.]

Once again, the move makes perfect sense, and in fact the timing is exactly right also. The reason is simple; while Harris has hit well, he is a poor shortstop. He has little range, and it is entirely possible that at least part of the reason many pitchers, particularly Camp, have been so bad is that too many balls get through the infield. While Wigginton was the super utility man, only Wilson could spell Harris at shortstop, and Maddon did not want Brendan switching back and forth. Now, with Zobrist and Wilson available, he can move Harris permanently (for the year) to second and have better shortstops at the position.

[DJ]

Warren and Bill, knowing a little history on the players would help. Zobrist and Wilson are shortstops. Wilson has played other positions, but he's played far more shortstop than anything else. Harris has only played a significant amount of time at shortstop this year. Even in the minors, he wasn't a shortstop. From 2001 to 2006, he only played 48 games at shortstop. That's an average of 8 games a year at the position. It is not and has never been his best position. He has played way more games at second and third for a reason. Anyone who knew who he was before 2007 knows this. The only reason he has played so much shortstop for the Rays this year is because it was the only way to get his bat in the lineup on a regular basis... Since the Rays traded Wigginton, Wilson or Zobrist have to start now (at least while Baldelli is still hurt). Being that this is the case, the Rays may as well put them at the positions they play best. That would be shortstop for Wilson/Zobrist, and second for Harris... Harris is a below average major league shortstop. In every fielding statistic, Harris is either below average or well below average compared to the other regular shortstops in the majors. This is understandable being that he almost never played there before 2007.

[Ray]

Why am I getting the bad feeling Sonny is going to be another Fossum?

I'm hoping I'm wrong because I like his approach, but it hasn't lead to wins and his ERA is getting ridiculous.

[Bill]

Brendan harris Fielding % .968
Josh Wilsons Fielding % .955
Ben Zobrist Fielding % .929

Nuf Said

[Bob R.]

It is incredible that on a respectable site a poster uses fielding percentage-and in 2 cases from a tiny data base-to clinch an argument about fielding ability. And uses fielding % alone as well.

[Bill]

Sorry. I guess I won't use ERA when talking about pitchers either......I'll just take your word for everything....no need to use 'stats'.....how could I? Instead, I'll just trust you..........

What a moron u are to believe that in determining how good a fielder is that fielding % shouldn't be used. Should it be the only factor? Of course not.....but it is a legit sample.

[Bob R.]

Bill, I don't think calling me a moron serves much purpose. In any case, if you do think my response is foolish, please interpret it properly. While I do think using fielding % is close to useless, my objection in this case is that having stated questionable data to start, you used it as a clinching argument (as you appended "nuff said" as if that was enough to make the point), and that the data was from a very small sample set. And of course, I also object to using fielding % alone, as you do properly note.

I do not know the source of your data. Mine is BB-Reference. According to that source, Zobrist's fielding % in TB this year is .929 based on 22 game appearances. That is hardly sufficient to draw any conclusions, let alone those that justify a claim such as "nuff said". Incidentally, last year, in 52 games, the % was .963, still insufficient to demonstrate anything.

Wilson's % this year is based on just 8 appearances in TB and it is .1000. In 7 appearances in Washington it was .800. Neither stat means much, just as Harris's 87 games at .968 this year or .923 in 5 games in 2006 in Washington are not meaningful.

Incidentally, ERA is probably far too simplistic as a piece of data also, although slightly better in judging pitchers' effectiveness than fielding % is for fielders. In any case, taking my word for anything is hardly the issue; of course nobody should simply accept assertions without evidence. I am simply pointing out that Maddon's decision makes sense if his analysis of the relative defensive prowess of his players is accurate, and that representing fewer than 30 games of data on fielding % to make any argument is invalid.

[Bill]

Hey Bob, you reference a whole lot of fielding %'s in an arguement against using fielding %'s............doesn't make much sense.

[DJ]

Hey Bill, obviously Bob wouldn't make sense to you. You agreed with a guy who thinks Wilson is a 2b and Harris is a SS.

[Bill]

I never said anything about Wilson, I just said Harris should stay at short. Wilson belongs at AA and Zobrist at single A

[DJ]

Yea Bill, more proof you can't read.

[Bill]

Sorry to have the correct opinion. It must really frustrate you to have to argue the benefits of Ben Zobrist and Josh Wilson playing ShortStop when neither has proven anything at the major league level while Harris has put together a solid 1/2 season. Zobrist got his shot, twice, and failed......yet you want to give him more shots while Harris has had 1 shot and succeeded. You are a moron. Thank goodness you are an internet wannabee and not the GM.

[DJ]

Yea Bill, and you fail to realize that the Rays have to start either Zobrist or Wilson with their current roster. Harris is still in the starting lineup (and at his best defensive position). You also fail to realize that if Wilson or Zobrist have to start, it might as well be at their best position, which is shortstop. It's not hard to understand that it's best to put all your starters at their best positions. Yet somehow you can't grasp that elementary piece of information... Now, if you want to argue whether Zobrist or Wilson should be starting at all, that's another point. I think the Rays should have called up Longoria when they traded Wigginton, moved Iwamura to second, and left Harris at short (even though he isn't a very good defensive shortstop). But that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about why the Rays are playing Harris at second and Zobrist/Wilson at short... If you were GM you probably would have made Maddon start Wigginton at shortstop this year because you have no clue about defense, and Harris would have never been signed in the first place because you had no idea who he was before the Rays signed him. You were probably one the flock of idiots who were calling Maddon stupid for keeping Harris on the roster and sending Cantu to AAA at the beginning of the year.

[DJ]

Harris is better at 2b than he is at SS. That is a fact that everyone in baseball knows. Wilson and Zobrist are better at SS than they are at 2b. That is also a fact. What kind of moron would then start Harris at SS and Wilson/Zobrist at 2b? Basic logic would tell you that's idiotic.

[Bill]

I think one of you hit the nail on the head......NEITHER WILSON OR ZOBRIST should be starting on this team. It's not like their gloves are so overwhelming to make up for their lack of hitting. I just think it comes down to who you think will be starting at SS next year..Wilson, Zobrist, or Harris. I think it will be Harris and if it is going to be Harris then you might as well leave him there to gain more and more valuable experience at the position. I do not feel the Rays will give Zobrist another opening day shot at Shortstop........nor do I think they think Wilson is the answer either. That is my logic.

[DJ]

Bill, I agree with you on that. If they plan on Harris being their SS next year, they should let him get more experience at SS. And I think Harris will probably be their starting SS on opening day... But I don't think they've given up on Zobrist yet, and I think it's understandable that they haven't. He hit .324 in 279 games in the minors before they called him up last year. And in the 60 games he played in AAA this year he hit .273, 7 HR, 8 SB, and .399 OBP. He has been a pretty good minor league hitter... The ideal situation for the Rays would be if Zobrist could bring his offense with him to the majors. I'm not sold that he can, but a half season of ABs in the majors isn't alot to be giving up on him... Hopefully, they are just giving him one last shot before Longoria and Brignac are ready. Brignac will probably be the Rays shortstop by at least 2009, so Harris' long-term future in Tampa or elsewhere is probably going to be at 2nd anyway. Might as well give Zobrist a longer look to know for sure that he's a dud in the majors... I would prefer if they gave Longoria a look to see if he's going to be their 3b next year, but if they aren't going to do that, I don't mind them making sure Zobrist is a dud while the season is already in the tank.

[Bill]

See, I knew we were more on the same page than we all thought..........I am just not sold on Zobrist. I'm not worrying about Brignac and 2009......so, I would be thinking about next season's short stop. I just don't think they are giving anyone enough of a chance.....if it's Zobrist, then put him out there every game and don't split time with Wilson...or vice versa. I think Longoria needs a little time at AAA but I do see him being the 3rd baseman of the future....great college player so he'll be ready sooner than later.....that puts Aki at 2nd who will do fine there.....so the only infield question in SS. I just don't think they have a plan. That said, IF Rocco were ever healthy.....does he just become a DH? I think his Centerfield days are over.....no reason to put him in a running position with bad wheels.....so, Rocco looks like a corner outfielder or first baseman.......I like the idea of him being a DH and working in at first vs. Lefties and he would be a great back-up in case Pena goes back to the old Pena.............

So, offensively, this team is very very close........if we can just get some starters/bullpen.....Sonnanstine is going to be in the Pen in the near future and is probably a good fit there.....good change of pace pitcher if you have a hard throwing starter and he doesn't walk anyone......and he's much better the first time through the order anyway.